SAO Upgrade CRT | Absorbing the Sun or something idk

[CurrySenpai]

Page 3! But also I'd imagine the keys would look like this if this passes

At least 8-C physically, higher with Sacred Arts, 8-C with Enhance Armament, 8-A with the Blue Rose Sword's Release Recollection, High 6-A with Incarnation and the Night Sky Sword's Release Recollection | High 6-A with Incarnation and Release Recollection

At least Building level physically (Likely leveled up significantly after helping slay Quinella) higher with Sacred Arts, Building level+ with Enhance Armament (Same as before), Multi-City Block level with the Blue Rose Sword's Release Recollection (Completely froze roughly 20,000 people with the Blue Rose Sword), Multi-Continent level with Incarnation and the Night Sky Sword's Release Recollection (Absorbed Solus's entire luminosity in his fight with Cruiga, converting said energy into Light Elements to defeat his minons with) | Multi-Continent level with Incarnation and Release Recollection (At the very least comparable to his peak in power by the end of Moon Cradle)

Obviously, insert the 7-B possibly/likely High 6-A if that's the route we go down.

 

[CurrySenpai]

@AdamVhenJP you keep liking my posts but ain't say if you agree or disagree yet.....

 

[AdamVhenJP]

Forgot this, I agree as well.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I don't mind the likely/possibly

 

[CurrySenpai]

I don't mind the likely/possibly

Is it alright if I put you down as “Agrees with a likely/possibly rating” then? Just wanna be clear so I don’t put words in people’s mouth.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Is it alright if I put you down as “Agrees with a likely/possibly rating” then? Just wanna be clear so I don’t put words in people’s mouth.

It's fine.

 

[CurrySenpai]

It's fine.

Thank you, then we’ll just need one more who agrees with this notion.

Hey, evil minions (supporters) who support my every whim (/j), can you guys try and get a thread mod here?

 

[Phoenks]

@Celestial_Pegasus @Elizhaa Curry is very desperate for staff consensus. Apparently SAO verse is dead or something yatta yatta. What are your thoughts?

 

[CurrySenpai]

@Celestial_Pegasus @Elizhaa Curry is very desperate for staff consensus. Apparently SAO verse is dead or something yatta yatta. What are your thoughts?

I should kill you................

THanks though pookie.

 

[Kaantantr]

Hello, I just saw the notification by DMUA and wanted to let you know that I'll sift through the entire thread later today, currently busy on an SAO:AGGO video in preparation of tomorrows Season 2 stage. There have been a loooooooot of messages here. I'll try to validate or respond to all given arguments throughout the thread. If I didn't respond to an argument, it's likely because I glossed over it in the sea of messages, I wish there was less bickering to keep things in clean and maybe less than... checks post number 88 replies

 

[DMUA]

I don’t see why this would be the case. It’s more reasonable to assume the light returned that fast because Kirito used the Light Elements that were from Solus up. These two things directly correlate with one another in this scene.

You have to understand this makes absolutely no sense if we're treating the sun as a real celestial body.

Also, note that I've pointed out that the narration for third person stuff in SAO is absolutely limited, and we have no actually solid ground to assume the entirety of the sun's luminosity is absorbed here. Really need that kept to attention before people jump to High 6-A being airtight enough for a likely rating, much less a certainly as has been proposed.

 

[CurrySenpai]

As a heads up, I won’t be able to respond basically ALL DAY as I have a irl fighting game tournament till midnight CST, so if possible I’d appreciate if staff could hold off once Kaantantr makes his arguments so I may have ample time to respond to him.

 

[Kaantantr]

Alright, wall of text incoming. Not all of it is going to be the most chill responses, as I feel like some of this just retreads the exact same issues as years ago with the Fanatio or "universe shook" cases. A lot of it revolves around how certain things work in Underworld, how Reki writes his stories and how "overinterpreting" stuff just has to get really tiring at some point. Including Moon Cradle Anime Cutscenes! Enjoy.

Time to preface all of this by saying "The entire story is told from Ronye's perspective, as she is the MC of Moon Cradle". She is such a low tier agent here, that she cannot even comprehend the concept of the Outer Wall surrounding the Underworld map. So while it is not at all fun to see us return to 5 years ago with Fanatio talking fancy about how her Heaven Piercing Blade is shooting out the light of Solus (which the excerpts provided here once again prove that it never did, thank you, we'll get to it), I find myself once again at a point where I need to ask "Do you guys actually read the books, or do you only grab epubs in order to do random CTRL+F searches for cherry picked sentences?

in order to swiftly defeat his Dark Minion's he uses the Memory Release of the Night-Sky Sword to absorb the ENTIRE light of Solus, which is the Sun in Underworld. As mentioned in the imgur link it describes that Solus had lost ALL its light, comparing the feat to Lunaria completely covering it like a solar eclipse.

