Real Life Big Animals CRT 2

[H3110l12345I20]

Continuing from here, also my current suggestions here & on the Polar Bear's tier need to be evaluated.

Also, I'll need the American Bison's durability to have some support for it's own kinetic energy. But I'll post it later if I have the chance.

This is finished here:
American Bison: 9-B in AP & durability surprisingly for it's weight class, higher KE (There should be a link to it tanking a bull cattle charge to the head which the link is here. Although a scan of 2 buffalos instantly dying does exist, they're stated to be stronger than cattle, regularly butt heads against each other, & has a thick skull (their skull's frontal bones are up to 3.8 cm thick, consistent with the statement that their bones are 10 times harder than beef bones). They do charge at each other to display their fitness, but not to the death. It's hard to say that they can withstand a full head-to-head collision with each other despite their thick skulls. However, there is this instance of one Bison withstanding a charge from another one, so they do scale to the durability of their charges if one charged at a still one at full speed.

The scan for one withstanding ramming against a smaller, weaker bull still exists in the WABAC Machine. However, the bull was smaller)

 

[Dalesean027]

Following

 

[Antvasima]

What was accepted towards the end of our preceding thread can probably be applied now.

 

[H3110l12345I20]

I'll put a reminder to everyone here & a person who's doing the heavy lifting for this CRT. I'm trying to spread out my time on VSBW over several days to do other things & trying to schedule the times I do my revisions.

I'll put my reevaluations for at least 4 animals when I have the time on Tuesday.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for helping out. It is very appreciated.

 

[H3110l12345I20]

Spoiler: Factors

• The Panniculus Carnosus muscle allows many mammals (with the exception of primates) to have lessened severity of cuts, the ability to heal better from them, & have looser skin. This allows them to bite/claw each other unharmed (Ar). (copy for future pages: “The Panniculus Carnosus muscle allows many mammals (with the exception of primates) to have lessened severity of [https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/cut cuts], the ability to heal better from them, & have looser skin. This allows them to bite/claw each other unharmed<ref name=”PCM”>[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6081499/ The panniculus carnosus muscle: an evolutionary enigma at the intersection of distinct research fields - PMC]</ref>”)
• If an animal could or did survive an attack over a large surface area with little to no harm, then that would be a valid method of rating durability by it’s definition.
• Evolution (as stated in the hippo, )

Factors of KE durability:

• Design & surface area of front area dispersing energy. The more surface area, the more likely an animal can survive charging into each other with little to no injury
• Skull thickness & design, larger animals can have thicker bones due to their size (Ar). Denser bones are even stated to be stronger than less dense ones, although a problem with this factor is that it may not be the case in many situations. Thicker, stronger bones are more likely to absorb force/energy with little to no harm.
• The existence of natural sinuses in large animals can cause problems in durability by reducing their weight, it’s been stated that they do it while maintaining the overall strength of the skull (Ar). It reduces the resources needed to maintain a heavy body while balancing durability in a way that wouldn’t destroy/fracture the skull. The animal needs at least some durability to maintain it’s daily activities.

Problems with durability: surface area (linearing blunt durability with sharp durability will cause, like, inconsistencies since the more force & less area that force is concentrated, the more damage is done via pressure. This allows things with less kinetic energy to penetrate things that have higher blunt force energy (like goats). (put your calc on the ammunition required to penetrate the goat’s skull)) | Bruises (certain animals like dogs can get bruises due to severe blunt force damage, however animal’s design like their thick skin & fur could make bruises unlikely (Ar)) | In ritualistic fights, animals will use ritualized behaviors & may hold back their strength when fighting | T-shirt example: let’s say that in a street fight, a guy with a T-shirt on is punched in the stomach & seems to be unaffected. This could mean that he’s 10-B in durability but the fact that the T-shirt is covering the stomach & stress-induced analgesia could cover potential intestinal damage. TL; DR even if an animal seems to be unaffected by an attack, context matters (like internal organ damage, getting visibly unaffected by a feat that would normally injure them, etc). Although many animals are bulky enough & evolved to withstand attacks slightly lower than their AP. | Animals that are more aquatic tend to have less dense bones than their since it’s more of an advantage towards things like mobility (Ar), making this a possible problem for durability

