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Real Life Big Animals CRT

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R4ndomPlayer315 said:
I don’t think a polar bear would be 9-B coming from the fact that they’re scaling from a Kodiak bear by weight which would make them 9-C as they’re capable of hurting a bull and a moose and shown to only have performed 9-C level feats (aside from KE)

There’s an error I see with the calc which is your doing a conversion from pound force-foot to joules, those are units of energy, not force.
Click to expand...
What's wrong with converting lbf ft into J? It's been done with the Tiger on my calc on its AP. Also, J is force times distance. Lb*ft is that in the US customary system.

Since the Tiger is relevant here & my analysis for evaluating the durability of major animals is almost complete, I'll follow with my list in 4 days or less.
 
H3110l12345I20 said:
What's wrong with converting lbf ft into J? It's been done with the Tiger on my calc on its AP. Also, J is force times distance. Lb*ft is that in the US customary system.

Since the Tiger is relevant here & my analysis for evaluating the durability of major animals is almost complete, I'll follow with my list in 4 days or less.
Click to expand...
Again, lb*ft is a unit of energy (of torque), not of force. It’s true that energy=force*distance but the length of a horse leg is longer than a foot.

If we use the length of a horse leg (which is comparable to the length of its front legs and is 1.1799 m) and apply it to the amount of force a horse kick generates (10000 newtons), we’ll just get 11.799 kilojoules (9-C+).
 
So. I'll compare the 2 methods. I think I actually made the error in converting N into lb.

(10000/(4.448222))1*1.355818 = 3047.999853 J, (10000/(4.448222))* 10000*1.1799 = 11799 J (lbf*ft -> Nm is (lbf*ft)1.355818 (pdf pg 65), lbf->N = (lbf)*4.448222 (pdf pg 65), meaning lbf = N/4.448222)

Meh, smells like horse radish lol. I'll take that scan & put it in a blog. Thank you!
 
Antvasima said:
So what are the current conclusions here?
Click to expand...
The horse & these animals in this quoted post will be downgraded to 9-C vvv. I'll reveal my analysis for IRL major animals at thursday/friday.
R4ndomPlayer315 said:
I won't just be evaluating the KE of charging animals but also other animal's AP and durability feats.

Moose​

The current AP is 46513.8682 to 85683.4415 j of KE (9-B) however I don't think they've been shown to survive the impact upon another surface. I've tried to search for a video of a moose surviving a collision against a certain surface but I remained empty handed. There are records that show moose being capable of mauling and overpowering humans. Also its stamina should be at Peak Human since they're able to survive bullets.

Attack Potency: Street level (Capable of overpowering and mauling humans.), Wall level KE (A charging moose has a KE of 46513.8682 to 85683.4415 joules)

Speed: Superhuman (A charging moose can run up to 35 mph)

Lifting Strength: At least Class 1, possibly Class 5 (Elks, which should be comparable in size to moose, can easily wrestle with bisons, which should be comparable to bulls in strength and can have body weights reaching one tonne. Can easily handle their average body weights of over 500 kg)

Striking Strength: Street level

Durability: Street level (Bull moose fight each other during mating season; the only time they're known to herd.)

Stamina: Peak Human (Moose can also survive hunting wounds)

Lion​

So going by the definition of durability, it must be able to withstand attack in order to grant a certain tier. Although lions have been recorded to survive spear and high-caliber rifles, this should be more of a stamina feat. Also I doubt a lioness can even survive being gored by hippo, these things can tear apart a Lion easily. Its shown that Lions can at least get minimum damage by hitting each other and a Lion is slightly weaker than a Tiger.

Durability: Street level+ (Lions can survive paw swipes from other lions but are injured from biting each other.)

Stamina: High (Can hunt and fight with grueling injuries such as a broken jaw or fractured skull, and being impaled or gored by horns. Male lions can fight for a long time. Lions have been known to survive being shot by high-calibre rifles and spears. Lionesses can survive being gored by buffalos and attacks by other lions.)

Bull​

One reason for their durability is that they can survive colliding with each other at top speed but this isn't true, one bull had died in a head on-collision and the KE of a bull is 61202.2553423 - 122404.510685 j given its weight and speed. Also a bull can't survive a car crash.

Attack Potency: Street level (Some cows have been recorded to kill or injure humans; Polled cows were able to deal with a black bear), Wall level via charging (Their weight and speed should generate this much energy while running), higher via piercing damage (Can easily dent cars at top speed) | Street level+ (Can easily gore and disembowel horses and humans, and send them flying in the air. A bull made a starved adult male lion flee. Killed bears and lions in cage fights via charging), Wall level via piercing damage (Can easily damage cars, wooden establishments and dry stone walls)

Durability: At least Street level (Generally fine after being hit by a car) | Street level+ (Very robust and thick bodies.)

Grizzly bear, polar bear, and Kodiak bear​

So because both the bull and moose have been downgraded to 9-C+, this will apply to a grizzly bear, a kodiak bear, and polar bear.
Click to expand...
 
As for the 9-C+ stuff, DarlingAurora has stated that 10000 lbf paw swipes aren't a reliable figure. To me it's a vague statement or an estimate that may not be there.

I'll reveal the tier for the Tiger today or tommorow. I'll do the moose first here.
 
I am ambivalent, but you can probably apply the remaining revisions here now.
 
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Well this is going to be a long one. I just need feed back for this:
List
Factors of KE durability:

Problems with durability: surface area (linearing blunt durability with sharp durability will cause, like, inconsistencies since the more force & less area that force is concentrated, the more damage is done via pressure. This allows things with less kinetic energy to penetrate things that have higher blunt force energy (like goats). (put your calc on the ammunition required to penetrate the goat’s skull)) | Bruises (certain animals like dogs can get bruises due to severe blunt force damage, however animal’s design like their thick skin & fur could make bruises unlikely (Ar)) | In ritualistic fights, animals will use ritualized behaviors & may hold back their strength when fighting | T-shirt example: let’s say that in a street fight, a guy with a T-shirt on is punched in the stomach & seems to be unaffected. This could mean that he’s 10-B in durability but the fact that the T-shirt is covering the stomach & stress-induced analgesia could cover potential intestinal damage. TL; DR even if an animal seems to be unaffected by an attack, context matters. Although many animals are bulky enough & evolved to withstand attacks comparable to or slightly lower than their AP.
Polar Bear durability: 9-C, likely higher (takes little damage after wrestling each other (Ar), big enough males with enough food can afford to casually spar with other males. Superior to Grizzlies, who can wrestle each other with little injury (Ar), & has a skull thick enough to deflect shotgun slugs & rifle shots (Ar), although at the right angle &/or spot, the bullets can shoot through the skull. A bear’s frontal bones of their skull can also stop arrows. Should be bigger & thus have more surface area than Tigers. As for the black bears & other animals of similar size “casually getting up” from car crashes, they routinely die & get severely injured from that (Ar). Still not 9-B).

