|| Roronoa Zoro vs Sasuke Uchiha ||

[UchihaSlayer96]

You really do not need to be faster to block it when u have the ability to know when it's coming before it occurs and let's you counter on time.

How can you dodge someone simply perceiving you, when you're not faster than their perception?

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

And technically the Sharingan is a Speed Amp for Reaction and Perception Speed

 

[Ashura]

Against A, Sasuke's vision was on an afterimage of A, when the afterimage disappeared Sasuke's vision immediately fell on the Samurai, behind the afterimage, covering him flames.

The flames would spawn on the swords then. Spreading and melting them.

Swords won't get melted, he's been hit with a huge lightning bolt and tanked with little to no burns.

It's been shown that cutting the flames distinguishes them or makes them smaller in the pic above. U can be covered by a town ranged explosion or flames and still be able to cut through it without any problem.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

And technically the Sharingan is a Speed Amp for Reaction and Perception Speed

Let's not forget Sasuke also has his own form of Precog, pattern recognition and analysis, and fight style analysis and copying as well.

 

[Ashura]

How can you dodge someone simply perceiving you, when you're not faster than their perception?

You're not dodging, you're simply cutting precisely on that point in time when he uses it.

 

[Ashura]

Let's not forget Sasuke also has his own form of Precog, pattern recognition and analysis, and fight style analysis and copying as well.

Observation Haki is >> Sharingan precog.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

You're not dodging, you're simply cutting precisely on that point in time when he uses it.

Sasuke will just see where he'll be cutting, and not aim there. You're forgetting he has precog as well....

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

Swords won't get melted, he's been hit with a huge lightning bolt and tanked with little to no burns.

Technically they would as Amaterasu is able to burn and damage objects that have Durability ranging from 6-C to 6-A+

 

[Ashura]

And technically the Sharingan is a Speed Amp for Reaction and Perception Speed

Observation haki is the same thing because it allows then to perceive light itself which is why those can combat the likes of kizaru who is ftl. Luffy called pacifista lasers slow.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Observation Haki is >> Sharingan precog.

Advanced OH, which Zoro doesn't have anyway, only allows you to see a few second into the future, while Sharingan precog allows you to see the opponent's immediate next move (even as a novice to the base sharingan, Sasuke could do that, and the EMS's perceptive abilities are >>> regular sharingan). To me they seem rather comparable tbh.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Observation haki is the same thing because it allows then to perceive light itself which is why those can combat the likes of kizaru who is ftl. Luffy called pacifista lasers slow.

First of all, Kizaru is not accepted as FTL currently on his profile. Secondly, speed is equalized so it literally doesn't matter.

 

[Ashura]

Sasuke will just see where he'll be cutting, and not aim there. You're forgetting he has precog as well....

Observation is better with information as one can unconsciously see/predict events happening before they do. Zoro getting the most out of it than sasuke is.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Observation is better with information as one can unconsciously see/predict events happening before they do. Zoro getting the most out of it than sasuke is.

Sasuke can literally see his opponent's next move though. Like actually see an image of it, and can keep track of the movements of much faster characters, but again that's not relevant here since speed is equalized anyway.

 

[Ashura]

First of all, Kizaru is not accepted as FTL currently on his profile. Secondly, speed is equalized so it literally doesn't matter.

That's due to get a crts soon. My apology if i said ftl, sol still benefits from my argument. And you saying sharingan amps so why can't zoro get his amps via haki¿

 

[Rocker1189]

Observation is better with information as one can unconsciously see/predict events happening before they do. Zoro getting the most out of it than sasuke is.

huh? The sharingan can do most of what Zoro's observation can do and more (and this is not even the MS version) the only difference between them is that the sharingan needs sight while observation doesnt. Sasuke can predict his movements and literally see the next move like he did with Naruto as kids.

Edit: even I make the muscle movements mistake cause people keep spouting that untrue statement.

 

[KingTempest]

huh? The sharingan can do most of what Zoro's observation can do and more

Yeah no

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

Observation Haki works by seeing the future and the users using that to their advantage right?

So Zoro sees the future actions of Sasuke

Sasuke does those actions

Zoro anticipates and counters those actions

Sasuke reacts to Zoro and counters

So basically a back and forth of this?

 

[Rocker1189]

Yeah no

what exactly can Zoro's observation haki do that the sharingan cant.

 

[Popted2]

Sasuke FRA

 

[KingTempest]

what exactly can Zoro's observation haki do that the sharingan cant.

