Regarding Dugtrio

[AidenBrooks999]

Personally, I'm against Dugtrio's 6-C rating. It just doesn't make sense for it to be about levels like Tyranitar's or even Gyarados.

Instead, I decided to post this:

Extremely powerful, they can DIG through even the hardest ground to a depth of over 60 miles.
	~ Pokedex Entry, Pokemon Silver​

So, I'm not an expert on minery or anything, but even if we assume a diameter of 0.7 mts (Dugtrio's width is similar to it's height) and we use the height of 60 miles (96.56064 km) we get a volume of 37160889200 cm3

And only using rock fragmentation (8 J/cm3), we a result of

297287113600 Joules or 71.0533254 Tons of TNT (City Block level+)

And assuming rock violent fragmentation (69 J/cm3), we a result of

2564101354800 Joules or 612.834932 Tons of TNT (Multi-City Block level+)

And Diglett should be a third of this (Basically, remove the "+" from Dugtrio)

(Also.... If this get accepted, this would affect Brock and others stats, since Jr. Trainer, who is a trainer on Brock's gym, has a Diglett, and Brock should be stronger. In that case, I already have the rescaling in a note, so it wouldn't be a problem if it occurs)

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

So we have a simple Abomasnow above Celebi, a LEGENDARY mind you. But Dugtrio being above normal mons isn't?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Celebs is more oriented in hax. Not power.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Guessing it's the same for Keldeo and Co? Who are all town too, despite being treated as power houses.

Even then, Tyrannitar is above casual 7-A, and a well trained Delibird did a 6-C too.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Keldeo should be High 6-A. Need to make a thread about that.

 

[AidenBrooks999]

Then upgrade Celebi, what you want me to say?

Let's be honest, there are pokemon that are considered extremely powerful without being legendaries and this mole is stronger than them?

Also, Celebi might be a special case, or maybe the calc it's just a low ball (And If you also mentions Delibird, then I cannont tell... Maybe an outlier? Or maybe it's from a different media?)

 

[Cropfist]

I agree with downgrading Dugtrio.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

It's a manga Delibird

 

[AidenBrooks999]

Guessing it's the same for Keldeo and Co? Who are all town too, despite being treated as power houses.
Even then, Tyrannitar is above casual 7-A, and a well trained Delibird did a 6-C too.

Like I said, it could be just a low ball, a feat from other media, or maybe legendaries needs upgrade, or probably said pokemon appeared after this legendaries, so theu look weaker?

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

So you're going to call on outlier for two seperate (and mostly featless) character by using a character being "At least" 7-A? Yes Tyrannitar is considered powerful, but that's because of feats. There is no concrete way of saying that Tyrannitar > Dugtrio.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Keldeo should be High 6-A. Need to make a thread about that.

Didnt Keldeo in its Resolute form also stalemate White/Black Kyurem in the movie? If so then he'd scale higher than Reshiram and Zekrom at their strongest and it'd likely scale to the other swords of justice for being>Keldeo

 

[AidenBrooks999]

So you're going to call on outlier for two seperate (and mostly featless) character by using a character being "At least 7-A"? Yes Tyrannitar is considered powerful, but that's because of feats. There is no concrete way of saying that Tyrannitar > Dugtrio.

Several medias puts Tyranitar and others like Gyarados and Dragonair as really powerful beings, while Dugtrio.... is a trio of moles.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Yet Gyarados is "only" 7-C to 7-B, and Dragonair too. They aren't seen as necessarly more powerful than any species.

If the scaling isn't good enough to assure that Tyrannitar scales to lower Pokémon feats, it shouldn't be good enough to warrant a downgrade imo.

 

[AguilaR101]

The justification for his current rating is pretty weak imo, how many pokemons do not learn the move magnitude and earthquake? considering the in-game earthquake is comparable to an in-game magnitude of 8-9 why shouldn't we use this logic to upgrade every pokemon that can learn it?

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Earthquakes doesn't have a confirmed strength, and very little Pokémon learn Mangitude. And Dugtrio has the Pokédex entry to support it.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Besides whats wrong with a "trio of moles" being OP? They're still pokemon

 

[AguilaR101]

Earthquakes doesn't have a confirmed strength, and very little Pokémon learn Mangitude. And Dugtrio has the Pokédex entry to support it.

"The quakes caused when it walks make even great mountains crumble and change the surrounding terrain".

BW 2 Tyrantar entry.

I admit he is probably not ranked 6-C because no one has bothered to calculate the feat, but no one has done the same for dugtrio so there stands no reason to assume his quakes have 6-C yields, specially with our current methods to calculate earhtquakes.

 

[LordXcano]

Besides whats wrong with a "trio of moles" being OP? They're still pokemo

Well it's kinda like ranking a random mook from Zelda as Continent level because the game requires Link to struggle with them in a clash in order to kill them.

Does it make sense through scaling? Yeah. But the game (and in this case nearly every other media) portrays them as fairly low-tier characters.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Dugtrio is stated to trigger large earthquakes by burrowing. Why are we assuming the absolute highest end? This would put Pokémon like Lickitung among the strongest non-legendaries.

Tyranitar causes earthquakes capable of destroying mountains by simply walking. This is more powerful than any earthquake in recorded history, iirc. It should be well above its current tier, and well above Dugtrio regardless.