Trivia: Walruses are unharmed by attacks from Polar Bears (later in the video, it’s shown that even a desperate, hungry Polar Bear can barely harm or overpower a Walrus (up to 3:12)). Also, Grizzlies fight hard during mating season (Ar) so it’s more reason to say that blunt force durability wise.

Cheetah durability: stays the same (males are unharmed in at least a strike against one another in disputes, usually leaving unharmed (Ar)), they trivially do have the stamina to survive multiple wounds from each other (Ar)).

Chicken durability: the same (isn’t harmed by attacks from Goose (Ar)).

Bulldog durability: the same (they’re 10-C, all reasoning from the Husky), trivally, they were originally bred to hold onto bulls’ noses.

Husky durability: 10-B (dogs can have puncture wounds from each other that may seem small or difficult to find under their fur. However they may stop fighting when either one manages to injure one another, implying that to an extent, they’re unaffected by bites to each other (Ar). Should be comparable to other smaller wolves physically (Ar). As an animal that usually relies on biting to attack, Huskies fighting with their mouths without teeth would technically withstand attacks from each other & they’re stronger pound-by-pound (they’re sled dogs) (this is a focus on energy absorption, not the newtons the dogs’ mouths would be subjected to since they would take 0 J since the energy disperses & not opposes the dogs’ mouths back))

Trivia: can harm other Huskies (Ar) & humans (Ar). Humans can fracture the skulls of each other (Ar), which take around 14.1-68.5 J (Ar). Due to the head being more susceptible to impacts that are capable of sending the brain against the walls of the skull (Ar), it’s safe to assume that other parts of the body would be less vulnerable to impacts. A dog’s skin rarely gets bruised due to it’s thick fur & skin (Ar)

Domestic Cat: the same (due to their tier; males fight aggressively with each over females with usually little injury, implying that their durability is weaker than their attack potency. Though this also implies they have the stamina to survive wounds from fights with other cats (Ar))

Elephant: the same (unlike the usual skulls that would easily concuss other animals (i.e. small, smooth-surfaced, & has little cerebrospinal fluid that barely allows movement of the brain & would be shocked by sudden forces) (Ar), the Elephant’s skull solves this problem by being flat, up to 6 inches thick in some areas, & spreading out to create arches at the back (look at the brain part here (Ar)). The head can weigh more than 400 kg & can carry 770 lb with their trunks (Ar). The space combined with the high surface area of the Elephant’s brain & back of the skull allows the biggest Elephants to withstand a basic, baseline 9-B charge towards each other by large surface area & the durability of their skull. Though just because the same force over a concentrated surface area on the Elephant’s skull would fracture the skull, it doesn’t stop any normal Elephant without tusks to survive a baseline 9-B, slower charge towards each other.

On why they would have a body built for charging, they would use it as a bluff attack or as an actual attack out of fear/self defense. They’re unharmed by their own charges. If an Elephant of similar size were to ram the same Elephant in the video I linked in the frontal area, both had no tusks & if the rammed Elephant stood still, both Elephants would be unharmed due to their thick skulls & large surface area. I see the Elephant’s durability staying, we just need to give the justifications for how they would survive charging into each other head first without tusks unharmed.)

Great White White: 9-C to 9-B surprisingly & if my calc gets accepted later on (can be easily harmed (Ar) by a bite of their own species. Their skin is almost 6 in thick & can withstand knife slashes from humans at the top of itself, though is more vulnerable to slashes to the gills or underside (Ar). From the blunt force perspective, they have a high surface area (only reason for them being 9-C blunt-wise. I haven’t put this calc in the evaluations thread, although the weakness of it is that the work in J values relies on a study on them ascending & thrashing at the surface). They wouldn’t be able to harm each other without their teeth & would absorb their attacks due to their skin’s design. Although they would get cuts in their mouths since their skin can casually cut & injure other animals when cut in the direction to the shark’s head (Ar), this is a focus on how much energy an animal would be able to absorb unharmed. They do get injured from full mobbing charges from Bottlenose Dolphins, but usually if they’re of comparable size (Ar). The biggest reliably recorded shark would likely survive the charges with little to injury by size. High surface area+9-B energy spread out on the shark would help out in our case of durability).

Trivia: the sharpness of a shark’s teeth is stated to be comparable to an effective knife like steel or survival knives (Ar). Sharks have camouflage in their habitat if they change their skin colors (Ar)

Horse: 9-C (Should be lower than their attack potency due to many reasons. They’re implied to be capable of harming one another & physically superior to horses in organized horse fights, who can be slightly harmed by each other’s attacks (Ar). In organized horse fights they can harm each other & either use ritualized behaviors or back down before either opponent gets severely injured. Though can’t survive bullets in front of their face, males have thicker skulls than females (Ar). Strong-willed horses can fend off Grizzly Bears of similar strength (the second feat is better since it’s in the wild)) (Ar).

A horse’s kick can transfer more than 10 000 N to a body, being able to fracture human bones & damage intestines (Ar), (10000/(4.448222))1*1.355818 = 3047.999853 J, 10000*1.1799 = 11799 J (9-C+) (lbf*ft -> Nm is (lbf*ft)1.355818 (pdf pg 65), lbf->N = (lbf)*4.448222 (pdf pg 65), meaning lbf = N/4.448222))

Trivia: Source for LS support (though if they’re pulling something without wheels, they can only safely pull 15% of their weight) (Ar), source for enhanced senses (Ar), can fend off Pumas (Ar); although can be easily sliced & killed by them (Ar), can kill black bears of similar size (Ar), has a bite of 500 psi (Ar), their kicks can reach 200 mph (Ar)
Giant Panda: the same (comparable to the Asiatic Black Bear, who’s comparable to American Black Bears due to all the animals overlapping in weight & all of them being bears (pandas included). American Black Bears can charge at each other with little harm)

Giraffe: 9-C (why you guys ask? It’s by the high surface area from it’s size & the fact that a giraffe can do little harm to another giraffe by swinging at the other one’s neck. plus they die when they get struck by a car & fall on another car. Horses can weigh up to 1524 kg & they’ll still be 9-C in durability. For reference, a male Giraffe can weigh 3000 lb (1360.5 kg). Giraffes should be fine at 9-C durability. As horses are being downgraded in AP, Giraffes would likely be downgraded in AP to 9-C & LS to Class 1 to Class 5 as well since both animals have the same psi kick & weight class, although their size could maybe mean that their N & thus J output would increase proportionally due to their hooves being potentially bigger. But they are in the same weight class though.

