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Real Life Big Animals CRT

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So here are more suggestions

Jaguar​

Since the prey that Pantanal jaguars hunt weigh 299.37072 kg, it’ll be downgraded to just 9-C. Plus they can take little to no damage from other jaguars.

American Alligator​

So because they have an average weight of 227 to 272 kg, they’ll also be downgraded to 9-C.

Anaconda​

So the anaconda scales from the alligator which will be 9-C, same applies for the anaconda, especially by weight (250 kg).

Utahraptor​

So because it weighed >300 kg, it would at least be comparable to a Tiger (306 kg). Not really going by KE, unless there is evidence of Utahraptors tackling each other and withstanding the attack.

Velociraptor​

The claws of a Velociraptor weren’t used to disembowel its prey and are now believed to have been used to restrain its prey and the claws are slightly smaller (6.5 cm) than a Giant Anteater’s claws (10 cm), so I guess it would also be 10-A at least. Also I can't find the estimated bite force of a Velociraptor that even states that it is 1000 psi but I instead found a bite force of 304 newtons for the Velociraptor which I'll be making a calc of sometime later and there'll be an update below after I finish the calc.

Camel​

The bactrian camel will be scaling from withstanding the kick of a horse which is 11.79 kj (9-C+) and camels are at least comparable in weight to a Tiger. So the AP for the camel will range from 9-C to 9-C+. They can make a camel bleed with its bite.
 
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Time for another evaluation of durability & KE of other animals!

Durability factors:
  • The Panniculus Carnosus muscle allows many mammals (with the exception of primates) to have lessened severity of cuts, the ability to heal better from them, & have looser skin. This allows them to bite/claw each other unharmed (Ar). (copy for future pages: “The Panniculus Carnosus muscle allows many mammals (with the exception of primates) to have lessened severity of [https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/cut cuts], the ability to heal better from them, & have looser skin. This allows them to bite/claw each other unharmed<ref name=”PCM”>[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6081499/ The panniculus carnosus muscle: an evolutionary enigma at the intersection of distinct research fields - PMC]</ref>”)
  • If an animal could or did survive an attack over a large surface area with little to no harm, then that would be a valid method of rating durability by it’s definition.
  • Evolution (as stated in the hippo, )
Factors of KE durability:
Problems with durability: surface area (linearing blunt durability with sharp durability will cause, like, inconsistencies since the more force & less area that force is concentrated, the more damage is done via pressure. This allows things with less kinetic energy to penetrate things that have higher blunt force energy (like goats). (put your calc on the ammunition required to penetrate the goat’s skull)) | Bruises (certain animals like dogs can get bruises due to severe blunt force damage, however animal’s design like their thick skin & fur could make bruises unlikely (Ar)) | In ritualistic fights, animals will use ritualized behaviors & may hold back their strength when fighting | T-shirt example: let’s say that in a street fight, a guy with a T-shirt on is punched in the stomach & seems to be unaffected. This could mean that he’s 10-B in durability but the fact that the T-shirt is covering the stomach & stress-induced analgesia could cover potential intestinal damage. TL; DR even if an animal seems to be unaffected by an attack, context matters. Although many animals are bulky enough & evolved to withstand attacks slightly lower than their AP.
Bulldog
Cheetah
Chicken
Domestic Cat
Elephant
Giant Panda
Giraffe
Gorilla
Gray Wolf
Great White Shark
Horse
Husky
Leopard
Lion (Real World)
Polar Bear
Tiger
Triceratops
Tyrannosaurus Rex
Aardvark & Giant Anteater: The same (by example of what usually happens in animal fights with animals that have fighting behavior to each other, they would be visibly unharmed by blunt blows to each other if they didn’t have claws. The Panniculus Carnosus muscle allows many mammals (with the exception of primates) to have looser skin & heal quicker from cuts, allowing them to bite/claw each other unharmed)

Acrocanthosaurus: Lower than it’s AP but still 9-B (Large Size (Type 0), & casually being Class 5 in weight means that they have a lot of surface area & bone strength, meaning that one would survive a baseline 9-B charge from it’s own species or baseline 9-B attack over a wide surface area. However, its palebiology suggests that they are not designed to ram into things at full speed (Ar). They’re slightly smaller than a T. Rex (Ar), but are at the same size as Elephants)