 

[AidenBrooks999]

Dugtrio is stated to trigger large earthquakes by burrowing. Why are we assuming the absolute highest end? This would put Pokémon like Lickitung among the strongest non-legendaries.
Tyranitar causes earthquakes capable of destroying mountains by simply walking. This is more powerful than any earthquake in recorded history, iirc. It should be well above its current tier, and well above Dugtrio regardless.

So... Do you agree or disagree with the downgrade

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

So... Do you agree or disagree with the downgrade

Agree.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

"Why assume the absolute high end"

It's not just a calc with a high or low end, any level of Magnitude can happen. A Dugtrio should be able to create even the highest end of Magnitude.

@Xcano The thing is that "A trio of mole" aren't portrayed as being weak. Some Pokédex entry describes them as being "Extremely powerful".

 

[AidenBrooks999]

"Why assume the absolute high end"
It's not just a calc with a high or low end, any level of Magnitude can happen. A Dugtrio should be able to create even the highest end of Magnitude.

Oh yeah, now I get.


Everything comes from that random move.


A LOT of pokemon can learn that. So? Is not special.

Also, "Magnitude 10" c'mon, who said that it affects a big area? A pokemom battlefield is not that big.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Aiden If we measured the AP of pokemon by the size of the battlefield they fight on no non-legendary pokemon would be above 8-B/8-A...

 

[AidenBrooks999]

Earthquakes doesn't have a confirmed strength, and very little Pokémon learn Mangitude. And Dugtrio has the Pokédex entry to support it.

Then pokemon earthquakes are nothing big to say.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Whos to say it isnt? "Battlefields" for pokemon can vary from countless places in the verse, to forests from mountains, etc. Hell a "battlefield" for, lets say, Dialga and Palkia, was an entire ******* universe....

 

[AidenBrooks999]

@Aiden If we measured the AP of pokemon by the size of the battlefield they fight on no non-legendary pokemon would be above 8-B/8-A...

We never make calc on moves.

Only Pokedex entry, except that there are any mountains to destroy/push in the battlefield??


Besides, even Magneton is MCB, and other pokemon are claimed to be City busters.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Earthquakes doesn't have a confirmed strength, and very little Pokémon learn Mangitude. And Dugtrio has the Pokédex entry to support it.

Then pokemon earthquakes are nothing big to say.

There is a calc of Whiscash's Earthquake being Town level

 

[AidenBrooks999]

Whos to say it isnt? "Battlefields" for pokemon can vary from countless places in the verse, to forests from mountains, etc. Hell a "battlefield" for, lets say, Dialga and Palkia, was an entire ******* universe....

Wow. Show me.


Where is the universe-sized Gym?

 

[AidenBrooks999]

There is a calc of Whiscash's Earthquake being Town level

Multi-City Block level*

Consistent with what I posted.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Aiden If we measured the AP of pokemon by the size of the battlefield they fight on no non-legendary pokemon would be above 8-B/8-A...

We never make calc on moves.
Only Pokedex entry, except that there are any mountains to destroy/push in the battlefield??


Besides, even Magneton is MCB, and other pokemon are claimed to be City busters.

The Earth Power, Twister, and Hurricane calcs say otherwise

So...because Machamp doesnt push a mountain and Tyranitar doesnt destroy mountains by walking in battle they wouldnt be if it werent for the pokedex?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Whos to say it isnt? "Battlefields" for pokemon can vary from countless places in the verse, to forests from mountains, etc. Hell a "battlefield" for, lets say, Dialga and Palkia, was an entire ******* universe....

Wow. Show me.


Where is the universe-sized Gym?

Universe-sized gym xD are you being serious?

 

[EnderShadowr215]

@Aiden You do realize we are using -game mechanics- from the Pokemon game series itself right? As @Anime states the battlefield can be a lot of places even a universe. Good bloody example of this is when both Diagla and Palkia clash against each other and they destroyed the said universe they were in and that came from a manga.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

"We never make calc on moves."

...But we do? Earth Power doesn't ring a bell?

 

[AguilaR101]

@Aiden If we measured the AP of pokemon by the size of the battlefield they fight on no non-legendary pokemon would be above 8-B/8-A...

Not really, most pokemon are rated based on pokedex entries/lore rather than moves.

the entry for dugtrio doesn't remotely support the notion of his earthquakes being magnitude 10, and the move itself doesn't have enough evidence to support giving it the yield of a real one.

 

[EnderShadowr215]

And yet we basing this on game mechanics? Well I have to said this as this has gotten my attention already.

 

[AidenBrooks999]

"We never make calc on moves."
...But we do? Earth Power doesn't ring a bell?

Ok then.


Everybody is ******* 6-C, because even a baby Sandshrew can learn it.

 

[AidenBrooks999]

Make your calc.


Just face a fact: 3 mi earthquake have a MCB result, tell me what a earthquake that affect such a samll area can do.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Okay what don't you understand in "Dugtrio's entry support it" and "Magnitude is only learned by a very small amount of Pokémon."

We both have mentions of "huge Earthquakes" and Dugtrio being able to go Magnitude 10.

 

[EnderShadowr215]

Sarcastic remark from Aiden I see. In any case I will show my disapproval on this as of now.