As for the pack of lions feat, the Giraffe went down because they were able to exhaust it through multiple bites & possibly slashes from them. They got damaged, not a durability feat. TBH there’s not many good 9-B durability feats, we have the horse at 9-C as a max durability due to my suggestions.)

Gorilla: lower than their AP, but still 10-A to 9-C (scans of male Gorillas (Ar) & Orangutans fighting (Ar) & being unaffected/slightly harmed by some blows, although they can hurt each other (Ar). Although some scans of fighting Gorillas took place in zoos, the zoos usually treat the gorillas fairly (Ar). The reason why they fight is for females or to protect against lone silverbacks (Ar). Orangutan males fight each other since they don’t tolerate each other, although they can hurt each other (Ar), through the examples of the Gorilla fights gives us the idea that Orangutan males would be visibly unarmed by certain blows from each other)

Gray Wolf: the same (comparable & can be superior to Huskies physically (Ar). Most of their AP values are above baselines 10-B & 10-A & as shown in the Husky, the Wolf’s durability should likely be slightly lower than their AP since their bites tend to be stronger)

Leopard: the same (is only slightly harmed by attacks from each other (Ar) for territory (Ar) Can withstand attacks from several subadult Lions before eventually succumbing to one of their bites (Ar). As for the Leopard getting killed by a person with their bare hands, I’ve had experience with making my average human profile blog long enough to know that many of the animals average men killed weren’t old enough to be adults, implying that many of the “10-A” animals weren’t really 10-A in durability. This explanation can even be used for feats that aren’t specific about the animal’s age, & plus I know that some of these animals were lighter than people but humans aren’t strong pound-by-pound either. I think I could find a feat of a man killing a Lion with his bare hands I recall a long time ago but the circumstances were ambiguous, & plus a man beating up a Lion is obviously nigh-impossible if the man relied on his bare hands)

Lion: the same (can be visibly unaffected by certain blows from each other (Ar). A lion’s mane protects them from bites of each other as shown in the video & the reason why they would fight is for dominance (Ar). Should be physically superior to their abused counterparts in circuses & zoos (Ar))

Trivia: Should be far faster than a Grizzly in reaction & combat speed (Ar)

Tiger: 9-C, likely higher (In the wild, they’re superior to lions & one can fend off a pride of them (Ar). Should be physically superior to their abused counterparts in circuses & zoos (Ar). If it weren’t for their claws, they would be unaffected by each others’ blows here (Ar). Also, the Tiger was a Tigress, so the male was unaffected by a weaker Tiger’s swipes. There should also be a downgrade in regards to their AP to 9-C since DarlingAurora considered the statement of 10000 lbf to not be very reliable. Still, a playful Tiger’s swipe should be much weaker than a normal swipe. They wouldn’t really harm each other if they didn’t have claws & used playful swipes as shown by the male in the much clearer scan I linked. Though they fight each other in the wild for territory often (Ar)) Trivia: sense the cir

Triceratops: the same (far bigger than the biggest Crocodile (the Saltwater Crocodile) (Ar), who is a part of a species that’s the closest relative to dinosaurs & has skin that can resist knife slashes, arrows & bullets (as a side note, while they could take down a rhino, Rhinos are usually bigger than them & usually have thick skin making them harder prey for crocodiles (Ar). Rhinos usually have no natural predators due to their size & skin (Ar)). At it’s weight, a Triceratops is usually heavier than an Asian Elephant (Ar), which are almost invulnerable to predators as an adult & has Nile Crocodiles in it’s range (Ar). This implies that the Saltwater Crocodile usually wouldn’t try to take one down due to the size of the Triceratops. Fought each other for territory & breeding & likely didn’t charge at opponents (Ar)),

trivia: | weakness: if it was tipped from the side, it would have trouble getting up, leaving it vulnerable to attacks (Ar)

T. Rex: slightly lower (all justifications from the Triceratops; fought each other for mates, status, territory & may other rewards but didn’t want to kill each other (Ar). Is designed as a battering ram (had large heads & thick bodies) (Ar). It was designed to withstand it’s bite, but only with the assistance of it’s anatomy (Ar). It was also capable of doing the cow tipping tactic on Triceratops at casual (likely walking) speeds without injury to it’s head (Ar), although this is just a hypothesis. Calc: 0.5((5400 +8000)/2)(0.44704((2.8+5)/2)((1.5+1.8)/2)^2) = 15900.97252 J (still baseline) (Ar). Due to it’s size & actions, it’s safe to say that the T. Rex’s skull is fairly thick, unintentionally designed & has a lot of surface area to where it would survive a baseline 9-B charge toward each other. Heck, a high-end KE calc is this: 0.5(8000)(0.44704(5)(1.8))^2 = 64749.70276 J (Ar). Still 9-B.

Heck, if a T. Rex stood still & the roof of it’s head was facing a charging T. Rex of a similar size charging 5 mph to it’s head, & the roofs of the heads made flat contact of each other, the pressure would be comparable to the T. Rex casually tipping over the Triceratops. The victim of the charge would take no damage from the kinetic energy of the T. Rex & would be unharmed.

I couldn’t find any trusted sources that they would regularly charge at something solid as a method of attack), trivially could crush certain cars with it’s bite (Ar))

Since @Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan was the original creator of the profile, I wanted to contact them to see if there was evidence of them casually using charges as an attack unharmed. Until then, I see no clear evidence of them being durable enough to not be harmed by their full charges, the statement of them being like battering rams seems vague too.

As for the animals that have durability that’s quite a distance from their tier, if you have a scan/idea from a forum or source that proves that they would be unaffected/damaged at the same tier as their durability, you should post it here.
 
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H3110l12345I20 said:
Well this is going to be a long one. I just need feed back for this:
List
Factors of KE durability:

Problems with durability: surface area (linearing blunt durability with sharp durability will cause, like, inconsistencies since the more force & less area that force is concentrated, the more damage is done via pressure. This allows things with less kinetic energy to penetrate things that have higher blunt force energy (like goats). (put your calc on the ammunition required to penetrate the goat’s skull)) | Bruises (certain animals like dogs can get bruises due to severe blunt force damage, however animal’s design like their thick skin & fur could make bruises unlikely (Ar)) | In ritualistic fights, animals will use ritualized behaviors & may hold back their strength when fighting | T-shirt example: let’s say that in a street fight, a guy with a T-shirt on is punched in the stomach & seems to be unaffected. This could mean that he’s 10-B in durability but the fact that the T-shirt is covering the stomach & stress-induced analgesia could cover potential intestinal damage. TL; DR even if an animal seems to be unaffected by an attack, context matters. Although many animals are bulky enough & evolved to withstand attacks comparable to or slightly lower than their AP.
Coming soon
Coming soon
Click to expand...
I just want to ask everyone here if they want a TL;DR on each animal or my original, long evaluations+trivia.

or is it already good as it is?
 