Emotion sensing
Intent sensing
Power sensing
Nigh precognition
Telepathy

Yeah no

 

[Rocker1189]

Emotion sensing
Intent sensing
Power sensing
Nigh precognition

Yeah no

So basic sensing, nigh precognition...really now the main thing that the sharingan is literally known for. Intent sensing is barely different from nigh precognition you can tell the intent of the person based on their current state. Power sensing literally the sharingan allows you to read the level of your opponent based on both energy amounts and fighting style, ignoring that power sensing in itself that is a basic thing anyone with chakra can do, the one thing that you got right is emotion sensing.

And has Zoro in particular shown each of those levels of sensing.

 

[Ashura]

You're underestimating Observation haki. Sharingan doesn't give u exact factual visions and it's completly seperate from your other senses. We've been explaining observations haki's functions this entire thread to counter gen mindhax. (i give u the mindhax win) but nah. Sorry but you're underestimating observations haki. Zoro also uses the breath of all things which is part of observation haki.

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

And you saying sharingan amps so why can't zoro get his amps via haki¿

Because Observation Haki doesn't increase their reaction speed it gives them Precognition or a sneak peek/preview of whats going to happen before they happen, and the users just anticipate/wait for the event/action to happen and react accordingly by countering, dodging, etc.

 

[Rocker1189]

You're underestimating Observation haki. Sharingan doesn't give u exact factual visions and it's completly seperate from your other senses. We've been explaining observations haki's functions this entire thread to counter gen mindhax. (i give u the mindhax win) but nah. Sorry but you're underestimating observations haki. Zoro also uses the breath of all things which is part of observation haki.

I am not underestimating Observation haki I am talking about Zoro's observation haki. Haki at best counters basic illusions and perception manip, somthing that the base sharingan already overcomes via scaling and something that MS Sasuke completely overcomes even ignoring full on mind control. You are underestimating the sharingan and especially underestimating the MS.

 

[KingTempest]

So basic sensing, nigh precognition...really now the main thing that the sharingan is literally known for.

Regular ass CoO has people saying exactly what the opponent will do before they even do it.
Sharingan reads muscle movements and predicts.
Huge difference.

Intent sensing is barely different from nigh precognition you can tell the intent of the person based on their current state.

When has the Sharingan ever sensed someone's intentions in a fight?

Power sensing literally the sharingan allows you to read the level of your opponent ignoring that that is a basic thing anyone with chakara can do

Fair

And has Zoro in particular shown each of those levels of sensing.

These are the basic sensings shown by people who can't even use it at will.
Zoro's CoO scales vastly above theirs

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

We've been explaining observations haki's functions this entire thread to counter gen mindhax. (i give u the mindhax win) but nah.

Observation Haki counters Genjutsu that are Illusion + Sense Manip Based yes because the target is still freely able to move.

It doesn't counter Genjutsu that Paralyses, Immobilize, or Mind Control along with Illusions + Sense Manip

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Sharingan reads muscle movements and predicts.

This is not a thing. He sees his opponents next move as a visual image. This muscle tension nonsense is complete headcanon, and I genuinely don't understand how it's still on the profiles in all honesty.

 

[Ashura]

I am not underestimating Observation haki I am talking about Zoro's observation haki. Haki at best counters basic illusions and perception manip, somthing that the base sharingan already overcomes via scaling and something that MS Sasuke completely overcomes even ignoring full on mind control. You are underestimating the sharingan and especially underestimating the MS.

We gave you feats the entire thread from what zoro's haki scales from your basic haki users from the scabbards who can run around and fight evenly with a memeber of the strawhats with just a body part from miles away from his head where most of his senses are. Zoro is better than them. Plus he has the breath of all things.

 

[Rocker1189]

When has the Sharingan ever sensed someone's intentions in a fight?

Zabuza vs Kakashi, he literally stated his words before he said it and finished his own hand signs before Zabuza finished his.

Regular ass CoO has people saying exactly what the opponent will do before they even do it.
Sharingan reads muscle movements and predicts.

The sharingan reads more than muscle movements and you missed my point, my point being that they can both predict each other regardless of the how it happens (I even stated the difference for you in my own comment which you then noted down again..)

These are the basic sensings shown by people who can't even use it at will.

And these are basic things the base sharingan can do, which Sasuke scales massively above, they both are predicting each other maybe Zoro has slightly more ease in doing so, but Sasuke's is more consistent.

