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Rubia Elstein VS Kamen Rider Saber

Damn you’re right, well what does Rubia start off with? Since I think we both know what both are capable of doing and their potential wincons
 
As stated by other thread, shell try to use range attack but since it's close range she'll use her swordmanship.
 
Yeah since it’s close range Saver destroys when it comes to sword combat, unless Rubia is surprisingly skilled enough to keep up with 40kfantasy characters
 
Some Saber skill feat including bodied the second best swordman of the generation after his training. Beat his father who is the best swordman of his own generation. Sparring with 2k years old swordmaster to have ever exist in the history of the organisation.

That said organisation is entirely made up of master swordman across the world who nornally fought against Megid, monster who have lived fighting against previous generation of Seiken wielder for generation, able to defeat Flachion in term of swordplay who is peer to the 2k year old swordmaster who can copies techniques with a glance, but lose due to Falchion having ridiculously broken Seiken and Immortality.
 
I'm here. Before I start dwelving into the match, which abilities does Saber have in this fight in particular? I assume he has Civilian-Innate + Draconic Knight + Resistances from Wonder Combos, but does he have those from Resonated Rekka and/or Wonder Guardian?
 
BERRIES555 said:
Saber pulling out his deconstruction tornado
Click to expand...
From what I'm seeing on his profile, Deconstruction is from the Wonder Combos tab, which, unless I misunderstood, isn't used here?


To answer and detail some things
  • The Isolation Barrier can be sensed and dispelled, however for that to happen, the other person needs to have a high magical affinity and/or have very specific or directed knowledge and experience in dealing with barriers. The IB isn't a type of barrier that's inherently visible to the naked eye, but instead "visible with your senses", if you get what I mean. I don't know if the Kamen Rider verse has magic in it or a type of energy similar enough; if Saber has a high magical affinity, he should sense it. Once cast, the IB does 3 things: it weakens enemies inside, it reverts the effects of stat amps and cancels enemy barriers, and it makes the caster (and her allies) a lot harder to track or discern... you can think of it as a sort of perception manipulation. However, it's not known if IB can revert multiple stat-amps or only 1. At the very least, I don't think it would work against Saber's Reactive PL.
  • The Elemental Lords are this series' equivalent to the highest form of power. They are essentially treated as divinities by the population. And elementalists can interact or even fight against the elements and spell of the Lords.
However, beyond that is the question of whether STnBD's and Kamen Rider's divine aspects are even comparable. Saber's profile mentioned Holy Manipulation and holy weapons, but Holy as in the element and aspect or Holy as in divine stuff? If it's the element, then Rubia can handle it just fine. If it's the divine stuff, then I'm unsure if Rubia can handle that part of the arsenal.​
  • Considering the starting range is 10 meters and Saber has a weapon of his own, it's likely for Rubia to engage in swordfighting alongside spells
  • Speaking of spells, I'll bring up the two special ones
    • Frost Blaze produces blue flames that can freeze anything they come in contact with, including elements or NPI enemies, and shatter them into tiny pieces. They can bypass durability and fire/ice/magic resistance, as not even Georgios, a spirit whose of the primary appeals is how much he can tank and resist, and Terminus Est, the Demon Lord-slaying-and-anti-magic-sword spirit herself was affected by them.
    • End of Vermillion is a more "traditionnal" fire spell whose main appeal is being an anti-fire spell. If EoV's flames come in contact with other flames, those are then nullified and "eaten" by EoV. Even Frost Blaze gets countered by EoV, and other characters than Rubia have interacted with Elemental Lords before, like the protagonist Kamito, but even Rinslet who's much weaker and interacted with the Water Lord. EoV similarly bypasses durability and fire resistance, even absorption.
  • Rubia's precognition, while effective, is limited, and is more of an extension of her ridiculously high senses and extrasensory perception than true precog. The best showcase of this ability is when she last-moment avoided Kamito's OH-KO move despite not knowing anything about it or that Kamito was even planning on using it. Despite that, it's not something she can comfortably rely on. It's a type of ability that, at best, passively adds a small win rate %, but it cannot overthrow entire fights. It's nowhere near Sharingan-level
  • Word of Power is a spell with an over-time effect. It won't and cannot be immediate, though it starts taking effect quickly, and with mental and physical strong side-effects; even Claire who displayed resistance to mind effects was severely affected. The downside is that Rubia would have to be talking while fighting. Against someone as skilled as Saber, the tiniest opening would prove fatal.
  • A good thing for Rubia is that she effectively has 3 stat-amps + a 4th one for her fire spells via Flames of Elstein. However, even with those I dont think Rubia even comes close to Saber's AP, who has his own forms of empowering himself.

