Rimuru Tempest (Web Novel) Match Ban

[The_Causality]

I think people need to calm down a bit

Indeed many of Tensura's partisant's arguments are wank (if not dozen of people would not be there and literally all of those thread will not be messed up), but it's also the fault of the intense spam of the God Tier which can easily be wanked and NLF'ed. now we just to calm down those battle and go with other characters, do not veil the face, the battles which involve the god tier are wanked so the lesson to understand is just to stop that and go ahead with other characters.

 

[Elizhaa]

The 4-D Ultimate Skills Resistance's argument look agree, to me, for now.

For this point:

>Rimuru vs Riven of a Thousand Voices. Tl;dr, no one on Rimuru's side of that debate read the page initially and then tried, and failed, to debunk it using Destinypedia, a source that everyone who is knowledgible on Destiny says is inaccurate in regards to lore.

I read the message and other wiki are not truly treated much valid evidence as sometime they are wrong. I still treat most quote text from the primary source as valid, though.

I mean even you stated something are not valid:

Hl3 or bust

Destinypedia is not reliable according to multiple kknowledgeables, at least for feats and powers

 

[Eganergo]

Outlier or not?

I'm waiting for 1B Hax for Rimuru. OvO

 

[GLHF22]

Outlier or not?

I'm waiting for 1B Hax for Rimuru. OvO
1B? Why not 1A XD (Our Spaghetti GOD Will come into the series XD)

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

@Neo

Perhaps i do have a grudge against the verse. Perhaps i don't. It's entirely irrelevant and no, i definitely have material to throw back at you. Regardless, I was already trying to do that @Knight.

@Nedge

No. Literally everyone i've talked to about it, who knows decent amounts about Destiny, says that Destinypedia isn't reliable for what people care about on this wiki. Basically every feat of power or hax is taken from the Grimiore cards and the games themselves.

 

[Overlord775]

Shown me, @Overlord775?

You mean, other than that you belive that all Rimurus resitances are all 4-D out of his resisting 2 4-D hax and of the "Non attacks" that can somehow bypass the opponent not having an hitbox ?

also, you know, Rimuru vs Riven of a Thousand Voices in general ?

also also, you know, removing a loss of Yuuki when literally nobody agreed with your arguments for it to be removed ?

@GLHF

About that, i had asked a rather knolagable fate supporter and he told me it worked like that

Not really my fault i was given missleading information

was also going based on this comment of Monarch, though i guess he either changed his mind or the comment wasn't ment to be taken as litteral

 

[Elizhaa]

@Hl3 or bust, I have not problem with that statment. In any case, I was waiting for the CRT to be over regarding the Tier 2 thread to be concluded because by itself 4-D looked contradictory to me at that time as I explained in the thread. Well, it is concluded so Riven may stomp or may not stomp. Well, both characters got updated, in any case. So, it is up to anyone willing to make a rematch for a proper conclusion.

@Overlord775, I don't believe it that anymore couple days of ago when it brought to my attention and like I told I am willing to change my views if my points were incorrect.

The other is an unrelated point as it has nothing to to do with this topic.

 

[Takaokaoka]

No. Just because wanking happens doesn't make it grounds for banning the character key. Additionally, I refer to the points given above.

 

[KnightOfSunlight]

Still, something should be done about this.

Maybe something akin to Marvel and DC comics, where a page is created to define the exact limits of each character's abilities. Or a heavy emphasis on reminding people that these characters are limited.

And for the lack of research, I'm sad to say that most of the problems with that are hard to fix. The best I can offer is reminding others yourself to always research the other side before drawing a conclusion.

 

[Junkoposter]

Thing is, its not the wanking thats the main problem still is a big problem tho ovo, its that every thread involving these characters turns into a flamewar

 

[KnightOfSunlight]

Well, it's started by the wanking and the lack of research. If we take the fuel from the flamewars, they don't occur, ya dig?

 

[PsychoWarper]

No. Just because wanking happens doesn't make it grounds for banning the character key. Additionally, I refer to the points given above.

At this point thats not even the main reason people want the ban, its just a large contributing factor.

 

[Elizhaa]

@Junkoposter, I don't think a flamewars ever happen and nothing that major that break our Site Rules happened. There haven't been issue like trolling or others. The worst is think the wanking points but is usually adressed or reprimanded if severe enough.

To me, it seems like the main problem is some taking the match results or arguments to personally and as someone who used to think like this point and grow past it, I can tell it is definitely not worth one's health.

I would suggest as solution as one not particpating in match that could cause one's stress like I know many I know have done or growing emotionally stronger to not take the match personally.

 

[Junkoposter]

eh, I'm just giving my personal opinion Rimuru threads still do down the drain fast tho ovo

 

[Takaokaoka]

-snip-

The only issue is that reactive evolution opens the door for Rimuru having no definite limit in terms of scaling. If you want to really stop "wanking", one part of a possible solution would be to limit Reactive Evolution to only scale up to the max dimensional feat Rimuru has presented and limit it to only working on beings that do not exceed the verse tier. Obviously, this isn't perfect, but it would solve a huge portion of the issues with Rimuru. (However, I would say that having defined conditions that would allow Rimuru to scale up to other 2-Bs such that it is still in line with Reactive Evolution being canonically defined as something that allows Rimuru to constantly become stronger. If those specific conditions aren't met then Reactive Evolution would stick to the specific limitation that I suggested above.)

