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Abstractions makes sense to me as well.

So what, if anything, do we need to do based on her conclusions?
We still need some kind of summary regarding what we need to do here in order to get somewhat organised.
 
My responses may be out of order, but I'll do my best to address every issue here.

As for the motor boat thing, Jack was kidnapping Zoe, who Joe was very determined to save. It only makes sense that he'd be using the Boat's top speed.

Next, Heisenberg is noted by Miranda herself to be the strongest of the lords, as his compatibility with his Cadou Implant was by far the best. Urias is likely baseless upon looking back on it. Same applies to Swampman Jack.

As for Superhuman speed for Lycans and Molded, Lycans could have this rating through being able to jump several meters in a single bound, and through being able to aim-dodge gunfire. Molded being superhuman is likely baseless, but Peak Human should still apply, I think.

As for the fire calc, could the calculation be adjusted for Mold? If not, Ethan is still able to harm Jack with his knife, so such scaling is still theoretically possible.

I had a friend take a video of Ethan's interactions with arrows. The Lycan is two of it's steps away from Ethan. He can also block arrows with the LZ Anwserer in the same fashion, which would net higher results than the knife.

As for the LS issues, Lycans can easily throw Ethan several meters with one hand, and are also able to bust a decent size hole in a wooden wall, which should justify Wall level at the very least.

For Ethan's durability, I think it should be noted that Mutated Alcina doesn't use sharp force trauma, rather she uses Blunt Force Trauma. Her claws could be classed as piercing damage, or should be ranked similarly to knives, which are street level through cutting, rather than through blunt force like baseball bats and the like. He's clearly less resistant to sharp things, as he can easily tank being thrown around various foes in both games, but is always hurt by sharp things, like lycan and molded fangs and claws, Jack's shovel/paint roller/chainsaw and other such things. If you choose to not scale him to Alcina, then he should at least be scaled to Urias. (the pillar feats really needs calculating, and I've got scans for it.)

And in regards to the scaling chain and the tiers, that was more of a guideline of where I expected things to land and a way for me to keep them all separate.

I think I got everything.
@Abstractions
 
As for the motor boat thing, Jack was kidnapping Zoe, who Joe was very determined to save. It only makes sense that he'd be using the Boat's top speed.
Can you post the scene for everyone to rewiew?

As for Superhuman speed for Lycans and Molded, Lycans could have this rating through being able to jump several meters in a single bound, and through being able to aim-dodge gunfire.
Aim dodging would not net a rating like that, it just proves they are able to avoid where the person is aiming rather than the bullet itself.

If not, Ethan is still able to harm Jack with his knife, so such scaling is still theoretically possible.
Wouldn't that what you'd be arguing against here:
For Ethan's durability, I think it should be noted that Mutated Alcina doesn't use sharp force trauma, rather she uses Blunt Force Trauma. Her claws could be classed as piercing damage, or should be ranked similarly to knives, which are street level through cutting, rather than through blunt force like baseball bats and the like.

had a friend take a video of Ethan's interactions with arrows. The Lycan is two of it's steps away from Ethan. He can also block arrows with the LZ Anwserer in the same fashion, which would net higher results than the knife.
It would likely have to be calculated, and the cutting of the arrow looks fine, but it should be noted that in the video that your friend is still dodging just before the Lycan fires, it's well-timed aim dodging for the most part.

As for the LS issues, Lycans can easily throw Ethan several meters with one hand, and are also able to bust a decent size hole in a wooden wall, which should justify Wall level at the very least.
Assuming this just applies to the Lycans themselves, we know Ethan only weighs 75kg. This isn't particularly heavy, even when we suggest that they could easily lift twice the amount it would still be within human categories.

If you choose to not scale him to Alcina, then he should at least be scaled to Urias. (the pillar feats really needs calculating, and I've got scans for it.)
I don't necessarily see the sharpness factor as a refutation either, most characters tend to be weaker to cutting because it takes less force to cut someone with a knife than it does to do it with a blunt tool.

EDIT (12/26/21): I'll elaborate now that I meant for this comment to also apply to Ethan should you choose to apply it to Alcina, so his scaling to Jack or any other character physically would still be downscaled a decent amount.