With all that said, even with what I mentioned here for Rubia, even with her other abilities (Info Analysis, Instinctive Reactions, Illusions, Resistance to fire, etc.), even with her really high skill that's unmatched in STnBD, even with her genius and strategic mind, even with her knowledge on magic and spirits that goes beyond conventional mortal means...
I believe Rubia is outclassed here.
After reading Saber's profile, going over the arguments made for him here, along the hear-say I've heard about the Kamen Rider series, this matchup is kind of insane. Despite Rubia having achieve great feats, Saber outskills her, and hard. Rubia can deal with stat-amps sure, but Reactive Power Level isn't a thing in STnBD which is essentially a continuous stat-amp that has theoritically no end, and Rubia hasn't faced this before. Saber's skill with a sword is a result of going from zero to hero, while Rubia's skill comes from ridiculous natural talent and being the reincarnation of the girl who slayed the Demon Lord 1000 years ago. It's a "hard work vs natural talent" debate, but considering Saber's insane level of skill, I don't think even Rubia can match. And since they start 10 meters apart, it's more likely Rubia will use sword + some spells rather than 100% spells, and Saber can capitalize on that.
Also, Saber's LS dwarfs Rubia's, he outranges her by a lot, and he even outsmarts her. Finally, there's the uncertainty in how an interaction between Saber's and Rubia's flames would go. Even if we say EoV and FB would work on Saber, they're possible wincons for sure, but there are not necessarily one-shots, especially not against someone of Saber's ability. Saber's fire-based attack reflection might not work if EoV "eats" Saber's flames, but even then Saber his sword-based attack reflection which likely works, so in any case he can reflect ranged attacks.
 
Sorry bro but I’m like, suupppper busy rn. I’ll try to respond as soon as possible but I may not be able to respond unlike like, 30 minutes from now.
 
GoldenScorpions said:
  • The Elemental Lords are this series' equivalent to the highest form of power. They are essentially treated as divinities by the population. And elementalists can interact or even fight against the elements and spell of the Lords.
However, beyond that is the question of whether STnBD's and Kamen Rider's divine aspects are even comparable. Saber's profile mentioned Holy Manipulation and holy weapons, but Holy as in the element and aspect or Holy as in divine stuff? If it's the element, then Rubia can handle it just fine. If it's the divine stuff, then I'm unsure if Rubia can handle that part of the arsenal.
Click to expand...
Saber Divine flame came from Rekka and Brave Dragon. Rekka itself is the very first and strongest Seiken to exist, outshine that of Saikou and Kurayami sisters Seiken that represent darkness and light. The other came from Brave Dragon Wonder Ride Book. Wonder Ride Book is a fragment/page that has been scattered from the Book of Almighty, aka, Book of Omniscience, and so on. Book of Almighty contained, and dictate anything that has, could, and will happened and govern the very story of the universe itself. While the Wonder Ride Book is merely a fragment you might be able to see the scope of how big the Book of Almighty is.
GoldenScorpions said:
I don't know if the Kamen Rider verse has magic in it or a type of energy similar enough; if Saber has a high magical affinity, he should sense it. Once cast, the IB does 3 things: it weakens enemies inside, it reverts the effects of stat amps and cancels enemy barriers, and it makes the caster (and her allies) a lot harder to track or discern... you can think of it as a sort of perception manipulation. However, it's not known if IB can revert multiple stat-amps or only 1. At the very least, I don't think it would work against Saber's Reactive PL.
Click to expand...
Hmm to make some sort of equivalent, most Rider is able to senses "evil" or Megid nearby. But Touma is able to see Luna, his childhood friend and the avatar of the Book of Almighty, through a wormhole into some sort of wormhole while other cannot at first. Not sure if that'll work tho but later on he's able to see some serious shit like Durendal moving inside timeless abyss.

To clarify some pointz.
 
GoldenScorpions said:
Saber's skill with a sword is a result of going from zero to hero, while Rubia's skill comes from ridiculous natural talent and being the reincarnation of the girl who slayed the Demon Lord 1000 years ago. It's a "hard work vs natural talent" debate, but considering Saber's insane level of skill, I don't think even Rubia can match. And since they start 10 meters apart, it's more likely Rubia will use sword + some spells rather than 100% spells, and Saber can capitalize on that.
Click to expand...
And on this part... it's weird. On one hand a part can definitely be contribute to his own skill and talents alone, but maybe the fact that he's mark with the MC of the multiverse status from Luna might have also help.
 
