Record of Ragnarok: Whatever the hell happened to this verse

[Axxtentacle]

Also, Zeus consistently in character shows himself getting emotional and destroying things by making himself buff. I don’t see why him watching his own son get his arm chopped off by a human wouldn’t be a more than valid reason to assume that’s what happened here, especially since he’s angry with Ares. Zeus literally killed his pet dragon simply out of anger that the clause of Ragnarok was brought up.

Saying that he “wouldn’t seriously punch his own son” is a complete non-argument if you actually know what Zeus does in the story. If anything, saying he ISN’T seriously punching completely ignores context and is pure headcanon.

Also, you completely ignored this.

 

[Axxtentacle]

Maybe we should delete the RoR pages until we have more concrete feats to scale from? We do not seem to ever make real progress here.

We make progress on some parts, it’s just that there’s a lot to discuss regarding specific feats and scaling, and there’s a lot of disagreements because of how vague the scaling is. This is effectively an overhaul of the whole verse anyway.

 

[Antvasima]

Alright, but we at least need to change any 3-A or Low 2-C statistics to unknown instead.

 

[RoyGundam]

Completely banged up? Him just having bandages on him doesn’t mean he can’t exhibit his strength, especially with the time he’s had to recover. It’s not just a “parental smack of encouragement”, he’s visibly upset about what happens to Heracles, gets upset, and punches Ares for crying in front of him. If there WASN’T any effort behind it, he WOULDN’T GO INTO HIS BUFF FORM.

Complete headcanon right there

 

[Axxtentacle]

Complete headcanon right there

Literally not at all. When he does physical feats out of emotion, such as collapsing the spectator booth he’s in or killing his dragon, he goes into his buff form.

Don’t just claim headcanon without saying why. I’ve given my reasons.

 

[Regidian]

With all due respect, this is a very bad idea.

The fact of Jack surviving a serious attack from from 1st labor Hercules is a easy 5-B durability feat.

5-B feat durability for an attack that don't even destroy a house, i really love the disparity between level and what we see (it's juste a thing a really thing amazing, don't really give much a thing about how you guy tier th aven tough your way to scaling are weird)

 

[Axxtentacle]

I mean, they don’t have to have planetary ranged attacks to have planetary AP.

 

[Axxtentacle]

If we just go off feats, these characters would maximum be Island level because of what Lu Bu did.

 

[RoyGundam]

Literally not at all. When he does physical feats out of emotion, such as collapsing the spectator booth he’s in or killing his dragon, he goes into his buff form.

Absolutely no reason any of that is 5-B

 

[Axxtentacle]

Absolutely no reason any of that is 5-B

Other than scaling with Shiva...

I wasn’t arguing that those feats were 5-B, nice COMPLETE strawman. I was using those as examples of Zeus using his strength against things around him when he becomes angry. I’d prefer if we didn’t try to misrepresent the other’s arguments.

 

[RoyGundam]

I wasn’t arguing that those feats were 5-B, nice COMPLETE strawman. I was using those as examples of Zeus using his strength against things around him when he becomes angry. I’d prefer if we didn’t try to misrepresent the other’s arguments.

His strength, yes ... But what level of strength ? Unknown/Varies. If there is no indication that Zeus casually uses 5-B Tier of strength, then there is no justification for using Zeus' casual blows to scale anyone else to Shiva.

You yourself agree that there is not sufficient reason to believe any of those violent outbursts had Planetary AP behind them

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

The RoR pages are so bad I'd genuinely support deleting them actually, unironically.

 

[Creaturemaster971]

I have no thoughts on deleting or keeping the pages as they stand, but I do think this discussion is going to get cyclical. It may be worth entirely holding off until the current narrative is finished. And I know we don't normally do that, but this series is a bit of an oddball in that regard.

Also considering the tournament setting, there seems to be a general implication that these characters are all on the same level, but specialized. Jack and Kojiro are the weakest fighters, physically, but that doesn't mean they're tiers and tiers lower. If everyone scales to Shiva's final buff and its statements are legitimate (I disagree with both atm) then everyone in the series is 5-B, as nonsensical as that feels.

We also have statements from Loki implying that Volund may come with a buff to the humans as well as a weapon, meaning it's entirely possible that the human characters are indeed buffed to near-god physicality. But that point has only just been brought up and the mechanics are still a complete unknown and any interpretation in either direction is going to be headcanon until further notice.

The Environmental Destruction argument is, as always, a non-issue. Recall the arguments for mountain-level DBZ. Hercules not busting buildings is an asinine argument to make against higher tiers, and the clock falling on him is as well, as we have an entire fight's worth of exposition to indicate that the clock itself had massively more AP than it otherwise would.