Yes, he does absorb the Spatial Resources, that is what the Night Sky Sword does, just as what Gigas Cedar did as a tree. However, I am just completely lost on how far you are taking a simple "covering of the sky", although given the talks during War of Underworld days, I am not surprised.

Have you ever used a thick, dark umbrella during a summer day? Or sat under a beach umbrella? When you are covering the sky, it does become dark underneath the covered area. If I enter a building where the ceiling is glass, and someone decides to bring on the blinders to cover the glass ceiling, the inside of the building will also get dark.

What's happening here is literally no different than the WoU case, nor is it any different from the Fanatio fight, nor is it any different than Gigas Cedar having no smaller trees in the clearing around it, because its body is literally blocking the sunlight from reaching below it.

Although one thing your excerpt does is actually solidify what I have been saying with countless examples for the past 4-5 years. Divine Objects merely turn Spatial Resources into Sacred Arts Elements. I never thought to look towards Moon Cradle for a reference, but it's right there how the NSS absorbs the Spatial Resources from Solus and turns them into Luminous Elements.

Kirito is absorbing the luminosity of the entirety of Solus, not just getting blocking it out

I really have no idea what the argument being made even is. The NSS is blocking the sun out, by absorbing the sunlight, which is one source of Spatial Resources. When the 2nd Memory Ability of the Blue Rose Sword drains the Durability of nearby objects/people, do you just go "The Blue Rose Sword made the people and objects unexist"? Because that's the equivalent.

So I am not sure what you are trying to achieve by rephrasing the act of "Absorbing the spatial resources from the sun" into "absorbing the luminosity of the entirety of Solus". Well, except that you are making the statement false. That's like having a lightbulb in the center of your room, blocking the light with your hand in front of your eyes and claim you turned off the lights.

"He couldn't have absorbed all of it, the sun would have died!" Underworld is already unconventional by real world means, it runs on the shared memories of all its inhabitants and is quite literally a game/simulation, I would not be surprised if the sun just came back after some time

This just reads like "I like to think Kirito turned the Sun off and on and I want you all to believe it too". You make a claim, you have to substantiate it. A "belief" is not even evidence, let alone proof. It's all the more ridiculous, when we know how the Memory Ability of the NSS works from way before.

just like versus Vecta, Kirito's Release Recollection wears off, and the sky returns to normal, it's completely valid to assume it just returned overtime

Uhmmm, yes? Attacks have an ending. If I throw a rock, it will eventually fall down. If I swing a sword, it'll swing around and stop. Once again, I am so very lost on what the argument here is. You are trying to make everything sound as if the Memory Ability of a weapon concerns the entire simulation, but it doesn't. The ability of a weapon, concerns the weapon. The weapon is a tree that absorbs light. It is not a tree that jumps into space, eats up the sun, uses it as a nuclear reactor and then pukes it back out into its previous place.

Also, I'd like to remind you that the War of Underworld showcase of NSS' Memory Ability covered the sky of the entire Underworld map, which was a much bigger feat, than just draining the light based spatial resources around the measly Norlangarth villa. Don't get me wrong, the Villa and its garden are quite luxurious and big, would love to live there. But it ain't "the entire world map".

even Ronye says the Light Elements would fade away with time

This is basic Sacred Arts 101. You need to maintain the elements you create, or the elements will lose their potency and fade away. This is explained as early as the beginning of Alicization. There is no statement to be made here.

Kirito should be Tiered High 6-A as the luminosity of the sun is 3.846e26 watts and that's just 3.846e26 joules. His War of Underworld key would recieve High 6-A with release recollection and his Star King and Queen Asuna key would be High 6-A.

So anyone who goes out with an umbrella when its sunny outside is a "High 6-A" because the other people under the umbrella think they just gobbled up the entire sun?

I'm sorry, but this is once again a clear misreading of very basic text to interpret everything as you want to. So much so that in your post body, there aren't even any arguments being made to support your claims. You basically say "Kirito just ate the sun and the sun came back after he finished digesting". I am also unsure as to what people are agreeing with, since as I said... There are no arguments being made.

I think it’s important to mention the feat with Vecta where he turns the day time sky into night mag have to just be scrapped entirerly, this new text and some other quotes confirm he’s just changing it to night

Would love to see those quotes. I wonder if they are also from Ronye's own mind...

There is a significant issue of "not understanding context" going on here. Someone should check the Tsukigake's chapter, the little baby pet dragons perception of the world may bring some amazing feats never seen before!

Jokes aside, as I imagine the quote is referring to is from a descriptive paragraph back in Kirito's PoV, it is no different than me, covering the window with curtains and "turning day into night". It is as simple as it gets. And it is exhausting to keep seeing the same thing happen, over and over, people overinterpreting basic, casual, daily statements. We LITERALLY use these terms in our daily lives. The massive storm cloud turns day into night. The polluted air in China turned day into night. The solar eclipse turned day into night. The smoke from the forest fire turned day into night. "turning day into night" is the common phrase for "the environment getting dark". Or aside from such circumstances, the term is also used for sun setting down, which again, causes things to go dark. It does not refer to Sebek chomping up Ra and then Ra escaping to start a day anew. These are basic words. Stop being the "blue curtain" meme please.