GoldenScorpions said:
The Isolation Barrier can be sensed and dispelled, however for that to happen, the other person needs to have a high magical affinity and/or have very specific or directed knowledge and experience in dealing with barriers. The IB isn't a type of barrier that's inherently visible to the naked eye, but instead "visible with your senses", if you get what I mean. I don't know if the Kamen Rider verse has magic in it or a type of energy similar enough; if Saber has a high magical affinity, he should sense it. Once cast, the IB does 3 things: it weakens enemies inside, it reverts the effects of stat amps and cancels enemy barriers, and it makes the caster (and her allies) a lot harder to track or discern... you can think of it as a sort of perception manipulation. However, it's not known if IB can revert multiple stat-amps or only 1. At the very least, I don't think it would work against Saber's Reactive PL.
Click to expand...
Alright, so about the IB, like what Nice had said, Saber is capable of seeing things that other Riders cannot see, these Riders having strong enough senses to grasp the surroundings around them like a 3D map (Kinda like a daredevil radar sense but without the precog).
GoldenScorpions said:
The Elemental Lords are this series' equivalent to the highest form of power. They are essentially treated as divinities by the population. And elementalists can interact or even fight against the elements and spell of the Lords.
However, beyond that is the question of whether STnBD's and Kamen Rider's divine aspects are even comparable. Saber's profile mentioned Holy Manipulation and holy weapons, but Holy as in the element and aspect or Holy as in divine stuff? If it's the element, then Rubia can handle it just fine. If it's the divine stuff, then I'm unsure if Rubia can handle that part of the arsenal.​
Click to expand...
Well Rekka and even the armor that Saber is wearing is considered to be a holy weapon, with the data books consistently mentioning that the flames that Rekka generates aren't normal as they're "Holy Flames".
GoldenScorpions said:
Considering the starting range is 10 meters and Saber has a weapon of his own, it's likely for Rubia to engage in swordfighting alongside spells
  • Speaking of spells, I'll bring up the two special ones
    • Frost Blaze produces blue flames that can freeze anything they come in contact with, including elements or NPI enemies, and shatter them into tiny pieces. They can bypass durability and fire/ice/magic resistance, as not even Georgios, a spirit whose of the primary appeals is how much he can tank and resist, and Terminus Est, the Demon Lord-slaying-and-anti-magic-sword spirit herself was affected by them.
    • End of Vermillion is a more "traditionnal" fire spell whose main appeal is being an anti-fire spell. If EoV's flames come in contact with other flames, those are then nullified and "eaten" by EoV. Even Frost Blaze gets countered by EoV, and other characters than Rubia have interacted with Elemental Lords before, like the protagonist Kamito, but even Rinslet who's much weaker and interacted with the Water Lord. EoV similarly bypasses durability and fire resistance, even absorption.
Click to expand...
Frost Blaze may work...may. See, it honestly just depends on how strong these things are compared to Saber's fire as in his base form, Saber is capable of generatng fire that deconstructs. That's with a normal Volume One state, we're using Draconic Knight, who's massively above 4.5x than his base. EoV's going to get reflected, as the reflection doesn't come from the fire, it actually just Saber spinning his sword really fast.
GoldenScorpions said:
From what I'm seeing on his profile, Deconstruction is from the Wonder Combos tab, which, unless I misunderstood, isn't used here?
Click to expand...
The decon comes from his base form which is far weaker than Draconic Knight, the form we're using. Both Brave Dragon (The Base Form) and Draconic Knight are forms which specialized with fire attacks, it's just that Draconic Knight is far stronger than Brave Dragon.


Hope this clears a few things.
 
Oh, my bad bro, I thought that me or Nice mentioned that Brave Dragon is just a superior version of Draconic Knighy
 
Thanks for the clarifications.
In that case, I don't think Rubia can really even do anything. I already admitted Saber overwhelms Rubia hard, and that her few wincons were only maybes. Now they're even more uncertain, so I don't think Rubia has a chance
 
BERRIES555 said:
Frost Blaze may work...may. See, it honestly just depends on how strong these things are compared to Saber's fire as in his base form, Saber is capable of generatng fire that deconstructs. That's with a normal Volume One state, we're using Draconic Knight, who's massively above 4.5x than his base. EoV's going to get reflected, as the reflection doesn't come from the fire, it actually just Saber spinning his sword really fast.
Click to expand...
Just for more clarity, Saber can reflect attack like what you said but his fire passively bounce backs attacks in this form.

Also, the reason why he had base and wonder combo powers is that he can put the books into his wrist weapon (called Dragonic Booster) and can infuse his armor and sword with the powers of said book. Currently, Saber's Saiyuu Journey is the only deconstruction fire he has, but he can scan that book in either his sword or Dragonic Booster to gain that power. Although, you can argue that Dragonic Knight's fire scales higher which I agree with because it burned Jaou Dragon Calibur which Crimson Dragon Saber couldn't even burn.
 
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