Rimuru Tempest vs Riven of a Thousand Voices

[Paul_Frank]

I vote we close the thread before it becomes like fiamma vs dovahkiin

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Riven doesn't have info analysis resistance though, just means Rimuru's precog is useless, and regardless of that still haven't gotten an answer to how good his soul hax is, if it's not above Rimuru's resistance, then this should be an easy win for slimeboy regardless of precog or info analysis due to his resistances and myriad of other abilities like absorption or resistance negation.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

Again, see my prior reasoning. The Vex are unable to properly analyze or simulate Paracausal beings until Destiny 2. But Rimuru can.

Except you are wrong and no one who knows what they're talking about agrees with you

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

Riven doesn't have info analysis resistance though, just means Rimuru's precog is useless, and regardless of that still haven't gotten an answer to how good his soul hax is, if it's not above Rimuru's resistance, then this should be an easy win for slimeboy regardless of precog or info analysis due to his resistances and myriad of other abilities like absorption or resistance negation.

Destiny profiles are bad like that

Also, Take still works, and no one has proven otherwise

 

[Rocker1189]

Destiny profiles are bad like that

Also, Take still works, and no one has proven otherwise

You are basically just saying people are wrong t at this point lol.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

Because they are

Wpuld you like me to sugar coat it or something?

 

[Silicon_Neuroma]

Riven takes this with relative ease to be honest. I think a lot of the arguments for Riven are being heavily misinterpretated. I will post a more thorough reasoning and adress some of the stuff above in a later comment.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Take is mind hax right? We have already been over this, it doesn't work, and if it's ability which sends Rimuru to ascended realm or whatever, Rimuru resists being teleported or sent away or whatever you wanna call it.

Wow this thread is over 400 posts, pretty ridiculous.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

No, a lot of the arguments for Rimuru aren't being refuted at all.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

Law Manipulation, Reality Warping, Existence Erasure, Mind Manipulation, and Possession (Like Oryx, Riven has gained the ability to Take others and make them her own servants. Riven has also shown the ability to create throne worlds with Mara Sov, utilizing the Sword Logic in the Ascendant Plane. Capable of possessing several Techeuns in the Dreaming City at the same time)

These are all at a 2-B potency trillions of times above anything in Slimeverse

Taking isnt BFR either. You aren't sent anywhere. It is instant and on-thought

 

[Yobo_Blue]

Riven Supporters: *Exist*

Rimuru Supporters:

 

[NeoSuperior]

I don't know about Take, really. This is what HI3 claimed it does:

Take is

"I think and The Darkness makes you work for me"

But this is what I found on Destinypedia:

The power to create Taken is granted by the Darkness itself, and is bestowed only to its most formidable servants. The process of Taking involves summoning a portal or aperture that rips an individual out of the universe and transports them to an unknown location within the Ascendant Realm. There, the Taken being encounters an unknown entity (presumably the Darkness itself), who offers them a way to overcome their former weaknesses. The Taken being then returns to their original universe with new paracausal abilities and a compulsion to serve the one that Took them.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

Destinypedia is not reliable according to multiple kknowledgeables, at least for feats and powers

 

[NeoSuperior]

Law Manipulation, Reality Warping, Existence Erasure, Mind Manipulation, and Possession (Like Oryx, Riven has gained the ability to Take others and make them her own servants. Riven has also shown the ability to create throne worlds with Mara Sov, utilizing the Sword Logic in the Ascendant Plane. Capable of possessing several Techeuns in the Dreaming City at the same time)

These are all at a 2-B potency trillions of times above anything in Slimeverse

Taking isnt BFR either. You aren't sent anywhere. It is instant and on-thought

I strongly doubt that. If it contained all that then it shouldn't just be a hax ability escpacially since it includes existence erasure. It should be an "attack" that might even put Riven at actual 2-B level, or should be some sort of "2-B with Taken" addendum, in which case the ability would have to be either restricted for High 4-C matches, or would require Riven to fight 2-B enemies.