This sorta defeats itself.

DMUA put everything in much simpler terms than I did. How anyone looks at this and goes "this is impeccable" is beyond me.

all of its light had been lost

Yes, around the villa premises. All light is lost in my room, when I close the curtains as well.

with the text citing it was as if Solus had lost ALL its light

You do realize from inside the villa, which is where Ronye is at that moment, they do not even see Solus, right?

Oh and by the way, we actually have an anime version of this scene as well:

At this point, I am just going to stop repeating myself and stop pointing out you are bringing casual, non-literal statements by Ronye, who is barely seeing what's happening outside of the villa.

there is text from Kirito talking about Underworld as a planet

Of course. Colloquial speech. You are cherry picking word choices in ways that these characters have never thought about themselves. Stop. Overinterpreting. This is like Sonic fans and their "what is canon" obsession, that leads to Sonic the Hedgehog twitter account tweeting "Everything is canon" just to mock them... And then them taking that statement seriously and starting to preach that everything is canon, so much so that the writer Ian Flynn finally coming out and telling them they think too much about what is canon, making them forget to just have fun.

But to be frank, there are people here who take it one step further and yell "Death of the author" when such things happen, so why am I even going on about this.

These characters are not making a scientific presentation to a commission of researchers in every single one of their inner monologues. That's why it is important to be able to read and understand the context of what's being said, rather than trying to dissect random statements and word choices, then harass the authors when people point out you are wrong, and then yell Death of the Author when even the author refutes your claims.

The process is so much easier, when you do not overinterpret from the get go.

It is mentioned that the Sun is "Sacred Power"

Solus is not Sacred Power or anything. Underworld has numerous preconditioned Spatial Resource sources. Solus' light (and thus by extension Lunaria/Admina's light at night), the soil itself (and by extension flowers/plants, the more "exotic" the better), durability/HP (people, animals or objects) etc.

That's why the Dark Territory is called what it is and is such a wasteland when we first see it

We actually do not know whether Dark Territory is called that because the sky is "dark" (tbh, in which case, it should have been called Red Territory), or because the humans there are dark skinned. We know however that it's the skin color that dictated the names of the Dark Knights or the Dark Mages (and by extension Dark Arts in comparison to Sacred Arts, considering its literally the same spells otherwise), so again, random personal assumptions like these are the reason personal beliefs have no value in what is the reality.

it's a natural rule that things in Underworld regenerate life over time

This is absolutely incorrect. Everything naturally loses life over time. Humans/animals can regenerate HP via healing through external measures, or by the sheer nature of being alive (which factors in eating, drinking etc, similar to real life). Swords being sheathed is a special condition specific to Project Alicization. Leave it out of its sheath and see if they regen any of their durability.

If my time with SAO has taught me anything, pretty much any circumstance of something being ambiguous is Reki writing for the lower end interpretation to be taken literally. It's a pattern that's repeated pretty historically with things being described to sound extremely high Tier, only to have multiple pieces of direct evidence to show that's not literal.

I will go one step ahead. Reki is not actively thinking about what he may have meant when he was using colloquial language or casual talks, because never in his mind has he imagined someone reading "It got dark a bit" and interpreting that as "The sun has been absorbed entirely by the sword to use as a power source and it reappeared afterwards".

Sometimes, you just have to wonder... In Japan where SAO is much much much more popular, there is not a single fan community who makes such absurd claims. I wonder why that is, compared to 3-4 people reinventing what it means to "get a bit darker" multiple times a year, in this community alone.

This is just the narration talking about all light being absorbed. So are we assuming the narrative's perspective is limited to a specific area?

Unless explicitly stated as an omniscient narrator (which only happened 3-4 times in War of Underworld to dive into the real pasts of Integrity Knights that they themselves do not remember), the narrator in Sword Art Online is always the perspective character of the given chapter. That narration is speaking from Ronye's perspective. We have been over this countless times, years ago, even with examples of how explicit Reki is when switching to an omniscient narrator.

He used that power to suck up the light of Solus

"Sucking up the light of the sun"... That is exactly what solar panels do. We have a bunch at our summer house too, we can even use them as a roof for a shed. If you stand under them, they can turn day into night! It's called a shade.

mainly because one of the main pieces of evidence is a leading question on twitter

Oh screw these arguments really. Literally in the next Unital Ring book, these were all put into a paragraph the same way he wrote on twitter, as if Reki was tired of this BS. There are too many people who just go above and beyond to refute everything they do not personally like.

But the thing I don't like is the idea that the other planets and sun aren't generated as of the current story, mainly cause of the claim that that stuff exists in a skybox.

