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Monarch look at my Urahara scan and tell me what you think about it. It seems like it was ignored by everyone
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Regenerationn Page Missing Type Clarification on Souls
- Thread starter AppleLord
- Start date
- Status
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@Knight
I didn't ignore it. I brought up this exact scene.
It shows that you can convert Kishi into Reishi. Which is nothing shocking when it comes to physical interactions between particles. In fact, you could theoretically even convert matter into antimatter.
I didn't ignore it. I brought up this exact scene.
It shows that you can convert Kishi into Reishi. Which is nothing shocking when it comes to physical interactions between particles. In fact, you could theoretically even convert matter into antimatter.
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@Knight.
Mid-High: The ability to regenerate from being reduced to ash, dust, smoke, or vapor.
Vapor isn't visible. And there's a lot of characters who regenerated from what couldn't be seen yet are rated this level. Kirby, Kracko, Majin Buu, Cryogonal, etc.. And looking at the scans, the Regenerationn might even be Low-High, given we only see the finale from afar and don't know if so much as some blood or a cell survived.
Again, I have no agenda here. Just stating what I think. I had more of an agenda with Relativistic Naruto than I did this. I wanna stay cool with everyone, despite my views.
Mid-High: The ability to regenerate from being reduced to ash, dust, smoke, or vapor.
Vapor isn't visible. And there's a lot of characters who regenerated from what couldn't be seen yet are rated this level. Kirby, Kracko, Majin Buu, Cryogonal, etc.. And looking at the scans, the Regenerationn might even be Low-High, given we only see the finale from afar and don't know if so much as some blood or a cell survived.
Again, I have no agenda here. Just stating what I think. I had more of an agenda with Relativistic Naruto than I did this. I wanna stay cool with everyone, despite my views.
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@Cal
Speaking of cool, it'd be cool if you answered a PM I gave you.
Speaking of cool, it'd be cool if you answered a PM I gave you.
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And completely intangible and invisible in the human world if you don't have soul power yourself.Matthew Schroeder said:
So then Cthulhu shouldn't be rated as intangible because he isn't in his own reality?Matthew Schroeder said:
But he is rated as that. Because in our reality, he is intangible. So why aren't Bleach spirits rated as intangible and invisible in the human world, which they are?
Debunk me? How exactly? I didn't even say anything wrong about it. You're the one arguing that because souls can be affected by temperatures, they show properties similar to physical matter and thus they can't actually be proper souls. I was illustrating how wrong that argument is by providing examples of where souls are affected in ways that they shouldn't be able to because they aren't made of physical matter.Matthew Schroeder said:
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@Apple
That scan doesn't say they don't eat. They also don't get to age because they eventually reincarnate.
That scan doesn't say they don't eat. They also don't get to age because they eventually reincarnate.
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I have absolutely no stake on the Regenerationn thing, but it is incredibly stupid and short sighted to say that Bleach souls aren't actual souls.
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@Matt. Then I just became cooler ovo.
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@Monarch
I think you are still missing my point.
Yes, Bleach souls are intangible and invisible in the Living world, but in the Spirit World they are not only tangible and visible, but made of molecules that work exactly like ours. Even in series where souls are tangible in the Afterlife, they aren't made of molecules that have freezing points.
Bleach characters are still intangible, absolutely, but that doesn't mean their souls can be treated in a way that destroying them warrants Mid-Godly. Destroying a Bleach soul, and said soul re-emerging, at best gives it Low-Godly Regen.
I think you are still missing my point.
Yes, Bleach souls are intangible and invisible in the Living world, but in the Spirit World they are not only tangible and visible, but made of molecules that work exactly like ours. Even in series where souls are tangible in the Afterlife, they aren't made of molecules that have freezing points.
Bleach characters are still intangible, absolutely, but that doesn't mean their souls can be treated in a way that destroying them warrants Mid-Godly. Destroying a Bleach soul, and said soul re-emerging, at best gives it Low-Godly Regen.