As for scaling to Urias' AP in durability I don't know, my main issue with the idea is the fact that no other Lycan is on their level yet are still threats to Ethan, you'd have to make an exception with them not scaling to him.

I'll be away for a few days, so if others have input now would be the time to give it because I won't be able to respond. Thank you.
 
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Can you post the scene for everyone to rewiew?


Aim dodging would not net a rating like that, it just proves they are able to avoid where the person is aiming rather than the bullet itself.


Wouldn't that what you'd be arguing against here:



It would likely have to be calculated, and the cutting of the arrow looks fine, but it should be noted that in the video that your friend is still dodging just before the Lycan fires, it's well-timed aim dodging for the most part.


Assuming this just applies to the Lycans themselves, we know Ethan only weighs 75kg. This isn't particularly heavy, even when we suggest that they could easily lift twice the amount it would still be within human categories.


I don't necessarily see the sharpness factor as a refutation either, most characters tend to be weaker to cutting because it takes less force to cut someone with a knife than it does to do it with a blunt tool.

As for scaling to Urias' AP in durability I don't know, my main issue with the idea is the fact that no other Lycan is on their level yet are still threats to Ethan, you'd have to make an exception with them not scaling to him.

I'll be away for a few days, so if others have input now would be the time to give it because I won't be able to respond. Thank you.
@Wurm I'm sure you are busy but I'm putting this out there just as a reminder that the discussion is ongoing.
My apologies, I have a lot going on right now. I'll do my best to respond when I'm able.
 
Can you post the scene for everyone to rewiew?


Aim dodging would not net a rating like that, it just proves they are able to avoid where the person is aiming rather than the bullet itself.


Wouldn't that what you'd be arguing against here:



It would likely have to be calculated, and the cutting of the arrow looks fine, but it should be noted that in the video that your friend is still dodging just before the Lycan fires, it's well-timed aim dodging for the most part.


Assuming this just applies to the Lycans themselves, we know Ethan only weighs 75kg. This isn't particularly heavy, even when we suggest that they could easily lift twice the amount it would still be within human categories.


I don't necessarily see the sharpness factor as a refutation either, most characters tend to be weaker to cutting because it takes less force to cut someone with a knife than it does to do it with a blunt tool.

EDIT (12/26/21): I'll elaborate now that I meant for this comment to also apply to Ethan should you choose to apply it to Alcina, so his scaling to Jack or any other character physically would still be downscaled a decent amount.

As for scaling to Urias' AP in durability I don't know, my main issue with the idea is the fact that no other Lycan is on their level yet are still threats to Ethan, you'd have to make an exception with them not scaling to him.

I'll be away for a few days, so if others have input now would be the time to give it because I won't be able to respond. Thank you.
All right, lets see.

I can't really find a clip of the boat scene, but even a basic explanation of the situation should back up Joe going at top speed.

Nothing on the Arrow cutting.

Yeah, upon more debate, Ethan should partially scale to Jack. Even being able to minorly hurt him should give him scaling, even if it requires significant downscaling.

Alcina should be scaled to Jack, as both seem to be similarly powerful

As for Lycans being superhuman in speed, we only have an instance of the Lycan grabbing and killing the old man at the start of the game before he could properly react. It's likely not worth much. We also have them keeping up with Ethan, who has the aforementioned arrow timing.

As for the Lycans still being able to hurt Ethan, I'd argue that due to them mostly attacking with claws or teeth, sharp force trauma should be applied.

And I'll have to stand by the sharpness refutation, as Ethan tanks blunt force very well. IE: getting slammed through walls by Sturm, and getting hit by rubble from Heisenberg.
 
nice well I'll say this it should definitely be no trouble finding clips to use if that's still a thing you need. also good timing since we're gonna be getting Rose dlc later this year and it'd be good to have this finished by then
 
So what has been accepted here so far by our staff, and what currently needs to be evaluated?
 
All right, lets see.

I can't really find a clip of the boat scene, but even a basic explanation of the situation should back up Joe going at top speed.

Nothing on the Arrow cutting.

Yeah, upon more debate, Ethan should partially scale to Jack. Even being able to minorly hurt him should give him scaling, even if it requires significant downscaling.

Alcina should be scaled to Jack, as both seem to be similarly powerful

As for Lycans being superhuman in speed, we only have an instance of the Lycan grabbing and killing the old man at the start of the game before he could properly react. It's likely not worth much. We also have them keeping up with Ethan, who has the aforementioned arrow timing.

