Reimu and Marisa's tiering

[Yamatohime]

Andy seems to support it, that's one. Don't know about Yama and Saikou though....

I'm OK with this. I'm Alice fan after all. This way Alice can compete with Marisa withour real problem (and their friendly feud actualy looks plausilbe).

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Well as i editted above, Prom has said that everyone here has agreed with the downgrade.

Though wouldn't it be better if Lina made this as a blog calc so that we can have more people give input on it? Just to be safe, i mean....

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

@Lina We agreed to downgrade Reimu to Marisa's level IIRC

And yeah I'm okay with all that

 

[Lina_Shields]

Added blog here .

And Reimu you know, is way, way above this in power.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Why so? Reimu's only good canon feat is scaling to Suwako's Small Country feat and now Marisa's. As I said before the only thing making Reimu "much above Marisa" is the Barrier feat, but Reimu has barrier hax letting her do so.

 

[Andykhang]

The barrier that Yukari herself have to fix, and literally seperate one worlds from another (Though Touhou nature make it easy for it to materialize). It's not enough just explain it by hax.

 

[Yamatohime]

This way we can go up and put Tenshi above majority of Gensoukyou habitants... Cause Celestials are quite close to the top of the food chain... And Nawi clan is one of the strongest of Celestials (they ruled Earth sometime in the past after all).

 

[Lina_Shields]

It seems that most of us have agreed to the upgrades. So the summary for Reimu and Marisa is...

• (Reimu)

Attack Potency: At least Small Country level, likely higher

• (Marisa)

Attack Potency: Small Country level (Vaporized Mount Gensokyo)

Is this okay? Someone needs to make the changes.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

@Andy Reimu's whole purpose is dealing with barrier, and then we have multiple statement saying that Reimu ~ Marisa in sheer power.

 

[Andykhang]

In sheer Master Spark, you mean, not in overall power .Finding atrocious comment like Marisa may having a magic to stop the night is enough already.

Still think Reimu attack Potency is Likely Higher though.


Edit: I would said she got the capability to harm even Continent Dura opponent like Okuu, if it isn't for the fact that : 1. Spell Card, 2. Special Anti-Youkai attack and 9. Cirno. Then again, it is impressive that her talisman could stand the heat of Okuu sun.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

What does the ~ mean? =?

Heat resistance isn't really a grand feat imo. And I'm probably the only one who has faith in Moon-Planet Touhou mid hi tiers. And then again Okuu might've been following the danmaku rules but she was willing to destroy Gensokyo, so she might not have been following the non-lethal methods of it. But that's debatable. I argued my case that Cirno is a lot stronger than people expect her to be with Eiki's wordings or is at least more heat resistant but no one seems to believe os.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

~ is =, but more like approximate.

Yeah but what Eiki said hints that most Youkai are above even strong fairies already.

 

[Andykhang]

@COB: heat resistance against a fusion reaction with a piece of papers is impressive, in my opinion. Moreso when you firing through it.

Also, even if Cirno is a lot stronger than expected, in the end she's still, as best, an elite mook.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Ah makes sense.

Eiki also implies that she might be turning into something else since she would lose her ability to recover. A fairy turning... into a spirit/deity/youkai?

Here's the dialogue:

Eiki	ÒüØÒüåÒÇüÞ▓┤µû╣Òü»Õ░æÒüùÞ┐ÀµâæÒéÆÒüïÒüæÒüÖÒüÄÒéïÒÇé	That's right, you cause a little too much trouble.
Cirno	……	...
Eiki	ÒüØÒü«Òü¥Òü¥ÒüºÒü»ÒÇüÞ▓┤µû╣Òü»Þç¬þäÂÒü«ÕèøÒüºÕàâÒü½ µê╗ÒéîÒü¬ÒüäÒâÇÒâíÒâ╝Òé©ÒéÆÞ▓áÒüåÒüïÒééþƒÑÒéîÒü¬ÒüäÒÇé	At this rate, you will not be able to return to your original power of nature and you may receive damage.
Cirno	ÒüØÒéôÒü¬õ║ïÒü»þäíÒüäÒüúÒüªÒü░ÒÇü µ£ÇÕ╝ÀÒüáÒüù´╝ü	That isn't true! I'm the strongest!
Eiki	ÒüÖÒü¬ÒéÅÒüíÒüØÒéîÒü»µ¡╗ÒÇüÒü¿ÒüäÒüåµäÅÕæ│ÒüºÒüÖÒÇé Þ▓┤µû╣Òü╗Òü¡Òü░ÒÇüÒüìÒüúÒü¿þºüÚüöÒüîÞ▓┤µû╣ÒéÆÞúüÒüÅÒÇé ÒüØÒü«µÖéÒü»ÒÇüÕñ®þòîÒü½ÞíîÒüÅÒüïÒÇüÕ£░þìäÒü½ÞíîÒüÅÒüï…… Òü¥ÒüáÒüØÒüôÒü¥ÒüºÒü»ÕêñÒéëÒü¬ÒüäÒüæÒü®Òü¡ÒÇé	In other words, that means death. If you die, then we will most definitely judge you. At that time, whether you will go to heaven or hell... Well, we don't know that yet.

 

[Andykhang]

Youkai, definitively. You need to be absurdingly strong to be a spirit, and absurdingly famous to be a deity.

By the way, could you count a piece of paper to have an instant Continent Dura?

 

[Lina_Shields]

Stats for Reimu and Marisa have been changed accordingly to the statistics listed above.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Probably. Did hear from Saikou's findings that youkai can become deities but they'll have to take a lot of effort and time to get strong.

Continent Dura what now? Where did that come from?

 

[Andykhang]

Remember the Sub Sun? If you could fire you're bullet through that, what do you think about your bullet's Dura?

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

You know there is two way Reimu could scale to this:

-The bullet surviving the star

-Reimu herself not dying when "dying" in the star

I feel both are Gameplay Mechanic however.

 

[Andykhang]

We're already count Gameplay Mechanic when talking about speed, sooooo.....

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Not the same.

Saying that Reimu not dying to this powerful bullet or the bullets not being destroyed are gameplay mechanic.

 

[Andykhang]

The dying in the star maybe right, but then how do you expect Reimu to attack Okuu when she's inside the sun? Without firing through it?

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

I mean no projectiles ever destroyed the player' shot before, excluding the ones MEANT to block them. Since it's a common gameplay feature, I don't think it should be taken as a feat.

 

[Andykhang]

Yeah, still doesn't explain the last card though.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Again just seems like ZUN didn't think that it would matter if he did it like he always did with projectiles. Thus, a gameplay mechanic oversight

 

[Andykhang]

Oversight or not, there must have been a way for the heroine to fire through the sun like that, since it's not a timeout spell either. (Doubt it was an oversight in the first place, since he said multiple time the last card's property.)