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They are tho. But they don't function like souls in any other verse, and destroying a soul in Bleach is still destroying matter. Just a different sort.Monarch Laciel said:
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In all seriousness, only UMR has addressed my points from the opposite side. Everyone's been talking about Matt's posts, when Matt said he agreed with me, along with others. And my posts (except for those two on Rukia) had nothing to do with Matt's arguments. Why is the conversation still on the thing that one, garners controversy, and two, isn't the main reason for disagreement anymore?
If anyone needs refreshing, my arguments were that beings like Aizen who only have their bodies as their makeup need to have confirmation of the destruction of the consciousness or existence erasure. And that because Aizen, whether Matt's right or Knight's right, is made up of some version of molecules, so his Regenerationn from destruction would only be on the level of if it happened to any other soulless being, like Mega Man or SCP-682. It's why Gengar, despite being able to come back after being dispersed like gas and being a soul, would have Mid-High instead of Mid-Godly.
If anyone needs refreshing, my arguments were that beings like Aizen who only have their bodies as their makeup need to have confirmation of the destruction of the consciousness or existence erasure. And that because Aizen, whether Matt's right or Knight's right, is made up of some version of molecules, so his Regenerationn from destruction would only be on the level of if it happened to any other soulless being, like Mega Man or SCP-682. It's why Gengar, despite being able to come back after being dispersed like gas and being a soul, would have Mid-High instead of Mid-Godly.
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Anyway, Quincy are stated to erase the souls of Hollows from existence. Ichigo is a Quincy and Aizen is part hollow. Ergo his regen should still be upgraded regardless.
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I'm pretty sure that Ichigo doesn't do things the full Quincy method so that argument doesn't work.
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Matthew Schroeder said:
There isn't a Quincy method, all their attacks erases the souls of Hollows. Again Mugetsu is a combination of Ichigo's Shinigami and Quincy power and Aizen was part hollow.
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- Thread starter
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They don't eat Matt, here is a quote from the manga use in the data book: (it will be difficult to find the exact chapter for this quote, i can find it if you give me time)
Normal souls without spiritual power don't eat just like in dbz shinigami are a special case.
Normal souls without spiritual power don't eat just like in dbz shinigami are a special case.
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And that is still relevant because? Do you have evidence that Aizen was completely destroyed with no molecules left? "Erase from existence" is often a poetic way of saying something will be throughly destroyed.
If there is proof Aizen's body was no more, Low-Godly is fine. If there isn't, High Regen.
If there is proof Aizen's body was no more, Low-Godly is fine. If there isn't, High Regen.
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@Apple
You do know that this argument just strenghtens my argument, right? Because Shinigami do eat and age.
Also, what is that, a picture for ants?
You do know that this argument just strenghtens my argument, right? Because Shinigami do eat and age.
Also, what is that, a picture for ants?
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Matthew Schroeder said:
Refer to the scans above, the entire reason why Shinigami began killing the Quincy was because Quincy kill the souls of Hollows which was ******* up the Balance of Souls which would lead to the destruction of the world's. It isn't poetic. It literal. The Mugetsu took all of his body and disappeared. Also keep in mind this happened in the Real World, Fake Karakura Town so they'd be intangible
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Bud, actually, I've been meaning to talk to you on this, as I don't think we've @'ed each other yet.Knightofannihilation666 said:
Firstly, I'd need you to provide scans. As I said earlier, I know nothing about Bleach, and your claim is hefty.
Second, correct me if I'm wrong, but Ichigo isn't a full Quincy, so his modus operandi should be different. Which kinda fits well with how he sent Hollows to hell(?) early on. Also, even if so, as you said, Aizen is only part Hollow. It's a leap to say that the full effects of Quincy attacks would happen to Aizen, who's again, correct me if I'm wrong, mostly Shinigami.
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Ichigo doesn't have to use his Quincy powers, he has been using it subconsciously since chapter 1. Tensa Zangetsui is younger Yhwach which is main power Quincy powers, and his hollow form which is a full blown hollow with even the same movement and cero attack is White.
There is indeed valid evidence Zangetsu (Quincy powers) erases, and it's even implied at the end of the chapter where it says he will return everything to nothing via Mugetsu.