 

[RoyGundam]

The issue with the DBZ/S comparisons is that we quite explicitly see massive environmental destruction by characters (typically villains) to whom others scale. On the other hand, Record of Ragnarok scaling hinges almost entirely on one statement

 

[Axxtentacle]

Why are people still saying hype statements? The Narrator doesn’t give hype statements

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Narrator =/= Heimedall.

Heimdall is the guy who says that three different humans are the strongest, says that Zeus is Omnipotent and Omniscient, says that Shiva created the world and destroyed it on a whim, says that Jack the Ripper is the worst killer in history, etc etc

 

[Creaturemaster971]

Sorry, hype statements was the wrong word to use. I'm rereading the series now so I'll re-analze my suspicions about the Shiva statement

 

[Axxtentacle]

The statement for Shiva destroying and recreating the world came from the Narrator

 

[Axxtentacle]

I honestly think we should just stop with the planetary revisions and such for now. It would most likely be better to see where the rest of the 13 strongest gods and humans land, because if they consistently land in planetary ranges as well, then it could work. Same goes for if they don't consistently land in planetary ranges.

Basically, ant's suggestion but we don't delete the profiles.

 

[Creaturemaster971]

Yes but if I recall correctly, which I may not, I believe it was stated that Shiva's final form was "SAID to destroy the world", meaning it falls under a degree of conjecture and would fall below the more concrete feats in terms of priority.

 

[Axxtentacle]

"It is written in the vedas... when the time is fulfilled... Lord Shiva will dance the Tandava, and bring about the destruction of the world. However, there is more to that legend... then Shiva will burn his own body... and recreate the world from it's ashes. This is called... TANDAVA KARMA"

That's what the Narrator says in the manga. What i'm getting from this, is that his original dance, the Tandava, was going to destroy the world, and that this technique is what is supposed to recreate the world.

 

[Creaturemaster971]

I see....

I have no clue how to interpret that, but I am leaning toward the suggestion that we hold off on the planetary stuff

 

[Axxtentacle]

Same. If we get more planetary statements from reliable sources and feats later on, then I would say we could go with planetary. If we get things consistently lower than planetary, than we can put them lower than that, with a "possibly" for characters that have these statements.

 

[Creaturemaster971]

7-B seems like a good assumption for now but either way I say we wait before pulling anything else

 

[Axxtentacle]

7-B comes from, like, 1 calc for Lu Bu's sky splitter, and we have literally no idea how the rest scale to him

 

[InfiniteDay]

7-B comes from, like, 1 calc for Lu Bu's sky splitter, and we have literally no idea how the rest scale to him

Ganges river god feat is 6-B.

 

[Axxtentacle]

True, but with the stabilisation revision recently, that feat might not be applicable anymore.

 

[Creaturemaster971]

Well I am still of the opinion that everyone scales to one another to an extent, so if the feat is valid with Lu Bu I would personally use it

 

[TotalMasterInfinity]

I am in favor of eliminating the RoR character pages, but only for now, they should be kept as a sandbox, I say this because having pages with characters with statistics and abilities on which a consensus has not yet been reached can lead someone to believe that those are the true stats of the characters when they might not be.

 

[Axxtentacle]

I am in favor of eliminating the RoR character pages, but only for now, they should be kept as a sandbox, I say this because having pages with characters with statistics and abilities on which a consensus has not yet been reached can lead someone to believe that those are the true stats of the characters when they might not be.

This sounds fine to me.

 

[RoyGundam]

I think more concrete events will show up. Events that are actually said to have happened in the RoR canon as opposed to the prophecy concerning Shiva. The statement doesn't say that Shiva did destroy the world and recreate it, but rather that he would. Which is why Thor's statement of having killed the World Serpent has more weight behind it IMO

 

[Axxtentacle]

Yeah. Should this thread be closed, or is there non-tier things that still need to be discussed?

 

[Antvasima]

Look, in any case, 3-A or Low 2-C are very unreliable ratings to keep at the moment, and they should be replaced with "possibly higher".

Is somebody willing to apply this change?

 

[PowerToScale]

Look, in any case, 3-A or Low 2-C are very unreliable ratings to keep at the moment, and they should be replaced with "possibly higher".

Is somebody willing to apply this change?

I could

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you. Feel free to do so.

 

[Axxtentacle]

Ok, so that part is done. Is there anything else non-tier related that still needs to be discussed?

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you.

I am not sure. Sorry.

 

[Yar_R_agi_7k]

i didn't see the reason but why zeus at least mft+

 

[Axxtentacle]

For The Fist That Surpassed Time speculation. We have it at "At least MFTL+, possibly Infinite" because of the different interpretations.

 

[Yar_R_agi_7k]

My last question is, doesn't this panel prove that heaven is infinite?