We gave you feats the entire thread from what zoro's haki scales from your basic haki users from the scabbards who can run around and fight evenly with a memeber of the strawhats with just a body part from miles away from his head where most of his senses are. Zoro is better than them. Plus he has the breath of all things.

Bro idk if you are reading my comments for the millionth time I understand how haki works and how it can counter illusions simply said it wont work on the level of mind hax that Sasuke has, understand?

 

[Rocker1189]

This is not a thing. He sees his opponents next move as a visual image. This muscle tension nonsense is complete headcanon, and I genuinely don't understand how it's still on the profiles in all honesty.

this is very true, it is massive head canon that the fandom made up so much so that I even make the mistake of stating it as well, sharingan never has predicted based on muscle movements.

 

[KingTempest]

This is not a thing. He sees his opponents next move as a visual image. This muscle tension nonsense is complete headcanon, and I genuinely don't understand how it's still on the profiles in all honesty.

Zabuza vs Kakashi, he literally stated his words before he said it and finished his own hand signs before Zabuza finished his.

The sharingan reads more than muscle movements and you missed my point, my point being that they can both predict each other regardless of the how it happens (I even stated the difference for you in my own comment which you then noted down again..)

 

[Ashura]

Probably accidentally responded to wrong message cuz i was scrolling up.

 

[Rocker1189]

Nothing there comtradicts what he or I said. It does not mention muscle.movements once. Heck this doesn't stop it from doing what it does.

 

[KingTempest]

Nothing there comtradicts what he or I said. It does not mention muscle.movements once. Heck this doesn't stop it from doing what it does.

"Analyze my superficial movements"

 

[Rocker1189]

"Analyze my superficial movements"

That is not muscle movement we know it is based on current movement though else it won't be analytical prediction....

 

[KingTempest]

That is not muscle movement we know it is based on current movement though else it won't be analytical prediction....

You say "it won't be analytical prediction" when they say the word "analyze" in the sentence.

It's muscle movement, he's analyzing his movements to predict what they'll do next, and then he mimics him based on the predictions. Or does he not use his muscles to move now?

 

[Rocker1189]

You say "it won't be analytical prediction" when they say the word "analyze" in the sentence.

It's muscle movement, he's analyzing his movements to predict what they'll do next, and then he mimics him based on the predictions. Or does he not use his muscles to move now?

........idk if you are reading my comments I said "or else it won't be analytical prediction" that is to say that it is...

He is analyzing superficial movement which is not only base on muscle it is bases on a multitude of things else they won't be capable of predicting other objects which they do perfectly fine.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

In this particular instance, Zabuza is hypothesizing on how the Sharingan's mimicry works, and notes Kakashi's potential use of genjutsu.

I don't see how any of that contradicts us actually visually seeing Sasuke see the future movements of his opponents. At worst, this just gives the Sharingan both precog and analytical prediction.

 

[KingTempest]

........idk if you are reading my comments I said "or else it won't be analytical prediction" that is to say that it is...

He is analyzing superficial movement which is not only base on muscle it is bases on a multitude of things else they won't be capable of predicting other objects which they do perfectly fine.

You misunderstood, I said that that's the reason why it has analytical prediction.

I'll quote what I said to someone else.

It says it analyzes the "superficial movements" movements that aren't seen as important "I.E. twitching of the arm or movement of the muscle" then copies what it does afterwards, while using genjutsu to give the copier signals of what they'll be doing in the future.

In this particular instance, Zabuza is hypothesizing on how the Sharingan's mimicry works, and notes Kakashi's potential use of genjutsu.

And he's never proven wrong.

I don't see how any of that contradicts us actually visually seeing Sasuke see the future movements of his opponents. At worst, this just gives the Sharingan both precog and analytical prediction.

That movement isn't literal seeing the future movements, which Zabuza confirms and Kakashi doesn't counter.
It's him predicting, which is notified as that. We can't see someone predicting, so we get signals like that.
The same thing was shown when Ay dodged Amaterasu. We didn't say "Sasuke saw the future and saw Ay dodging", he was just moving fast.
It never read the future. Which is why he couldn't read the chakra movement.

 

[Rocker1189]

I'll quote what I said to someone else.

Genjutsu it not used at all in what kakashi did, the "illusion" is just him saying that he puts someone under a certain pretense.

Again superficial movement doesn't only mean muscles. Chakra has 0 superficial movements.

Regardless we have gone massively off topic. Zoro still needs superficial movements to move last I checked and my point from the beginning is that they can predict each other regardless of the how.

Sasuke genjutsus and this went on far longer than it should have.