 

[Elizhaa]

Well, it's started by the wanking and the lack of research. If we take the fuel from the flamewars, they don't occur, ya dig?

The main problem I think I am seeing are blankets comments like Rimuru fans, Tensei Fans, Medeka fan are wanking, blah, blah, blah...

Though, I take no offenses because I don't take them personally, these comments are similar to level of DC vs Dragon Ball and Naruto vs Bleach, for example, that could cause flamewars so I will call them out at lightness as I think it can cause bad flamewars. I have seen threads being closed for these types of fanbase's comments so I will contact an admin or evaluating staffs to close the thread if I see it gets out of hand.

 

[KnightOfSunlight]

I can see that @Elizhaa, but it hasn't quite reached that level, yet. I think I can reach that level, but if we take a level of action to prevent it, then we can stop a ban on matchups.

The thing is, it's better to have the well defined limits than to not, especially for a verse so easy to end up wanking.

 

[Elizhaa]

@KnightOfSunlight, we do have define limit like fanbases attacks which can report worthy or ban worthy depending on the context.

We also Site Rules guidelines for ill-manners, offensive, derogatory, etc. comments which be report-worthy or ban-worthy at worst.

There are case where the specific person causing the "wanking" or giving bad extremely bad arguments in many verse thread can be reported in Rule Violation to get warning, sometime banned for a period of time, or banned from the verse match particpation in some case like probation.

So, if something really gets out of hand then I would recommend using the Rule Violation threads.

The main action to prevent these bad cases is to use Rule Violation Thread even if one doesn't take personal offenses. From my experience, they work well in popular fandom controversional threa like in some intense Naruto CRTs for bad-manner/rule-breaking people to improve their behaviors.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Been watching this for a long while, and well, before I get into this, I'm neutral. If he is banned, then finally Tensura will be forced to get more non-Rimuru matches. If it isn't... well, it is what it is.

But something I wanted though point out is just how... weird this wiki has carried itself about this verse. I mean, the TSSDK supporters (or what's left) have actively and outright stated they wanted less Rimuru matches. However, nearly single match I've see about Rimuru has bee from no TSSDK supporters.

However, whenever the supporters (again, what's left), try to argue it, it spirals into chaos. Not sure what bothers me more, the fact that I've seen people say "But every TSSDK matches are no fun" and have people agree with it, only to see a match involving Rimuru the same day by one of the people who kudos'd that comment. It's pretty disappointing, because the verse itself isn't even that bad. It's just one or two characters are continuously spammed, and any other attempt to make a non Rimuru match gets ignored. So, the verse just gets a perpetual negative stigma. Hell, we've even gotten jabs for making too many CRTs. I won't deny that, I was likely a large factor in this, but I'm still somewhat a newbie here. Still learning the ropes, and now I've tried making larger CRT's instead of multiple small ones.

I've seen that apparently we've wanked the resistances. I can't confirm or deny it, despite that I actually believed that they were 4D along with many others, because well... there's no one into the verse to help us confirm or deny this. CP is pretty busy with other LN/VN verses, so it's left to us to try to figure out and interpret what it should be with what knowledge we have.

Anyways, that's all I had to say I guess. Whether he gets banned or whatever happens is fine for me.

 

[Antvasima]

So what are the TL;DR conclusions here?

 

[OpMasada]

TL;DR: Inconclusive

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Can somebody provide a summary please?

 

[Blackcurrant91]

Why don't we give Rimuru the Iihiko treatment and add a note to his profile regarding it? it will at least give people in the threads something to refer to when refuting arguments like 'Muh 4-D ultimate skill user resistances'

 

[OpMasada]

Okay. Can somebody provide a summary please?

Argument for is saying that it should be banned because he's wanked in fights

Argument against is saying that it shouldn't because characters shouldn't be banned just because wank.

 

[KnightOfSunlight]

Eh, I'd say the ban argument is more "because of the wank, these threads turn into flame wars".

I still don't think that the threads should be banned though.

 

[Wokistan]

I see the bigger issue as how the profile is apparently misleading which results in the character getting wanked as opposed to just that people wank the character. If we were to match ban just for a character being wanked we'd end up banning a lot more people than just Rimuru from being used, and wank itself isn't even exactly an objective term. If more specification should be put on the profile as to the abilities and limitations of this character, I would support holding off on matches for them as that takes place, but it would be for that reason.

 

[KnightOfSunlight]

I agree with Wokistan. It sounds like a reasonable enough solution, and it takes my suggestion of adding specification as to the limits of these characters.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

I agree. If others were aware of a note or something we could avoid these things.

 

[Zaratthustra]

I think the best bet would be to create a page for the verse where it would explain and specify the abilities or/and their limitations.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Notes about what specifically though? I wouldn't say there are things on the profiles that aren't back up by evidence or is misleading really, so not sure what notes would be for.

