Rimuru Tempest vs Riven of a Thousand Voices

[Hl3_or_bust]

Omfg Neo

The whispers are the ******* Sea of Screams

Riven just has regular mind hax, and even if it somehow doesn't work (which it should) Riven just Takes, whoch is more than enough to win

 

[NeoSuperior]

We already had discussed this. "Takes" opens with space-hax. Even if The Darkness "entices" Rimuru, it would fail to do so unless it got the soulhax and even then it would only work on the Rimuru in front and not the one in imaginary space. Reactive evolution would trigger and then Rimuru would seal Riven.

Actually, would Taken even be usuable within stopped time? Rimuru would open with that.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

You are literally wrong And ignoring everything about Taking and Riven

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

This isn't going anywhere.

 

[NeoSuperior]

Why are you going back to that? I am sure we already discussed this?

The power to create Taken is granted by the Darkness itself, and is bestowed only to its most formidable servants. The process of Taking involves summoning a portal or aperture that rips an individual out of the universe and transports them to an unknown location within the Ascendant Realm. There, the Taken being encounters an unknown entity (presumably the Darkness itself), who offers them a way to overcome their former weaknesses. The Taken being then returns to their original universe with new paracausal abilities and a compulsion to serve the one that Took them.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

Ok so

Clone stops time. This does nothing to Riven

Riven mind ***** clone. There is literally no reason that this shouldnt work.

Riven then realized that the Rimuru in front of her is not the real one, and Takes

Ciel tries to affect the fake Rimuru and gets killed by Taken Blight

Real Rimuru can't do anything at this point

 

[Rocker1189]

Ciel...getting killed? Ciel is a skill, not a person.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

Don't be a smart ass

You know what I mean

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

How does taken work? And if Riven's mind hax which is passive from what i have heard doesn't work due to not having the soul hax to affect Ciel which is within Rimuru's soul, how does Riven get Taking off before Rimuru does anything? Since Rimuru has precog and info analysis which works on sight.

 

[Rocker1189]

Actually I really dont. How would Ciel get killed.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

To kill Ciel, you'd need to kill Rimuru's soul.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

Take is

"I think and The Darkness makes you work for me"

The soul shit is dumb and makes no sense at all

Precog and info analysis are totally uselesss

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Don't be a smart ass
You know what I mean

Could you relax? I understand being frustrated and running in circles, but that doesn't help.

 

[Rocker1189]

The soul shit is dumb and makes no sense at all

That is not an argument.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

Actually I really dont. How would Ciel get killed.

Because literally erbeyone im this thread, CP incuded, is acting like Ciel is a separate being

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Mind hax doesn't work though i already explained why, i noticed he has type 4 acausality so precog doesn't work, but what about info analysis?

Ciel is a supergenius capable of analyzing the energy which created the multiverse, though i don't see info analysis resistance on Riven's profile so regardless it should work.

 

[Rocker1189]

Because literally erbeyone im this thread, CP incuded, is acting like Ciel is a separate being

Well Ciel is a skill, a sentient skill but a skill not a "person".

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

That is not an argument.

Needing to soul hax someone to mind hax them isnt an argument either because that doesnt logically work

 

[Rocker1189]

Needing to soul hax someone to mind hax them isnt an argument either because that doesnt logically work

That is how it works in tssdk,and it is specifically made that way to protect the mind from mind hax.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Like CP said, if there isn't a resistance to info analysis, this match is as good as done from the start.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

But it is though? That's not even an argument, Ciel is Rimuru's other personality, a sentient being which exists within Rimuru's soul.

Saying no without an explanation is just ignoring how Rimuru's abilities work.

 

[NeoSuperior]

I think we really might need a seperate thread to discuss this distinction between Mind Manipulation and Soul Manipulation.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Just like how you say we ignore Riven's abilities.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

@Neo Not really, think the distinction is already clear, the question here is whether Riven's soul hax is good enough to affect Ciel, which i haven't gotten an answer to yet.

Needing soul hax to mind hax Rimuru is just a mechanic of tensei and how Rimuru's abilities work since he has a separate personality in his soul which can take control of his body if incapacitated.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

These are things we've been saying, but no one seems to believe it until CP says it. Why?

 

[Rocker1189]

tbh I think CP explained it better is why lol/

 

[NeoSuperior]

@CP: Oh, ok.

@MRB: The power of a green username and the reputation from 30000+ edits, I suppose. And what Rocker said, I guess. I am more concentrated on the LN version so I try to be careful not to mix up the different versions when its about the WN, while CP can confidently speak about the contents, considering he created most of the profiles in the first place.

 

[KageSakaDark]

Huh, I think grace is almost over...

 

[NeoSuperior]

I am not sure the grace can just be taken as is. The vote count changed considerably and one of the questions from the very beginning still hasn't been resolved yet: What is Riven's soulhax level?

A lot of votes have been cast for "Riven wins via mindhax". It was under the assumption that mindhax works on Rimuru's soul and Ciel, but as CP (and many others at prior points in this thread) just stated, it needs a corresponding soulhax to work. Actually, I have yet to hear anything about soulhax for destinyverse, really. Riven's profile got it listed, but only something about soulfire or something and no one seems to want to elaborate...

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

The Vex, which are literally infinitely superior to Ciel, can't predict or analyze the Taken, and Riven is a Taken

 

[Sheska444]

Mind hax doesn't work though i already explained why, i noticed he has type 4 acausality so precog doesn't work, but what about info analysis?

Ciel is a supergenius capable of analyzing the energy which created the multiverse, though i don't see info analysis resistance on Riven's profile so regardless it should work.

Im fairly certain riven doesn't have any info analysis resistance nor skill to analyse ppl either .

 

[NeoSuperior]

The Vex, which are literally infinitely superior to Ciel, can't predict or analyze the Taken, and Riven is a Taken

I think Jaw201 addressed that already.

I'm going to debunk a claim that Wokistan made at the start of the thread. He claimed that because the Vex, a Nigh-omniscient super computer couldn't analyze the Darkness, which is the source power for Taking, Rimuru therefore wouldn't be able to analyze Riven. However, this is categorically false. The only reason why the Vex were unable to analyze the Darkness or the Light is because they are unable to simulate acausal concepts and entities. However, Rimuru is able to analyze Acausal/paracausal beings, entities, and concepts. So Rimuru would be able to analyze Riven and the Darkness as well. Which puts Rimuru at a significant advantage over the Vex even though the Vex are significantly more intelligent.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

He did not

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

You have any proof he didn't?

 

[Yobo_Blue]

You have any proof he didn't?

You can't prove a negative.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

See, this is why I stick to my High 2-A matches. Much simpler.

 

[Paul_Frank]

This is obviously going to go no where

Neither side will concede to the others points so I say just leave everyone's votes wherever they are and just fra

 

[NeoSuperior]

Info analysis =/= Intelligence

I don't want to restart this debate about false equivalences...


Acausality type 4 works against precog, but not against info analysis.

 

[Jaw201]

The Vex, which are literally infinitely superior to Ciel, can't predict or analyze the Taken, and Riven is a Taken

Again, see my prior reasoning. The Vex were unable to properly analyze or simulate Paracausal beings during the time when they tried to analyze the Taken and Oryx. But Rimuru can, which means Rimuru already bypasses the Vex in terms of his analysis abilities.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

Thay information comes from Destinypedia, and is contradicted by lore iirc. Regardless, no one knowledgeable on the topix agree with Destinypedia