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H3110l12345I20 said:
Well this is going to be a long one. I just need feed back for this:
List
Factors of KE durability:

Problems with durability: surface area (linearing blunt durability with sharp durability will cause, like, inconsistencies since the more force & less area that force is concentrated, the more damage is done via pressure. This allows things with less kinetic energy to penetrate things that have higher blunt force energy (like goats). (put your calc on the ammunition required to penetrate the goat’s skull)) | Bruises (certain animals like dogs can get bruises due to severe blunt force damage, however animal’s design like their thick skin & fur could make bruises unlikely (Ar)) | In ritualistic fights, animals will use ritualized behaviors & may hold back their strength when fighting | T-shirt example: let’s say that in a street fight, a guy with a T-shirt on is punched in the stomach & seems to be unaffected. This could mean that he’s 10-B in durability but the fact that the T-shirt is covering the stomach & stress-induced analgesia could cover potential intestinal damage. TL; DR even if an animal seems to be unaffected by an attack, context matters. Although many animals are bulky enough & evolved to withstand attacks comparable to or slightly lower than their AP.
Polar Bear durability: 9-C, likely higher (takes little damage after wrestling each other (Ar), big enough males with enough food can afford to casually spar with other males. Superior to Grizzlies, who can wrestle each other with little injury (Ar), & has a skull thick enough to deflect shotgun slugs & rifle shots (Ar), although at the right angle &/or spot, the bullets can shoot through the skull. A bear’s frontal bones of their skull can also stop arrows. Should be bigger & thus have more surface area than Tigers. As for the black bears & other animals of similar size “casually getting up” from car crashes, they routinely die & get severely injured from that (Ar). Still not 9-B).

Trivia: Walruses are unharmed by attacks from Polar Bears (later in the video, it’s shown that even a desperate, hungry Polar Bear can barely harm or overpower a Walrus (up to 3:12)). Also, Grizzlies fight hard during mating season (Ar) so it’s more reason to say that blunt force durability wise.

Cheetah durability: stays the same (males are unharmed in at least a strike against one another in disputes, usually leaving unharmed (Ar)), they trivially do have the stamina to survive multiple wounds from each other (Ar)).

Chicken durability: the same (isn’t harmed by attacks from Goose (Ar)).

Bulldog durability: the same (they’re 10-C, all reasoning from the Husky), trivally, they were originally bred to hold onto bulls’ noses.

Husky durability: 10-B (dogs can have puncture wounds from each other that may seem small or difficult to find under their fur. However they may stop fighting when either one manages to injure one another, implying that to an extent, they’re unaffected by bites to each other (Ar). Should be comparable to other smaller wolves physically (Ar). As an animal that usually relies on biting to attack, Huskies fighting with their mouths without teeth would technically withstand attacks from each other & they’re stronger pound-by-pound (they’re sled dogs) (this is a focus on energy absorption, not the newtons the dogs’ mouths would be subjected to since they would take 0 J since the energy disperses & not opposes the dogs’ mouths back))

Trivia: can harm other Huskies (Ar) & humans (Ar). Humans can fracture the skulls of each other (Ar), which take around 14.1-68.5 J (Ar). Due to the head being more susceptible to impacts that are capable of sending the brain against the walls of the skull (Ar), it’s safe to assume that other parts of the body would be less vulnerable to impacts. A dog’s skin rarely gets bruised due to it’s thick fur & skin (Ar)

Domestic Cat: the same (due to their tier; males fight aggressively with each over females with usually little injury, implying that their durability is weaker than their attack potency. Though this also implies they have the stamina to survive wounds from fights with other cats (Ar))

Elephant: the same (unlike the usual skulls that would easily concuss other animals (i.e. small, smooth-surfaced, & has little cerebrospinal fluid that barely allows movement of the brain & would be shocked by sudden forces) (Ar), the Elephant’s skull solves this problem by being flat, up to 6 inches thick in some areas, & spreading out to create arches at the back (look at the brain part here (Ar)). The head can weigh more than 400 kg & can carry 770 lb with their trunks (Ar). The space combined with the high surface area of the Elephant’s brain & back of the skull allows the biggest Elephants to withstand a basic, baseline 9-B charge by large surface area & the durability of their skull. Though just because the same force over a concentrated surface area on the Elephant’s skull would fracture the skull, it doesn’t stop any normal Elephant without tusks to survive a baseline 9-B, slower charge towards each other.

On why they would have a body built for charging, they would use it as a bluff attack or as an actual attack out of fear/self defense. They’re unharmed by their own charges. If an Elephant of similar size were to ram the same Elephant in the video I linked in the frontal area, both had no tusks & if the rammed Elephant stood still, both Elephants would be unharmed due to their thick skulls & large surface area. I see the Elephant’s durability staying, we just need to give the justifications for how they would survive charging into each other head first without tusks unharmed.)

Great White White: 9-C to 9-B surprisingly & if my calc gets accepted later on (can be easily harmed (Ar) by a bite of their own species. Their skin is almost 6 in thick & can withstand knife slashes from humans at the top of itself, though is more vulnerable to slashes to the gills or underside (Ar). From the blunt force perspective, they have a high surface area (only reason for them being 9-C blunt-wise. I haven’t put this calc in the evaluations thread, although the weakness of it is that the work in J values relies on a study on them ascending & thrashing at the surface). They wouldn’t be able to harm each other without their teeth & would absorb their attacks due to their skin’s design. Although they would get cuts in their mouths since their skin can casually cut & injure other animals when cut in the direction to the shark’s head (Ar), this is a focus on how much energy an animal would be able to absorb unharmed. They do get injured from full mobbing charges from Bottlenose Dolphins, but usually if they’re of comparable size (Ar). The biggest reliably recorded shark would likely survive the charges with little to injury by size. High surface area+9-B energy spread out on the shark would help out in our case of durability).

Trivia: the sharpness of a shark’s teeth is stated to be comparable to an effective knife like steel or survival knives (Ar). Sharks have camouflage in their habitat if they change their skin colors (Ar)

Horse: 9-C (Should be lower than their attack potency due to many reasons. They’re implied to be capable of harming one another & physically superior to horses in organized horse fights, who can be slightly harmed by each other’s attacks (Ar). In organized horse fights they can harm each other & either use ritualized behaviors or back down before either opponent gets severely injured. Though can’t survive bullets in front of their face, males have thicker skulls than females (Ar). Strong-willed horses can fend off Grizzly Bears of similar strength (the second feat is better since it’s in the wild)) (Ar).