Spoiler: New

Pig (Real World): Change “Superhuman Physical Characteristics” to “Peak Human Physical Characteristics” (it has athletic human to peak human LS normally only as it’s strength justification (pigs usually weigh 140-300 kg, but domestic ones are bred to be heavier. The largest one was 2.74 m long & weighed 1157 kg (Ar), giving domestic pigs at most class 5 in LS)), add in “Conventional Bodily Weaponry” (has teeth & can have tusks. Stated in it’s piercing damage section). Add in the fact that they’re only visibly slightly harmed when striking each other. Can fight other pigs due to the introduction of other farm animals like other pigs (Ar), Have “Athletic” stamina (Can survive knife wounds & shots from a 5.56-mm NATO standard rifle at 800 m, which the latter has 200.9 J of energy)”

American Bison: 9-B in AP & durability surprisingly for it's weight class, higher KE (There should be a link to it tanking a bull cattle charge to the head which the link is here. Although a scan of 2 buffalos instantly dying does exist, they're stated to be stronger than cattle, regularly butt heads against each other, & has a thick skull (their skull's frontal bones are up to 3.8 cm thick, consistent with the statement that their bones are 10 times harder than beef bones). They do charge at each other to display their fitness, but not to the death. It's hard to say that they can withstand a full head-to-head collision with each other despite their thick skulls. However, there is this instance of one Bison withstanding a charge from another one, so they do scale to the durability of their charges if one charged at a still one at full speed.

American Eel: Stays the same tier, but separate it’s KE (their biology isn’t designed to ram things & they’re only opportunistic feeders. Animals that are more aquatic tend to have less dense bones than their since it’s more of an advantage towards things like mobility, & eels do have bones)

Spoiler: Pages to Clean

Unconfirmed: Polar Bear: Tier change to 9-C-9-C+ (wasn't technically & explicitly accepted)

New

American Bullfrog: Technically, you can ambush someone without stealth. Ambushing is attacking by surprise from a hidden place while stealth is moving in a way that avoids detection. You can literally stay still in a hidden place & still be able to ambush. Despite this, the frog does have camo, so we should add it to support the stealth mastery as it supports certain stealth methods of an ambush predator

Tiger (Real World): I made a mistake in the LS section, the Tiger is supposed to leap a few inches more than Lions, so can I reword this?

Lion (Real World): Change stamina into “Superhuman” (fought an African Buffalo for an hour & lost to it, survived an attack from a hippo scan). Change their tier to 9-C, they’re weaker & less durable than a tiger in their prime like, this is something I should’ve done a long time ago. Sorry for the oversight. A lion is 120-190 kg on average & a Zebra is 175-450 kg (A). Wildebeests are 136-272 kg & since nile crocs are competition to the lion (r), I’ll include them. Nile crocs are 500-1650 lb (using this calculator (Ar), that’s 227-748 kg) (Ar).

15: Utahraptor: 9-C+ (comparable in weight to & longer than a male Nile & Saltwater Croc () (Utahraptors weigh 1000-2000 lb & can 25 ft in length (454-907 kg according to this source). Male Saltwater Crocs’ average size & weight is 408-770 kg & 4.3-5 m (14 ft 1 in to 16 ft 5 in). Their close relative wasn’t a complex social hunter.

Trivia: this source should be used to support the abilities: large size (type 0), natural weaponry. Stated on pg 13 here that it’s speed wasn’t fast & was comparable to Iguanodontians, which includes Iguanodon. Iguanodon could run 15 mph (something to put on Iguanodon’s profile).

New KE: 0.5((454+907)/2)(15*0.44704)^2 = 15299.36553 J & 0.5(454)(15*0.44704)^2 = 10207.0712 J. Huh. still 9-B on average. Though 9-C+ to 9-B KE should be fine.

 

[Antvasima]

That seems fine.

 

[H3110l12345I20]

