Reimu and Marisa's tiering

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

I have been curious. Neither Marisa or the Mini-Hakkero have any reasoning for their stats. They aren't too outlandish, as Marisa scales to Small Country stuff, but it's still baseless. I know that it may be based on Marisa being able to turns a mountain to ashes, as last time I cacled a Mountain vaporization it gave me country, but I used Mount Everest, so it may be lower with Gensokyo's Mountains.

Secondly, I think Reimu should be downgrade to simply Marisa's tiering. They have been more often than not comparable to each others in powers. The only thing when Reimu was shown as "superior" was with the Netherworld's barrier. However, Reimu has hax specially to deal with barrier, so I really doubt it means Reimu is superior to Marisa. At least not enough to warrant an "at least" rating.

Thoughts?

 

[Promestein]

I actually made a thread for this earlier, so I obviously agree.

There was a calc linked there that put Mountain vaporization as Small Country level, and another one that put it at Country level IIRC

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

As the same with me.

 

[Promestein]

Here's the thread, and the Small Country calc.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Well do you have access to said second calc? If not I'd be best to downgrade the gang to Smol Country

 

[Promestein]

The other calc is in the thread, near the bottom.

No idea if any of these calcs are valid or not, but.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Should we base them on the Small Country calc for now? @Prom

 

[Yamatohime]

No idea if any of these calcs are valid or not, but.

Well, it was made on assumption that "turning to ashes" means vaporization of mass instead of simple melting.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Well it does mention it only applies if we take it as Vap. So I'd be best to hands it to the calc team.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

So bring it to the calc group on both or just the Low 6-B one? @Saikou and Prom

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Marisa scales to Low 6-B already so I'd say only the Country one would be needed.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Fair enough....

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Agreed with Marisa downgrade, disagreed with Reimu downgrade. Mostly because of Main Character rights and how it seems to be repeated on various sources that Reimu is better than Marisa. And the fact that nothing relaly separates PC-98 from Windows since Zun says you should only ignore the old era IF it conflicts with the Windows Era feat.

So yay for planetary bad ending yin yang orbs and planet movings

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Why u bring PC-98 man. It's not even helping your point, Marisa and Reimu traded blows back then.

 

[Andykhang]

I'm going to repost this here:


Ookay, turn out there's a heat capacity for vaporization for granite, so I am just going to tried to calculate this:

(this is based on the stat Yamatohime , and the Vsbattle gave us)

Mount Fuji's volume: 2,470,133,333,333 cubic meter

Granite's vaporizing point: 27050 J/cm^3 = 2,705 * 10^10 J/m^3

Result: = 6.681710667 *10^22 J


Yeah, that's a country alright.


Edit: This is in assumption that thing could vaporize it.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

And in theory Reimu defeated her the first time too. Besides the reason why I brought it up was to show that there's the lack of anything invalidating feats from there to feats from Windows era and how it supports their planetary feats. Then again that's still stuck on purgatory due to good reasons. So in any case, well not agreeing with the nerf on Reimu, but Marisa? Well seems more legit..

Would continue more but I have a migraine so good night.

 

[Promestein]

Reimu being Country level is still baseless.

I'm fine with them both being At least Small Country level. Likely higher may or may not be necessary.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

I'm still in support of that. Prom. Unless we have the calc team look at Andy's mini calc, At least Low 6-B is a go to for me here.

 

[Lina_Shields]

@Prom, Cross:


Just to make sure here, the calculation that has Marisa at country level assumes that the width of Mount Fuji is 50km wide. I would like the source for this.

Meanwhile, it would be better if we pixel scaled this instead:

• Mt. Fuji Height = 130px = 3776m
• Mt. Fuji Width = 708px = 20565m (10282.5m radius)

Using volume of cone:

• V = (Pi)(radius^2)(height/3)
• V = (3.1415)(10282.5^2)(3776/3) = 4.181e11 m^3 (4.181e17 cc)

Using two ends for this; melting and vaporizing: Melting: (4350j/cc)

• Energy = (4350j/cc)(4.1807e17 cc)
• Energy = 1.82e21 Joules; 4.35e11 Tons of TNT
• Large Island level

Vaporizing: (27050j/cc)

• Energy = (27050j/cc)(4.1807e17 cc)
• Energy = 1.13e22 Joules; 2.705e12 Tons of TNT
• Small Country level

Agreeing with Cross and Prom's suggestions.

EDIT: Wait, is Mount Genshokyo based off the Yatsugatake Mountains? Perhaps this value may be bigger...

