RWBY - Immaterial Non-Physical Interaction Review

[Jinx666]

As per site rules, outside statements cannot contradict the source material.

• Primary Source
  • V3 - Mercury physically interacts with Ruby in her semblance state
  • V4 - Ruby kills a Geist with her rifle, shooting it in the mask
  • V7 - Clover physically grapples a Geist mask with his fishing line and Harriet one-punches the Geist mask.
  • V8 - According to Penny, Ruby's Semblance is the following:
    • "Ruby is capable of traveling at an extreme velocity from one point to another by breaking herself down to her molecular components, thus negating her mass and then reassembling them at the destination, theoretically making it possible for her to transport all of us in the same way, as mass no longer matters."
    • Classifies as Elemental Intangibility - The ability to become intangible by transforming into a substance, such as wind, fire, or water, making it so that most attacks merely disperse them instead of truly damaging them, allowing them to regenerate. However, this would still leave the user vulnerable to many forms of attack, such as sufficiently powerful energy or elemental attacks.

Elemental Intangbility isnt non-physical though. It still relies on a physical substance that can be interacted with, like water and fire.
Theres also the inconsistency of Ruby's semblance as a whole. 'Negating Mass' is clearly not literal as theres still a force to Ruby's attacks, and a force that can kick her out of this form (which still doesnt count for NPI as molecules are still physical)

 

[Jinx666]

The reason why they can even hurt that kind of grim is because of NPI lol.

Assumption made. Its never been physically stated in the show that this is a roadblock, this is just what is being assumed because it sounds better and more powerful to RWBY than 'Maybe the geist being intangible doesnt mean this specific way'.

 

[Firestorm808]

Elemental Intangbility isnt non-physical though. It still relies on a physical substance that can be interacted with, like water and fire.
Theres also the inconsistency of Ruby's semblance as a whole. 'Negating Mass' is clearly not literal as theres still a force to Ruby's attacks, and a force that can kick her out of this form (which still doesnt count for NPI as molecules are still physical)

Turning into gas isn't truly non-physical. Her molecules are still there in a gaseous state. A fan can interact with a gas.

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

Assumption made. Its never been physically stated in the show that this is a roadblock, this is just what is being assumed because it sounds better and more powerful to RWBY than 'Maybe the geist being intangible doesnt mean this specific way'.

That is the usual wiki assumption lol.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Essentially:

One source, secondary to the show, says Geist are intangible, with no details other than that. Literally just “they are intangible” with no explanation as to how.

Its not secondary to the show, and the directors commentary confirmed its because the Geists are ghosts.

Everyone in the entire verse beats the shit out of Geist as if they are not intangible.

Thus there are two options. Either the entire cast has NPI or the Geist can be selectively intangible.

Neither of these are proven, shown or implied in the show or extra material, so it is pure speculation either way.

It would be pure speculation if there werent other Grimm in the series that are also stated and shown to be intangible and incorporeal that the cast can also interact with

 

[WeeklyBattles]

^^^^

Please just prove all of this stuff Weekly. I dont need you spamming the same 'scans' im aware about.

I think the multiple times the Geist's 'intangbility' has been actually contradicted in the show overtrumps you being able to completely understand how its intangibility works from an adjective (with no actual viewings from the show) in a guidebook (that takes from only the show), instead of just trying to give free hax to your fave verse. The only time the Geist has shown intangibility in any sense from the acc main source canon, is exclusive to its main power of possessing rocks and stuff. Not even the book, or the wiki (that has more info than you do) supports you with this.

The Chill argument literally goes against this by saying that only specialized tools/huntsmen can interact at any capacity with Chills ('Specialized huntsmen' from any example most likely being linked to their unique semblances much like Shion.), and ergo its not a generalised power. If you STILL want to try and bring up the Chill like thats a valid argument
The more evidence of contradiction (like antifeats), the more reliable? Is there genuinely any other example that solidifies the Geist being fully intangible all the time (Despite it trying to physically attack someone)

I already have, multiple times, you continue to ignore it. Im not going to entertain your insane ramblings just for you ton constantly ignore everything that doesnt fit your viewpoint

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Also speaking of Mercury kicking Ruby, she can not go through objects. She must break apart AROUND objects in that state, as she goes over things and not through them. So Mercury kicking her just further shows that she can’t phase through things while she’s like that.

