Regenerationn Page Missing Type Clarification on Souls

[Monarch_Laciel]

And now you're arguing over whether this Mugen thing erased existence or just disintegrates/vapourises/atomises?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

@Knight

1. Missed my point entirely. Again. My point is that other creatures in Soul Society are physical. The whole world is physical. And the characters who are souls still demonstrate inherently physical characteristics such as aging, bleeding, sweating, and reproducing. Ergo, while they are souls in the context of the Bleach Universe, they work entirely differently from the type of soul seem in most every other setting.

2. This isn't grasping at straws, this is just further adding to the pile of evidence that they don't behave in the slightest like souls of other series.

3. Do you even know what a basic Argument From Analogy is? I am illustrating how Soul Society works by raising two examples from different Mythologies / Religions. Just because they're souls and it is the afterlife doesn't mean the should automatically be treated like you are instantly assuming souls to work.

 

[LordGinSama]

@Frantzy12

Is he tho?

First page shows half of Aizen disintegrating. Second scan doesn't show Aizen at all, but also doesn't show the attack from such a close perspective either.

In either case, I noticed something very interesting:

Yes, Aizen is visibly disintegrating. But that by itself is at best cellular-level destruction. We need further proof, such as statements, that he is being destroyed on the Reishi equivalent of atomic or sub-atomic destruction.

The attack disappeared. Aizen also disappeared. My dude, Aizen doesn't have any cells or atoms to regenerate from, again Atoms and Reishi work very differently. Again Aizen is a hollow in this form, Quincy destroy Hollows and the Soul. So Ichigo destroyed his soul no matter how you cut it. You never cease to amaze me with your pseudo Bleach intellect

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Isn't Aizen entirely a spiritual being? Made of spiritual particles only anyway?

He's a spiritual being that ages, bleeds, sweats, can eat and drink, and can have sex and pass down his genes (Thankfully he didn't).

He does not behave in anyway like spiritual beings from other series do.

Spirit Particles (Reishi) are physical. They just differ from how our atoms, protons, neutrons, electrons work because they are the particles from another plane of existence with its own rules. The Cthulhu Mythos is a great example of a fictional universe that has this in abundance.

 

[Kepekley23]

Souls fading away with time isn't anything unheard of in fiction.

Them bleeding is them losing their Reishi. After enough of a loss, they dissipate, such as what happened to Ulquiorra.

Souls having to spend energy isn't unheard of. It's a common trope, including in modern day African religions, where ewntities are portrayed as having limited energy.

Having babies has literally nothing to do with whether they are physical or not. It's a property of theirs.

Reishi is not a psychical substance. Earth-bound souls are non-physical souls, intangible to all but humans with Quincy powers, that stick to Earth for a long time before passing onto Soul Society.

^

 

[LordGinSama]

And now you're arguing over whether this Mugen thing erased existence or just disintegrates/vapourises/atomises?

There's nothing to vaporize that's the point. Furthermore Quincy literally destroy Hollows and the Soul. Ichigo's Mugetsu is a mixture of his Quincy and Shinigami power mixed into one attack. At this point Aizen was part hollow.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

I get where Matt is coming from. Being called a "soul" isn't enough to be a true soul if it doesn't behave as such. If you're not intangible/non-corporeal/different from normal beings at all then it isn't conventionally classified soul destruction, but rather something akin to material destruction.

I was also lead to believe that Aizen was hit by an EE attack, which I think we commented to be incorrect.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

@Knight

Atoms and Reishi can still interact, if weirdly. In fact they're less separate than matter and anti-matter are.

And again, can you cease insulting? It would be much better to simply debate civily.

Can we please move on from semantics. Nobody here disagrees that Shinigamis and Hollows are souls. What I disagree with is the notion that souls in Bleach are like they work in Judeo-Christian Religion, or most mythologies or fictional universes with fictionalized afterlifes. Souls in Bleach are pretty blatantly and demonstrably physical, and the afterlife is more a continuation of the existing life.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Also you can be intangible while still being physical. The Cthulhu Mythos has plenty of creatures that can just phase through everything because their physiology is composed of matter from older space-time continuums, and thus they don't interact with atoms at all. This is illustrated in Call of Cthulhu when the boat just goes through him.