• Yatsugatake Height = 113px = 2900m
• Yatsugatake Width 1 = 1152px = (14783m radius)
• Yatsugatake Width 2 = 495px = (6352m radius)

Using volume of truncated cone :

• V = 1,071,368,091,815 m^3, or about 1.0714e18 cc

Using two ends for this; melting and vaporizing: Melting: (4350j/cc)

• Energy = (4350j/cc)(1.0714e18 cc)
• Energy = 4.66e21 Joules; 1.114e12 Tons of TNT
• Small Country level

Vaporizing: (27050j/cc)

• Energy = (27050j/cc)(1.0714e18 cc)
• Energy = 2.90e22 Joules; 6.931e12 Tons of TNT
• Small Country level

 

[Yamatohime]

Hm... Mt. Fuji main body diameter is 25-30 miles, all Mt.Fuji is 78 miles. I think it's where 50 km diameter came into calculation.

Pixel scaling is all and good... But science is probably where the author got info. I found Russia and English sites with the same stats.

 

[Lina_Shields]

In this case, the 50km diameter would probably include the flat areas as well, which would not factor into the actual mountain itself.

I only accounted for the sloped parts of the mountains when doing this calculation.

 

[Yamatohime]

In this case, the 50km diameter would probably include the flat areas as well, which would not factor into the actual mountain itself.
I only accounted for the sloped parts of the mountains when doing this calculation.

It's probably include not only flat areas but two other pikes as well. Mountain can have a lot of pikes.

 

[Lina_Shields]

I think I included all the main pikes in both of those calculations.

 

[Yamatohime]

I think I included all the main pikes in both of those calculations.

This pic is probably the best for pixel scaling... Well, actual scaling... It is the right one after all...

P.S.: Site is here.

 

[Yamatohime]

The funny thing... Why we actualy vaporizing mountains to the... Sea level? =)

 

[Andykhang]

All that blast is going to flatten the sea level anyway?

 

[Lina_Shields]

Are you sure about that? Perhaps it's best to assume that destroying Mount Gensokyo means destroying the visible mountain instead of destroying everything down to sea level.

The above values scale to Sakuya, Patchouli, and the rest of the cast anyways due to them High 6-C to Low 6-B.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

This scales to Cirno and Sakuya..? I mean I'm not against Sakuya upgrades but Cirno?

 

[Andykhang]

Funny thing actually, it's due to [[1]]

 

[Lina_Shields]

@Saikou: Whoops, I mean Patchouli and Sakuya.

Anyways, if we are not sure that the entire mountain has been vaporized to sea level (pictures), perhaps it would be better to say that only the visible mountain has been vaporized instead?

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

I think the visible mountain is what most fiction writers means when they say "Mountain" so I agree I guess.

 

[Yamatohime]

Well, acÐüording to maps... Mt.Fuji even ground starts from 500 meters while Mt.Yatsugatake at... 1000 meters.

 

[Andykhang]

I think the visible mountain is what most fiction writers means when they say "Mountain" so I agree I guess.

Problem is as what part count as "visible". Even if you started as even ground, that could still look like a part of the mountain.

Just count the whole mountain sound way easier.

 

[Lina_Shields]

Keep in mind that the even ground that Marisa may have been standing on may have an elevated height to it, as the typical ground that you are standing on may not be exactly at ground level.

Just count the mountain from the actual starting base to the actual peak height, which is what I indicated in the pictures above.

 

[Andykhang]

Well, I support it. it's not like it would change thing very much, since a 20s years old girl wrecking a country is pretty out of the norm anyway.

 

[Lina_Shields]

Just to sum this up, what is the consensus for this topic?

@Prom, Cross: If the calc above were to be accepted, this brings Reimu and Marisa down to Small Country level. I can make the changes towards their profiles if you wish.

 

[Promestein]

Everyone generally seems to agree with the downgrade.

The calc may need a bit more input, but once that's done, feel free @Lina

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Andy seems to support it, that's one. Don't know about Yama and Saikou though....

Them being bumped down to Low 6-B is definitely alright with me.

Edit: Nvrmind, i guess Prom already summed it up...

 

[Lina_Shields]

I am still unsure on where to place Reimu though, since she seems to absolutely dwarf Marisa in terms of power judging by her profile description.

For Reimu, maybe "At least Small Country level, likely higher" sounds good, although I am okay with Country level as well seeing the calc I did for Marisa is ranging at the upper levels of Small Country level anyways.

 

[Andykhang]

On second thought though, couldn't we round up the number to make it Country level? Though I guess the different is too huge to overlook...

Edit: Yeah, 6.9e10 ton of TNT, hard to overlook that. It's 1 Island to another