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At the moment my current prefernece is to give NPI to the characters who have demonstrated it and Possibly NPI to everyone else.
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RWBY - Immaterial Non-Physical Interaction Review
- Thread starter Jinx666
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This is my personal take as well
Spinoirr
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I was the one who suggested this so I definitely agree
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Bro youre literally on the wrong side of the argument here lmao?
Im literally the only one here (speaking at least) considering the Geists intangibility isnt just passive?
Idk how many times ive refered to the Intangibility page on this very wiki to describe why we shouldnt be assuming its one form of intangibility (When the show has went directly against it by seeing Harriet punch it)
Literally my original post.
Heres this too
1 2 3
Like genuinely bro how can you be sitting here telling me the Exact opposite of my argument?
Whats separating the Geist's intangibility and the Intangibility semblance when theyre both just described as 'Intangible'?
Whats happening is you would like to assume how the intangibility works for your own favour, but quite frankly NPI is nowhere near concrete
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If it genuinely stops this being a big thing, since clearly tryna talk to RWBY fans on this site is taxing, then i'd rather you all label it as 'Possible NPI'.
We still literally dont know what 'intangibility' this geist is, since its actually been hit. Instead of using this as proof, people are just saying 'Oh well instead lets give them a completely separate power'. Theres a literal power that exists to be intangible, described exactly the way you all want to think as such. But no, 'thats different'. Yall were convinced by The Chill to give everything NPI, before the Geist (which if you thought it was non-physical originally, it woulda been on the page far sooner) and its lowkey crazy how much you wanna hold onto this.
The show couldnt prove the intangibility for you, you're clinging to a single adjective in a guidebook and using it to scale to the entire series based on Aura (Which is literally something made up). The exact same adjective used to describe a semblance but now you're claiming its different somehow?
We still literally dont know what 'intangibility' this geist is, since its actually been hit. Instead of using this as proof, people are just saying 'Oh well instead lets give them a completely separate power'. Theres a literal power that exists to be intangible, described exactly the way you all want to think as such. But no, 'thats different'. Yall were convinced by The Chill to give everything NPI, before the Geist (which if you thought it was non-physical originally, it woulda been on the page far sooner) and its lowkey crazy how much you wanna hold onto this.
The show couldnt prove the intangibility for you, you're clinging to a single adjective in a guidebook and using it to scale to the entire series based on Aura (Which is literally something made up). The exact same adjective used to describe a semblance but now you're claiming its different somehow?
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So from what I'm seeing here one of your arguments is that NPI doesn't exist because someone hit a geist? sigh and you say I'm on the wrong side of the argument.
And what's seperating them is one has been hit and the other hasn't, either they're different kinds or its layered Intangibility. Yes, that exists.
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Yes, exactly.
How do you hit something that goes against it being 100% intangible, and instead assume that it WAS intangible and they could hit it, making up its cause of Aura. Unless you were trying to overplay RWBY here.
What other proof is there besides 1 adjective shows the Geist is intangible like you say they are beyond that to warrant the fact RWBY characters have NPI
I sure wonder why you're all wanting to assume RWBY characters have NPI instead of assuming that maybe the Geist isnt completely always intangible. If the geist not being able to be hit in base form was a roadblock, then it would have been stated in the show on how to actually get rid of it. The Geist hides in rock and stuff because its body is vulnerable and weak. What is the point of an 'Intangible Grimm' for the story if everyone can hit it anyway?
So RWBY has NPI...except when it doesnt?
If theres a layer of intangibility (a.k.a an exception) it would be surely noted on. Its not though, so you're assuming the one thats gives you the better chance at arguing. Even though theres no greater showings either of this Intangibility semblance going through anything beyond physical matter either?
The guidebook probably wasnt written with this rando intangibility semblance in mind lol. Theres no reason to connect them as if theres 'layers'. Please just admit you want the better option for RWBY as a verse
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I wonder why you're making more assumptions to assume it can go tangible.
Because some verses, like Warcraft off the top or my head, just has practically everyone have NPI.
In case you've forgotten RWBY pages are not the best. Yes, it should be noted that the intangibility of the semblance is layered.
