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*RISE OF SKYWALKER SPOILERS* Rey's Page.

ArkhamDC06 said:
the balance thing isn't about power. Anyone could have killed Sidious that way. He was destined to do this and was powerful enough to overpower the Son and the Daughter at the same time in the Mortis arc, even if he was empowered by the "planet" (we know he was), it is explictly said that only the Chosen One could dominate them empowered or not and that no one else could do this. The main problem is that since his duel with Obi-Wan on Mustafar, he never reached his true potential. Rey can improve but if you just look at what Vader SPOILER does at the end of Fallen Order (wich is completely canon), you know he is more powerful (and he did it casually). Rey's power comes from her lineage (the Dyad thing is only valuable when she is united with Kylo, otherwise she is not empowered by it).
And no, Rey didn't brought balance to the Fore, she destroyed the Sith Order, wich is somehting different. The balance is about giving a new beginning to the Force because at the time of Anakin, the Light was "in inferiority" since the Jedi Order had fallen to the Dark Side by the time of the Clone Wars. To restore the balance, Anakin had to destroy the Order (wich was corrupted by the DS) and then the Sith (Sidious and Vader). He fufilled the prophecy and brought balance indeed. What happened later wasn't a part of the balance thing.

Rey's key proposal seems fine to me (it must be clear se was "empowered").
Click to expand...
Balance to the Force is basically about exterminating the Sith, so it is about killing Darth Sidious. The Force is neutral and both the light and dark side are needed for balance, but the Sith Order in particular unbalances the Force either due to their plots to actively get rid of the Light Side or because they bind the Force to their will unnaturally.

While the Jedi Order is very flawed and didn't achieve balance (something George described to be beyond mortal comprehension), I don't think they are depicted to be a threat to the balance of the Force; the sequel trilogy doubled down on the position that dabbling in the Dark Side is a bad thing, so just sticking with the Light Side should be fine. I do prefer the interpretation that the Jedi Order itself eventually became a threat to the balance of the Force and had to go, but I am not aware of supporting evidence from canon despite wishing it to be true.

George Lucas stated that Anakin's full potential is being twice as powerful as Palpatine, and he influences the plot of Clone Wars (he infamously delayed the canonization of Darth Revan), so Anakin was just amped by the planet. Rey had a superior casual feat than Darth Vader in the Fallen Order, by lifting a large amount of boulders in the Last Jedi.

Rey did bring balance to the Force. Anakin himself was one of the Force Spirits who spoke, and this was his line: "Rey... Bring back the balance, Rey, as I did... The Force surrounds you, Rey... Let it lift you."

So yeah... Anakin fulfilled a 1200 year prophecy of bringing balance to the Force for less than 30 years, and Rey finished the job. Welcome to the sequel trilogy.
 
Don't quote walls of text. Simply destroying the sith does not mean balance will be ensured. It simply means balance between both.
 
Nah, Rey had all of her force powers sucked out of her and she still beat him.

Rey had to be empowered by all the jedi and still almost lost.
 
GojiBoy Agreed. I was disappointed by the sequels but i still thought TFA and TLJ had good or even very good elements and weren't as bad as many people said. But this ? I was literally facepalming myself at some moments.

DTG499 No Sidious absorbed hers and Ben's life-force and she called upon the Jedi as an extreme measure but even highly weakned (he couldn't even stand out by himself) he easily overpowered them.
 
No, the Dyad is about two people with one representing the Light and one representing the Dark and then when put together, they're more powerful that they could ever hope to be in normal circumstances. The Jedi spirits are no related to this.
 
ArkhamDC06 said:
No, the Dyad is about two people with one representing the Light and one representing the Dark and then when put together, they're more powerful that they could ever hope to be in normal circumstances. The Jedi spirits are no related to this.
Click to expand...
Wrong Kylo and Rey represent all the Jedi because Kylo is a Skywalker who became a sith redeemed himself and Rey is a sith born who became a Jedi, that's the Jedi dyad. The Jedi HAVE to have been living inside before she fought Sidious because that is the only semi-justifiable explanation for her being naturally overpowered
 
Hold up! A good case can actually be made that ex-Emperor Palpatine was amped.

Force Drain has been canon previously because it was mentioned in the Aftermath novel (takes place between TFA and TLJ). Here is what is said:

"Did you know that Sith Lords could sometimes drain the Force energy from their captives? Siphoning life from them and using it to strengthen their connection to the dark side? Extending their own lives, as well, so that they could live for centuries beyond their intended expiration?"
~ Aftermath​
Huh. Strengthening their connection to the Dark Side you say? Regenerationn being one of multiple benefit?

Sounds like an amp to me! So... a new key for Palps?
 
No, you're wrong. The "all the Jedi" is something else.

Wookieepedia about the Dyad :

"A dyad in the Force was the pairing of two Force-sensitive beings, making them one in the Force. The power of a dyad was as strong as life itself, and the individuals who formed a dyad shared a connection that spanned across space and time.

It was foretold in a prophecy that there would be a dyad in the Force, which had been unseen for generations by the time of the New Republic Era. The prophesized dyad was realized within Kylo Ren and Rey. Although they were enemies during the war between the First Order and the Resistance, Ren and Rey shared a unique bond that featured prominently in the lore of the Sith Eternal cultists. During the battle on Exegol, the life force of their dyad was used to restore the Sith Lord Darth Sidious."
 
Oh so we are saying the dyad and the chosen one are the same thing now? Absolutely no basis for that but OK. There was never anyone in the movie saying that's what a dyad is. Sidious just said "You guys are a dyad"
 
So in light of the evidence presented that Palpatine was amped...