As for the Lycans still being able to hurt Ethan, I'd argue that due to them mostly attacking with claws or teeth, sharp force trauma should be applied.

And I'll have to stand by the sharpness refutation, as Ethan tanks blunt force very well. IE: getting slammed through walls by Sturm, and getting hit by rubble from Heisenberg.
@Abstractions

Can you help us out here please?
 
From what I've gathered

1. Pretty much everyone is going to get an upgrade of some kind in AP and Speed. We just need some calcs now.

2. Some new profiles are going to be made, for characters like Karl and Uraias

3. Ethan will be getting an upgrade in range, and he will also get more weapons added to his profile

I think that's it?
 
From what I've gathered

1. Pretty much everyone is going to get an upgrade of some kind in AP and Speed. We just need some calcs now.

2. Some new profiles are going to be made, for characters like Karl and Uraias

3. Ethan will be getting an upgrade in range, and he will also get more weapons added to his profile

I think that's it?
@Abstractions @DarkDragonMedeus @Colonel_Krukov @LordGriffin1000

What do you think about this?
 
Okay. Thank you for the reply. Do you think that you can help evaluate this thread anyway?
 
1 I don't mind them being upgraded so long as the feats are calced.

2. I don't mind new profiles.

3. Ethan already has Hundreds of meters with firearms, would that sniper rifle really upgrade his range?
Yes. The rifle would have to have more range then his hand guns or shot guns or assault rifles.
 
1 I don't mind them being upgraded so long as the feats are calced.

2. I don't mind new profiles.

3. Ethan already has Hundreds of meters with firearms, would that sniper rifle really upgrade his range?
Thank you for the reply. That seems to be what we should do here then.
Yes. The rifle would have to have more range then his hand guns or shot guns or assault rifles.
@LordGriffin1000
 
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Yes. The rifle would have to have more range then his hand guns or shot guns or assault rifles.
I know the rifle will give better range, I'm asking if it's range would change his current rating.

Currently, he's rated at Hundreds of meters with firearms but unless the rifle gives him kilometers in range, it's not really a change in the actual rating, just a description update that says his sniper rifle gives him increased range compared to his other weapons.
 
There are some new feats to have calculated, I think. In the Heisenberg boss fight, at 8:40 in this video, he creates a magnetic pulse that lifts all the metal in the area. Well, he begins to rotate it very quickly, and by 8:58 we can clearly see that some kind of vortex has formed, meaning he made some kind of tornado. I don't know how high this feat would get, but given how much metal it's throwing around, I think it should be pretty powerful.

Next, we look at Moreau's boss fight, and I think this provides some solid feats. Moreau is able to smash apart wooden structures by ramming in to them, meaning we can get a speed number and some pretty decent AP. He also destroys numerous bridges while you're fighting him. In this video at 13:48, he destroys a wooden structure. Right after that, at 13:44, he survives the combine explosion of a land mine and an explosive barrel. We can also see that he is small building sized at 14:48-15:02. (Further scaling for Ethan and low tiers. He can destroy Moreau's bio barriers with 5 knife slashes. To break these things normally, you have to use a pipe bomb, land mine, or explosive barrel. Really just any explosive.)

Finally, Lady D comes through with possibly the most impressive feats. In this video at 2:30, she destroys several stone pillars and a roof. At 4:53, she topples a small stone tower. It should be noted that all she destroyed was the actual tower base and walls, the roof seems to be at least intact when it falls. At 5:45, she smashes down one of the main walls at the top of the tower. At 6:18, she smashes some more of the roof. And to top it all off, she shatters two stone floors at 7:11. (Potentially four, but we'd need someone to go frame by frame to see those, as they were falling in that scene.)

In short, I think we can get some solid AP Upgrades for the lords, and by extension, Miranda and possibly the Bakers (specifically Jack)
 
Also got a video of Ethan's arrow cutting. Happens at 3:17. It looks like he missed at first, but then pieces of the arrow fly in front of the camera. The arrows stick in the wall when they hit it, and only break when hit with the knife/light saber. Any melee weapon will cut them, and this was the closest he could get before the lycan switched to melee.
 
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