Bro RWBY is among the like, 4 verses I genuinely dislike, the others being Naruto, Dragon Ball, and Bleach, anything else I shit on is for memes or I just don't like the fanbase(Maou Gakuin, anyone?)
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Like genuinely this is just what its come down to.
You all think the guidebook saying Geists are 'intangible' means theyre completely always intangible, so when a character physically hits them, that means they have NPI.
However it can just as validly be taken as the Geists GOT hit, and therefore their intangibility is not always active.
We cant prove properly which way is correct. (However if we do look at the Geists actual sources, we would see it hasnt ever went through something it didnt want to possess, showing it could be exclusively linked to that and ergo not making it physical at all.)
So instead of logically not including it since we don't know, and waiting for RWBY to maybe give more evidence, it just seems like people are wanting to give RWBY the best it can get. But its not a concrete argument. All you've got is one adjective (And no, the Chill, The Nightmare, and Ruby's semblance dont apply here either. Idk how many times i gotta explain this)
You all think the guidebook saying Geists are 'intangible' means theyre completely always intangible, so when a character physically hits them, that means they have NPI.
However it can just as validly be taken as the Geists GOT hit, and therefore their intangibility is not always active.
We cant prove properly which way is correct. (However if we do look at the Geists actual sources, we would see it hasnt ever went through something it didnt want to possess, showing it could be exclusively linked to that and ergo not making it physical at all.)
So instead of logically not including it since we don't know, and waiting for RWBY to maybe give more evidence, it just seems like people are wanting to give RWBY the best it can get. But its not a concrete argument. All you've got is one adjective (And no, the Chill, The Nightmare, and Ruby's semblance dont apply here either. Idk how many times i gotta explain this)
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Baseline assumption that literally every verse ever takes is that if something is stated to be intangible it is intangible until proven otherwise, interacting with it=NPI, that's why its called Non-Physical Interaction.
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This is lowkey like having a person dodge natural lightning and instead of just saying they're fast enough to do so, you assume that the lightning must be slow somehow
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If you're able to read the bold, or stop trying to imitate Weekly, you would know that i'm making no push on thats the exact way its intangibility work. I dont care too much how it works, but its not an excuse to give your fave verse nonsensical buffs across the board.
I 'assume' it can go tangible because IT GETS HIT, PHYSICALLY. Multiple times.
If you're begging for scans, then look at the ones i actually provice.
This is not a valid warrant at all for giving RWBY this power. 'B-But Warcraft has it!!!!!!', thats a completely separate Verse.
bro actually admitting they're tryna buff RWBY as much as they can
Proof its layered? Cause it sounds like you just want it to be layered so your argument doesnt fall flat. Botht he geist and this semblance are described as 'Intangible', so why are they different types of Intangibility
Im sure it is bro. Thats why you're here advocating for it to get a power that just genuinely is not a concrete example of NPI. You all had to find another argument after you were all satisifed with the Chill, its just blatantly obvious here people wanna overbloat Aura's general powers. Like it being immune to Matter manipulation coming to mind.
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Exact opposite.
Cause dodging lightning would be something we actually see and cant refute. And much like we treat on this wiki, the lightning NEEDS to be proven its natural, as there is another variant (magic lightning). Much like we see a Geist get one shot by a physical punch, despite it being 'intangible'
Meanwhile you're basing your entire argument off of one adjective and assuming in a guidebook (on a series with awful continuity when it comes to powers), that the Geist is 'intangible', and therefore its always intangible. Its not a real ghost bro, and theres more to say it can become tangible (the fact it got hit)
Its been you having to make up stuff like 'Aura is the reason for NPI', because of course thats better for RWBY than just realising this is a flimsy argument and shouldn't be a power based for EVERY character on your backwards logic. If it isn't concrete (1 adjective isnt concrete, and you still cant respond to any of the points about Ruby surprise surprise), then have some restraint and stop making up powers for Russel Thrush
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No, because theres multiple examples of intangible in fiction that doesnt apply to a being just being 100% intangible. Usually if someone was going to be intangible in a verse, it'd actually be Shown how the intangibility works. The Geist has not went through anything it didnt also possess.
And it has been proven otherwise. The geist got punched. shot. fished out of its possessed object.
Theres a semblance that literally makes you intangible, described the exact way the Geist is (saying its intangible), that RWBY characters cant hit.