Even to this day, I have no idea why people are interested in whether it is a full on universe simulation or a skybox, when the argument already stops when you actually read the text and realize it's just describing the visual effect of a shockwave.

I hate, hate, hate the fact that people kept pushing the goalpost over and over that a simple shockwave causing a visual ripple, became a thing about the universe and the stars and the sun etc.

You can ignore the skybox stuff entirely and nothing changes. So you do not at all need to acknowledge "the skybox argument" if you don't want to, as it is a moot argument in the first place.

Had to look at Underworlder history to remember that Solus' light specifically doesn't shine on the Dark Territory because of Solus driving out Vecta and his forces and being angry at them. Obviously this is a legend and myth made by Underworlders and the church, but it does in fact apply to those lands.

Correct. That is the religious explanation. The real reason is that RATH wanted Dark Territory to starve for resources, so that they would eventually be stressed enough to attempt invading the Human Empire for good, hence the Final Stress Test existing as a program module to remove the barriers inbetween to allow the invasion. It's all part of their plan.

Another important thing I'd like to add with this quote is that Kirito is directly stating Lunaria is a sphere like earth and that it reacts to the light of Solus in a way like our real moon, with different phases.

Again, just ignore the "skybox" argument if you want to. It really does not factor into anything in any argument. However here, Kirito is basically just explaining the concept to Ronye. That is exactly how it would work, if the content would have to be generated. And it is how it works 200 years later when that content is generated. Again, whether at that moment, if things are a skybox projection, or 3D models in a full universe simulation, none of it matters for any argument anyways.

An example is Bercouli’s “Time Splitting Sword” made from an in-universe clock, it taps into those memories allowing Bercouli to slice into the past and present when he activates it.

Time Splitting Sword is actually unique, compared to other Divine Objects. At least the Divine Objects of old, there are things to be said about future Divine Objects, like Istar's pistol. But either way, all Divine Objects we know from the original Alicization time are just "Sacred Arts automation programs" if you will. They consume their Durability to manifest as elaborate, elemental Sacred Arts. Bercouli's Time Splitting Sword is made from the clock object and actually uses Sacred Arts to not cast an elemental manifestation, but rather access system logs. It's quite the neat detail, as it was made from the System Clock that was put in there, an actual admin object.

This all culminates in this scene, where Kirito used the sword to absorb the ENTIRE light of Solus, because that is it’s memory. Rather than just create an eclipse he is actually just absorbing the sun’s light/energy, completely blotting it out to the point everything became dark, the sun did not return the entire time he was using this only returning once he had finished using the ability and presumably said energy, meaning the return of Solus' light and his use of the ability are directly tied to each other.

You are really doing a lot to spice things up. It is great for visualization purposes, which is why the novels are so vibrant when you read them. But what you are essentially describing is a Solar Panel. And to be frank, it can absorb all kinds of Spatial Resources. During daytime, sunlight is just the most abundant one and easily accessible.

If it was all of the sun's luminosity, that'd take over 8 minutes to restore rather than the very moment Kirito stops fighting. That's how long it takes light to cross that distance.

I'd imagine the normal response to this would be "It's a game world, it does not abide by our irl rules, there is no RTX tech being used, it's all baked in lighting", but then again, the entire "Sun is gone and then its back" is such an unfounded argument to begin with that I question why anyone is taking it seriously to respond and extend that argument.

It's the "Universe shook" leading into an irrelevant "skybox" argument. Whether there was a universe or a skybox is irrelevant, when the topic was a simple shockwave ripple from Sti and Laura's perspectives. And now, everyone is all about "Is it skybox, does that planet exist, is the sun real?" when none of it matters for any argument anyways.

Most things are on repeat anyways, so I guess this covers it.

 

[CurrySenpai]

I’m still at my tournament, I just have some time onmy hand, but I would like to say I don’t know why you’re being so aggressive and why you’re bringing up the world shaking feats. This thread covers NONE of that what so ever, I do not even think it was mentioned in a capacity that was us trying to upgrade based on these feats.
With all due respect you are being a bit of an asshole and making assumptions of my intentions and character that I don’t really like.

 

[Nierre]

He was hardly being an asshole or so aggressive in his post. He prefaced his text with a warning that his arguments may not be chill but due to exhaustion to what he believes to be retreading the same arguments and misinterpreting what the story is trying to convey.

I even had to do a double take after your post to see where he was aggressive, but all I saw was slight aggression at most, but he's been very respectful in his post, at least the attempt was there.

Currently I agree with DMUA but I'd like to see what the OP and Fuji have to say in rebuttal before I fully cast my vote (not like it even matters..)

 

[CurrySenpai]

He was hardly being an asshole or so aggressive in his post. He prefaced his text with a warning that his arguments may not be chill but due to exhaustion to what he believes to be retreading the same arguments and misinterpreting what the story is trying to convey.