Like imaginary space not being 2-A? Something about Rimuru's reactive evolution? Not really sure.

I don't frequent Rimuru matches since they are overdone, i mean in general slime fans aren't the ones who keep spamming them, other ppl do, so those ppl will have to provide what the specific issues are so we can address them.

I already made a blog which has some general concepts about the verse, so the characters abilities aren't just coming out of thin air.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Actually you're right, never mind.

 

[GLHF22]

Rimuru ability is just being exaggerated in VS match since in the series author never really explain those abilities, the profile itself is not Bad tho, its just him having vague but strong hax and this make it very easy to be exaggerated.

I think it uneccessary to make note in His profile he have every ability in the series and thats mkaes him able to deal with almost all situation its like "if i cant argue with this hax then i Will argue with that hax" you just have so many options when you on Rimuru side and maybe thats the problem we have since people think we wank him because we have another argument if this argument doesnt work but yeah him having 4D for all resistance is a wank and already rejected by CP before, maybe people use 4D resistance as argument before CP rejected that

im not see this on Medaka level wank tho, like lihiko Resist planetary mind hax with recognition despite his feats in Resist mind manip is very very low, and thats happen before people make His entire Arsenal 4D, maybe thats also the trigger of Slime have 4D resistance because at that time Medaka and slime in heated VS match, "If Medaka can have her entire Arsenal 4D because of 1 feats why not?" Or so in my opinion.

 

[Antvasima]

It seems like other staff members have this situation under control, so I will unsubscribe to this thread.

 

[The_Causality]

im not see this on Medaka level wank tho, like lihiko Resist planetary mind hax with recognition despite his feats in Resist mind manip is very very low, and thats happen before people make His entire Arsenal 4D, maybe thats also the trigger of Slime have 4D resistance because at that time Medaka and slime in heated VS match, "If Medaka can have her entire Arsenal 4D because of 1 feats why not?" Or so in my opinion.

Nobody asked to compare "how wanked tensei is compared to other franchise", it shouldn't be used to justify the intense wank on this verse noticed into all of the threads, that's a pretty bad exemple to support your argumentation. the constats is, the verse is wanked so now we'll stop that and everyone which contribute into will stop that alongside God tier's NLF battle creation. nothing less, nothing more. And Iihiko is another bad exemple since he doesn't resist, but the skills doesn't reache him/Power Nulled, not the same.

The thread can be closed if everyone has understood the conclusion, no more God tier battle (a pause) and Tensei's supporter need to stop the wank, that's all.

 

[NeoSuperior]

@The Causality

You are correct that one wank doesn't justify another wank. However sometimes I couldn't help but notice logic applied to Slimeverse for CRTs that were rejected, to be approved for other verses (e.g. affecting "abilities" themselves being wanked to be equivalent to interaction/manipulation of abstracts(type 1) or even concepts).

And what's even worse wank, and this isn't only limited to be unfair to Slimeverse but rather all "written" and drawn/animated/live action fiction, is the wank of games and game mechanics. I have seen a lot of cases where game mechanics are wanked to the heavens giving Tier 1 hax (I am looking at you, fate-verse), but then on the other hand limitations like visible projectiles that prove an ability to not be instantanous are dismissed as "being mere game mechanics, so they don't count" to justify the ability to be instantanous instead. Cherry-picking basically and doesn't at all comply with the general rule of minimalism and low-balling that's otherwise applied on VS Battles. But I suppose that's something to be discussed in its own thread at another time.

 

[Elizhaa]

A note already exists on Rimuru's profile which link to @Celestial Pegasus's blog explaining the general concept of verse. The note has been present for months when I remaded the Rimuru's WN profile which I added to help explain the general Concept of the verse.

I am not trying to jump to conclusion but I think the note pretty much solve all the main problems if there are wank. CRT or questions and answered thread can be made if there are confusion. Even a message in the verse discussion thread can help with answers and likewise messaging a verse knowledgeable member/supporters about a topic. In fact, I am planning one for a relevant weakness but it is off-topic.

In conclusion, I see no needed for outright match-up bans as I think CRT, questions answers thread, and discussion thread message, and contacting a verse knowledgeable members/supporters are much better solutions.

 

[Blackcurrant91]

I think the things brought up as to why Rimuru should be banned could be said about many other characters that have misinformation spread about them like Iihiko, Ywach etc.

 

[The_Causality]

@Neo If you think that sometime, the wiki make Double standard between two verse, you should probably make a thread in Q/A about, i don't know what verse make "affect an ability = Type 1 abstract/conceptual interaction" but it's pretty wrong

Dunno about game mechanics, i don't follow those kind of franchise so i can't proprely answer you, same for specifics exemple without context.

But yea, this thread can be closed now.

 

[GLHF22]

Funnily enough people who agreed to this is those who participate in recent thread and not on slime side, is this a grudge against the verse?

 

[Blackcurrant91]

Even if it is, it doesn't make the debate/their opinions less relevant and it looks like its not getting banned so it probably doesn't matter.