But as expected, you're just making more unsupported assumptions to try and keep this thing alive. 'Layered Intangibility', like thats something that we can make up about a verse that isnt at all acknowledged in the main series, but instead put together by two secondary-canon-like sources that probably didnt think about one another when both were written. Its reaching.
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Then what is a solid case for NPI? Cause from what you're saying Non-Physical Interaction just doesn't exist lmfao
It's pretty much the exact case. Shit that should be intangible can get punched out, and you don't want to try and tango with that verse,
As a wise man once Said: "Wank, but make it believable wank" aka high-ends within reason are fine.
Here's proof: Geists can be hit, the individual with that semblance can't. One layer right there.
Bro I'm actually here cause I'm bored and want to just argue something I see is true to someone who doesn't. Just cause I don't like RWBY don't mean I'm magically physically unable to click on a thread, read through it, go "Oh this sounds wrong" and debate it. I'm actually more repelled by supporters I don't like then a verse I don't like.
I mean yeah guidebook statements are funny like that and provide good opportunities for reasonable high-ends. Your issue seems to be RWBY has shit you don't like, and that's fine, I'll stay here and argue about it.
Alternatively we can just end this charade that we both call a debate and just call for a vote count
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A RWBY character actually interacting with something incorporeal, or an actual ghost. And then Aura actually being the stated reason for this interaction if you wantt o scale it to EVERYONE in the verse. Its not a big ask.
Idc about Warcraft stop bringing it up. Im sure it has real ghosts and stuff people can actually hit unlike RWBY
Its wank, you're literally admitting it yourself lol.
Id rather like to believe the wiki wants accurate, and concretely shown abilities. But nah, just whatever you like.
Okay now prove how the Geists being hit, despite being 'intangible' doesnt contradict the fact its possible for a Geist to get hit.
Uh huh sure.
You've literally just admitted you're wanking it bro and using it cause its a high-end (a.k.a a reach).
I dont ever expect people who wank a verse to come out with it, but you've literally done so
Its not reasonable though, as it can be debated against and isn't concrete when the show goes against whats shown.
I'm experienced enough in these type of things to know what that means lol.
You all want to vote on the RWBY profiles having Possible NPI? Do it.
theres no reason Harriet, Ruby or Clover would be the only 3 people in the verse to have this ability, but at the same time you cant ever say how the Geists' intangibility properly works.
Somehow you can derive the difference from a semblance that also makes you intangible (And argue the biggest reaches ever) when they've both been described exactly the same, yet theyre different?
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Like im sorry, when one of you is literally ADMITTING that they're trying to wank RWBY to high-end for the sake of this argument, then I got the answer. Theres literally no fairly convincing most of you. Even Weekly cant seem to keep to one argument unless it fits their case (a.k.a Mercury and Ruby interaction, Semblances not being reliant on having aura up).
What exactly do you want to vote for? Damage's proposal? Cause Possible is the only way this should ever be fit on all the RWBY pages if you need to admittedly reach to get RWBY this power. Again, theres 0 reason why to make 3 characters have NPI and the rest only possible
What exactly do you want to vote for? Damage's proposal? Cause Possible is the only way this should ever be fit on all the RWBY pages if you need to admittedly reach to get RWBY this power. Again, theres 0 reason why to make 3 characters have NPI and the rest only possible
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Jinx if you have an issue with the concept of 'layered intangibility' please go look at JJBA, literally every character has it.
As for the rest, the only reacing being done is by you trying to desperately think of what if scenarios that could prove you right when those scenarios are contradicted by the show and guidebook. You claim that the proof for them having NPI comes from secondary sources, yet you're trying to use a non-canon parody show to prove your point. You're arguing against layered intangibility as though that is what is being argued, when Rosa just has a different kind of intangibility from what the cast has shown to interact with. Your entire argument is nothing but disbelief that RWBY could have NPI.
You dont want the argument that aura grants NPI? Fine, let's run with that. Without taking aura into account, the cast has STILL INTERAC5ED WITH INTANGIBLE OPPONENTS and would thus have NPI without the use of Aura.