Who is in favor of... basically reverting half the changes and just giving Palpatine a new key?
 
Palpatine was half dead (he was one life support, blind and was missing parts of his body) before he drained the Force Bond between Rey and Kylo. So I highly doubt half dead Palpatine is anywhere near as strong as he was in RotS and RotJ. Thus his "amp" from draining Rey and Kylo only brought himself back to his original full power.

The only thing that implies he's stronger is his claim that he is all of the sith. However, this seems to be some further explanation as to how the rule of two works. He told Rey earlier that if she struck him down she would become Empress and they would become one. Which implies every previous Sith lives in Sidious because they each struck down their former master.
 
I feel like Palpatine was just talking smack and lying to making himself look bigger and because he's insane, more insane than before. Plus, the Clone Wars shows that Sith like Darth Bane exist independently as spirits.
 
I can see your point that he wasn't telling the truth and there's no evidence that the Sith live in him. Personally I think it is a really intresting idea that former Sith might live on as part of the person who struck them down.

However, your Darth Bane point doesn't work as he wasn't real it was an illusion as stated by Yoda: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DoOwyGyVsSA
 
@Cmuell015 Read above; the Force Drain ability was mentioned in a canon book, and it says that draining the lifeforce is used to both increase ones lifespan and strengrhen one's connection to the Dark Side.

So the ability is confirmed to give an amp separate from healing. It overall makes more sense that Palpatine was amped.
 
Wasn't Sidious all the sith even during the events of the first 6 movies ? (Except maybe TPM since Plagueis was alive IIRC)
 
Cmuell015 It wasn't really an illusion. Yoda called him that way because now Bane is a ghost linked to his tomb so he cannot do anything (aside from manipulating anyone who is dumb enough to try to talk to him while knowing who and what he is and look big). I don't even know if he can possess someone like in Legends. He is a spirit, just like the Prsence (the female Sith of Malachor) in Rebels, but since he can't do anything "real", Yoda sees him as nothing but a ghostly image.

LordWhis No, he was "only" himself before. Even in the ROS, his statement could perfectly be true, a lie or a metaphor to say that he will be the one who will bring the Sith back so he would symbolically be all the Sith. And no, Plagueis wasn't alive during TPM, it was in the (excellent)novel Darth Plagueis but it isn't canon since Disney bought SW (except for some elements within it like Plagueis's droid or his belief that the Force can strike back if you try to hard to control it wich would confirm he is the one who created Anakin).
 
This all the sith/all the Jedi seems to come with being the only example of sith/Jedi in the galaxy and having generations focused on you. Also true for Sidious in the earlier films.

Yes, I thought he was alive because of the plagueis novel.
 
I'm not arguing against Force Drain being an amp. I'm saying that amped himself from a point of near death that required him to get a new body (which is what he wanted Rey for). Your argument trys to say that Palpatine on life support is just as strong as he was when he wasn't on life support which makes absolutely no sense. Its more logical for Palpatine's amp to have brought him from his weakened near death state back to his original power.
 
Don't really see why it isn't more logical to say that it gave him his former power back, especially when he uses the word "restore". Granted, the statement about being "all the Sith" could simply be the one of an insane psycho (wich he is) or a symbolic statement and not a real thing that could help to say that he was amped.
 
Then you grossly misunderstood the argument. To summarize it: According to a canon book which talked about Force Drain, Force Drain gives two types of amps:

  • Amp #1: Heals you and increases your lifespan
  • Amp #2: Increases your connection to the Dark Side of the Force
Due to Amp #2, Palpatine became stronger than he was in the previous trilogies.

If we look at the movie alone I agree, it is implied the only thing Palpatine did was regain his old power. However we need to take the rest of canon into account, which gives us the conclusion that Force Drain also supercharges Dark Side abilities.
 
Canon has also shown that people who are seriously injured aren't as conected to the force as they were before their injuries including Dark Siders. Darth Vader after just getting the suit wasn't as strong as Anakin and Darth Maul didn't regain his full strength until Mother Talzin healed him.

Seeing as Sidious died, was on life support and said he restored himself you come to the conclusion that he wasn't as conected to the Force as he was prior to dying. Then he regained that strength after he drained Rey and Kylo. The amp simply restored his power by restoring that connection he lost.
 
ArkhamDC06 said:
Luck100 What is that feat eaxctly ?
Cmuell015 This was also included in Legends i think.
Click to expand...
In a recent run of Star Wars (2015) comics , darth vader managed to survive a small moon's fragmentation.
 
ArkhamDC06 said:
So Vader won't get an upgrade to High 7-A as suggested ?
Click to expand...
Vader's portrayal in canon isn't the same as legends when comparing him to Sidious. I recall a comic somewhere where Sidious electrocuted Vader literally right after he rolls off the operating table Post-Mustafar. And as for his death in ROTJ, he died so easily because he let go of all the hate and pain he would've otherwise utilized to keep himself alive and in fighting condition. I also recall another comic where Vader uses the force to get himself moving even when all of his cybernetics were disabled with a remote device.


Playing the devil's advocate here, I daresay Vader in ROTJ is likely stronger than either Rey or Kylo individually (as of ROS). And didn't Sidious drain their lifeforce to restore his former power? So that would imply both Kylo and Rey are likely a bit less than half of Sidious' power individually.

So it's possible we could argue Vader is somewhat in Sidious' leauge, but still weaker (High 7-A) Him being several tiers weaker doesn't make any sense honestly.

But if we've got a good calculable feat we could scale Vader to, that's cool.
 
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