African Buffalo: "9-C, likely higher" in durability & AP (by example of cattle being downgraded in this CRT & not casually exceeding 1 tonne, they should be there (Ar). They should be stronger than a Tiger too)

African Wild Dog: likely 10-B (Should be somewhat comparable through slightly weaker than Eurasian Wolves, somewhat comparable to Coyotes by weight & being one of their closest relatives (Ar))

Alabai: The same (By example of the Husky, Alabais fighting each other would involve them surviving some bites with no injury. They weigh 88-110 lb (39.908-49.885 kg) on average (Ar) (more reliable source), which is more than a weight of a Siberian Husky & on par with a Kangal (A), but can be heavier than a Northwestern Wolf (Gray Wolf) (Ar). Still 10-A. The Panniculus Carnosus muscle allows many mammals (with the exception of primates) to have looser skin, allowing them to bite/claw each other unharmed)

Alligator Snapping Turtle (Carcaas): The same (Has a scan supporting its durability)

Allosaurus: 9-C to likely 9-B in AP & durability (likely weighed on average 4600-5700 lbs (2086.524902-2585.476509 kg) & had an average length of 28 ft (8.5344). The smallest one weighed 2000 lb & was 23 ft long (907.18474 kg in weight & 7.0104 m long). The biggest one was 32 ft (9.7536 m) long (Ar) (lb -> kg is (lb)0.45359237 (Ar). ft to m is (meter)0.3048 (pdf pg 61 (Ar))). Allosaurus’ profile also states that it’s jaw can withstand a 55500 N, which presents a calc idea that can quantify the skull’s AP & durability (as the dino’s gape is likely around or more than a meter in Arc Length). Bigger than the biggest Crocodile (the Saltwater Crocodile) (Ar), who is a species that’s the closest relative to dinosaurs & has skin that can resist knife slashes, arrows & bullets (Ar). It’s size should allow it to withstand attacks on this level when dispersed evenly. If you ask me, 1000-2000 kg weight now is pretty much a crossroads of 9-C & 9-B. & since I’ll be using the Saltwater Crocodile to scale durability, I’ll also review it next. As for the durability feats that are just stamina survival feats, I’ll move them to the stamina section)

Coyote: The same (They fight each other to defend each other’s territory (Ar). Can survive attacks from other Coyotes visibly unharmed & can wrestle other Coyotes (Ar). The Panniculus Carnosus muscle allows many mammals (with the exception of primates) to have looser skin, allowing them to bite/claw each other unharmed)

Hippopotamus: A hippo’s bulk & dense bones would make it so they would be able to survive a casual 9-B baseline tackle without harm, although they don’t routinely ram into each other so they would get at least hurt if they had a full speed tackle towards each other. Bulk would increase the animal’s surface area, weight & hide thickness to where the hippo’s flesh can just casually absorb the energy no problem without any cuts. Dense bones. As a hippo’s been around for millions of years, evolution should’ve maximized the durability of their bones. As stronger bones are able to withstand more force, hippos shouldn’t be damaged if they did a baseline 9-B charge to each other without any fractures without any cuts. I’m confident that they would survive a head-to-head charge with each other because the big surface area of their mouths & dense skull would absorb the impact with little to no damage.
 
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Antvasima said:
This seems good to me, as long as at least one of our calc group members have accepted it.
Click to expand...
2 questions Ant,

Shouldn't we move all the injury stamina feats out of the durability sections of IRL animals? & shouldn't this apply to our character profiles too?

Durability is the ability to be unaffected/unharmed by an amount of force, not surviving injuries you can't be unharmed by.

Also, in this scan, shouldn't we give the horse up to superhuman stamina for the horse in the scan being able to fight for & hour, & still have the will to fight even when the horse was disemboweled?

I reverted the stamina part from my editing session changes.