As for the rest, the only reacing being done is by you trying to desperately think of what if scenarios that could prove you right when those scenarios are contradicted by the show and guidebook. You claim that the proof for them having NPI comes from secondary sources, yet you're trying to use a non-canon parody show to prove your point. You're arguing against layered intangibility as though that is what is being argued, when Rosa just has a different kind of intangibility from what the cast has shown to interact with. Your entire argument is nothing but disbelief that RWBY could have NPI.
You dont want the argument that aura grants NPI? Fine, let's run with that. Without taking aura into account, the cast has STILL INTERAC5ED WITH INTANGIBLE OPPONENTS and would thus have NPI without the use of Aura.
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Imagine being so fixated on low-ends that a high-end is just a reach to you lmfao, honestly if you need proof I don't like rwby I don't even know who the **** has the Intangibility semblance, or who 2/4 Maidens are, hell, I don't even remember the name of the neko member of team RWBY off the top of my head lmfaoA RWBY character actually interacting with something incorporeal, or an actual ghost. And then Aura actually being the stated reason for this interaction if you wantt o scale it to EVERYONE in the verse. Its not a big ask.
Idc about Warcraft stop bringing it up. Im sure it has real ghosts and stuff people can actually hit unlike RWBY
Its wank, you're literally admitting it yourself lol.
Id rather like to believe the wiki wants accurate, and concretely shown abilities. But nah, just whatever you like.
Okay now prove how the Geists being hit, despite being 'intangible' doesnt contradict the fact its possible for a Geist to get hit.
Uh huh sure.
You've literally just admitted you're wanking it bro and using it cause its a high-end (a.k.a a reach).
I dont ever expect people who wank a verse to come out with it, but you've literally done so
Its not reasonable though, as it can be debated against and isn't concrete when the show goes against whats shown.
I'm experienced enough in these type of things to know what that means lol.
You all want to vote on the RWBY profiles having Possible NPI? Do it.
theres no reason Harriet, Ruby or Clover would be the only 3 people in the verse to have this ability, but at the same time you cant ever say how the Geists' intangibility properly works.
Somehow you can derive the difference from a semblance that also makes you intangible (And argue the biggest reaches ever) when they've both been described exactly the same, yet theyre different?
Either way, I can tell you're getting just a little(a lot) sodium-infused, so I'm gonna let you calm down before I go into full salf-farming mode
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I know Jojo thanks. That series actually establishes Stands and how their intangibility works, with actual Ghosts in the series.
Rwby aint jojo. you're all piecing this together from scraps of secondary-canon sources and admitting its just high-end reaching lol. RWBY will NEVER be as good as Jojo bro
Bro never have i actually clinged onto RWBY Chibi as my main point.
I brought it up once, and offhandedly another time, but i literally put that i am aware its not canon.
The fact you're genuinely making up lies now and making up a point i dont even believe in is insane. Actual worry how much you want to wank this series.
RWBY Chibi is literally the only other medium im aware the Geist appears in. Thats it. Its not a point.
How is it actually different though fr? Just cause RWBY HAVE to have NPI, and therefore its different? They're explained exactly the same, 'Intangible'. If thats enough for you to go off at the Geist grimm, why is it suddenly so different.
Except the Geist being 'intangible' is not clear.
Thats it. Its not clear.
Intangibility works in more ways than one. You are actually, genuinely not capable of understanding this. Just cause something is described as intangible does not always mean its never tangible. And the Geist has directly went against this, even IF we go on your 'first assumption' basis.
If RWBY could interact with actual Ghosts n shit, then the show should get on to actually showing it. Not writing adjectives you'll stretch to the furthest of heights.
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I dont go for low-ends. I go for actual, accurate info. As this wiki should, despite its reputation among the debating community as a whole.
If there havent been enough showings for a power, and it has points against it, then its skeptical/wrong. And thus isnt treated as fact. Normally at least.
Grow up. You were literally dumb enough to admit you're wanking on purpose.
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Either way im going to bed now lol.
If we're making any compromise here, then its to add 'Possible NPI' to all the profiles. as long as Resistance to Transmutation is gone thats fine by me. But even then its wrong and a lot of you know its wrong.
You can all vote on that if you want, otherwise the discussion can continue for me at least.