I don’t believe she’s ever phased through something in her semblance form either. Might be misremembering.

It would be pure speculation if there werent other Grimm in the series that are also stated and shown to be intangible and incorporeal that the cast can also interact with

Chill are different from Geists and the cast cannot deal with Chill’s except for a specific person who has a semblance that directly helps fight the Chill. What other Grimm are you referring to?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

It is absolutely unclear for their intangibility. One source saying “yeah, they’re intangible” and then literally zero showings of them being intangible EVER is very suspicious.

No? Theyre shown to be intangible in every fight theyve ever been in, its how they enter matter in order to possess it

Using “but AURA THO” is not a catch-all solution for contradictions. The intangibility should be demonstrated to operate on attacks/in the way Weekly is implying, not stated then never shown what capacity it has.

Intangibility varies from verse to verse.

Correct, and there is also elemental intangibility in RWBY which can be interacted with by the cast, as well as phasing intangibility which cannot

What kind of intangibility do the Geists have should be established first.

Immaterial as confirmed by the writers/director's commentary, as well as supplemented by stuff like the Chill being stated and shown to be intangible and incorporeal yet huntsmen can interact with them.

 

[Jinx666]

Is the Geist Mask physical and the only way to physically harm/touch it? Has the black ghostly body been interacted with before? From what I have seen, the mask does not pass through objects.

• Are geist limbs able to physically interact with objects or people by choice?

• Is it explicit that dust gives bullets NPI properties?
  • Would a non-dust bullet hit a Geist anywhere on its body, even its mask?
• Is there a visual cue that a weapon is channeling aura.

Geist mask is used to pull it out of possessed material.

Black ghost body has been directly hit before by Harriet. Its body is regarded as weak and 'mostly harmless', which is why it needs to possess things in the first place

The Geist actively tried to attack Blake with its own limbs, so it can physically interact with people, but theres no evidence this is a one-way street as they're still actual grimm and not like, from another plane of existence

They're saying its aura, even though the bullet is separated from the body. I dont remember but i think weapons/bullets are imbued with the person's aura just generally.

Characters like Qrow and Clover have attempted to hit the Geist's body with bullets/rods though havent been able to hit it. As professional huntsmen who know about Geists though, this shows that its not a wasted effort

Theres again, nothing saying this is the direct reason they can interact with a Geist if it was fully intangible to the regular person.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Also speaking of Mercury kicking Ruby, she can not go through objects. She must break apart AROUND objects in that state, as she goes over things and not through them. So Mercury kicking her just further shows that she can’t phase through things while she’s like that.

I don’t believe she’s ever phased through something in her semblance form either. Might be misremembering.

Ruby's semblance is ELEMENTAL intangibility, not immaterial or phasing intangibility

Chill are different from Geists and the cast cannot deal with Chill’s except for a specific person who has a semblance that directly helps fight the Chill. What other Grimm are you referring to?

No? All hunsteman are confirmed to be able to interact with and kill Chills. Youre thinking of the Nightmare

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Also, btw, Jinx is literally the onl person making the argument that Aura is the reason why they can interact with intangible stuff, no one else but her has brought that up

 

[Jinx666]

No? Theyre shown to be intangible in every fight theyve ever been in, its how they enter matter in order to possess it

They're only intangible exclusively for possessing material

Where have they been intangible to avoid physical attacks, or used it in any other capacity like going through walls.

Correct, and there is also elemental intangibility in RWBY which can be interacted with by the cast, as well as phasing intangibility which cannot

Elemental Intangibility isnt non-physical

Immaterial as confirmed by the writers/director's commentary, as well as supplemented by stuff like the Chill being stated and shown to be intangible and incorporeal yet huntsmen can interact with them.