If I say “I mean no offense by this” to a gay or trans person then immediatley follow it up with calling them a slur I think that’d be offensive and aggressive?

Even if it wasn’t his intention, I still feel some of the things said were clear jabs such as “cherry picking evidence.” And just “not reading the series” is clearly rude, unnecessary, and doesn’t need to be said. I don’t think I’m being unreasonable here in feeling somewhat offended/attacked.

 

[CurrySenpai]

I digress though, I will not be able to reply for a while though, so I assume Fuji will take over for me.

 

[Nierre]

If I say “I mean no offense by this” to a gay or trans person then immediatley follow it up with calling them a slur I think that’d be offensive and aggressive?

???? Aint no way bruh

 

[CurrySenpai]

???? Aint no way bruh

The point is that you can preface a message with the intention of “not being offensive” or “I know this will sound aggressive” and still be aggressive. It’s not a shield to people calling you out.

 

[Nierre]

I personally didn't see his post as something offensive, but it wasn't towards me so it ain't really my business. So I'll stop derailing and instead wait for the rebuttal.

 

[Kaantantr]

This thread covers NONE of that what so ever, I do not even think it was mentioned in a capacity that was us trying to upgrade based on these feats.

It is a showcase of the history this series has gone through. In the other Hypersonic thread, it's happening as well. It's the biggest highlight of how a lot of statements are constantly being taken outside of their scope or context to get a surface level "sounds ok if you say so" approval. Same thing is happening in the Hypersonic thread too. Nobody but DMUA even bothered discussing the context of the meteor with me and Mr. Bambu was at least kind enough to bring it back up in passing. The one problem with all SAO threads is that nobody seems to care about the real context.

Also, I don't have any stakes in upgrades of downgrades. As my initial replies said, I did not even see arguments in the initial post, so I was mostly confused by what impeccable thing everyone was even "agreeing" in the first place. And then I just continued answering everything I saw, which surprisingly, skybox argument came up quite often for once again, no reason whatsoever.

If I say “I mean no offense by this” to a gay or trans person then immediatley follow it up with calling them a slur I think that’d be offensive and aggressive?

Even if it wasn’t his intention, I still feel some of the things said were clear jabs such as “cherry picking evidence.” And just “not reading the series” is clearly rude, unnecessary, and doesn’t need to be said. I don’t think I’m being unreasonable here in feeling somewhat offended/attacked.

I'm sorry, I didn't realize I was utilizing slurs or insults in my responses. I was merely over and over stating the fact that you guys are just citing individual sentences taken out of their context, without mentioning the circumstances or reasons why things were said, while I was urging over and over for years upon years to "understand the context surrounding statements".

It should have been clear when I made the remark about just going ahead taking the baby dragon Tsukigake's thoughts as the gospel next time for even more interesting feats.

Until I arrived here, you were all very highly engaged in a discussion about "sun dimming outside a building" for 3 pages straight, with arguments as baseless as "Sun disappearing entirely and reappearing in its place afterwards".

If pointing out the constant mental gymnastics or the leaps of personal assumption, you can always report and move on. There's like a dozen people agreeing to something, with only disagreement being DMUA's. Me agreeing or disagreeing changes nothing. I'm here to respond to what I see. And I responded to what I saw. I do not need a magical shield that grants me an immunity.

And if anyone finds me pointing out the exact same misunderstanding/misconstruing issues continuing for half a decade to be offensive, then I do not know what to say man. That's probably the most "aggressive" thing I said and I didn't even say it in accusatory ways since you do not have a history of deliberately trying to deceive people like some others do. But yes, I can see it feeling a certain way, when someone tells you you misinterpret something about a dozen times... However, that is the exact point of this forum. People pointing out errors, so that the work can be refined without mistakes.

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

Gamerturk??? Loves your videos lol.

 

[Phoenks]

@Kaantantr if you wouldn't mind, could you better substantiate your arguments using scans from the text, rather than just making claims from yourself? As an outsider, I fail to understand why are you comparing a statement that all light from the star disappeared in the sky (horizon), to merely holding your hand in front of a lightbulb, or holding an umbrella over your head. To me that doesn't correlate as a fair equivalence at all. In both of those scenarios you would still very clearly see light beaming down around you, it wouldn't turn night - not in the slightest.

 

[Kaantantr]

I am not using a secondary source, just elaborating on what's there in those excerpts.

to merely holding your hand in front of a lightbulb

You are correct. Block your eyes with your hands. That'd be the correct equivalence.

If you cover your eyes with your hands, you will see pitch black (eyes being the location where they are, the Human Empire), whereas your body would be the rest of Underworld. While your eyes would receive 0 light because they are completely blanketed, that does not change the fact that the lightbulb is still there and even the rest of your face and body are still receiving light.

could you better substantiate your arguments using scans from the text

I'm sure @DMUA could do a better job on that front once he comes around, as the precedence is a half a decade old "Covering the Sky" from War of Underworld anyways, where it is the basis of previous downgrades.