Also, there's evidence that states that Quarter Hoses can go up to class 5 in LS, "Some individuals can mature less than 58 inches tall. Quarter Horses are rarely used to pull heavier than average weights. They can pull between 1,800 and 2,400 pounds (816 and 1088kg)" shouldn't this upgrade Stock & Thoroughbred horses into "at least class 1?" shouldn't this be applied?
 
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Time for another wave of animals to reevaluate!

American Alligator: Durability is likely 9-C-9-C+ & AP 9-C-9-C+, I agree with R4ndomPlayer315's suggestion too (It’s size, strength & weight (Ar) would make their durability on par with it’s prey comparable in weight to it (like the Wild Boar & American Black Bear (Ar)). As for them taking attacks from other alligators, the animals primarily bite as a way of attacking. As knives can pierce though their Osteoderm skin & thick skulls, them fighting should be more of a stamina feat).

African Buffalo: 9-C+ in durability & AP (by example of cattle being downgraded in this CRT & not casually exceeding 1 tonne, they should be there (Ar). Should be comparable although stronger than bulls (as they're closely related to bovids), as they're 600-907 kg)

Cattle (female+male): 9-C+ in durability & AP (females are literally 360 kg-1100 kg & mature bulls are 450-1800 kg, that's a weight advantage higher than a Grizzly Bear or Black Bear (weights shown in their evaluation section). As they've been shown to deal with a Black Bear, the tier change should be there. Though some bull breeds have been stated to be bred against tougher animals like Grizzly Bears, rhinos & elephants. However it's likely that it would lose the latter & 3rd animal in the list)
Nile Crocodile: Downgrade to 9-C, likely 9-C+ for heavier crocodiles in dura & 9-C-9-C+ in AP for males (occasionally can hunt & bite through animals larger than itself like adult Rhinos & Hippos (Ar), who’s skin is up to 5 cm thick for both animals. Should protect the former from predators (Ar). This includes the claws of the lion, which are 38 mm (3.8 cm) in length (Ar), meaning that a Lion can’t penetrate a hippo’s skin. Has skin that can resist knife slashes, arrows & bullets (Ar). Although there's not too many 9-C+ durability feats & statements, it's high-end weight would make it's durability comparable to it's prey of similar size.

They weigh 500-1650 lb (227-748 kg) & it's stated that they go for prey that's half their weight typically (113.5-374 kg). However, it's stated they can go after bigger animals like African Buffalo & Antelope (likely due to their teeth & quick stealth attacks). The former is 600 kg & comparable to other bovids like cattle. Has the strength to compete with lions in a tug-of war & if either one is bigger, they can dominate the other)

Walrus: change to “9-C+“ in AP & durability. Grizzly bear & kodiak bear: changes to “9-C to 9-C+” tier & durability. Sloth Bear AP & durability: 9-C (The suggestion is from the fact that the Kodiak & Polar Bear is on average heavier than an American Black Bear (who weighs 60-300 kg on average, although can weigh at most 409 kg). Walruses are significantly larger than Polar Bears & american black bears & are shown to be stronger & more durable than them. Why not import the trivia durability feats from my last analysis into there (video on not being able to penetrate their thick hide should be used more)? Much of the bears that overlap with the black bear’s high-end weight as a low end should have “9-C to 9-C+” for their AP & durability ratings (average weights: Polar Bear is 150-700 kg, Sloth Bear is 90-140 kg, Grizzly Bear is 200-300 kg, Kodiak is 400-1500 lb (181-680 kg)))

Saltwater Crocodile: Downgrade to 9-C, likely 9-C+ for heavier crocodiles in dura & 9-C-9-C+ in AP (Has skin that can resist knife slashes, arrows & bullets (Ar). It's high-end weight should make it's durability comparable to it's prey of similar size. Should be comparable or stronger than the Nile Crocodile as they're 76-103 kg on average for females & 408-750 kg for males. Can weigh up to 1200 kg & can take down cattle, wild boars, horses & water buffalos. Stated to have no natural predators)
 
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The suggestions in the last two posts above seem to make sense to me, but I would appreciate well-considered input from other members as well.
 