You're leaving out 'Specialized'. That likely means unique and specific semblances (Like Shion, a specialized huntsment dealing with Nightmares)

Its not a general power

 

[Firestorm808]

Black ghost body has been directly hit before by Harriet. Its body is regarded as weak and 'mostly harmless', which is why it needs to possess things in the first place

According to the provided clip, Harriet hit the geist at the base of the mask.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

I think its exclusive only to the things they possess as shown (Since thats the only time in show they've ever phased and been intangible. 'Intangible' could clearly be describing that)

Weekly is saying immaterial via Its like a ghost, it can avoid all physical attacks (Despite never shown to withstand a physical attack) and that it operates on a soul level (Grimms as in their profile canonically lack souls).

Now youre just lying. Never once did i sa that they operate on a soul level

You dont even need to operate on a soul level to be immaterial, youre just making shit up now

 

[Jinx666]

Also, btw, Jinx is literally the onl person making the argument that Aura is the reason why they can interact with intangible stuff, no one else but her has brought that up

Please stop lying

This has been your whole basis on why you scale it to every RWBY character. This can be proven within this very thread
You can literally see it on most of the RWBY profiles that Aura Users can interact with NPI

 

[WeeklyBattles]

They're only intangible exclusively for possessing material

Where have they been intangible to avoid physical attacks, or used it in any other capacity like going through walls.

Elemental Intangibility isnt non-physical

You're leaving out 'Specialized'. That likely means unique and specific semblances (Like Shion, a specialized huntsment dealing with Nightmares)

Its not a general power

Jinx please stay out of this, the adults are talking now

 

[Jinx666]

Now youre just lying. Never once did i sa that they operate on a soul level

From the definition of Immaterial you gave, it stated stuff like the Soul.

You dont even need to operate on a soul level to be immaterial, youre just making shit up now

What do you need to be immaterial then? Cause from your description, it says they can 'avoid most attacks' and 'arent immune to soul manipulation'. you got all of this from one word

 

[Jinx666]

Jinx please stay out of this, the adults are talking now

This is my thread and proposal. You arent a staff member anymore you cant talk down to me

 

[Firestorm808]

Jinx please stay out of this, the adults are talking now

This is not necessary. I am more than capable of discussing this with both parties.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

No? Theyre shown to be intangible in every fight theyve ever been in, its how they enter matter in order to possess it

Correct, and there is also elemental intangibility in RWBY which can be interacted with by the cast, as well as phasing intangibility which cannot

Immaterial as confirmed by the writers/director's commentary, as well as supplemented by stuff like the Chill being stated and shown to be intangible and incorporeal yet huntsmen can interact with them.

I know they phase through objects, that is why I’m claiming they are selective.

Having one type of intangibility is irrelevant to claiming a separate type.

“Can interact with them” with special tools and such. Can you give me something more than that?

Jinx please stay out of this, the adults are talking now

This is their thread. They can talk whenever they want.

Also both of you need to stop being rude.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

This is not necessary. I am more than capable of discussing this with both parties.

Discord, please

 

[Jinx666]

I already have, multiple times, you continue to ignore it. Im not going to entertain your insane ramblings just for you ton constantly ignore everything that doesnt fit your viewpoint

No, i mean prove everything in that specific lists.
These are the assumptions you've made

 

[WeeklyBattles]

No, i mean prove everything in that specific lists.
These are the assumptions you've made

The only one making assumptions is you

 

[Jinx666]

The only one making assumptions is you

• The Geist's intangibility is 'immaterial' type? Just from being called 'intangible' and how thats different from the Semblance (Imagine an Non-physical intangible creature not being able to go through walls. An immaterial type intangibility being immune to 'most attacks' when the Geist has literally never shown to go through an attack at all whatsoever)
• The Geist's intangibility would only work in one way that they can attack humans, but they cant attack back naturally
• Why the showings of the Geist being physically hit DONT contradict your guidebook-adjective perception of its intangibility, and instead exclusively vouch for the whole cast having NPI.
• Aura being the reason they can hurt Geists (Ergo why this should scale to everyone and their mother in RWBY)
• The Geist's intangibility being a consistent fact.

Please, prove all of these.

 

[Firestorm808]

No, i mean prove everything in that specific lists.
These are the assumptions you've made

Please refrain from the back-and-forth between you two.

Can both parties please answer the questions I listed in my earlier post?

