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Regarding Asgardian weaponry

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Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan

Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan

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So there's this debate in another thread whether Asgardian weaponry are enhanced or not, and I don't want to derail that thread. Loki/Valkyrie are far higher with weaponry bc Valkyrie impaled Hela, Loki stabbed Kurse. So are Asgardian weaponry enhanced/enchanted in some way?

Yes: Me, ByAsura, Gemmysaur

No: Matthew Schroeder, the Everlasting, Arbitrary Numbers

The Arguments

Yes
"Asgardian weapons are typically enhanced in some way. No normal weapons leave angry red marks that look like they cauterized what they cut. Don't see a reason why Valk's is any different." -Gemmysaur

"In the MCU magic and science are the same on Asgard.

"Your ancestors called it magic; you call it science. I come from a land where they are one and the same thing." " -ByAsura

No
"Sharpness bypassing durability is fallacious unless it's like, a monomolecular blade or something. " -Matthew Schroeder

">High 6-B Valkyrie for impaling Hela

This is inconsistent and you know it. It has nothing to do with sharpened weaponry." -The Everlasting

"It's inconsistent and you know it. You are trying to come up with an excuse to rank the character above the tier they actually are." -Matthew Schroeder

"Dragonfang isn't even some enchanted blade. It's literally just a sword. Saying Valkyrie jumps so absurdly high just by wielding it is ridiculous and not a practice we do." -The Everlasting

"It's just a sharp blade you act like sharp = durability bypassing" -Matthew Schroeder

"No. Dragonfang isn't enchanted. It's just a sword." -Matthew Schroeder

"Exactly. This isn't a special sword. It won't make Valkyrie, an 8-A, harm High 6-Bs without being extremely inconsistent." -The Everlasting
 
I go with the "no". I believe that the MCU is simply overestimating the power of sharp things, like many works of fiction does.
 
Some other feats showcasing this I guess (besides Valkyrie).

Loki stabs Thor with a dagger, normal Asgardians stab a Kurse soldier, Loki stabs Kurse, Hela was stabbed by a random Asgardian warrior (happen at 0:59), Heimdall took down a Dark Elf ship easily , and Thor stabbed through the rainbow bridge with an ancient sword without it breaking, ignoring the sword withstanding Thor's strength the same bridge took a few blows from Thor's hammer and withstood a Dark Elf ship smashing into it (similar ship took this with no damage though tbf the ship in the first gif was damaged when it crashed)


I forget if GotG showed weirdly sharp swords besides the one Reality Stone scene where Gamora stabs Thanos. If it does that could be considered more evidence.
 
Eficiente said:
I go with the "no". I believe that the MCU is simply overestimating the power of sharp things, like many works of fiction does.
Click to expand...
Exactly. That's my argument in another thread, fiction treats sharp things that they can harm far higher beings, but the others called my fiction argument "ridiculous".

However I still think Asgardian weaponry is enhanced in some way.

@Quawedf234 Gamora also cut Groot. Obviously it's just how fiction treats sharp stuff but others somehow think Gamora scales to Groot.
 
Well, I see your point, but to give an example; some DBZ movies do the same with the sun, and this doesn't mean that the sun there is any different than the real one.
 
I guess more stuff is Captain America's shield and Black Panther/Golden Jaguar's claws being unrealistically sharp. But with them that's stated fictional super metal vs unnammed space metal.


> Do you agree fiction treats sharpened weaponry different with the real life though?

Yeah. At least in DC/Marvel stuff to my experince. Post-Crisis Wonder Woman probably has dozens of statments and anti-feats where sharp things or bullets pose a possible threat to her well being.
 
@Spino Yes, we could be giving crazy levels to humans if we let the scaling of this be a thing.

Cap is like, 8-A, but anything higher should not be mentioned in his profile.
 
Ikr.

I'm planning to revise our standards of sharpened weaponry on this site, many people are saying "piercing doesn't bring you that far" and calls my fiction argument "ridiculous". Dude this is fiction, just like KE and conservation of energy doesn't work in fiction.

A semi-related rant, let's get back to the topic of Asgardian weaponry.
 
If we should not count them as a boost in AP, wouldn't we have to scale Loki from Kurse and unarmed Thor from Stormbreaker?
 
This is trying to take a case with one weapon (The Berserker Staff) and apply it to all Asgardian weaponry. I have yet to see any exaples of other weapons behaving like that.