 

[Phoenks]

But from the text, I'd compare this to literally seeing the sun disappear from the sky and everything go dark like night. In which case, combined with the statements of the sword sucking all the light from the star, seems to infer that all of that star's light was absorbed, not just the light hitting the surface.

 

[CurrySenpai]

Im on my way home, and have some time to text, and I’d just like to say I don’t know why you’re so caught up on this feat being “covering the sky” and I am confused how you came to this conclusion in this first place.

The feat in question is Kirito ABSORBING Solus’ light. The narrator or as you insist Ronye is stating that he had SUCKED UP the light of Solus, it then goes onto explain the swords ability is ABSORBING spatial resources to explain what Kirito is doing. In no way does in elude to or state he is covering the night sky like an umbrella can block out sun or when you close your eyes. This is a different feat, plain and simple, especially if you look at Imgur link image where it just directly states Kirito turned the sky of underworld into a night sky.

And your examples of “sucking up the light of the sun” then equating that to a real life solar panel is beyond me. Kirito absorbs the light and it is stated the Sun had disappeared, as Phoenks said, if the sun had just been blocked out, especially in this particular region, light would still be perceptible up to a certain point, especially if it just covered a “measly villa”

Also, in that anime clip… I’m gonna ignore the fact it’s from Unleash Blading, but that clip does not in anyway visualize the absorbing scene in question, but it does show the villa opening up to show the bright sky as Kirito and Asuna arrive. You claimed they were in the villa… but this clip contradicts your claim and shows they could actually just straight up see the sky despite this, and you know what is in a bright sky usually? The sun.

Also please, for the love of god, provide scans. People may be more agreeable if you had the actual text to support your claims, but right now it looks like you’re just saying “I know how Underworld works and you should just trust my word.”

 

[Kaantantr]

I was going to reply to Phoenks, but since you ninja'd my response, I'll make this very simple for you Curry. Let's trim all the fat.

Why do you interpret "absorbing the light of Solus" as "absorbing Solus"? I mean, even the countless times you reiterated your arguments, when you explain the incident, you always say "Sucking up the light of Solus" yourself. So then why is your claim "Well, it actually gobbled up the sun, that's what it's doing" out of nowhere?

And if we want to be physically accurate, darkness means your eyes just receive no light. It does not mean the sun itself disappeared. If the sun has disappeared, please provide citations that it has.

This is the "universe shaking" shenanigans again, where people misinterpreted a simple nearby shockwave ripple as the universe shaking, when not a single soul actually felt the universe shake.

If the sun had disappeared at any point, this would be quite the major event. Please provide citations, like how Kirito covering the sky back in v18 literally has a over a dozen accounts from all around Underworld, confirming that it happened. You won't find it for this, because this is literally a local incident, unlike the v18 feat spanning the entire Underworld map.

But from the text, I'd compare this to literally seeing the sun disappear from the sky and everything go dark like night. In which case, combined with the statements of the sword sucking all the light from the star, seems to infer that all of that star's light was absorbed, not just the light hitting the surface.

As courtesy, not gonna ignore you though. The text literally states it "went dark like a solar eclipse", with Lunaria being the moon figure blocking the sun in Underworld. Even a full solar eclipse, has more than enough light around. That description alone is the proof that the statements are only talking about how it got "much darker than it just was previously".

 

[DMUA]

if you wouldn't mind, could you better substantiate your arguments using scans from the text, rather than just making claims from yourself

The stuff he's bringing up has been posted many times before, and I've linked at least a few of those instances in the thread already. Here's another pass if you need it, on the narration being limited to third person, on flowery language being very consistent and the underworld's mechanics. This stuff has already been in the know for awhile, so I guess he's just not obligated to dig things up just to repeat something already said.

But from the text, I'd compare this to literally seeing the sun disappear from the sky and everything go dark like night. In which case, combined with the statements of the sword sucking all the light from the star, seems to infer that all of that star's light was absorbed, not just the light hitting the surface.

It's also from the perspective of a character on the scene, where there would be no functional difference from removing all light from the area and removing all light from the sun, because either way you wouldn't see anything but the fact it's dark out and everything's channeled into his blade.

You guys are missing the point, it's a comparison to demonstrate how something can happen, not an exact one to one where each situation is perfectly and one hundred percent comparable. Obviously one is greater in scale, but that scale can still be far lower than multi continent level with what the text is saying.

 

[CurrySenpai]

Why do you interpret "absorbing the light of Solus" as "absorbing Solus"? I mean, even the countless times you reiterated your arguments, when you explain the incident, you always say "Sucking up the light of Solus" yourself. So then why is your claim "Well, it actually gobbled up the sun, that's what it's doing" out of nowhere?

You have once again COMPLETELY missed my point and made up some random misinterpreted claim I did not in the slightest elude to.

