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Rimuru VS Altair
- Thread starter ZacharyGrossman273
- Start date
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I thought Holopscion couldn't be copied?
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Sirius has it so I don't see why it would be immune.ZephyrosOmega said:
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Wait, who is winning?
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With Sirius, she was created with her own holopscion with the same powers. Technically it wasn't copying, I believe.Assaltwaffle said:
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I've no ******' idea.ZacharyGrossman273 said:
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No one, atm. Right now they both try to absorb/copy and we don't know who wins first.ZacharyGrossman273 said:
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Already voted inconclusive a while ago.
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Yeah, i'm leaning towards incon as well.
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It's not just first, it's also "how much can they take" and "can they even put each other down permenantly".
Edit: Because of that I'll also vote Inconclusive.
Edit: Because of that I'll also vote Inconclusive.
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incon
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Inconclusive here as well
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Well, that's 7, y'all. 24 hours begins.
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Inconclusive FRA.
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Also inconclusive, as they both lead with it and we're back to the same issue.GLHF22 said:
Incon FRA
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I think no, Rimuru will spam All of his abilities, which meansZephyrosOmega said:
Susanoo : Will Guarantee the first hit, Turn Null : Will drain 50% of her life support, Mammon : Will steal her abilities, Chaotic Fate : Will make any defends meaningless, Cthugua : Will make his attack go beyond space-time, Mephisto : Will make any counter attack into illusion and after that when altair lost most of her power and abilities COOK will Altering her body so she will regenerate/resurrec/come back in her dead state unless she can get all of her power and abilities that have been lost or stole
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Unlike Altair, Rimuru has Time Travel - instantanious with thought acceleration. He can make copies of himself without any real limit, and Altair isn't fast enough to destroy them all before he panics and runs away where she can't get him (past), and then get rid of her, for example by killing her creator before she was made.
Moreover Altair has limited "existence". When Sirius destroyed her body she had to use Sirius' "existence" to live on in phisical world. So even if Rimuru's "Soul Consumption" wouldn't destroy her concept, she wouldn't be able to affect phisical world anymore.
Plus Rimuru also has "Puppeteer" - instant mind control - and Altair never fought against mind manipulation.
Moreover Altair has limited "existence". When Sirius destroyed her body she had to use Sirius' "existence" to live on in phisical world. So even if Rimuru's "Soul Consumption" wouldn't destroy her concept, she wouldn't be able to affect phisical world anymore.
Plus Rimuru also has "Puppeteer" - instant mind control - and Altair never fought against mind manipulation.
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@Szmiit
Uh
1. Rimuru has no idea who her creator is, and even if he did I don't think that would even work. Altair surpassed the yoke of her world and became an independent conceptual existence sustained on the idea of "Altair". Killing her creator in the past wouldn't deal with her in the now or the future.
2. What? She absolutely doesn't need a body. Her "body" is just a physical image, actually, and she can't even by harmed naturally. Selesia even blatantly says as much. When Sirius absorbed her, she absorbed everything about her. She became the very idea of "Altair", which is why it almost killed her. Would you like to know how much body body contributes to her existence? Here is her information being deleted (which is more than body, by the way). Now she's back.
3. It isn't exactly in-character for Rimuru to go with Mind Control. Even if he did, he would need to leave her sitting around without actually finishing her to fully defeat her. Also, Altair has other ways of killing Rimuru; it's not like he's the only one with answers, thus people have voted inconclusive.
Uh
1. Rimuru has no idea who her creator is, and even if he did I don't think that would even work. Altair surpassed the yoke of her world and became an independent conceptual existence sustained on the idea of "Altair". Killing her creator in the past wouldn't deal with her in the now or the future.
2. What? She absolutely doesn't need a body. Her "body" is just a physical image, actually, and she can't even by harmed naturally. Selesia even blatantly says as much. When Sirius absorbed her, she absorbed everything about her. She became the very idea of "Altair", which is why it almost killed her. Would you like to know how much body body contributes to her existence? Here is her information being deleted (which is more than body, by the way). Now she's back.
3. It isn't exactly in-character for Rimuru to go with Mind Control. Even if he did, he would need to leave her sitting around without actually finishing her to fully defeat her. Also, Altair has other ways of killing Rimuru; it's not like he's the only one with answers, thus people have voted inconclusive.
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"Altair surpassed the yoke of her world and became an independent conceptual existence sustained on the idea of "Altair". Killing her creator in the past wouldn't deal with her in the now or the future."
I seriously doubt this, and I'm sure I never got an actual response for my acausality downgrade for Altair in that thread (One that didn't focus on me saying linear time, instead of my actual argument), but honestly I'll just take it for how it's being accepted as I'm done with that thread.
Anyway, if in-character Rimuru uses information analysis and gets the first move, I'm leaning more towards him.
But I won't vote for now.
I seriously doubt this, and I'm sure I never got an actual response for my acausality downgrade for Altair in that thread (One that didn't focus on me saying linear time, instead of my actual argument), but honestly I'll just take it for how it's being accepted as I'm done with that thread.
