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Revisions/Upgrade for Fantastic Four (RT Salvaging)

We can use this as a general revision thread for four of them, yes, but we can't use Respect Threads. Mainly because they lack sources often and the context around it.

I should have mentioned that to you earlier, my bad.
 
Confluctor said:
We can use this as a general revision thread for four of them, yes, but we can't use Respect Threads. Mainly because they lack sources often and the context around it.
Click to expand...
If they're sourced we can use feats FROM them, actually.

So yeah we can try to get relevant scans off these, this is fairly helpful
 
Expected arguments with scans or directly a sandbox/blog with the new things...disappointing.

Just by seeing the first phrase I can say that the respect thread is not too good for us. ''I won't be using any feats...1. That causes Sue to faint'' - these should count too as her feats may be limited in some way (stamina, range, situations).
 
I haven't clicked on the link yet, but if it's sourced, it should be good enough. Most older RTs don't have sources pain
 
And yeah by the looks of these they're sourced. I'll move this to general discussion, we can get a decent collection from these and then propose the final list.
 
Zaratthustra said:
Expected arguments with scans or directly a sandbox/blog with the new things...disappointing.

Just by seeing the first phrase I can say that the respect thread is not too good for us. ''I won't be using any feats...1. That causes Sue to faint'' - these should count too as her feats may be limited in some way (stamina, range, situations).
Click to expand...
I get what you're saying but since I made the RT's to me a feat that causes a character to faint would mean the feat pushed the character past their normal limit and Sue mostly fainted in the 60's and 70's
 
Stormy01 said:
I get what you're saying but since I made the RT's to me a feat that causes a character to faint would mean the feat pushed the character past their normal limit and Sue mostly fainted in the 60's and 70's
Click to expand...
Yeah that's valid, although you should probably list them since you can get peak feats from em :V
 
Confluctor said:
I haven't clicked on the link yet, but if it's sourced, it should be good enough. Most older RTs don't have sources pain
Click to expand...
Since I made the RT's I can provide any context for any of the feats if
The_Impress said:
Yeah that's valid, although you should probably list them since you can get peak feats from em :V
Click to expand...
I'll look for them and list them but how would the Fantastic Four constantly growing stronger due to the cosmic radiation they absorb from the atmosphere affect earlier limitations?
 
Stormy01 said:
I'll look for them and list them but how would the Fantastic Four constantly growing stronger due to the cosmic radiation they absorb from the atmosphere affect earlier limitations?
Click to expand...
It means probably that their original selves downscale from High 6-C, since that's a modern-day rating

Not that severely though since the power gap isn't that apparent
 
We should probably do something about her 5-D power source/force fields. higher dimensional manip
 
Here are some instances of Sue fainting:

- In Fantastic Four #25 Sue faints after Hulk stretches her force field too much by jumping with it high above the city

- In Fantastic Four #28 Sue faints after shielding herself and her teammates from a nuke

- In Fantastic Four #36 Sue faints after stopping the Pogo Plane mid-flight and cushions it on her force field

- In Fantastic Four #41 Sue faints after a mind-controlled Thing punches her force field

- Marvel Two in One #9 (1975) Sue faints after two hits from a bloodlusted and Mind-controlled Thor

- in Fantastic Four #167 Sue faints after mind-controlled Hulk and Thing punches her force field a few times

- In Fantastic Four #215 Sue faints after Blastaar bursts her force field

- In Fantastic Four #223 Sue faints after containing a possessed Franklin Richards for an extended period of time.

- In Fantastic Four #249 Sue faints after a full-confidence Gladiator punches her force field multiple times.

- In Fantastic Four #266 Sue faints after an extended fight with a mind-controlled Thing

- In Silver Surfer #15 (1987) Sue faints after she shields a ship from going through a black hole

- In Fantastic Four #375 Sue faints after Doom with 80% of a Watcher's power shatters her force field

- In World War Hulk #2 (2007) Sue faints after her force field takes several punches from WWHulk
 
The_Impress said:
It means probably that their original selves downscale from High 6-C, since that's a modern-day rating

Not that severely though since the power gap isn't that apparent
Click to expand...
I can't really speak on the rest of the FF but as someone who has thoroughly went through Sue's reading order multiple times I can say that her powers have grown significantly and consistently over the decades and she's currently noticeably stronger than her classic version

Examples of this include...

In FF #41 a mind-controlled Thing's punch causes Sue to faint but in FF #266 her force field blocks multiple attacks from a mind-controlled Thing, in FF #356 Thing hurts his hand punching her force field, in FF #45 (1998) Sue casually blocks multiple punches from a mind-controlled Thing and in 2019's FF #18 an exhausted Sue blocks a punch from a bloodlusted Thing.

In FF #203 Sue struggles to shield against Human Torch's Nova Flame but in #223, #341, #353, #500 and #583 Sue shields and contains it without any trouble.

In FF #215 Blastaar shatters Sue's force field and in #298 Blastaar amps via the Cosmic Control Rod and Sue blocks his blast in the same issue easily, again in Startling Stories: Thing (2003) and does it again in Fantastic Four (2013) #16 multiple times

It's also backed up by the fact that Sue couldn't turn invisible and use her force field at the same time but eventually she did it.

There have also been statements by characters that say Sue is stronger than before for example Blastaar says Sue's more powerful than he remembers in 2003 and they last fought in the late 90's

In FF #246 Sue's force field gets strained by a Doom-bot and she stuggles with expanding a force field in it's chest but in #287 under the same writer Sue casually handles a Doom-bot's attacks and even states Doom doesn't have access to an energy source that can break her force field and she proceeds to casually expand a force field in it's chest
 
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Sue's ******* weird though since she also has really impressive feats old-timey era too.
 
Yeah. But I think she probably deserve a "at most" key. She still gets some regular high tiered feats
 
Either that or different keys for classic Sue and modern Sue, if those higher feats classsic Sue had were outliers.
 
Should be easy, once she used her forcef. to block a Herald level attack and never again had anti-feats with it, that's mordern Sue. If we take that route.
 
Idk that's too arbitrary. Her forceifleds aren't all she has to offer. Her other abilities also got improved, just at different rates
 
If I could rank Sue compared to her peak level based on how powerful she is

60's and 70's - C Rank (Has some good feats but with a lot of low ends and overall ineffectiveness)

80's - B Rank (Definitely better than before but still not the best)

90's - A Rank (Near her peak)

2000's - B Rank (She didn't necessarily get weaker, she just didn't make as much peak feats in the main FF books like in the 90's)

2010's - S Rank (From Hickman's run up to Secret Wars Sue was at her peak with loads of great showings with)

2018 - Current - Rank ??? (Currently Sue is pretty weird, she's mostly a beast in crossovers and I'd give her a S Rank based on them but Dan Slott the main FF writer keeps her passive and away from the action most of the time so it's hard to judge)
 
I would personally prefer to give her post secret wars a new key, but I can work your proposal too
 
Confluctor said:
I would personally prefer to give her post secret wars a new key, but I can work your proposal too
Click to expand...
Yeah it would make sense since the universe basically started in the 60's, got rebooted after Onslaught in the 90's and again after Secret Wars in 2015
 
I mean, Heroes Reborn got retconned fast, and Secret Wars was a soft reboot.

Don't see reason for it's significance
 
Actually can we use Fantastic Four 284 as the issue of differentiation? Her name change to Invisible Woman is typically where writers actually took her power more seriously iirc.
 
That should work better then. It's also in 85 - just as the modern ages of began to emerge (kinda)
 
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