There is indeed valid evidence Zangetsu (Quincy powers) erases, and it's even implied at the end of the chapter where it says he will return everything to nothing via Mugetsu.
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@Frantzy. That's kinda my point. Ichigo hasn't Ctrl Alt Del'd every Hollow he's beaten even though his Quincyness has been subconsciously used and has been present from the start.
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@Knight
They wouldn't be intangible to each other. And they would still be made of molecules. My point still stands.
@Apple
I know about the Parrot.
@Frantzy
If there is more evidence of full erasure I can see Low-Godly.
They wouldn't be intangible to each other. And they would still be made of molecules. My point still stands.
@Apple
I know about the Parrot.
@Frantzy
If there is more evidence of full erasure I can see Low-Godly.
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- Thread starter
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Ichigo is part hollow (can use hollow abilities, Quincy abilities, shinigami abilities) all shown in canon.
Aizen was part hollow (what is a hollow? A human soul eaten by other hollows and turn into one of them)
The blade Ichigo use to send him to hell is from Rukia's powers. He didn't have his own blade until later on.
Aizen was part hollow (what is a hollow? A human soul eaten by other hollows and turn into one of them)
The blade Ichigo use to send him to hell is from Rukia's powers. He didn't have his own blade until later on.
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Cal he wouldn't need control of it. Basically like I said the Mugetsu is all of his powers into one final attack. Including his Shinigami powers, his Quincy powers and his Hollow powers. Ichigo was left powerless after it until he got them back. The reason why he didn't delete Hollows before was because unlike with the Mugetsu he wasn't using everything bit of his powers. It's why Zangetsu didn't want Ichigo to use it and Zangetsu is the embodiment of Ichigo's Quincy, Hollow and Shinigami powers.
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If Mugetsu fully erases, then yeah probably Low-Godly seems reasonable.
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If he's dependent on his Reiatsu isn't that type 8 immortality?
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Aizen get.....ge...get...Lo...low-godly!!!??
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That's like giving someone Type 8 for staying alive because of yourself.
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Just a few observations:
1) Matthew has not been impolite or mocking within this thread as far as I can see. He is just an argumentative sort of person with strong opinions about different types of subjects. That is all. There is no need to get overly suspicious about his intentions.
2) That said, our Regenerationn page explicitly states that if a character's soul/entire being is completely destroyed, and he/she/it still comes back, it should be treated as Mid-Godly Regenerationn. I do not think that it matters if the fiction in question starts to define what spirits are made of, whether that is, for example, reishi or protoplasm.
1) Matthew has not been impolite or mocking within this thread as far as I can see. He is just an argumentative sort of person with strong opinions about different types of subjects. That is all. There is no need to get overly suspicious about his intentions.
2) That said, our Regenerationn page explicitly states that if a character's soul/entire being is completely destroyed, and he/she/it still comes back, it should be treated as Mid-Godly Regenerationn. I do not think that it matters if the fiction in question starts to define what spirits are made of, whether that is, for example, reishi or protoplasm.
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Well it's odd to say the least, I'm not sure what it means then.
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@Antvasima
Well, the souls in Bleach aren't exactly incorporeal protoplasm or whatnot. They are molecules and cells, and they age and need to eat (The Shinigami at least), and they react to cold exactly the same as our particles do.
So it ain't exactly fair to give Mid-Godly to something that is so demonstrably physical in practically every way.
However, if Mugetsu does fully erase, then yeah Low-Godly seems fair.
@Frantzy12
Do you think Low-Godly is fair? I'd rather move on with my life eventually here lol
Well, the souls in Bleach aren't exactly incorporeal protoplasm or whatnot. They are molecules and cells, and they age and need to eat (The Shinigami at least), and they react to cold exactly the same as our particles do.
So it ain't exactly fair to give Mid-Godly to something that is so demonstrably physical in practically every way.
However, if Mugetsu does fully erase, then yeah Low-Godly seems fair.
@Frantzy12
Do you think Low-Godly is fair? I'd rather move on with my life eventually here lol
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