Rimuru VS Altair

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Cause that's not apart of that thread, that one only deals with ap.

As i already posted above, they were born as conceptual existences after receiving the blessings from the spirit of light and dark, obviously demons are conceptual existences that are darkness, and angels light.

And this isn't some metaphor because in tensei demons and angels can't perma die, they just resurrect back into the physical world years later.

The way to kill a spiritual being in tensei is to destroy their souls, everyone relevant does stuff like this cause spiritual life forms can survive physical death and won't die unless you destroy their souls.

Angels and demons still come back from that, cause all you have done is kill the body they possess, their true essence are conceptual existences.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

@Celestial

Being "conceptual existences" if they have no concept they are bound to is just about as worthless as you can get. If they can come back from soul+body destruction then sure, they have mid-godly, but unless they are Type 2 concepts (which I REALLY need scans proving) just saying "they are conceptual guys trust me" even from a character in-verse doesn't help. To be a conceptual you have to have objects bound to you. As a concept you are *insert concept*-ness, at least at Type 2. If they don't show any indication of being "something-ness" then I'm not very sold of such an existence.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

They would be type 1 abstracts, not 2, they do not have mid godly regen.

Demons exists in the underworld without a physical body but are summoned into the world where they have to possess a physical body.

That body can die, but demons won't die, they just go back to the underworld.

Which is why i am saying they are type 1 abstracts, you can destroy the bodies they possess but if you don't affect what they truly are, they just come back into the physical world later when someone summons them from the underworld again.

This is again another crt thread i was gonna make when the abstract revision page was updated.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

@Celestial

With Type 2 I was referring to their conceptual nature. For a second I thought you were claiming that they were type 1 conceptuals and almost died inside.

Also going to another universe/realm to revive is just Low-Godly. Even a very non-abstract character like Amo pulls that off.

 

[OpMasada]

@Celestial
With Type 2 I was referring to their conceptual nature. For a second I thought you were claiming that they were type 1 conceptuals and almost died inside.

Also going to another universe/realm to revive is just Low-Godly. Even a very non-abstract character like Amo pulls that off.

No, they do die, as stated by testarossa as she was going to get killed, she would've just come back after a century or more.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

@OpMasada

So it's non-combat applicable Resurrection.

 

[OpMasada]

@OpMasada
So it's non-combat applicable Resurrection.

Yeah

 

[Dragopentling]

Monkey in the mind

This pretty much sums up my brain right now trying to take in all this info about Conceptual and Acausal shenanigans.
But please....do carry on with this

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

What's the vote count?

 

[The_Causality]

It seem that the Conceptual stuff for rimuru is Ok so i guess he can absorb altair..?

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

It seem that the Conceptual stuff for rimuru is Ok so i guess he can absorb altair..?

Rimuru has not shown the ability to absorb type 4 abstacts on a 2B scale so no

 

[The_Causality]

>Type 4 abstraction

You mean 1 or 2?

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

>Type 4 abstraction
You mean 1 or 2?

type 1 altair herself is a type 4 concept

 

[Dragopentling]

What's the vote count?

as of right now, I don't think anyone properly casted a vote

 

[Elizhaa]

It seem that the Conceptual stuff for rimuru is Ok so i guess he can absorb altair..?

Rimuru has not shown the ability to absorb type 4 abstacts on a 2B scale so no

Via Standard Battle Assumptions, if he shown similar feats, he should be able to

Edit: Altair have Abstract Existence (Type 1; the ability to hit conceptual entities is required to damage her, as her physical form is just an image) and Rimuru Tempest can absorb beings with Abstract Existence (Type 2 like demons). So Rimuru Tempest can absorb her

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

It seem that the Conceptual stuff for rimuru is Ok so i guess he can absorb altair..?

Rimuru has not shown the ability to absorb type 4 abstacts on a 2B scale so no

Via Standard Battle Assumptions, if he shown similar feats, he should be able to

he hasn`t shown able to absrob someone like altair

 

[Elizhaa]

@Setsuna tenma, I updated my message, he can and have done so especially with demons.

Demons in the verse: Abstract Existence (Type 2; Demons were born as conceptual existences that receive power from the Spirit of Darkness and will revive as long as the Spirit of Darkness exist)

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

altair conceptual nature is different frim the ones in tensai slime.She is the idea of herslef on a 2B scale.Rimuru has never dealt with abstracts that embody type 4 concept before

 

[Elizhaa]

@Setsuna tenma, there is no Abstract Existence (Type 4) in the wiki page definition nor is it in Altair (Re:Creators) profile

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Altair is so powerful she has an abstract existence unique to herself. OvO

 

[Elizhaa]

Altair is so powerful she has an abstract existence unique to herself. OvO

Looks like there won't be any type 4 since the thread for addition is concluded:

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/2238401

 

[Phoenix821]

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Conceptual_Manipulation

Type 4 of this I believe.

 

[Elizhaa]

I guess Rimuru Tempest win via Absorption and FRA.

So, voting for Rimuru

 

[Elizhaa]

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Conceptual_Manipulation
Type 4 of this I believe.

Phoenix821, it is not about Conceptual Manipulation (type 4), it was about abstract existence

 

[Phoenix821]

>Type 4 abstraction
You mean 1 or 2?

type 1 altair herself is a type 4 concept

 

[Elizhaa]

Phoenix821, sorry, you were right.

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/2294154

In any case, Rimuru still can absorb since she has type 1 abstract existence.

