Removing the Charizard Feat (Pokémon Downgrade)

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Yeah, I agree with removing it and not only because of the questionable accuracy but also because we, for whatever reason, assume Charizard can melt an entire mountain in a second or less? Where was that ever implied? It also assumes that flame thrower has several kilometers of range and can cover an area of several sq kilometers which seems iffy to say the least, but whatever.

Only addressing the Charizard feat, and yes, this was already asked before. And was also addressed.

Charizard in the statement was mentioned to do the feat with flamethrower, it’s signature attack. And flamethrower in the franchise has never been depicted as an attack that requires some set amount of time to do something beyond just a few seconds, leaving us no reason to assume the opposite here for Charizard.

 

[Gohanblanco217]

It's 7-A+ not High 7-A lol

I meant the feat was calculated as high 7-C lol

 

[StrymULTRA]

I meant the feat was calculated as high 7-C lol

That's Pupitar feat.

 

[Gohanblanco217]

That's Pupitar feat.

I know and there are Pokemons who are rated as 7-A via scaling to him

 

[StrymULTRA]

I know and there are Pokemons who are rated as 7-A by scaling to him

They're already 7-A from scaling from Charizard regardless. That's why they weren't edited yet

 

[Gohanblanco217]

They're already 7-A from scaling from Charizard regardless. That's why they weren't edited yet

Never mind then

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Only addressing the Charizard feat, and yes, this was already asked before. And was also addressed.

Charizard in the statement was mentioned to do the feat with flamethrower, it’s signature attack. And flamethrower in the franchise has never been depicted as an attack that requires some set amount of time to do something beyond just a few seconds, leaving us no reason to assume the opposite here for Charizard.

Has flamethrower ever lasted less than a good few seconds? I know it lasts for longer in games, and every instance of it in the anime that I recall also laster for at least 3 seconds I think? And, while it's superhazy, even that was the flamethrower being interrupted.

 

[StrymULTRA]

What's exactly different for that feat being 3 or more seconds? Even if it lasts 10 seconds (and that's the highest amount of seconds I can give for that) it's still a heat feat, it shouldn't differ for our standards anyway

 

[Armorchompy]

Eh, applying heat over time still means the heat you can output in a seconds is lower, making the AP lower as a result.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Still doesn't get my point. From how it describes it sounds that the melt is fast as that is an attack. We're talking about seconds, not minutes

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

It is true heat feats that are longer than a second use watts instead of joules.

 

[KieranH10]

well, any energy over time is technically measured in watts.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Well, regardless, I completely refuse to use higher than 5-10 seconds because common sense. Tho it's legimately the first time I hear such, any calc example?

 

[Armorchompy]

I don't have any on hand, but it is pretty basic logic.

 

[KieranH10]

Most calcs over time will use it.
The formula is simply
Watts = Energy / Time

 

[StrymULTRA]

Yeah, I was checking around online and yeah. So it's basically Joule per seconds / total seconds right?

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Yeah. I'm pointing it out since even assuming two seconds halves the results.

I do think 3 to 5 seconds should be it for flamethrower, it doesn't last that long normally. (Then again, it doesn't melt mountains normally)

 

[InfiniteSped]

Is the AP the energy they use in a second?

 

[StrymULTRA]

To make it simpler, the feat would be 790.31 Megatons with one second.

We should find the average timeframe for the flamethrower across the main core games to see which one is the appropriate timeframe imo.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Now that I think, using all the main games wouldn't be that much of a great idea, otherwise we'd need to make the calc anytime a new main core games gets out. We should use just Emerald's animation timeframe due of that statement being made around in a late Gen 3 game.

Using this it starts from 01:37:25 and ends at 01:40:65, making the timeframe of 3.40 seconds.

790.31 / 3.40 = 232.44 Megatons (aka x2.3244 times baseline 7-A)

Still not 7-A+ anymore, but as long 7-A isn't lost then idc

 

[Armorchompy]

gen 3 is like, the generation with the fastest animations tho

also the games were remade so if anything we should use the gen 8 animation i think

 

[StrymULTRA]

gen 3 is like, the generation with the fastest animations tho

also the games were remade so if anything we should use the gen 8 animation i think

Time to recalc the feat everytime a new game comes out.

In all seriousness tho, Gen 1 and 6 have the fastest ones.

 

[Armorchompy]

I mean Pokèmon generations use the same animations usually so it'd only be recalculating it every 2 to 4 years, which is a bit silly but not unrealistic. But also I think we should just use the most modern animation that is out right now and not worry about updating it whenever gen 9 rears its ugly head.

 

[RatherClueless]

Only addressing the Charizard feat, and yes, this was already asked before. And was also addressed.

Charizard in the statement was mentioned to do the feat with flamethrower, it’s signature attack. And flamethrower in the franchise has never been depicted as an attack that requires some set amount of time to do something beyond just a few seconds, leaving us no reason to assume the opposite here for Charizard.