Anyway, if in-character Rimuru uses information analysis and gets the first move, I'm leaning more towards him.
But I won't vote for now.
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First thing this version of rimuru did was use statistics reduction and life manipulation to make yuuki lose half his ability to fight, then he proceeded to absorb him.
But yea his style of fighting is usually focused on analyzing his opponents and then responding based on that. So he doesn't have a set thing he starts with, though he does tend to absorb stuff a lot.
All ultimate skill users can analyze their opponents, conceal info about themselves from being analyzed, and give fake info about themselves, Rimuru who has ciel is basically all those on steroids.
Anyway, i think this match has already gone inconclusive.
But yea his style of fighting is usually focused on analyzing his opponents and then responding based on that. So he doesn't have a set thing he starts with, though he does tend to absorb stuff a lot.
All ultimate skill users can analyze their opponents, conceal info about themselves from being analyzed, and give fake info about themselves, Rimuru who has ciel is basically all those on steroids.
Anyway, i think this match has already gone inconclusive.
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Inconclusive FRA
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@Assaltwaffle
1) She is independent now, but she wasn't always, and she can't time travel (othervise she would just save her creator). If she was just erased from timespace continuum by stopping her from even beeing created she wouldn't survive.
2) By her "body beeing destroyed" I don't it beeing nuked or something, but something like that thing that happens when she has to stop fighting because the "Restorating Force" of the world is making her glich. She is in a constant battle between her "Acceptance" and "Restorating Force". Soul Consumption thansforms Souls into pure energy - what would probably just take away her power comming from "Acceptance".
3) He used it against Clayman for lolz. And even if he wouldn't be able to kill her, he would be able to corrupt her soul or make her go insane. Like with that king he tortured only in reverse.
1) She is independent now, but she wasn't always, and she can't time travel (othervise she would just save her creator). If she was just erased from timespace continuum by stopping her from even beeing created she wouldn't survive.
2) By her "body beeing destroyed" I don't it beeing nuked or something, but something like that thing that happens when she has to stop fighting because the "Restorating Force" of the world is making her glich. She is in a constant battle between her "Acceptance" and "Restorating Force". Soul Consumption thansforms Souls into pure energy - what would probably just take away her power comming from "Acceptance".
3) He used it against Clayman for lolz. And even if he wouldn't be able to kill her, he would be able to corrupt her soul or make her go insane. Like with that king he tortured only in reverse.
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@Szmiit
1. Becoming independent from normal causality at any point is all that matters. Once you're not relying on your past, it doesn't matter what happens to you or your parent/creator in the past, since you're no longer reliant on it.
2. EoS Altair is not fighting for acceptance anymore and has bent the rules of the universe to her will. The universe stated that Setsuna couldn't exist. Her existence already broke this rule and she was fate-bound to kill herself to remedy it. Altair broke that rule and made a new world in which the previous rules of the universe don't apply. Also unless the battle happens in the re:CREATORS verse, Altair doesn't have the Restorative Powers or Acceptance limiting her.
2b. It doesn't matter if her soul is destroyed, turned to energy, or otherwise. She doesn't need it. She already got completely erased and came back, and, once again, she is only reliant on perceptions of her. If you can't directly alter those perceptions in an abstract way, destroying her body or soul won't matter.
3. For lolz is not "in a serious battle against someone who can kill me". Even if he did manage to make her go insane, would he leave such a powerful foe, or would he try to destroy her? If he does the latter, she comes back, knowing his powers, and takes countermeasures. But if he spams it that is still a way he can win, which is why this is inconclusive and not just a win for Altair.
1. Becoming independent from normal causality at any point is all that matters. Once you're not relying on your past, it doesn't matter what happens to you or your parent/creator in the past, since you're no longer reliant on it.
2. EoS Altair is not fighting for acceptance anymore and has bent the rules of the universe to her will. The universe stated that Setsuna couldn't exist. Her existence already broke this rule and she was fate-bound to kill herself to remedy it. Altair broke that rule and made a new world in which the previous rules of the universe don't apply. Also unless the battle happens in the re:CREATORS verse, Altair doesn't have the Restorative Powers or Acceptance limiting her.
2b. It doesn't matter if her soul is destroyed, turned to energy, or otherwise. She doesn't need it. She already got completely erased and came back, and, once again, she is only reliant on perceptions of her. If you can't directly alter those perceptions in an abstract way, destroying her body or soul won't matter.
3. For lolz is not "in a serious battle against someone who can kill me". Even if he did manage to make her go insane, would he leave such a powerful foe, or would he try to destroy her? If he does the latter, she comes back, knowing his powers, and takes countermeasures. But if he spams it that is still a way he can win, which is why this is inconclusive and not just a win for Altair.
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@Assaltwaffle
1) She lives in artificial world with a copy of her creator. If she was really "independent from normal causality" she would save her properly.
2) She has advantage in sub-real worlds. If that would be the place of their encounter, and Rimuru really would want to kill her he would change battlefield by Time Travel. He doesn't start a battle unless he is sure he will win or really really desperate.