A horse’s kick can transfer more than 10 000 N to a body, being able to fracture human bones & damage intestines (Ar), (10000/(4.448222))1*1.355818 = 3047.999853 J, 10000*1.1799 = 11799 J (9-C+) (lbf*ft -> Nm is (lbf*ft)1.355818 (pdf pg 65), lbf->N = (lbf)*4.448222 (pdf pg 65), meaning lbf = N/4.448222))

Trivia: Source for LS support (though if they’re pulling something without wheels, they can only safely pull 15% of their weight) (Ar), source for enhanced senses (Ar), can fend off Pumas (Ar); although can be easily sliced & killed by them (Ar), can kill black bears of similar size (Ar), has a bite of 500 psi (Ar), their kicks can reach 200 mph (Ar)
Giant Panda: the same (comparable to the Asiatic Black Bear, who’s comparable to American Black Bears due to all the animals overlapping in weight & all of them being bears (pandas included). American Black Bears can charge at each other with little harm)

Giraffe: 9-C (why you guys ask? It’s by the high surface area from it’s size & the fact that a giraffe can do little harm to another giraffe by swinging at the other one’s neck. plus they die when they get struck by a car & fall on another car. Horses can weigh up to 1524 kg & they’ll still be 9-C in durability. For reference, a male Giraffe can weigh 3000 lb (1360.5 kg). Giraffes should be fine at 9-C durability. As horses are being downgraded in AP, Giraffes would likely be downgraded in AP to 9-C & LS to Class 1 to Class 5 as well since both animals have the same psi kick & weight class, although their size could maybe mean that their N & thus J output would increase proportionally due to their hooves being potentially bigger. But they are in the same weight class though.

As for the pack of lions feat, the Giraffe went down because they were able to exhaust it through multiple bites & possibly slashes from them. They got damaged, not a durability feat. TBH there’s not many good 9-B durability feats, we have the horse at 9-C as a max durability due to my suggestions.)

Gorilla: lower than their AP, but still 10-A to 9-C (scans of male Gorillas (Ar) & Orangutans fighting (Ar) & being unaffected/slightly harmed by some blows, although they can hurt each other (Ar). Although some scans of fighting Gorillas took place in zoos, the zoos usually treat the gorillas fairly (Ar). The reason why they fight is for females or to protect against lone silverbacks (Ar). Orangutan males fight each other since they don’t tolerate each other, although they can hurt each other (Ar), through the examples of the Gorilla fights gives us the idea that Orangutan males would be visibly unarmed by certain blows from each other)

Gray Wolf: the same (comparable & can be superior to Huskies physically (Ar). Most of their AP values are above baselines 10-B & 10-A & as shown in the Husky, the Wolf’s durability should likely be slightly lower than their AP since their bites tend to be stronger)

Leopard: the same (is only slightly harmed by attacks from each other (Ar) for territory (Ar) Can withstand attacks from several subadult Lions before eventually succumbing to one of their bites (Ar). As for the Leopard getting killed by a person with their bare hands, I’ve had experience with making my average human profile blog long enough to know that many of the animals average men killed weren’t old enough to be adults, implying that many of the “10-A” animals weren’t really 10-A in durability. This explanation can even be used for feats that aren’t specific about the animal’s age, & plus I know that some of these animals were lighter than people but humans aren’t strong pound-by-pound either. I think I could find a feat of a man killing a Lion with his bare hands I recall a long time ago but the circumstances were ambiguous, & plus a man beating up a Lion is obviously nigh-impossible if the man relied on his bare hands)

Lion: the same (can be visibly unaffected by certain blows from each other (Ar). A lion’s mane protects them from bites of each other as shown in the video & the reason why they would fight is for dominance (Ar). Should be physically superior to their abused counterparts in circuses & zoos (Ar))

Trivia: Should be far faster than a Grizzly in reaction & combat speed (Ar)

Tiger: 9-C, likely higher (In the wild, they’re superior to lions & one can fend off a pride of them (Ar). Should be physically superior to their abused counterparts in circuses & zoos (Ar). If it weren’t for their claws, they would be unaffected by each others’ blows here (Ar). Also, the Tiger was a Tigress, so the male was unaffected by a weaker Tiger’s swipes. There should also be a downgrade in regards to their AP to 9-C since DarlingAurora considered the statement of 10000 lbf to not be very reliable. Still, a playful Tiger’s swipe should be much weaker than a normal swipe. They wouldn’t really harm each other if they didn’t have claws & used playful swipes as shown by the male in the much clearer scan I linked. Though they fight each other in the wild for territory often (Ar)) Trivia: sense the cir

Triceratops: the same (far bigger than the biggest Crocodile (the Saltwater Crocodile) (Ar), who is a part of a species that’s the closest relative to dinosaurs & has skin that can resist knife slashes, arrows & bullets (as a side note, while they could take down a rhino, Rhinos are usually bigger than them & usually have thick skin making them harder prey for crocodiles (Ar). Rhinos usually have no natural predators due to their size & skin (Ar)). At it’s weight, a Triceratops is usually heavier than an Asian Elephant (Ar), which are almost invulnerable to predators as an adult & has Nile Crocodiles in it’s range (Ar). This implies that the Saltwater Crocodile usually wouldn’t try to take one down due to the size of the Triceratops. Fought each other for territory & breeding & likely didn’t charge at opponents (Ar)),

trivia: | weakness: if it was tipped from the side, it would have trouble getting up, leaving it vulnerable to attacks (Ar)

T. Rex: slightly lower (all justifications from the Triceratops; fought each other for mates, status, territory & may other rewards but didn’t want to kill each other (Ar). Is designed as a battering ram (had large heads & thick bodies) (Ar). It was designed to withstand it’s bite, but only with the assistance of it’s anatomy (Ar). It was also capable of doing the cow tipping tactic on Triceratops at casual (likely walking) speeds without injury to it’s head (Ar), although this is just a hypothesis. Calc: 0.5((5400 +8000)/2)(0.44704((2.8+5)/2)((1.5+1.8)/2)^2) = 15900.97252 J (still baseline) (Ar). Due to it’s size & actions, it’s safe to say that the T. Rex’s skull is fairly thick, unintentionally designed & has a lot of surface area to where it would survive a baseline 9-B charge toward each other. Heck, a high-end KE calc is this: 0.5(8000)(0.44704(5)(1.8))^2 = 64749.70276 J (Ar). Still 9-B, although I couldn’t find any trusted sources that they would regularly charge at something solid as a method of attack), trivially could crush certain cars with it’s bite (Ar))

Since @Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan was the original creator of the profile, I wanted to contact them to see if there was evidence of them casually using charges as an attack unharmed. Until then, I see no clear evidence of them being durable enough to not be harmed by their full charges, the statement of them being like battering rams seems vague too.