Antvasima said:
The suggestions in the last two posts above seem to make sense to me, but I would appreciate well-considered input from other members as well.
Click to expand...
TBH, the part about the Sun Bears & Kodiak seems rushed, but the latter should have comparable weight range to a Polar Bear. I'll fix the Sun Bear tier suggestion to 9-C since they're pretty light compared to a Grizzly & comparable to the weight of a Giant Panda (67-160 kg).

edit: appearently, the Sun Bear already has a defined tier, I mistaken the sloth bear source for a Sun Bear. I also refined my suggestions for the bear tiers.

Thanks for the contributions & help here Ant!
 
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I'm done editing my suggestions Ant.

Edit: I'm going to put the list of evaluated animals here so everyone doesn't have to waste their time going through each & every link there.
Total: 39. (note: This list isn't here for evaluation. It's there to keep track of the animals that have been evaluated. However, you're free to question our suggestions.)
Count: 23
Aardvark
Acrocanthosaurus
African Buffalo
African Wild Dog
Alabai
Alligator Snapping Turtle
Allosaurus
American Alligator
Bulldog
Camel
Cattle
Cheetah
Chicken
Coyote
Domestic Cat
Elephant
Giant Anteater
Giant Panda
Giraffe
Gorilla
--20--
Gray Wolf
Great White Shark
Grizzly Bear
Count: 8
Hippopotamus
Horse
Husky
Jaguar
Kodiak Bear
Leopard
Lion (Real World)
Nile Crocodile
Count: 7
Polar Bear
Saltwater Crocodile
Sloth Bear
Tiger
Triceratops
Tyrannosaurus Rex
Utahraptor
Count: 1
Walrus
R4ndomPlayer315 said:
Aight so the calc of the bite energy of Velociraptor is finished, yields >20 joules (10-C)

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:R4ndomPlayer315/Dromaeosaurid_bite_energy
Click to expand...
You fam, what do you think of this? vvv
H3110l12345I20 said:
2 questions Ant,

Shouldn't we move all the injury stamina feats out of the durability sections of IRL animals? & shouldn't this apply to our character profiles too?

Durability is the ability to be unaffected/unharmed by an amount of force, not surviving injuries you can't be unharmed by.

Also, in this scan, shouldn't we give the horse up to superhuman stamina for the horse in the scan being able to fight for & hour, & still have the will to fight even when the horse was disemboweled?

I reverted the stamina part from my editing session changes.

Also, there's evidence that states that Quarter Hoses can go up to class 5 in LS, "Some individuals can mature less than 58 inches tall. Quarter Horses are rarely used to pull heavier than average weights. They can pull between 1,800 and 2,400 pounds (816 and 1088kg)" shouldn't this upgrade Stock & Thoroughbred horses into "at least class 1?" shouldn't this be applied?
Click to expand...
H3110l12345I20 said:
Time for another wave of animals to reevaluate!

American Alligator: Durability is likely 9-C-9-C+ & AP 9-C-9-C+, I agree with R4ndomPlayer315's suggestion too (It’s size, strength & weight (Ar) would make their durability on par with it’s prey comparable in weight to it (like the Wild Boar & American Black Bear (Ar)). As for them taking attacks from other alligators, the animals primarily bite as a way of attacking. As knives can pierce though their Osteoderm skin & thick skulls, them fighting should be more of a stamina feat).

African Buffalo: 9-C+ in durability & AP (by example of cattle being downgraded in this CRT & not casually exceeding 1 tonne, they should be there (Ar). Should be comparable although stronger than bulls (as they're closely related to bovids), as they're 600-907 kg)

Cattle (female+male): 9-C+ in durability & AP (females are literally 360 kg-1100 kg & mature bulls are 450-1800 kg, that's a weight advantage higher than a Grizzly Bear or Black Bear (weights shown in their evaluation section). As they've been shown to deal with a Black Bear, the tier change should be there. Though some bull breeds have been stated to be bred against tougher animals like Grizzly Bears, rhinos & elephants. However it's likely that it would lose the latter & 3rd animal in the list)
Nile Crocodile: Downgrade to 9-C, likely 9-C+ for heavier crocodiles in dura & 9-C-9-C+ in AP for males (occasionally can hunt & bite through animals larger than itself like adult Rhinos & Hippos (Ar), who’s skin is up to 5 cm thick for both animals. Should protect the former from predators (Ar). This includes the claws of the lion, which are 38 mm (3.8 cm) in length (Ar), meaning that a Lion can’t penetrate a hippo’s skin. Has skin that can resist knife slashes, arrows & bullets (Ar). Although there's not too many 9-C+ durability feats & statements, it's high-end weight would make it's durability comparable to it's prey of similar size.