2b) She came back because there was a spare soul she took over - Sirius. She doesn't really mass produce them.
3) That was not "in a serious battle against someone who can kill me" - everyone in the room considered Clayman "disgracefull weakling".
3b) Altair isn't really known for taking countermeasures - she would take some but not enough. The whole thing about Rimuru is that if you don't kill him the first time you see him, the next time he absolutelly outclasses you. People were scarred of him not besause of his power but because of his abnormal growth. Right now he posesses Niggurath with SKILL CREATION. At this point he could recreate Holopsicon-type powers just by watching.
+With his self-constructing abilities, and totalt cult of his person he gets from everyone in his country, he could totally rework himself into a concept on after eating Altair's body like he did when he ate Veldora.
my voice for Rimuru
1) She lives in artificial world with a copy of her creator. If she was really "independent from normal causality" she would save her properly.
2) She has advantage in sub-real worlds. If that would be the place of their encounter, and Rimuru really would want to kill her he would change battlefield by Time Travel. He doesn't start a battle unless he is sure he will win or really really desperate.
2b) She came back because there was a spare soul she took over - Sirius. She doesn't really mass produce them.
3) That was not "in a serious battle against someone who can kill me" - everyone in the room considered Clayman "disgracefull weakling".
3b) Altair isn't really known for taking countermeasures - she would take some but not enough. The whole thing about Rimuru is that if you don't kill him the first time you see him, the next time he absolutelly outclasses you. People were scarred of him not besause of his power but because of his abnormal growth. Right now he posesses Niggurath with SKILL CREATION. At this point he could recreate Holopsicon-type powers just by watching.
+With his self-constructing abilities, and totalt cult of his person he gets from everyone in his country, he could totally rework himself into a concept on after eating Altair's body like he did when he ate Veldora.
my voice for Rimuru
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@Szmitt
Rimuru using time travel is out of character unless he needs to, for anyone else reading this, allow me to clarify that he's not reluctanct to time travel, just not going to do it unless needed.
Also, rimuru is not ainz, he's not hesitant to fight someone because he doesn't know if he'll win or not. If someone wants to fight, he'll fight.
Rimuru using time travel is out of character unless he needs to, for anyone else reading this, allow me to clarify that he's not reluctanct to time travel, just not going to do it unless needed.
Also, rimuru is not ainz, he's not hesitant to fight someone because he doesn't know if he'll win or not. If someone wants to fight, he'll fight.
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@OpMasada He was allways reluctant to enter battlefield and preffered to throw in his subordinates beforehand to test opponent, and when he fought against Hinata the first time he was really scared because this was the first battle in a long time when he didn't know probability of victory.
He faked her out, run away, prepared himself, and won, despide her taking everything human race had to offer during secound battle.
He faked her out, run away, prepared himself, and won, despide her taking everything human race had to offer during secound battle.
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- Thread starter
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Yeah this can be added as incon now, I think.
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@Szmiit
1) make sense , i assume altair cannot break her world system? while Rimuru ca
Because Assalt said " The universe stated that Setsuna couldn't exist." and she can't broke it? so what about Her Reality Warping and Law manipulation? is that really universal scale?
3b) um ... actually Rimuru has all the abilities in the series so it's easy for him to make or copy abilities
+) like when he eat seraphim and reconstruct himself to type 2 abstract existence @Assalt
2b. If the Rimuru succeeds in absorbing her soul, Rimuru will have all of her abilities and strength including his countermeasure and yes I think if the Rimuru does this he will win
3) I think we cannot assume that they know that if their opponent has the ability to kill him/her because they have no knowledge of each other except they analyze
I will wait for more input so that this will become clear
1) make sense , i assume altair cannot break her world system? while Rimuru ca
Because Assalt said " The universe stated that Setsuna couldn't exist." and she can't broke it? so what about Her Reality Warping and Law manipulation? is that really universal scale?
3b) um ... actually Rimuru has all the abilities in the series so it's easy for him to make or copy abilities
+) like when he eat seraphim and reconstruct himself to type 2 abstract existence @Assalt
2b. If the Rimuru succeeds in absorbing her soul, Rimuru will have all of her abilities and strength including his countermeasure and yes I think if the Rimuru does this he will win
3) I think we cannot assume that they know that if their opponent has the ability to kill him/her because they have no knowledge of each other except they analyze
I will wait for more input so that this will become clear
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The universe of re-creators is not a normal one it is a world where people can create universes so its system is not likley to be low 2C in scale,it is likely 2B
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being superior to a 2C does not make you 2BGLHF22 said:
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His turn null gives him enough energy to create worlds, as in several parallel worlds, tens of thousands of times over.
Veldanava created several parallel worlds and the system which governs them, rimuru has tens of thousands of times the energy needed to do what veldanava did.
Veldanava created several parallel worlds and the system which governs them, rimuru has tens of thousands of times the energy needed to do what veldanava did.
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Yes and that's what gives him a Likely 2-B Key
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This has already been added, why is this still open?
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