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Regarding Dugtrio
- Thread starter AidenBrooks999
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@Crop Not to sprite a staff member, but I gonna said I disagree with getting game mechanics involved into this as of now.
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Define "huge".Saikou The Lewd King said:
Is a very vague word, tho.
And like I said, if you are going to make justification using Moves like that one, then...
| ''You know what? Thanks. Now Red can be 6-C from the beggining of the game. So 6-B EoS Red is now reasonable. Yey, now, let's get 2-B upgrades for everybody'' | ||
~ Logic. Jumping out of the window |
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Troublesome
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The Pokédex entry isn't enough for a justification, but it greatly help to support the use of Magnitude in Dugtrio's case.
We already do use moves. In this case, Magnitude would only apply to Dugtrio, and likely well trained ones too.
We already do use moves. In this case, Magnitude would only apply to Dugtrio, and likely well trained ones too.
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The Magnitudes should be treated as a AOE attack if we check how much power of the magnitude there is per square feet it should be drastically lower.
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^ That logic could apply to any Earthquakes feats ever, or even just attacks that use AoE. Dugtrio should still be able to produce this amount of energy.
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"Drastically lower" part is what I not so sure on, but I will agree with the AoE as they can affect the area after all. So I take Radical's sugguestion. However is there any instances that will involve Magnitude being used beside the Pokemon game series?
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- #49
"Magnitude would only apply to Dugtrio"
Now that's even more ilogical.
Huge maybe even mean, I don't know, City sized?
6 mi is pretty big for an earthquake.
Now that's even more ilogical.
Huge maybe even mean, I don't know, City sized?
6 mi is pretty big for an earthquake.
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@Saikiou I dont understand, i'm still saying he should be 6-C, all i'm trying to do is show its not as impressive and outliery as people are saying it is when in reality its gonna toss the opponent around at best.(cant say the same for the surrounding area though)
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Magnitude was only used once in the anime, and once in the mangaStarkiller215 said:
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Also, how do you even know that is truly rich scale 10?
Could just be an expression.
Or pokemon houses are immune to damage.
Could just be an expression.
Or pokemon houses are immune to damage.
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@Weekly We could use the anime series for that instance as I want this to resolved without getting that "violent."
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- #54
Magnitude was only used once in the anime, and once in the mangaWeeklyBattles said:
Then it doesn't affect the point of the thread: Game Dugtrio.
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- #55
I not fully get what are you saying.RadicalMrR said:
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Again if we are using game mechanics @Aiden, which we are doing after all, the results will be quite lower. Explain on how the battles goes outside gym battles in the games.
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Did I SAY GYM? xD tho that would be awesomeWeeklyBattles said:
But in all seriousness, I meant just universe period. Like a whole different Universe as their battlefield. Why would 2 god tiers be fighting in a mere gym?
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- #58
If we are assuming that "Magnitude 10" is, for some reason, rich scale, then how after a fight with a Dugtrio, everything didn't collapse or people that lives close doesn't starts to scream and run for their lifes?
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@Anime Aiden said this is for the Game Dugtrio only apparently as stated above.
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@Aiden Game mechanics for pokemon should be taken with a grain of salt considering a pokemon like pichu, which is literally stated to harm itself whenever it uses a semi-powerful attack, can defeat the literal god of the pokemon multiverse, and the universe-destroying concepts of time and space can fight inside a small building without damaging it. If we go by game mechanics and nothing else then literally every pokemon would no reach about 8-B at the very best.
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Originally, this was an upgrade for Red, Brock and others, but for that, I have to make this thread, because, well, Junior (yeah, JUNIOR) has a Diglett with a level sightlt above average, and you beat that and then Brock.Starkiller215 said:
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@Aiden Game Mechanics prevent material destruction for the most part except Rock Smash, but only for small rocks. Good examples will be Gears of War where buildings were never been destroyed even with explosive weaponry and laser weaponry. COD also have Game mechanics that prevent buildings from being destroyed by a air strike most of the time.
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Or 2-B when fighting Arceus and the othersWeeklyBattles said:
As for the "people running around screaming" statement, when have we ever had a diglett fight near ppl in-game? The only places people are most commonly in when in the games are cities, not in like deserts or muddy/earthly area's where Diglett are common to show up.
Besides, we are talking about a verse where normal people are surrounded by pokemon on a daily basis and let their kids go out on adventures with creatures that can always get them killed at any time in many ways. Surely a diglett doing that probably wouldnt be surprising.
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That doesn't stops several characters from beinf casual mountain busters.WeeklyBattles said:
Seriously, even with the pokemon entry, that wouldn't be any higher than MCB, 7-C being gentle.