If we're making any compromise here, then its to add 'Possible NPI' to all the profiles. as long as Resistance to Transmutation is gone thats fine by me. But even then its wrong and a lot of you know its wrong.
You can all vote on that if you want, otherwise the discussion can continue for me at least.
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You say this as you argue factually incorrect things and try to say that layered Intangibility can't be accurate
If there's a statement and it's hit its NPI, if something else can't be hit by those who hit the thing its layered NPI, nice and simple.
Ooh, this seems toxic, don't tell me your losing your cool?
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Nah, the only compromise is that those who have hit geists have NPI and those that haven't have possibly NPI
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This sounds reasonable to me.
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I can agree to that as well
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This is going to be such a pain in the ass to respond to when I get home lmao
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There's probably no need to. It looks like the suggest compromise may be accepted.
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Just confirming this as it was brought up as an attempted counterpoint, Rosa's Intangibility semblance is phasing-based intangibility, not the non-physical intangibility of Geists or the elemental intangibility of Ruby's semblance.
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And the geist isnt also that intangibility?
Why would the Geist be intangible but couldnt phase through stuff by your definition? Its just 'intangible' as described. I dont know why the Geist would be a specific 'non-physical' intangible just from the one word, and the fact its been hit before completely denying that notion regardless. Seems more like the show contradicting itself like it usually does lol
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Except theres literally nothing notable in the background that gives them the power specifically. Why would everyone else not have it completely affirmed, but only these 3 do when the problem is we dont clearly know how the Geist's intangibility works (Since apparently now it cant 'phase through objects'? I dont know of any sort of actual intangiblility that doesnt let you pass through solid matter to some extent so? RWBY hasn't got anything what Stands have)
Either way somethings crept up irl so i dont need to waste time with this if its just gonna be a possibility, im fine with whatever doesnt make it so certain, since it is so uncertain (and not true but w/e). Would much prefer its a possibility for Ruby, Harriet and Clover since there should literally be no reason they'd have this specific power if they did, but no one else when it doesnt relate to their actual unique abilities.
But please for the love of God, examples like people hitting Ruby's semblance genuinely isnt an example here when we know Ruby has to split her petal form to get past a solid object (And shes been hit in petal form once again in the ongoing season), shes produced an actual force with it when she smashed through the Atlas security door in the Aceops fight, and breaking herself down to molecular components doesn't make her specifically non-physical (You cant 'negate mass' completely while also having the semblance be able to provide a force, or be hit by someone. Blame RWBY writing. The molecules are clearly just less localised in this form and can move more individually). For anyone still thinking this is a valid reason
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"B-but it doesn't fit with my low-ends!"
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Intangibility
Intangibility is the ability to pass through things physically. Characters with this ability are simply unaffected by attacks, as they pass through their bodies. This can also allow them to pass through walls and other physical objects. The exact mechanics of intangibility differ depending on...
vsbattles.fandom.com
Elemental Intangibility: The ability to become intangible by transforming into a substance, such as wind, fire, or water, making it so that most attacks merely disperse them instead of truly damaging them, allowing them to regenerate. However, this would still leave the user vulnerable to many forms of attack, such as sufficiently powerful energy or elemental attacks.
This is the kind of intangibility Ruby has in her semblance state
Immaterial: This type of intangibility allows the user to phase through most attacks due to not being made up of a physical substance, such as ghosts or characters who merely exist as a disembodied soul. It also includes characters that are made up of things like energy. Of course, this intangibility type still has its own weaknesses - a soul is vulnerable to soul manipulation, for example.
This is the kind of intangibility the Geist and Chill have
Phasing: The ability to phase through matter by becoming briefly intangible, sometimes through such means as vibrating one's molecules at such a speed that it becomes possible to move through physical matter. This includes doing things like altering your own density to phase through objects. However, this does not necessarily allow the user to phase through immaterial energy-based attacks.
This is the kind of intangibility Rosa has
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Elemental intangibility. Elemental doesnt let you pass through stuff, all it does is turn you into elements that disperse around attacks, like Logia intangibility from One Piece. Thats what Ruby has when she is in her semblance state as she turns into a cloud of scattered molecules and rose petals, and is also why she is able to generate force in her semblance state, because she is still a physical material, her intangibility just disperses her around attacks rather than going through solid objects.