My claim is that Kirito absorbed THE LIGHT of Solus, the LUMINOSITY, which is the brightness of an object or in this case celestial body. I am not claiming he just absorbed the sun as you have randomly decided to claim, that would be absurd and would also be much higher than High 6-A.

If the sun had disappeared at any point, this would be quite the major event. Please provide citations, like how Kirito covering the sky back in v18 literally has a over a dozen accounts from all around Underworld, confirming that it happened. You won't find it for this, because this is literally a local incident, unlike the v18 feat spanning the entire Underworld map.

This is a very nicely cherry picked example, because you know what also came with the scene of Kirito covering the sky in WoU against Gabriel? People praying and offering their hopes, dreams, and incarnation as “stars in the sky.” for Kirito to absorb as Spatial Resources. It is quite literally, the climax of the War of Underworld arc where people pray to make thousands of stars in the sky appear, they show other people’s perspectives to make it more impactful, to show notable characters love for Kirito, and because these people are actually somewhat involved.

This is Kirito absorbing the light of the Sun in a battle that is clearly not as impactful as that scene, and does not even have the same “Lend me your energy” thing happening. Why would we just randomly shift perspective just to be like “Oh by the way reader, I just really wanted to confirm to you that Kirito did in fact absorbed the suns luminosity. Here is 3/4 scenes of people who are not involved randomly reacting to it in order to detract from this important scene!” that is absolutely absurd!

I’m sorry… but I genuinely do not think you are adding anything new or productive to this conversation, and I can see this easily going in circles.

 

[Phoenks]

I'm not missing any points. You both are simply so deep into your pre-existing claims about this feat you don't even realize you are the ones making more assumptions about the text to justify your claims, all while not actually proving the text supports what you're saying, and then, on top of it all, acting all high and mighty about it. At least, that's what it looks like to me.

The most simple reasoning for the statements curry provided is that he absorbed all the light from the star.

You know why? Because that's what the text says. No further assumptions are made.

Going by occram's razor, Curry's proposal is what is most supported by the text.

Once you start adding on these assumptions about how "oh it was only from this person's perspective. "Oh it was just blocking it out like an eclipse." You end up being the one with further assumptions that neither of you have proven.

After 5 years of holding up this belief, I would've expected better arguments. Instead, all I'm getting is baseless claims backed by a pretty snarky and arrogant attitude. And to make it worse you guys keep surrounding your main arguments in fluff. Seriously, you couldn't be worse at summarizing your points.

That's all from me for now.

 

[Reiner04]

Yeah, I also find OP interpretation seems to be better fitting than the counterassertions which doesn't seems to be have any base. Imo.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

I was going to reply to Phoenks, but since you ninja'd my response, I'll make this very simple for you Curry. Let's trim all the fat.

Why do you interpret "absorbing the light of Solus" as "absorbing Solus"? I mean, even the countless times you reiterated your arguments, when you explain the incident, you always say "Sucking up the light of Solus" yourself. So then why is your claim "Well, it actually gobbled up the sun, that's what it's doing" out of nowhere?

And if we want to be physically accurate, darkness means your eyes just receive no light. It does not mean the sun itself disappeared. If the sun has disappeared, please provide citations that it has.

This is the "universe shaking" shenanigans again, where people misinterpreted a simple nearby shockwave ripple as the universe shaking, when not a single soul actually felt the universe shake.

If the sun had disappeared at any point, this would be quite the major event. Please provide citations, like how Kirito covering the sky back in v18 literally has a over a dozen accounts from all around Underworld, confirming that it happened. You won't find it for this, because this is literally a local incident, unlike the v18 feat spanning the entire Underworld map.

Nobody said Kirito absorbed Solus. Everyone in agreement with the OP is well aware that he only absorbed its light, and that is where the proposed high 6-A rating comes from. If we had at any point claimed that he absorbed Solus itself - which we didn't - then we'd be pushing for a 4-C rating, but we're obviously not doing that. We also never claimed the sun itself disappeared, just that the light that it generates was absorbed, which again, is where high 6-A comes from. Genuinely, what are you even talking about?

The universe shaking thing is irrelevant. I'm not sure why it's being brought up in a thread regarding a completely separate feat, except for maybe attempting to poison the well. In any case, a feat with a wide scale not being explicitly mentioned by literally everyone affected by it does not make the feat invalid. That'd require cutting away from the current scene in order to showcase those reactions, which from a writer's perspective, would hurt the flow of the story and ultimately not serve much of a purpose. It's not really evidence against the feat; It's just a matter of good writing.

I'll try to respond to everything else when I get the chance.

 

[DMUA]

The most simple reasoning for the statements curry provided is that he absorbed all the light from the star.

You know why? Because that's what the text says. No further assumptions are made.

Going by occram's razor, Curry's proposal is what is most supported by the text.