I can casually dig a hole 1m3 large in half an hour. If someone now says "this man can dig a hole 10m3 large", does that mean I would also do this in half an hour because I have never shown to work on a hole for longer than that? Also, a flamethrower also has never been shown to have kilometers of reach last time I checked. So "it's a signature move, thus it can only be this way" really hold no water. If you can't make the assumption that it lasts longer than 3 seconds then the assumption has to be that it has the ability to cover entire mountains. So let me ask you. What is more likely based on what we have seen of the move flamethrower. That it can be used for longer than three seconds if needed or that it's maximum range and area of effect is actually thousands of times more than anything we have ever seen.

 

[StrymULTRA]

I mean Pokèmon generations use the same animations usually so it'd only be recalculating it every 2 to 4 years, which is a bit silly but not unrealistic. But also I think we should just use the most modern animation that is out right now and not worry about updating it whenever gen 9 rears its ugly head.

Meh, I think we should use the animation that was used in that specific setting rather than bothering to recalc that every 2-5 years, it's pretty much ridiculous. Using emerald animation not only makes things simpler but also makes things consistent in that setting.

 

[Armorchompy]

Meh, I think we should use the animation that was used in that specific setting rather than bothering to recalc that every 2-5 years, it's pretty much ridiculous. Using emerald animation not only makes things simpler but also makes things consistent in that setting.

Again we have a remake of the game so we really should use the Gen 8 animation.

 

[StrymULTRA]

And then use the Gen 9 when it gets out? Yeah no, I'm not making a recalc everytime a new game gets out just for a timeframe. It's obvious stupid and abrasive.

 

[Armorchompy]

And then use the Gen 9 when it gets out? Yeah no, I'm not making a recalc everytime a new game gets out just for a timeframe. It's obvious stupid and abrasive.

... that is not what I am suggesting. We have a remake of the original Mystery Dungeon that came out when Sword/Shield were the main games, so we should use those games' animation. I seriously doubt TPC is gonna remake the original PMD anytime soon (or ever for that matter since it didn't do too well) so that's not an issue.

 

[StrymULTRA]

My biggest issue is that in PMD the moves are much faster and the animations are much less realistic.

In both the og PMD and the DX one Flamethrower lasts like 1 second and that's only for the attack arriving to the opponent (it's literally a fireball as shown in 1:09:18).

So if you want to use PMD then fine, but the original calc would remain as there the attack is ≈ 1 second long

 

[Armorchompy]

I mean, in PMD every single move lasts very little because of its gameplay, they have to be really quick since you'll be spamming them.

So please re-read what I said again, since that's not what I was saying in my last post. I said we should use Sword/Shield's animation.

 

[StrymULTRA]

And then we return to the whole "recalc at any gen just for a timeframe" which is a ridiculous solution

 

[Armorchompy]

You have clearly not even read my posts so I will summarize it again.

PMD1 IS REMADE

LAST GAMES WHEN PMD1 IS REMADE ARE SW/SH

WE USE SW/SH ANIMATION

NEXT MAINLINE COME OUT = NO REMAKE CALCULATION BECAUSE NO PMD1 RE-REMAKE

 

[StrymULTRA]

I see then. You could have been clearer lol. Anyway, I'm searching now a Gen 8 animation of Flametrower.

 

[Armorchompy]

I see then. You could have been clearer lol. Anyway, I'm searching now a Gen 8 animation of Flametrower.

WHEN MANY WORD FAIL

FEW WORD WIN

 

[StrymULTRA]

Using this

02:18:65 to 02:21:20, so 3.45 seconds

790.31 / 3.45 = 229.07 Megatons (aka x2.2907 times baseline 7-A)

 

[Starter_Pack]

But anyway yeah, nothing is really left to discuss, OP conceded and now thread is derailing so no point in keeping it

I may have conceded, but if there is more to discuss, then I think that it would be important to talk about it here while the subject is open for discussion.

Also, Rather, the others are correct. If you want to issue your declaration of war against the other Pokémon calculations, tackle them in a separate CRT please. We are only discussing the Charizard feat here.

 

[StrymULTRA]

I may have conceded, but if there is more to discuss, then I think that it would be important to talk about it here while the subject is open for discussion.

Also, Rather, the others are correct. If you want to issue your declaration of war against the other Pokémon calculations, tackle them in a separate CRT please. We are only discussing the Charizard feat here.

Mostly because Piloswine has its own 7-A feat but this isn't yet the momentt to upgrade stage 1 mons to 7-A

 

[Armorchompy]

this isn't yet the moment

 

[CloverDragon03]

Mostly because Piloswine has its own 7-A feat but this isn't yet the momentt to upgrade stage 1 mons to 7-A

Piloswine is stage 2 bro

 

[Starter_Pack]

Piloswine is stage 2 bro

TCG terminology, bro