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No wonder you dont know what accurate stats are.
Genuinely admitting you wanking RWBY bro
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Ight where tf you getting 'Immaterial' from just from being called 'Intangible'. Where has the Geist ever shown to phase through attacks?
Geists arent made of energy, they're made of the same shit as Grimm.
And Chills are actually incorporeal (dont have a physical form unlike the Geists )
Yes weekly. I call it elemental intangibility too if you hadn't read. But it is not passive, and nowhere near as good as Logia.
Shes got the diet version. She still gets hit in this form multiple times and has to actively split her body (tbf on a seemingly instinctive reaction, but that clearly doesnt work all the time since she gets pounded constantly)
Yes, and ergo its not an example of NPI. Dont use it for such.
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Like genuinely, when has the Geist 'phased through attacks'?
How are you so certain this is the Geists type of intangibility from this when it literally has never shown to phase through a hit before? If anything, its the complete opposite and it has been hit. All from the word 'intangible' when you're clearly saying theres different types now. The Geist itself has shown the ability to phase through and into things its possessing if anything
Lowkey hoping for the miracle and you actually understand the uncertainty this time.
How are you so certain this is the Geists type of intangibility from this when it literally has never shown to phase through a hit before? If anything, its the complete opposite and it has been hit. All from the word 'intangible' when you're clearly saying theres different types now. The Geist itself has shown the ability to phase through and into things its possessing if anything
Lowkey hoping for the miracle and you actually understand the uncertainty this time.
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Low-ends are often half-true, if all feats are accounted for a low-end isn't accurate, in this case, NPI is accounted for in three aspects.
If you don't like that then you're welcome to argue against the like 3 or 4 staff that agree NPI for those who have interacted with geists and possibly NPI for those who haven't is the best way to go.
Not every verse needs a universal energy system or something like that for NPI dude, just punching out something you shouldn't be able to is very much good enough
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Trust me. Ive been here long enough to know multiple Staff members doesnt make it gospel truth. Staff dont hold stronger power over opinions, other than the people that want to follow them for being admins among other things, but that doesn't deter me when this is so blatantly...too unclear a basis to give every character in the verse NPI? All they do power-wise is mediate a debate, but it cant be said their opinion is 'better' lol. That goes against equal debate.
Except the Geist still hasn't been concretely shown that its impossible to 'punch' normally, and most are blatantly admitting (i can guess from the comments liking) that its so you can get high-end RWBY. You're all deciding to go for the best option instead of it being the most certain option (and the less certain option out of the Geist's intangibility being limited to its possession of material), and thats just blatant bias imo. You cant even get the type of intangibilty for certain yourselves lol
You're the only one talking low-ends here. I just go by facts and dont let my personal desire for a verse to be stronger (or have wanked arguments like Aura users being immune to matter manipulation or transmutation) get in the way of common sense and validity of said-feat. Or so i'd like to think.
If theres more actual, blatant evidence, preferably in the show or mentioned specifically beyond an adjective, that isnt dumb or can be debunked (The Chill), then i'd be fine with it and agree. Things like Aura resisting high/low temps to an extent is fine cause its actually been shown and stated multiple times, with no other way around (Weiss literally mentions how aura lets them withstand like, antarctica level temps and she takes lava to the face). But a power thats never blatantly mentioned or shown (while also saying they cant normally hit the Geist or smthn), pieced together from one guidebook statement, and is being used to scale to EVERY character? While also being unclear and able to be debunked...Like, im not side-eyeing that for your benefit cause i am genuinely aware how RWBY is discussed within the wiki
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It hasnt, because the cast can hit it despite its intangibility.
Love how youre hyperfixating on parts of the immaterial intangibility description that have nothing to do with the Geist as though it proves your point somehow.
It doesnt need to be passive to be elemental intangibility.
"Ruby can turn intangible and has been hit multiple times while intangible, so dont use those examples as proof of NPI!"
Do you see how stupid this sounds?
Coming from the person who has been ignoring the point for two threads now. Its obvious you wont listen and are just being willfully ignorant because you dont want to admit youre wrong. You are the one who does not understand, because you do not WANT to understand. You just want to be right. But you are not.
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