Rimuru VS Altair

[Elizhaa]

altair is a 2B concept and this is 2C rimuru so concept destruction will not work against her

Concept Destruction is a hax so it would still affect Altairs

 

[Elizhaa]

Celestial Pegasus, Rimuru Tempest looks to have Conceptual Manipulation (Type 2) then

 

[Elizhaa]

Can't altair just use outline origin to make Rimuru back to his original slime form?

yes

No quite, Rimuru does have Causality Manipulation resistance which should cover this. I do believe that he has resistance to time manipulation though.

Targeted Reversal (Outline Origin brings a character to his/her beginning)

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

altair is a 2B concept and this is 2C rimuru so concept destruction will not work against her

Concept Destruction is a hax so it would still affect Altairs

it will not kill her though you need 2B concept destruction to kill her

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

Can't altair just use outline origin to make Rimuru back to his original slime form?

yes

No quite, Rimuru does have Causality Manipulation resistance which should cover this. I do believe that he has resistance to time manipulation though.
Targeted Reversal (Outline Origin brings a character to his/her beginning)

outline is plot manipulation,time manipulation is just a bonus.It works by removing plot twists and turning the target back to the begining of the plot

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

I mean that would just be returning 1 rimuru back to begining, several others still exist, including in another universe.

 

[Dragopentling]

whelp I'm casting vote for Rimuru for Nedge's explanation.

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

Altair has 2B range so she can find rimuru true self

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

With teleportation, you need to kill all of them at once, which altair can't do.

 

[Eganergo]

I mean that would just be returning 1 rimuru back to begining, several others still exist, including in another universe.

As it is a plot manipulation, wouldn't 1 rimuru back to beginning and lost its power create a paradox that will result in the other Rimuru to perish?

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

I mean that would just be returning 1 rimuru back to begining, several others still exist, including in another universe.

As it is a plot manipulation, wouldn't 1 rimuru back to beginning and lost its power create a paradox that will result in the other Rimuru to perish?

rimuru has type 1 acasuality

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

With teleportation, you need to kill all of them at once, which altair can't do.

altair can just use outline orgin on the main rimuru

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

This looks never ending, at this point i am leaning towards inconclusive since neither can permanently put down the other.

 

[Eganergo]

If no one debunk @Setsuna words i think Altair win via outline origin.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

If Rimuru has Type 2 Conceptual Manipulation he absolutely curbs Altair. You don't need 2-B range to kill Altair if you enter Type 2/1 Conceptual Manipulation, since you're targeting the fundamental idea of "Altair-ness". However, targeting individuals and not just overarching concepts like "light-ness" with Type 2 or 1 need to be proven, as that level of conceptual attacking is unbelievably strong.

 

[Elizhaa]

yesNo quite, Rimuru does have Causality Manipulation resistance which should cover this. I do believe that he has resistance to time manipulation though.
Targeted Reversal (Outline Origin brings a character to his/her beginning)

outline is plot manipulation,time manipulation is just a bonus.It works by removing plot twists and turning the target back to the begining of the plot

Rimuru have Causality Manipulation (Has complete manipulation over the law of causality) this could interfere with Plot Manipulation so that won't work.

 

[Der_Wehrwolf]

With teleportation, you need to kill all of them at once, which altair can't do.

altair can just use outline orgin on the main rimuru

This wouldn't work. If Rimuru only has Parallel Existence then that might be the case. Rimuru's Multiple Parallel Existence is pretty much a combination of Parallel Existence (amongst the myriad of Rimuru, there is 1 main Rimuru) and Multiple Existence (amongst the myriad of Rimuru, all of them are main Rimuru). Multiple Parallel Existence have the superior traits of the latter while also having the easy-to-use of the former. Altair would need to use Outline Origin on all existing Rimuru if she wants to win that way

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

@Setsuna All the clones are rimuru, as long as one exist, the others will come back, he previously only had 2 clones, one he used to fight and another in imaginary space, if the one fighting died, he would still come back cause the one in imaginary space existed, but if the one in imaginary space was the one to die, it would come back cause the one fighting existed, they are all connected through soul corrider, which does this:

"A "Soul Corridor", huh. So all my memories will transcend time and space and are accumulated within you. So, in other words, as long as you exist, I am immortal."

Getting rid of the "main" rimuru doesn't really help cause they are all rimuru. Which is why i am saying teleportation doesn't help unless altair has the range to nuke all of them at once.

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

If Rimuru has Type 2 Conceptual Manipulation he absolutely curbs Altair. You don't need 2-B range to kill Altair if you enter Type 2/1 Conceptual Manipulation, since you're targeting the fundamental idea of "Altair-ness". However, targeting individuals and not just overarching concepts like "light-ness" with Type 2 or 1 need to be proven, as that level of conceptual attacking is unbelievably strong.

here is the thing her concept is spread across a 2B SCALE so you need 2B concept destruction to kill her.She is a 2B concept

 

[Lancer45Man]

When OP decided to make this match

 

[Assaltwaffle]

@Setsuna

No you don't. Type 2 targets the fundamental, beyond and governing reality aspect of the character. It is targeting the fundamental conceptuality of the target itself, which will bend reality to the change that is made to the concept over any distance.