Yes, but things don't exist in a complete vacuum. We know that taking this statement completely literally causes contradictions (the light comes back immediately after the fight, despite light taking 8 minutes to cross from the sun to the earth, and if they're only absorbing the luminosity directly on earth, it's in the 7-B range and thus the value needs to be adjusted). We know SAO has plenty of feats being stated overtly, whether in past translations or current ones, that also don't make sense taken entirely literally, which is why we've both compared and emphasized them despite not being directly connected to this given scenario (though Kaantantr could certainly afford to be less aggressive, as is the usual for these cases...). We know that SAO doesn't do omniscient narration, and our rules on statements make a very clear, simple statement: the reliability depends on the source. We know that narration for side stories like this can have incomplete information, such as how Sigurosig only sees a "a woman- a knight clad in armor", but the audience knows their name is Fanito. The scene itself even supports this- it compares the absorption of Solus's light to a Solar Eclipse, which doesn't literally negate the entire sun's luminosity, just blocks it out from the perspective of Earth.

We aren't overcomplicating a simple thing, we're just reading it with more information about the overall work and how it's written. You think of Occam's Razor, but I think of Sherlock Holmes; when you root out all other possibilities, whatever remains, regardless of absurdity, must be true. Those aren't contradictory sentiments, more complex situations just require stranger and more complex answers, which is just how SAO's been ever since the 4-A ratings turned out bunk.

 

[DMUA]

Nobody said Kirito absorbed Solus. Everyone in agreement with the OP is well aware that he only absorbed its light, and that is where the proposed high 6-A rating comes from. If we had at any point claimed that he absorbed Solus itself - which we didn't - then we'd be pushing for a 4-C rating, but we're obviously not doing that.

That's another thing, Kaantantr's also not that big of a versus debater to begin with, so this gap does genuinely throw him off. His main investment on this wiki is just barring misinformation from being spread (as the stuff we had here genuinely infected the more casual audience of the community and became an actual, moderated problem, so he felt a need to step in on the issue)

To explain for him:

When we talk about absorbing the sun as a whole, there's something known as Gravitational Binding Energy that gets overpowered as a result. This energy is significantly higher than just the light outputted by the sun, so directly absorbing it and all the materials creating it is far higher than High 6-A. In this case, they're advocating for a High 6-A rating because that's how many Watts of light the sun releases, which is a ton of power but doesn't really consume the sun in the process and is ultimately much lower as a result

 

[Quibster]

The fact that the light absorb feat happened is abundantly clear-- that much I can agree on. (Yes, this is me agreeing with the OP)

As for the opposition, the aggressiveness and word of mouth claims come off as unreasonable to me, whereas the OP and supporters of this CRT have an understandable and legible case with provided scans. Being kind as a "courtesy" or going into an arbitrary rant about """the community" doesn't make you look good either, it makes you look toxic and unreasonable.

I also feel that trying to defend and rationalize this sort behavior at the expense of the OP who's taken the time to push this CRT to begin with is just shitty, but that's just me. Whether or not something is """overpowered""" is irrelevant in this hobby. What matters is whether or not a feat happened, not whether or not it's digestible for the casual audience of a community.

 

[Omnificence]

I don't see any problems with it, so I can agree with it.

 

[CloverDragon03]

So as I said before, I was initially on the fence about where I stand regarding this feat. I didn't end up answering Curry's response from before, because I genuinely struggled to come up with a proper response. Hence, I decided to wait and see what others had to say on the matter. And if I'm being honest... I think the rebuttals have been less than stellar (both in their contents and in how the responders actually carried themselves). We're pretty much forced to make more needless assumptions to arrive at a more "conservative" estimate of this feat, to say nothing of how the feat's been repeatedly misinterpreted (such as just being an eclipse, or claiming that the OP believes Solus itself was absorbed).

Now, I don't think everything said in the OP is exactly the most solid. For instance, the part addressing the "the Sun would've died if he absorbed all its light" counterargument is largely filled with pure conjecture. Namely, stuff like "I wouldn't be surprised if [x]" is not a good argument at all. But, I believe the OP's actual merits definitely outweigh these few shortcomings.

With that being said, I am no longer neutral. I agree with the OP

 

[Reiner04]

It's fine.

What's your opinion regarding recent responses of @Phoenks & @CloverDragon03? Do you think full rating can be considered?

 

[CloverDragon03]

Oh yeah, should’ve specified that I don’t even mean a likely/possibly. I support a full High 6-A rating

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Now I gone through this entire thread and knowing limited knowledge about SAO in general like the anime

I am more curious on “Solus losing all its light on the western horizon” as this doesn’t sound like sheer AP, more like buffing a weapon Kirito is using to achieve the outcome he is gunning for assuming I reading the scan the OP provided initially.

IIRC so this is in a video game world, I gonna works on what being stated in these scans and not interested into the initial proposal that Kirito was buffing his weapon to a large degree since SAO should have buffing abilities if memories serve me right