Souls are intangible and don't interact with us in the Living World because of how the Living World works, but they are clearly tangible and solid in Soul Society because that world works under completely different rules.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

IFF Aizen was hit with an EE attack, then sure, I agree with Mid-Godly. Otherwise, I don't agree with anything higher than he currently has. And not because of Matt's reasons (no offense to him). Physical soul beings like this need to be treated the same way we treat beings who have no soul at all, like a robot or 682. These beings exist on a state where complete physical destruction is their complete destruction, which is why Mid-Godly requires that your soul and/or consciousness needs to be erased. Because Bleach characters exist in the way I described above, unless Aizen was hit by an existence erasure Attack, he shouldn't get any Godly regen without confirmation of the destruction of his consciousness.

And yes, that includes Low-Godly. Just like a robot, without confirmation of complete physical destruction, it won't go above High.

I'm sorry if I upset anyone.

 

[Frantzy12]

There isn't even anything that suggests reshi is made of traditional elements or any of that sort. They're literally composed of reshi and reshi isn't made of anything else but spiritual matter and that is all there is to it.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

Yeah I'm in the camp of "no change or Mid-Godly".

All depends on that Erasure confirmation.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Sort of agreed with Cal, but ... Isnt' there something about people who die in the spirit world reincarnating in the human world? Reincarnating after your soul has supposedly been destroyed would imply that wasn't really your soul.

 

[Golden_Void]

You can only be in the soul society if you look like a soul, or if you are a soul. For Ichigo and all other soul reapers, they are souls. The only way a non-soul can enter is if they have their bodies converted into spirit energy.

The problem here is no fiction is allowed to be even somewhat unique, we always force all of them to follow some unofficial fabricated template.

 

[Kepekley23]

Souls in Bleach are intangible and invisible to the Living World, and work similarly to African religions where strong emotional connection leads to a person being bound to a certain location after they die. The soul can also only be perceived by people with Quincy powers

What they do in Soul Society has no bearing on whether they work as souls by our standards or not. You're trying to apply standards that are nonexistent by saying they do "biological things" on their own olane, even though they're blatantly not physical and can only be affected by special weapons on Soul Society.

 

[Onracol]

What about the fact that Aizen has to be sealed and considered immortal in the verse while the likes of Yamamoto with EE exist? Considering Yamamoto feared Yhwach just simply going down to talk to Aizen, he would have certainly used his powers to kill Aizen while he is sealed if he could kill him. Shouldn't this mean Aizen is capable of surviving such attack? Furthermore, Shunsui stated that he would have killed Aizen while he was sealed a long time ago if he could.

 

[LordGinSama]

@Knight

Atoms and Reishi can still interact, if weirdly. In fact they're less separate than matter and anti-matter are.

And again, can you cease insulting? It would be much better to simply debate civily.

Can we please move on from semantics. Nobody here disagrees that Shinigamis and Hollows are souls. What I disagree with is the notion that souls in Bleach are like they work in Judeo-Christian Religion, or most mythologies or fictional universes with fictionalized afterlifes. Souls in Bleach are pretty blatantly and demonstrably physical, and the afterlife is more a continuation of the existing life.

Show me where Reishi and Kishi interact. I'm insulting you because you yourself never cease to push your bias aside and it's because of LordAizenSama and we all know that for a fact. Ranging from not knowing what the Auswählen is, attempting to apply fake weaknesses to the Almighty and now this. The issues is that you act like you're a Bleach expert despite you never having had read the series. Matthew you are not a Bleach expert, nothing close. Not only that but you never stop insulting shit to bait the fans. It's tiring both mentally and physically having to deal with your bias. Multiple people have called you out in it so the evidence speaks volumes for itself.


Bleach souls are intangible as stated here.

humans can't hit Hollows or Shinigami unless you have some form of spiritual awareness like Chad. It's like me saying that a normal human waving around a stick would hit a Hollow at some point. It wouldn't, and you keep bringing up Cthulu like it means something. We're talking about Bleach, not that. Two way different subjects. I'll make myself clear, Matt I don't hate you. What I hate is the arguments that you bring without knowing about the context

 

[Golden_Void]

and/or consciousness needs to be erased.