 

[ZackMoon1234]

What even are the feats of Take

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

@Neo

No. Taking can't cause destruction on a 2-B scale.

 

[NeoSuperior]

2-B Existence Erasure is still an attack with 2-B equivalent Energy potency (else it wouldn't work against 2-B durability and it would therefore not be 2-B). If that's really the case then it needs to be either restricted or else every battle that doesn't prevent it from being used by the other partye via blitzing or Power Null is a guaranteed stomp for Riven.

 

[WHYNAUT]

2-B Existence Erasure is still an attack with 2-B equivalent Energy potency (else it wouldn't work against 2-B durability and it would therefore not be 2-B). If that's really the case then it needs to be either restricted or every battle that doesn't prevents its use via blitzing or Power Null is a guaranteed stomp.

No profile does this, it's called "being a smurf". Rimuru doesn't have his absorption listed as 3-A either, does he?

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

It's not a 2-B attack. Simple as that. It is solely hax, Existence Erasure does not yield any energy

Also good eye, this is, in fact, a stomp

Congratulations

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

@Jaw

There are actually 12 votes for Riven, not 10

 

[NeoSuperior]

Seriously? Really? And no one actually bothered bringing this up at the beginning? Would have saved us a lot of time actually.

No profile does this, it's called "being a smurf". Rimuru doesn't have his absorption listed as 3-A either, does he?

There is an enourmous difference between a hax ability, that's part of the standard battle movements, that can kill higher than the user's own AP but can be countered via various other hax, and a "hax ability" that might as well be called a universal, activated via thought "I win button" that hax stomps almost anyone within the same AP range.

Actually, there might be one individual I can think of who might possibly take Riven on...

EDIT: or maybe not

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

Multiple people said that Riven stomped a long time ago

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

Seriously? Really? And no one actually bothered bringing this up at the beginning? Would have saved us a lot of time actually.

There is an enourmous difference between a hax ability, that's part of the standard battle movements, that can kill higher than the user's own AP but can be countered via various other hax, and a "hax ability" that might as well be called a universal, activated via thought "I win button" that hax stomps almost anyone within the same AP range.

Actually, there might be one individual I can think of who might possibly take Riven on...

Get used to it pal. This happens a lot

 

[WHYNAUT]

This is a stomp in Riven's favor since Rimuru doesn't have anything to put her down permanently and Riven can just take control of Rimuru at the beginning of the fight and make Rimuru kill himself.

 

[Takaokaoka]

2-B Existence Erasure is still an attack with 2-B equivalent Energy potency (else it wouldn't work against 2-B durability and it would therefore not be 2-B). If that's really the case then it needs to be either restricted or every battle that doesn't prevents its use via blitzing or Power Null is a guaranteed stomp.

No profile does this, it's called "being a smurf". Rimuru doesn't have his absorption listed as 3-A either, does he?

The absorption Rimuru has at this key can overcome mid godly Regen.


(Although whether or not that means anything...)

 

[WHYNAUT]

That doesn't matter since Riven has no regen, she revives because of a causal loops that works on type 4 acausals and a 4D being and the Ascendant plane.

 

[NeoSuperior]

Rimuru got Mid-Godly Regen, but I do not think it could stop 2-B EE. 2-B Law Manipulation and 2-B Reality Warping should be more than enough though.

 

[Takaokaoka]

That doesn't matter since Riven has no regen, she revives because of a causal loops that works on type 4 acausals and a 4D being and the Ascendant plane.

Absorption won't kill, but it could still BFR. And absorption opens up reactive Evo. So Rimuru essentially equalizes to Riven, and resists.

 

[NeoSuperior]

Yea, but aborption would be slower than that broken thought based 2-B EE, 2-B RW and 2-B LM attack.