 

[Kingofwolves999]

No? All hunsteman are confirmed to be able to interact with and kill Chills. Youre thinking of the Nightmare

Well this is a blatant lie unless I missed something. Only Huntsmen with “special tools” can get rid of them, as stated numerous times throughout the thread. When is it ever said every Huntsmen can just casually kill them?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

I know they phase through objects, that is why I’m claiming they are selective.

Its not selective, the writers confirmed that he Geist is a ghost and its never shown the ability to become tangible ever despite being in multiple fights.

Having one type of intangibility is irrelevant to claiming a separate type.

Ye, its just proof that they have multiple forms of NPI

“Can interact with them” with special tools and such. Can you give me something more than that?

Correction, REMOVE with special tools, not interact. Chills possess humans and kill them by existing the body, The specialized huntsmen and tools remove the chills without killing the host. Nothing about them being the only ones who can kill a Chill

Also both of you need to stop being rude.

Jinx has been rude this entire thread, frankly im sick of it

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Please refrain from the back-and-forth between you two.

Can both parties please answer the questions I listed in my earlier post?

^^^^^^

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Please refrain from the back-and-forth between you two.

Can both parties please answer the questions I listed in my earlier post?

Im trying to, jinx just keeps spamming shit that i need to respond to so she stops poisoning yall's opinions with her lies

 

[Firestorm808]

All that matters is that this back-and-forth bickering stops now.

I want to keep this as objective and straight forward as possible. No editorialization, please.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Correction, REMOVE with special tools, not interact. Chills possess humans and kill them by existing the body, The specialized huntsmen and tools remove the chills without killing the host. Nothing about them being the only ones who can kill a Chill

Ah, I misunderstood what I was reading then, my apologies.

But then where is it said about actually killing the chill? I don’t believe I’ve encountered anything about that.

 

[Jinx666]

According to the provided clip, Harriet hit the geist at the base of the mask.

Looking back at it is does look that way yeah.

The Grimm's white bone-like parts of their body are generally solid. I don't recall the mask ever being properly stated as a weakpoint, but its clearly targeted and used every time a character wants to kill it

This just proves RWBY woudnt have NPI since they would be exploiting a weak point. Heck this can make the Geist actually intangible, but still be solid that RWBY arent hitting it normally and ergo doesnt give them NPI

 

[Firestorm808]

As shown from my post, I skipped over editorials and only looked at the actual statements and demonstrations provided by the series.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Ah, I misunderstood what I was reading then, my apologies.

But then where is it said about actually killing the chill? I don’t believe I’ve encountered anything about that.

Its all good, would have worded it better initially but im kinda dealing with chaos atm lol

 

[Jinx666]

Ah, I misunderstood what I was reading then, my apologies.

But then where is it said about actually killing the chill? I don’t believe I’ve encountered anything about that.

Either way the Chill cant be interacted with as a confirmed incorporeal being unless its through Specialized tools or hunstmen (Which usually refers to their semblance like the character Shion)

This is all put in a reddit post and there have been no examples of Chill in the main anime, or examples of these specialized tools in general. It shouldnt be a basis to scale every Aura user to NPI like it was, and idk why its still being brought up when it goes exactly against Weeklys NPI argument

 

[Damage3245]

Discord, please

Please do not attempt to take the discussion off of the forum like this.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Alright.

So.

Harriet punched the mask. Ruby hit the mask. The fishing rod grabbed the mask. Their mask is visible when they are possessing something, and as such is a clear weakness.

No NPI, the mask is just their weakness.

And no one has actually killed or fought a Chill beyond “special tools to get it out/save someone.”

So it’s looking like only Elemental Non-Physical Interaction, with a no to any other kind.

 

[Damage3245]

I would also like to request that the bickering stop as per Firestorm's post above.

Accusations of lying on either side, calling another user a "child".... What is the point of this? Throwing insults at each other is not productive for the thread.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Please do not attempt to take the discussion off of the forum like this.

Shrug

Just figured it'd be less chaotic than having to sift through fifty spammed posts to reply to a single comment

 

[WeeklyBattles]

I would also like to request that the bickering stop as per Firestorm's post above.

Accusations of lying on either side, calling another user a "child".... What is the point of this? Throwing insults at each other is not productive for the thread.

Damage, Jinx has been doing that literally the entire thread