As for the animals that have durability that’s quite a distance from their tier, if you have a scan/idea from a forum or source that proves that they would be unaffected/damaged at the same tier as their durability, you should post it here.
Click to expand...
Updated.
 
H3110l12345I20 said:
Well this is going to be a long one. I just need feed back for this:
List
Factors of KE durability:

Problems with durability: surface area (linearing blunt durability with sharp durability will cause, like, inconsistencies since the more force & less area that force is concentrated, the more damage is done via pressure. This allows things with less kinetic energy to penetrate things that have higher blunt force energy (like goats). (put your calc on the ammunition required to penetrate the goat’s skull)) | Bruises (certain animals like dogs can get bruises due to severe blunt force damage, however animal’s design like their thick skin & fur could make bruises unlikely (Ar)) | In ritualistic fights, animals will use ritualized behaviors & may hold back their strength when fighting | T-shirt example: let’s say that in a street fight, a guy with a T-shirt on is punched in the stomach & seems to be unaffected. This could mean that he’s 10-B in durability but the fact that the T-shirt is covering the stomach & stress-induced analgesia could cover potential intestinal damage. TL; DR even if an animal seems to be unaffected by an attack, context matters. Although many animals are bulky enough & evolved to withstand attacks comparable to or slightly lower than their AP.
Polar Bear durability: 9-C, likely higher (takes little damage after wrestling each other (Ar), big enough males with enough food can afford to casually spar with other males. Superior to Grizzlies, who can wrestle each other with little injury (Ar), & has a skull thick enough to deflect shotgun slugs & rifle shots (Ar), although at the right angle &/or spot, the bullets can shoot through the skull. A bear’s frontal bones of their skull can also stop arrows. Should be bigger & thus have more surface area than Tigers. As for the black bears & other animals of similar size “casually getting up” from car crashes, they routinely die & get severely injured from that (Ar). Still not 9-B).

Trivia: Walruses are unharmed by attacks from Polar Bears (later in the video, it’s shown that even a desperate, hungry Polar Bear can barely harm or overpower a Walrus (up to 3:12)). Also, Grizzlies fight hard during mating season (Ar) so it’s more reason to say that blunt force durability wise.

Cheetah durability: stays the same (males are unharmed in at least a strike against one another in disputes, usually leaving unharmed (Ar)), they trivially do have the stamina to survive multiple wounds from each other (Ar)).

Chicken durability: the same (isn’t harmed by attacks from Goose (Ar)).

Bulldog durability: the same (they’re 10-C, all reasoning from the Husky), trivally, they were originally bred to hold onto bulls’ noses.

Husky durability: 10-B (dogs can have puncture wounds from each other that may seem small or difficult to find under their fur. However they may stop fighting when either one manages to injure one another, implying that to an extent, they’re unaffected by bites to each other (Ar). Should be comparable to other smaller wolves physically (Ar). As an animal that usually relies on biting to attack, Huskies fighting with their mouths without teeth would technically withstand attacks from each other & they’re stronger pound-by-pound (they’re sled dogs) (this is a focus on energy absorption, not the newtons the dogs’ mouths would be subjected to since they would take 0 J since the energy disperses & not opposes the dogs’ mouths back))

Trivia: can harm other Huskies (Ar) & humans (Ar). Humans can fracture the skulls of each other (Ar), which take around 14.1-68.5 J (Ar). Due to the head being more susceptible to impacts that are capable of sending the brain against the walls of the skull (Ar), it’s safe to assume that other parts of the body would be less vulnerable to impacts. A dog’s skin rarely gets bruised due to it’s thick fur & skin (Ar)

Domestic Cat: the same (due to their tier; males fight aggressively with each over females with usually little injury, implying that their durability is weaker than their attack potency. Though this also implies they have the stamina to survive wounds from fights with other cats (Ar))

Elephant: the same (unlike the usual skulls that would easily concuss other animals (i.e. small, smooth-surfaced, & has little cerebrospinal fluid that barely allows movement of the brain & would be shocked by sudden forces) (Ar), the Elephant’s skull solves this problem by being flat, up to 6 inches thick in some areas, & spreading out to create arches at the back (look at the brain part here (Ar)). The head can weigh more than 400 kg & can carry 770 lb with their trunks (Ar). The space combined with the high surface area of the Elephant’s brain & back of the skull allows the biggest Elephants to withstand a basic, baseline 9-B charge towards each other by large surface area & the durability of their skull. Though just because the same force over a concentrated surface area on the Elephant’s skull would fracture the skull, it doesn’t stop any normal Elephant without tusks to survive a baseline 9-B, slower charge towards each other.

On why they would have a body built for charging, they would use it as a bluff attack or as an actual attack out of fear/self defense. They’re unharmed by their own charges. If an Elephant of similar size were to ram the same Elephant in the video I linked in the frontal area, both had no tusks & if the rammed Elephant stood still, both Elephants would be unharmed due to their thick skulls & large surface area. I see the Elephant’s durability staying, we just need to give the justifications for how they would survive charging into each other head first without tusks unharmed.)

Great White White: 9-C to 9-B surprisingly & if my calc gets accepted later on (can be easily harmed (Ar) by a bite of their own species. Their skin is almost 6 in thick & can withstand knife slashes from humans at the top of itself, though is more vulnerable to slashes to the gills or underside (Ar). From the blunt force perspective, they have a high surface area (only reason for them being 9-C blunt-wise. I haven’t put this calc in the evaluations thread, although the weakness of it is that the work in J values relies on a study on them ascending & thrashing at the surface). They wouldn’t be able to harm each other without their teeth & would absorb their attacks due to their skin’s design. Although they would get cuts in their mouths since their skin can casually cut & injure other animals when cut in the direction to the shark’s head (Ar), this is a focus on how much energy an animal would be able to absorb unharmed. They do get injured from full mobbing charges from Bottlenose Dolphins, but usually if they’re of comparable size (Ar). The biggest reliably recorded shark would likely survive the charges with little to injury by size. High surface area+9-B energy spread out on the shark would help out in our case of durability).

Trivia: the sharpness of a shark’s teeth is stated to be comparable to an effective knife like steel or survival knives (Ar). Sharks have camouflage in their habitat if they change their skin colors (Ar)

Horse: 9-C (Should be lower than their attack potency due to many reasons. They’re implied to be capable of harming one another & physically superior to horses in organized horse fights, who can be slightly harmed by each other’s attacks (Ar). In organized horse fights they can harm each other & either use ritualized behaviors or back down before either opponent gets severely injured. Though can’t survive bullets in front of their face, males have thicker skulls than females (Ar). Strong-willed horses can fend off Grizzly Bears of similar strength (the second feat is better since it’s in the wild)) (Ar).