And the other "proof" is the move Magnitude, which is very vague, is not proved to be true richter scale and low level Sandshrew can learn, but now for a pokedex entry, "It only applies to Dugtrio"
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@Aiden When do you interpet that "it only applies to Dugtrio?" I see.
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Ask Saikou.Starkiller215 said:
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@Aiden Saikou said that this will apply to Dugtrio and other Pokemon (Well trained and has at least one of these Ground type moves in their natural movelist or they have by TMs and HMs). In any case, I will still stand by my points.
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Didn't it take many Digletts/Dugtrios to build a tunnel?
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Hmmm I don't exactly remember when that happened, @Cal, but I think that will not apply to combat at least.
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And using that example of building a tunnel sounds like a non combat thing now I think about it.
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And... This finally went to ridiculous.Starkiller215 said:
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Wild or trained? Also Cal did u see my comment about Keldeo?The real cal howard said:
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@Cal Here is the episode regarding that and the Dugtrios wasn't shown of actually building the tunnel, they help by putting the rocks on their back to the outside: https://youtu.be/zYwyBVMlxNk
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@A4L. Yeah about Keldeo, and I agree.
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@SK. I meant in game for Diglett Tunnel
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@Cal I see. I will look that up on that.
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This thread is getting confusing now, I'll try my best to sort my arguments.
1) Digglet can cause earthquakes as evidenced by the pokedex entry, but says nothing about range/destructivity which are necessary to calculate earthquakes based on our current methodology
2) Digglet can learn the move named magnitude, which can reach up to 10. Based off this people assume the earthquakes digglet causes of course must be real-life magnitude 10 as well
The issue here is the fact that people assume the move itself is comparable to a real earthquake, which is absurd as we have NO evidence of the move having the same scale of a real earthquake, the visuals only show a minimum of shaking that can't be assumed to reach very far, and also fails to display the destructive power an earthquake of that magnitude would have.
People try to handwave this by invoking game-mechanics, but it is a self-defeating argument as we could use this logic to disregard the moves in the first place. which is also pointless as most ratings are derived from pokedex entries by themselves, without the need of in-game moves.
People bring up two examples of moves being used to rate pokemon
1)earth power
2) twister/hurricane
The first is not a good example, we have actual visual evidence of the move raising an specific amount of material from the ground from which we can deduce a mass and work out the kinetic energy, this method isn't even remotely comparable to the one we use for earthquakes.
The second doesn't go out an assume the pokemon created a full fledged natural disaster, and only uses the minimum energy require to produce winds with those speeds and caps them at ~City Block level
TL;DR there is not enough evidence to support digglet having magnitude 10 earthquakes and as such his current 6-C has no ground to stand on.
1) Digglet can cause earthquakes as evidenced by the pokedex entry, but says nothing about range/destructivity which are necessary to calculate earthquakes based on our current methodology
2) Digglet can learn the move named magnitude, which can reach up to 10. Based off this people assume the earthquakes digglet causes of course must be real-life magnitude 10 as well
The issue here is the fact that people assume the move itself is comparable to a real earthquake, which is absurd as we have NO evidence of the move having the same scale of a real earthquake, the visuals only show a minimum of shaking that can't be assumed to reach very far, and also fails to display the destructive power an earthquake of that magnitude would have.
People try to handwave this by invoking game-mechanics, but it is a self-defeating argument as we could use this logic to disregard the moves in the first place. which is also pointless as most ratings are derived from pokedex entries by themselves, without the need of in-game moves.
People bring up two examples of moves being used to rate pokemon
1)earth power
2) twister/hurricane
The first is not a good example, we have actual visual evidence of the move raising an specific amount of material from the ground from which we can deduce a mass and work out the kinetic energy, this method isn't even remotely comparable to the one we use for earthquakes.
The second doesn't go out an assume the pokemon created a full fledged natural disaster, and only uses the minimum energy require to produce winds with those speeds and caps them at ~City Block level
TL;DR there is not enough evidence to support digglet having magnitude 10 earthquakes and as such his current 6-C has no ground to stand on.
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@Aguila The visual effects was shown in-gameplay as it was before including the fact the Earthquake and Magnitude was shaking the screen as well.
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But generally speaking, why should, well, ANY pokemon not be above that of real life capabilities when the pokemon verse in general far surpasses real life to ridiculous levels?
Also @Cal I'll make a thread about Keldeo and then PM u the link
Also @Cal I'll make a thread about Keldeo and then PM u the link
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Shaking the screen =/= shaking the area for hundreds/thousands of kilometers around, this is not enough to support the notion of the earthquake having a realistic scale.Starkiller215 said:
this also ignores the fact that the closer you are to the epicenter you're bound to feel a LOT more shaking.
regardless of what it is being stated, the effects we see displayed can be replicated by a exponentially weaker earthquakes considering the epicenter (dugtrio in this case) here is only a couple of meters away from the observer.
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