I don't see how magic and science being the same in Asgard proves anything.
 
> I have yet to see any exaples of other weapons behaving like that.

You mean weapons damaging something of a higher tier? I linked all the cases above.
 
This again? It was already rejected. This is just trying to using "Cutting / Piercing Durability" to excuse inconsistent feats, which is Fallacious.
 
The dual swords Bor's berserkers used against the dark elves were visibly glowing.

Gungnir glows red when used by Thor, Loki and Odin. (And in Loki's case, it even makes an electrocution sound)

Heimdall's short swords stabbed through dark elf ships.

Asgardian soldiers' shields visibly display a forcefield when hit by dark elf blasters.
 
Shit like Valkyrie and a random nameless Asgardian soldier stabbing Hela is just stupid but trying to be justified because "their weapons are enchanted".
 
That's because the weapon has special significance since it's, you know, the weapon of the Valkyries, not because it's in some way powerful.
 
Thor found her sword amazing because he recognized it as a Valkyrie's weapon from the Legends, and he thought they didn't exist.
 
List of all known enhanced weapons in Asgarard:

-Mjölnir

-Berserker Staff

-Odin's Spear (forgot the name, uses it to summon bifrost)

-Stormbreaker (not really Asgard but forged in the place where other Asgardian weapons have been forged, also used to summon bifrost)

-Heimdall's Sword (uses sword to summon bifrost)


So those are the ones we have at the very least
 
I think it's probably enchanted, especially since the Valkyries were the only ones to ever wield them, but we don't know what Dragonfang's enchantment is, so we can't assume it has an ultra sharpness thing.
 
The Everlasting said:
This is trying to take a case with one weapon (The Berserker Staff) and apply it to all Asgardian weaponry. I have yet to see any exaples of other weapons behaving like that.

I don't see how magic and science being the same in Asgard proves anything.
Click to expand...
It's not just the Berserker Staff.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
This again? It was already rejected. This is just trying to using "Cutting / Piercing Durability" to excuse inconsistent feats, which is Fallacious.
Click to expand...
Inconsistent? Lower-tier Asgardians consistently stabs higher-tier ones.
 
I just want to point out that by default, sharp/pointed/piercing weaponry can hurt stronger characters compared to dull/bludgeoning weapons of the same tier.

Why? Because the energy absorbed from a weapon like a hammer is absorbed across a great surface area compared to that of a weapon like a spear. It's not out of the question for a 9-C glock to cause damage to a 9-B and even 9-A character.
 
Fiction often wanks the capability of sharpened weaponry. In real life physics of course it also needs strength, but in fiction the capability of sharpness is wanked. Eg. Wolverine shouldn't be able to harm Hulk.

I believe we should treat sharpened weaponry differently in fiction than in the real world. This is not about math/accuracy, but how fiction treats this stuff, just like fiction ignores KE and conservation of energy. I'm planning to make a thread in the future.

Anyway I will stop derailing. Back to topic.
 
I think baseline assumption is to treat and assume all weapons function the same in real life as they do in fiction. If this is disproven through feats (like adamantium claws harming the hulk) then those specific weapons/materials can become an exception, and either scale from the durability of the character they harmed, or are considered outliers. In the Wolverine example you provided it was not considered an outlier because adamantium has consistently demonstrated it's ability to harm not just Hulk but Thor and other heavy hitters as well, so we scaled it to them.

This wiki ultimately revolves around the concept of applying real life physics and calculations in order to determine a fictional characters demonstrated and implied strength, I don't think we should treat it differently in the real world (unless it's demonstrated it functions differently like I said) Therefore, I believe that we treat sharpened weaponry the same as we would treat it in real life.

TLDR: 9-C baseball bat will never kill 9-C Gorilla , 9-C glock will.
 
My 9-C handgun clip will definitely kill if not harm any moderately sized dinosaur, most of which are ranked at 9-B. There's not too many examples seeing as how real life animals stop at 9-B. So yes it harms higher beings in real life, we don't really have examples to say how much higher but it does.

Bears and Crocodiles are also 9-B. I'd wager most people can kill one with a single 9-C glock bullet to the head, let alone harm.
 
I agree, but I think fiction portrays sharpened weaponry even more powerful than that, not just the difference of 1 tier.

Enough derail btw. I will make a thread about how we should treat sharpened weaponry soon. Let's discuss Asgardian weaponry.
 
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