A horse’s kick can transfer more than 10 000 N to a body, being able to fracture human bones & damage intestines (Ar), (10000/(4.448222))1*1.355818 = 3047.999853 J, 10000*1.1799 = 11799 J (9-C+) (lbf*ft -> Nm is (lbf*ft)1.355818 (pdf pg 65), lbf->N = (lbf)*4.448222 (pdf pg 65), meaning lbf = N/4.448222))

Trivia: Source for LS support (though if they’re pulling something without wheels, they can only safely pull 15% of their weight) (Ar), source for enhanced senses (Ar), can fend off Pumas (Ar); although can be easily sliced & killed by them (Ar), can kill black bears of similar size (Ar), has a bite of 500 psi (Ar), their kicks can reach 200 mph (Ar)
Giant Panda: the same (comparable to the Asiatic Black Bear, who’s comparable to American Black Bears due to all the animals overlapping in weight & all of them being bears (pandas included). American Black Bears can charge at each other with little harm)

Giraffe: 9-C (why you guys ask? It’s by the high surface area from it’s size & the fact that a giraffe can do little harm to another giraffe by swinging at the other one’s neck. plus they die when they get struck by a car & fall on another car. Horses can weigh up to 1524 kg & they’ll still be 9-C in durability. For reference, a male Giraffe can weigh 3000 lb (1360.5 kg). Giraffes should be fine at 9-C durability. As horses are being downgraded in AP, Giraffes would likely be downgraded in AP to 9-C & LS to Class 1 to Class 5 as well since both animals have the same psi kick & weight class, although their size could maybe mean that their N & thus J output would increase proportionally due to their hooves being potentially bigger. But they are in the same weight class though.

As for the pack of lions feat, the Giraffe went down because they were able to exhaust it through multiple bites & possibly slashes from them. They got damaged, not a durability feat. TBH there’s not many good 9-B durability feats, we have the horse at 9-C as a max durability due to my suggestions.)

Gorilla: lower than their AP, but still 10-A to 9-C (scans of male Gorillas (Ar) & Orangutans fighting (Ar) & being unaffected/slightly harmed by some blows, although they can hurt each other (Ar). Although some scans of fighting Gorillas took place in zoos, the zoos usually treat the gorillas fairly (Ar). The reason why they fight is for females or to protect against lone silverbacks (Ar). Orangutan males fight each other since they don’t tolerate each other, although they can hurt each other (Ar), through the examples of the Gorilla fights gives us the idea that Orangutan males would be visibly unarmed by certain blows from each other)

Gray Wolf: the same (comparable & can be superior to Huskies physically (Ar). Most of their AP values are above baselines 10-B & 10-A & as shown in the Husky, the Wolf’s durability should likely be slightly lower than their AP since their bites tend to be stronger)

Leopard: the same (is only slightly harmed by attacks from each other (Ar) for territory (Ar) Can withstand attacks from several subadult Lions before eventually succumbing to one of their bites (Ar). As for the Leopard getting killed by a person with their bare hands, I’ve had experience with making my average human profile blog long enough to know that many of the animals average men killed weren’t old enough to be adults, implying that many of the “10-A” animals weren’t really 10-A in durability. This explanation can even be used for feats that aren’t specific about the animal’s age, & plus I know that some of these animals were lighter than people but humans aren’t strong pound-by-pound either. I think I could find a feat of a man killing a Lion with his bare hands I recall a long time ago but the circumstances were ambiguous, & plus a man beating up a Lion is obviously nigh-impossible if the man relied on his bare hands)

Lion: the same (can be visibly unaffected by certain blows from each other (Ar). A lion’s mane protects them from bites of each other as shown in the video & the reason why they would fight is for dominance (Ar). Should be physically superior to their abused counterparts in circuses & zoos (Ar))

Trivia: Should be far faster than a Grizzly in reaction & combat speed (Ar)

Tiger: 9-C, likely higher (In the wild, they’re superior to lions & one can fend off a pride of them (Ar). Should be physically superior to their abused counterparts in circuses & zoos (Ar). If it weren’t for their claws, they would be unaffected by each others’ blows here (Ar). Also, the Tiger was a Tigress, so the male was unaffected by a weaker Tiger’s swipes. There should also be a downgrade in regards to their AP to 9-C since DarlingAurora considered the statement of 10000 lbf to not be very reliable. Still, a playful Tiger’s swipe should be much weaker than a normal swipe. They wouldn’t really harm each other if they didn’t have claws & used playful swipes as shown by the male in the much clearer scan I linked. Though they fight each other in the wild for territory often (Ar)) Trivia: sense the cir

Triceratops: the same (far bigger than the biggest Crocodile (the Saltwater Crocodile) (Ar), who is a part of a species that’s the closest relative to dinosaurs & has skin that can resist knife slashes, arrows & bullets (as a side note, while they could take down a rhino, Rhinos are usually bigger than them & usually have thick skin making them harder prey for crocodiles (Ar). Rhinos usually have no natural predators due to their size & skin (Ar)). At it’s weight, a Triceratops is usually heavier than an Asian Elephant (Ar), which are almost invulnerable to predators as an adult & has Nile Crocodiles in it’s range (Ar). This implies that the Saltwater Crocodile usually wouldn’t try to take one down due to the size of the Triceratops. Fought each other for territory & breeding & likely didn’t charge at opponents (Ar)),

trivia: | weakness: if it was tipped from the side, it would have trouble getting up, leaving it vulnerable to attacks (Ar)

T. Rex: slightly lower (all justifications from the Triceratops; fought each other for mates, status, territory & may other rewards but didn’t want to kill each other (Ar). Is designed as a battering ram (had large heads & thick bodies) (Ar). It was designed to withstand it’s bite, but only with the assistance of it’s anatomy (Ar). It was also capable of doing the cow tipping tactic on Triceratops at casual (likely walking) speeds without injury to it’s head (Ar), although this is just a hypothesis. Calc: 0.5((5400 +8000)/2)(0.44704((2.8+5)/2)((1.5+1.8)/2)^2) = 15900.97252 J (still baseline) (Ar). Due to it’s size & actions, it’s safe to say that the T. Rex’s skull is fairly thick, unintentionally designed & has a lot of surface area to where it would survive a baseline 9-B charge toward each other. Heck, a high-end KE calc is this: 0.5(8000)(0.44704(5)(1.8))^2 = 64749.70276 J (Ar). Still 9-B.