They weigh 500-1650 lb (227-748 kg) & it's stated that they go for prey that's half their weight typically (113.5-374 kg). However, it's stated they can go after bigger animals like African Buffalo & Antelope (likely due to their teeth & quick stealth attacks). The former is 600 kg & comparable to other bovids like cattle. Has the strength to compete with lions in a tug-of war & if either one is bigger, they can dominate the other)

Walrus: change to “9-C+“ in AP & durability. Grizzly bear & kodiak bear: changes to “9-C to 9-C+” tier & durability. Sloth Bear AP & durability: 9-C (The suggestion is from the fact that the Kodiak & Polar Bear is on average heavier than an American Black Bear (who weighs 60-300 kg on average, although can weigh at most 409 kg). Walruses are significantly larger than Polar Bears & american black bears & are shown to be stronger & more durable than them. Why not import the trivia durability feats from my last analysis into there (video on not being able to penetrate their thick hide should be used more)? Much of the bears that overlap with the black bear’s high-end weight as a low end should have “9-C to 9-C+” for their AP & durability ratings (average weights: Polar Bear is 150-700 kg, Sloth Bear is 90-140 kg, Grizzly Bear is 200-300 kg, Kodiak is 400-1500 lb (181-680 kg)))

Saltwater Crocodile: Downgrade to 9-C, likely 9-C+ for heavier crocodiles in dura & 9-C-9-C+ in AP (Has skin that can resist knife slashes, arrows & bullets (Ar). It's high-end weight should make it's durability comparable to it's prey of similar size. Should be comparable or stronger than the Nile Crocodile as they're 76-103 kg on average for females & 408-750 kg for males. Can weigh up to 1200 kg & can take down cattle, wild boars, horses & water buffalos. Stated to have no natural predators)
Click to expand...
 
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It seems fine to me, but we preferably need input from other knowledgeable members here, and calculation blogs always need to be accepted by our calculation group before they are applied.

Which other members have helped out in this thread previously? If you list them, I can call for them afterwards.
 
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Yes, a new thread would be good.

Should we wrap things up here first though?

@Deleted Username

Are you certain that you are not interested anymore?
 
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H3110l12345I20 said:
Leopard: the same (is only slightly harmed by attacks from each other (Ar) for territory (Ar) Can withstand attacks from several subadult Lions before eventually succumbing to one of their bites (Ar). As for the Leopard getting killed by a person with their bare hands, I’ve had experience with making my average human profile blog long enough to know that many of the animals average men killed weren’t old enough to be adults, implying that many of the “10-A” animals weren’t really 10-A in durability. This explanation can even be used for feats that aren’t specific about the animal’s age, & plus I know that some of these animals were lighter than people but humans aren’t strong pound-by-pound either. I think I could find a feat of a man killing a Lion with his bare hands I recall a long time ago but the circumstances were ambiguous, & plus a man beating up a Lion is obviously nigh-impossible if the man relied on his bare hands)
Click to expand...
It depends on species though, females and cape leopards weight much less (35 kg), while the african ones weigh 60 kg to much more :p
 
 
I should make a note that I didn't intend to let anyone see my evaluated animals list. It's there to keep track of the animals that have been evaluated, not for an evaluation.

Everyone should be focusing on this post instead. I decided to put a note there in case anyone wants to save their time. However, they're free to question our suggestions. I've moved & edited the list in the original post to avoid confusion.

I think I should include the Polar Bear to be 9-C to 9-C+ in tiers & durability as well since their weight range is comparable to the aforementioned bears & can weigh less than a grizzly bear on average.
 
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