And/or means both or either, meaning the consciousness isn't a requirement if the soul was destroyed.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Also Aizen literally has an attack that involves destroying atoms, and Reishi Molecules exist.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

@Onracol. While that makes logical sense, the fact that we can't prove that happened makes what you said fall under extrapolation.

 

[LordGinSama]

Also Aizen literally has an attack that involves destroying atoms, and Reishi Molecules exist.

Aizen has no such attack. I'll need scans of this.

 

[Onracol]

@Onracol. While that makes logical sense, the fact that we can't prove that happened makes what you said fall under extrapolation.

Ok got it. Thanks for not eating me alive. These things can get heated haha

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

 

[LordGinSama]

That's Uryu not Aizen. Uryu can do that since he's a Quincy.

 

[Kepekley23]

...Matt, that's Uryu..

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Aizen has no such attack. I'll need scans of this.

Hadou #90 Kurohitsugi has been translated as that.

If you want evidence of Matter and Reishi interacting, read Chapter 70. You can literally convert Kishi into Reishi.

 

[Onracol]

Wait... Uryu was Aizen all along. OMG IT ONLY MAKES SENSE. AIZEN PLANNED THE ARROW THAT TOOK DOWN YHWACH.

 

[Frantzy12]

By the way spiritron is literally another word for reshi buddy.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

You guys are just strawmaning me 100%. My point is that Reishi has molecules, and this isn't the attack I was talking about. Either you debate with me civilly or you just mock me, which you've begun to do extensively.

 

[Kepekley23]

I'm not mocking anyone here.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

By the way spiritron is literally another word for reshi buddy.

Yes, and it has molecules. Super incorporeal souls that have molecules.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

And/or means both or either, meaning the consciousness isn't a requirement if the soul was destroyed.

I put "and/or" there on my own. And I already stated that beings that exist with no soul (beings who exist as souls qualify, because they have no soul within them) would fall under the consciousness part with that. It's no different than denying say, Kit from Knight Rider Mid-Godly Regenerationn if he got wiped off the face of the planet. It's why SCP-682 got his Mid-Godly taken away (if it got returned, it's because of that log of him getting erased from existence). Beings like this need confirmation of either existence erasure or consciousness destruction to receive this level of Regenerationn.

Also, I wanna state as a precaution that all my arguments are of my own beliefs. This isn't due to any anti-Aizen/Bleach bias, or encouragement from Matt, or belief that Mid-Godly Regenerationn should be sacred, or etc.. I know none of you think that (though you probably are now ovo), but I wanted to state that anyway. I know how these kinds of situations can get.

 

[Kepekley23]

What about that?

 

[LordGinSama]

Hadou 90 is the Black Coffin, that has nothing to do with atoms. You proved yourself wrong by assuming Uryu was Aizen.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Ok got it. Thanks for not eating me alive. These things can get heated haha

No probs, man. I know that these things can get heated, and I've been the immature one heating things up before. I've gotten older and more mature since then (and even then, I admittedly slip up) and don't want people to get caught up in that if I can help it.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

@Knight

"Also Aizen literally has an attack that involves destroying atoms, and Reishi Molecules exist."

Hadou #90 refers to the former. Uryu's thing refers to the later. I would appreciate that this strawman cease, either intentionally or not.

 

[Kepekley23]

What attack does Aizen have that destroys atoms?

 

[LordGinSama]

@Knight

"Also Aizen literally has an attack that involves destroying atoms, and Reishi Molecules exist."

Hadou #90 refers to the former. Uryu's thing refers to the later. I would appreciate that this strawman cease, either intentionally or not.

Hadou 90 is the Black Coffin. The scan you posted has nothing to do with said Hadou.

 

[ShrekAlmighty]

Matt didnt think Uryu is Aizen i mean even a random guy with literally no knowledge on bleach would notice a significant difference between the 2 of them.

All Matt was trying to prove with that scan is that "spiritrons" are made out of molecules.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

@Knight


I never said that Hadou 90 = Uryu. I posted said scan to prove my second point. Please stop misinterpreting and strawmanning me.

I also referred to Hadou 90 as the Black Coffin (Only in Japanese) before you did.