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

Phoenix821, sorry, you were right.
https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/2294154

In any case, Rimuru still can absorb since she has type 1 abstract existence.

the thread was debunked

 

[Lancer45Man]

Altair is a Type 1 Abstract that exists as a Type 4 Concept (Aka Lesser Realist Abstract) in the form of an Idea on a 2-B Scale. Basically her Abstraction is spread across a Multiverse of undefined size where everyone who has perceived her will keep Abstraction alive. Rimuru affected Type 2 Abstracts, they are vastly different than Type 1.

Edit: And what he'll absorb is just a Physical Image/Hollogram as Altair has no true body but exists as a Physical Image

 

[Elizhaa]

Altair is a Type 1 Abstract that exists as a Type 4 Concept (Aka Lesser Realist Abstract) in the form of an Idea on a 2-B Scale. Basically her Abstraction is spread across a Multiverse of undefined size where everyone who has perceived her will keep Abstraction alive. Rimuru affected Type 2 Abstracts, they are vastly different than Type 1.

@Lancer45Man, the definitions, basically, are the same thing except Type 2 grant you Regenerationn thanks to it. I think that you just defined Type 2 Abstract Existence which Altair (Re:Creators) looks to have.

Type 1: Exists purely as an abstraction. These characters lack a true physical form, and affecting them requires the ability to affect directly the abstraction itself, because eventual physical manifestations are merely avatars.

• Examples: Apocalymo (Digimo), Madoka Kaname (Puella Magi Madoka Magica)

Type 2: Embodies an abstraction, and can be resurrected or regenerate indefinitely thanks to it. Destroying the abstraction is required to permanently kill those characters, but they can still be affected without directly altering it.

• Examples: The Seve Great Demon Lords (Digimo), many Demons from Shin Megami Tensei

 

[Dragopentling]

Altair is a Type 1 Abstract that exists as a Type 4 Concept (Aka Lesser Realist Abstract) in the form of an Idea on a 2-B Scale. Basically her Abstraction is spread across a Multiverse of undefined size where everyone who has perceived her will keep Abstraction alive. Rimuru affected Type 2 Abstracts, they are vastly different than Type 1.

@Lancer45Man, the definitions, basically, are the same thing except Type 2 grant you Regenerationn thanks to it. I think that you just defined Type 2 Abstract Existence which Altair (Re:Creators) looks to have.
Type 1: Exists purely as an abstraction. These characters lack a true physical form, and affecting them requires the ability to affect directly the abstraction itself, because eventual physical manifestations are merely avatars.

• Examples: Apocalymo (Digimo), Madoka Kaname (Puella Magi Madoka Magica)

Type 2: Embodies an abstraction, and can be resurrected or regenerate indefinitely thanks to it. Destroying the abstraction is required to permanently kill those characters, but they can still be affected without directly altering it.

• Examples: The Seve Great Demon Lords (Digimo), many Demons from Shin Megami Tensei

In terms of capabilities, how well or poorly can Rimuru fare against Type 1 AE?

 

[Lancer45Man]

Except Altair Exists as the Abstraction itself. She Exists as an Idea not an Embodiment of an Idea.

And no they aren't the same thing. That's the entire point of Creating types for Abstract Existence. Type 1 is where you exist as the Abstract Itself. Type 2 is where you exist as the embodiment of the Abstract. To kill Type 2 you need Conceptual Attacks but even regular normal attacks can harm/damage them. To even harm type 1 you need Conceptual Attacks.

 

[Lancer45Man]

Veldanava created Type 1 Abstracts such as Light and Darkness afaik and Rimuru Scales to him. But Creation Ôëá Destruction so don't know if he can destroy Type 1. Even then, I don't see how he can affect an Abstraction that exists on a 2-B scale of Undefined size.

 

[Elizhaa]

@Lancer45Man, sorry, I just saw my mistake.

 

[Lancer45Man]

It's cool

 

[Elizhaa]

@Lancer45Man, thanks!

 

[Eganergo]

Can't altair just use outline origin to make Rimuru back to his original slime form?

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

Can't altair just use outline origin to make Rimuru back to his original slime form?

yes

 

[Elizhaa]

Rimuru's conceptual attack looks to be Absorption (Can absorb conceptual beings)

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

He had that cause he absorbed an angel but we have determined angels are type 2 abstracts now though, angels aren't tangible, they are pure energy, however they merely keep reviving when killed, you don't need concept manipulation to affect them just to perma-kill them.

As for Rimuru's concept manipulation, he should be able to destroy concepts, Veldanava created everything which includes the spirits, and a new spirit will eventually be born that will destroy the world, erasing everything:

""A spirit is… "In nothingness power finds its fill. That is a holy spirit. The great holy spirit is the source of power. Among these, light and darkness, the two great spirits. Who came to exist at the same moment as the world. But, the world was without form, a ephemeral existence. Light and shadow, darkness and the light. Two existences that shall never interweave. One day, the great spirit time was born. The child of light and darkness. And thus the world began to move. The moving world spun, without purpose, around itself. Inside the flowing currents of life and death, Earth, Water, Fire, Wind, and Sky―these five great spirits were born. And since then, these were the great eight spirits. Until the light consumes the world, erasing darkness. Until a new spirit is born, erasing all. Life and death, heralding the coming end of the world"

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

altair is a 2B concept and this is 2C rimuru so concept destruction will not work against her