 

[WHYNAUT]

Riven has enough range to affect Rimuru from inside his stomach and this would mean that he gets ocrrupted from the inside.

There's still the fact that Riven will just mind hax Rimuru before he can do anything.

 

[NeoSuperior]

No, the mindhax would still fail for the reasons stated earlier. What would work are all the other broken abilities that come with Taken that I wish someone had mentioned from the beginning.

The range wouldn't be the issue though, since Infinite Prison automatically Power Nulls anyone trapped within.

But it's impossible for that to happen since the Infinite Prison and/or absorption are slower than thought based "I win button". And Rimuru wouldn't open with it anyway.

 

[Jaw201]

Thay information comes from Destinypedia, and is contradicted by lore iirc. Regardless, no one knowledgeable on the topix agree with Destinypedia

Again, this is wrong, Quria himself says that Paracausal systems are incredibly problematic. Its one of the reasons why he was unable to win against Oryx even though he understood sword logic. See here

 

[NeoSuperior]

And why exactly is this absurd ability not even listed in the "notable attacks" section?

 

[Jaw201]

Yea, but aborption would be slower than that broken thought based 2-B EE, 2-B RW and 2-B LM attack.

Even if Rimuru stops time, which massively increases his speed? Even if Riven resist time stop, the speed amplification Rimuru gets in time stop, means that Rimuru is significantly (stated to be a million times) faster than he was without the amplification, wouldn't this provide Rimuru the speed needed to move faster than Riven is able to think?

 

[NeoSuperior]

Yes but if it's both of their opening move then they'll use it at about the same time. If that happens Rimuru loses instantly.

Moreover Rimuru would be "distracted" because of the passive mindhax, which would buy Riven enough time (i.e. a single moment) to use the instant win button.

 

[Jaw201]

Shouldn't imaginary Space prevent Rimuru from being stomped just from being taken? I thought we already decided that. They aren't connected, so it can't reach the Rimuru in Imaginary Space.

 

[Jaw201]

This is a stomp in Riven's favor since Rimuru doesn't have anything to put her down permanently and Riven can just take control of Rimuru at the beginning of the fight and make Rimuru kill himself.

Again, unless she has range to reach Rimuru while he is in imaginary space, then it doesn't end the fight. Rimuru can't even be targeted while inside the imaginary space, because his clones aren't connect to him. (Due to being Separate independent existences) (unless you are attacking his concept, at which point it doesn't matter.)

 

[Jaw201]

Law Manipulation, Reality Warping, Existence Erasure, Mind Manipulation, and Possession (Like Oryx, Riven has gained the ability to Take others and make them her own servants. Riven has also shown the ability to create throne worlds with Mara Sov, utilizing the Sword Logic in the Ascendant Plane. Capable of possessing several Techeuns in the Dreaming City at the same time)

These are all at a 2-B potency trillions of times above anything in Slimeverse

Taking isnt BFR either. You aren't sent anywhere. It is instant and on-thought

Again, if the logic for the 2-B potency is based off of Oryx's timeline corruption "feat" with the Vex, then it was already debunked. Could you at least clarify? Otherwise, this reasoning for saying its at a 2-B level is invalid.

 

[NeoSuperior]

Hmm... yea maybe. Rimuru would need to catch her off-guard though, something that might be doable considering the difference in intelligence.

I'll be honest though, at this point I just want this thread and the headaches it causes to end. And I don't think I am the only one. We are already at over 400 posts. I think that makes it longer than the one with Rimuru and Meng Hao and that one also ended with everyone just pretending that the thread doesn't exist.

Also it feels like this would have to go into a completely new direction and ultimately cause the thread to have another 400+ posts, until somehow someone notices ANOTHER case of

"This one skill has a side-effect I only just remembered again! Sorry not to mention it earlier!"

 

[WHYNAUT]

Riven does have enough Range to affect Rimuru from inside his stomach. And I agrre that this thread should be given up on since it seems to be a stomp.