Heck, if a T. Rex stood still & the roof of it’s head was facing a charging T. Rex of a similar size charging 5 mph to it’s head, & the roofs of the heads made flat contact of each other, the pressure would be comparable to the T. Rex casually tipping over the Triceratops. The victim of the charge would take no damage from the kinetic energy of the T. Rex & would be unharmed.

I couldn’t find any trusted sources that they would regularly charge at something solid as a method of attack), trivially could crush certain cars with it’s bite (Ar))

Since @Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan was the original creator of the profile, I wanted to contact them to see if there was evidence of them casually using charges as an attack unharmed. Until then, I see no clear evidence of them being durable enough to not be harmed by their full charges, the statement of them being like battering rams seems vague too.

As for the animals that have durability that’s quite a distance from their tier, if you have a scan/idea from a forum or source that proves that they would be unaffected/damaged at the same tier as their durability, you should post it here.
Click to expand...
Looks good.
 
Last edited:
R4ndomPlayer315 said:
I found other feats that can compare to the tiger since the 10000 lbf value has been questioned. Feats such as lions breaking a bone as shown in this study which would still place it at 9-C+ as breaking a bone would yield 9920 joules when applied over 50 degrees.
Click to expand...
The reason why casual bone breaking is at 9-C is from breaking a femur in the study. Tibias should be slightly weaker than a femur, although it does casually help support the person's body when standing up. Still 9-C+. Though I'm planning to make a CRT discussion on the fact that the type of bone is also a factor in bone breaking, since you can casually fracture a skull with 10-C energy.
 
R4ndomPlayer315 said:
Aight.
Click to expand...
Though we should factor in that a Lion's swipe force is at around 400 lbf, assuming that's in a ft: (lbf*ft -> Nm is (lbf*ft)1.355818 (pdf pg 65), so 400*1.355818=542.3272 J). Though the Lion's size means that this could be higher. But now to think of it, 9-C+ is a bit too high. 9-C is still consistent.

With all the calcs here, I should do a blog of assorted feats for major animals.
 
R4ndomPlayer315 said:
So I found 2 sources that suggest a much higher value.

For the lion, it is stated to have generated 4500 - 27500 lbs-ft/s and for the tiger, it is stated to have generated 7000 - 33500 lbs-ft/s.

I did a calc on it and it ranged from 9-C to 9-C+.
Click to expand...
Earlier in this thread, those sources by wildlife boss was disapproved by Spino since it used the momentum of the animals rather than the limbs to calculate the results.

"Note: The average striking force above is calculated based on the average tiger weight multiplied by the maximum speed tigers can reach (50 mph)"

It literally says that on the Tiger's page for the value. Spino stated that it was like calculating the kinetic energy of something.
 
H3110l12345I20 said:
Earlier in this thread, those sources by wildlife boss was disapproved by Spino since it used the momentum of the animals rather than the limbs to calculate the results.

"Note: The average striking force above is calculated based on the average tiger weight multiplied by the maximum speed tigers can reach (50 mph)"

It literally says that on the Tiger's page for the value. Spino stated that it was like calculating the kinetic energy of something.
Click to expand...
K
 
R4ndomPlayer315 said:
So I made an update by using the 1400 lbf value and got 4.3 kj by using the arm length of a tiger but then I assumed it could be 2x that much force if it expended its entire strength mainly because it was being playful when it was estimated. Should we use the high end or the low end?
Click to expand...
where do you find the arm length of the Tigers & other animals? & plus, I'm already doing a list of calcs for major animals & Tiger swipe energy.

low-end just to be safe btw.

Durability wise, if a Tiger did a playful swipe against another Tiger, the victim Tiger realistically wouldn't get hurt.
 
Antvasima said:
The new suggestions here seem fine to apply.
Click to expand...
Cool! However, I'll need to finish the calcs here first on major animals before I can apply the calc related changes as per wiki standard & do the edits & modernizing ones in a sandbox.

Same with @R4ndomPlayer315 & their calc on the Lion & Tiger paw swipe.

Also, shouldn't I clean up the pages from citation overkill without taking out any reference links from a reference section entirely?

I didn't realize it then, but too many references lessens the readability of a section as per example of Wikipedia's official page on citation overkill. I know we have an example of not taking out existing info, but if any links of a reference section don't get taken out & the page gets easier to read, then would it be acceptable?
 
Well, I do not mind lots of valid references, but duplicate instances should lead to the same bottom reference.

See here for instructions:

vsbattles.fandom.com

References

References is a section in character profiles where the source references can be shown. They should be used whenever and wherever possible to increase the reliability of the information presented in the pages and to improve the overall quality of this wiki. To use them, switch to the source...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
 
Antvasima said:
Well, I do not mind lots of valid references, but duplicate instances should lead to the same bottom reference.

See here for instructions:

vsbattles.fandom.com

References

References is a section in character profiles where the source references can be shown. They should be used whenever and wherever possible to increase the reliability of the information presented in the pages and to improve the overall quality of this wiki. To use them, switch to the source...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
Click to expand...
As seen in wikipedia's page for citation overkill, citation overkill can in some circumstances make a section of info less reliable.

Thank you for the feedback! I'll update the quality of the pages if I can!
 
R4ndomPlayer315 said:
Hold on, isn’t that 400 lbf value of a lion paw swipe from a blog post?
Click to expand...
Yes, however, I've only managed to find 2 sources from wildlife enthusiasts on the lion paw swipe (best sources I could find).

One says 400 lbf & another says 1400 lbf.

Also, I have a group of calcs that require pixel measurements to be done. I'll do the calcs pasted here (minus the Lion & Tiger ones) & the bite energy of animals that don't require pixel measurement while you can do the ones that require pixel measurements. I've done the research for you on the latter & if done right, the bite energy can actually provide nice supporting ratings on the profiles as per example set by DarlingAurora.

However, I want pixel measurement experience on my own & I want to do pixel measurements on the T. Rex to calc it's bite energy. Do you want to let me calc the T. Rex bite energy?
 
H3110l12345I20 said:
Yes, however, I've only managed to find 2 sources from wildlife enthusiasts on the lion paw swipe (best sources I could find).

One says 400 lbf & another says 1400 lbf.
Click to expand...
Aight
H3110l12345I20 said:
Also, I have a group of calcs that require pixel measurements to be done. I'll do the calcs pasted here (minus the Lion & Tiger ones) & the bite energy of animals that don't require pixel measurement while you can do the ones that require pixel measurements. I've done the research for you on the latter & if done right, the bite energy can actually provide nice supporting ratings on the profiles as per example set by DarlingAurora.

However, I want pixel measurement experience on my own & I want to do pixel measurements on the T. Rex to calc it's bite energy. Do you want to let me calc the T. Rex bite energy?
Click to expand...
Sure
 
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