Type 2 and Type 1 both have this property.

 

[Lancer45Man]

However, targeting individuals and not just overarching concepts like "light-ness" with Type 2 or 1 need to be proven, as that level of conceptual attacking is unbelievably strong.

But has Rimuru done this?

 

[Elizhaa]

If Rimuru has Type 2 Conceptual Manipulation he absolutely curbs Altair. You don't need 2-B range to kill Altair if you enter Type 2/1 Conceptual Manipulation, since you're targeting the fundamental idea of "Altair-ness". However, targeting individuals and not just overarching concepts like "light-ness" with Type 2 or 1 need to be proven, as that level of conceptual attacking is unbelievably strong.

here is the thing her concept is spread across a 2B SCALE so you need 2B concept destruction to kill her.She is a 2B concept

@Setsuna tenma, this is not how it. In general, abilities like these work as long characters shared the same Dimensional Tiering and in this case, they are at a 4-D tier. So concept destruction works.

 

[Der_Wehrwolf]

Also. Looking up past threads, there were some arguments that since Outline Origin spreads out as some kind of omnidirectional wave, then Rimuru would have the mean to deal with it. He can, for example, make the wave miss him by altering probability with Nyarlathotep, making the wave itself disappear with Mephisto or Azazel, etc

 

[Elizhaa]

However, targeting individuals and not just overarching concepts like "light-ness" with Type 2 or 1 need to be proven, as that level of conceptual attacking is unbelievably strong.

But has Rimuru done this?

Yes

 

[Elizhaa]

Also. Looking up past threads, there were some arguments that since Outline Origin spreads out as some kind of omnidirectional wave, then Rimuru would have the mean to deal with it. He can, for example, make the wave miss him by altering probability with Nyarlathotep, making the wave itself disappear with Mephisto or Azazel, etc

@Der Wehrwolf, this is another way that he could deal with it

 

[Lancer45Man]

When? Inb4 He absorbed Angels and Demons. That's not the same thing being said here.

 

[Elizhaa]

When? Inb4 He absorbed Angels and Demons. That's not the same thing being said here.

Conceptual Manipulation (Type 2 or 3) would give the conceptual attack which Rimuru Tempest qualifies

 

[Assaltwaffle]

@Nedge

What concepts has Rimuru attacked?

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

I don't think he has type 1 or 2 .

Only type 3 since in the future a spirit will be born that erases everything which includes the other spirits who birth caused their respective elements to exist, ie time coming to exist because the spirit of time was born.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

Alright, Type 3 is restricted to whatever it has shown to encompass, so it is limited by that 2-C range.

 

[Elizhaa]

I don't think he has type 1 or 2 .
Only type 3 since in the future a spirit will be born that erases everything which includes the other spirits who birth caused their respective elements to exist, ie time coming to exist because the spirit of time was born.

I agree. Assaltwaffle, I believe this statement by Celestial Pegasus what concepts Rimuru Tempest can attacks. In any case, Type 3 beats Type 4 Conceptual Manipulation

 

[Assaltwaffle]

@Nedge

Not necessarily. Type 3 and 4 are bound by what they have shown to encompass since neither are beyond reality. For the case of effecting a Type 4 conceptual, 3 and 4 are perfectly equal. If you are trying to target a character with Type 3 it is restricted by the range the original feat showed, which isn't 2-B in range.

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

so who's winning

 

[OpMasada]

Nobody even voted yet. Well, one or two did, but their votes were debunked.

 

[Dragopentling]

well rip...my vote was debunked even though I stated why, but ehh, it's fine.....though I feel like this thread will likely go necro because no one can come to enough mutual conclusions and/or agreements regarding this matchup.

 

[Elizhaa]

@Nedge
Not necessarily. Type 3 and 4 are bound by what they have shown to encompass since neither are beyond reality. For the case of effecting a Type 4 conceptual, 3 and 4 are perfectly equal. If you are trying to target a character with Type 3 it is restricted by the range the original feat showed, which isn't 2-B in range.

I agree with your points, Assaltwaffle. So, I am switching my vote to inconclusive for now

 

[GLHF22]

Hey everyone! I'm new in here, i m just register this day, hope we will become familiar
im 15yo so forgive me if my english is poor and correct me if my grammar wrong

I think Altair cannot defeat rimuru since none of her abilities will work on him even absorbtion, if we assuming Altair can absorb rimuru She will gain no power or abilities from absorbing rimuru's clone because Ciel is here and he can cut soul corridor and left the clone powerlesss when rimuru is absorbed and rimuru potentially get resistance to her absorption, and can rimuru get all of Altair abilities if he absorb altair even if she can surviving it?
Can Rimuru use Turn Null to Altair until she become fodder and seal her? and i want to ask what is Nuclear dimension? Turn Null is infinite energy that come from Nuclear dimension and i have no idea what it is

 

[OpMasada]

Altair's abilities will work on rimuru, some of them he has no resistance to,

Rimuru will only gain her abilities if he absorbs her completely or manages to cut off few body parts and absorb them

Turn Null is unknown, other than it's energy from an unknown dimension.

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

It doesn't seem like rimuru has any resistance to his powers getting copied.