Spoiler: Factors

• • The Panniculus Carnosus muscle allows many mammals (with the exception of primates) to have lessened severity of cuts, the ability to heal better from them, & have looser skin. This allows them to bite/claw each other unharmed.
  • If an animal could or did survive an attack over a large surface area with little to no harm, then that would be a valid method of rating durability by it’s definition.
  • Evolution (Like the example in the hippo, evolution plays a factor in durability. If an animal is designed to withstand a certain amount of energy, then it would be a valid argument since it plays into durability’s definition)
• Factors of KE durability:
  • Design & surface area of front area dispersing energy. The more surface area, the more likely an animal can survive charging into each other with little to no injury
  • Skull thickness & design, larger animals can have thicker bones due to their size. Denser bones are even stated to be stronger than less dense ones, although a problem with this factor is that it may not be the case in many situations. Thicker, stronger bones are more likely to absorb force/energy with little to no harm.
  • The existence of natural sinuses in large animals can cause problems in durability by reducing their weight, it’s been stated that they do it while maintaining the overall strength of the skull. It reduces the resources needed to maintain a heavy body while balancing durability in a way that wouldn’t destroy/fracture the skull. The animal needs at least some durability to maintain it’s daily activities.
• Problems with durability:
  • Surface Area (linearing blunt durability with sharp durability will cause, like, inconsistencies since the more force & less area that force is concentrated, the more damage is done via pressure. This allows things with less kinetic energy to penetrate things that have higher blunt force energy durability (like goats). If you took the same energy a goat can withstand in a headbutt & concentrate it on a spear's tip, it would go straight through the Goat's skull)
  • Bruises (certain animals like dogs can get bruises due to severe blunt force damage, however animal’s design like their thick skin & fur could make bruises unlikely (Ar))
  • In ritualistic fights, animals will use ritualized behaviors & may hold back their strength when fighting
  • T-shirt example: let’s say that in a street fight, a guy with a T-shirt on is punched in the stomach & seems to be unaffected. This could mean that he’s 10-B in durability but the fact that the T-shirt is covering the stomach & stress-induced analgesia could cover potential intestinal damage. TL; DR even if an animal seems to be unaffected by an attack, context matters (like internal organ damage, getting visibly unaffected by a feat that would normally injure them, etc). Although many animals are bulky enough & evolved to withstand attacks slightly lower than their AP.
• Animals that are more aquatic tend to have less dense bones than their since it’s more of an advantage towards things like mobility (Ar), making this a possible problem for durability[COLOR=rgba(224, 224, 224, 0.8)]

Spoiler: New

(SPC = Superhuman Physical Characteristics)

Saltwater Crocodile tier update (new info): 9-C to 9-C+ on average, 9-B for the largest males. | (New info that I’ve overlooked. The largest males/members of the saltwater croc can reach 7 m (23 ft) long & can weigh up to 2 tonnes. It’s rare for them to get to this size due to extensive poaching in the 20th century (). This would make them heavier & bigger than the biggest breed of domestic cattle & an average Hippopotamus, who can be preyed on by the nile (). So any dinosaur (& possibly animal) above this size & weight threshold should be 9-B in AP & dura since they’re significantly bigger & heavier than the biggest male crocodiles. Female average size & weight is 76-103 kg & 2.7-3.1 m (8 ft 10 in to 10 ft 2 in). Male average size & weight is 408-770 kg & 4.3-5 m (14 ft 1 in to 16 ft 5 in))

Cheetah: Change “Superhuman Physical Characteristics” into “Superhuman Speed” (It only has Speed that supersedes the qualifications on the SPC page. None of it’s strength, stamina or durability attributes are at or over 9-C by the SPC page's definition)

Ankylosaurus: 9-B (It’s weight & size would make it superior to a Saltwater Croc, who is a part of the most closely related group to dinos (Ar). The weight of specimens vary from 4.78-8.76 short tons, while specimens’ length varies from 5.4-8 m (17 ft 9 in to 26 ft) (Ar))

Lion (Real World): Update Standard tactics: Groups of lions have similar, simple plans of hunting. When a lion spots a prey, the rest of the lions look in the same direction. The group fans & encircles their prey, with some lions going to stalk from a greater distance. The group attacks & drives prey to lions who ambush from their position. When attacking smaller prey, they use their paw to slap the prey’s rear or legs to knock or drag it down. They then kill the animal by biting the prey’s neck/throat. When hunting larger prey, the group approaches the animal at an angle. They leap on the animal & use their weight to wrestle the prey to the ground by biting at the vertebrae. Once the large prey is down, they bite the throat/over the mouth & nose of the prey to suffocate it. When fighting other lions, they may stand on their hind legs & bite, swipe & try to wrestle each other.

 

[Antvasima]

What do the rest of you think?

 

[H3110l12345I20]

bump.

Yee.
Ant & I are literally the only ones here.

 

[H3110l12345I20]

bump

 

[R4ndomPlayer315]

Spoiler: Factors

• • The Panniculus Carnosus muscle allows many mammals (with the exception of primates) to have lessened severity of cuts, the ability to heal better from them, & have looser skin. This allows them to bite/claw each other unharmed.
  • If an animal could or did survive an attack over a large surface area with little to no harm, then that would be a valid method of rating durability by it’s definition.
  • Evolution (Like the example in the hippo, evolution plays a factor in durability. If an animal is designed to withstand a certain amount of energy, then it would be a valid argument since it plays into durability’s definition)
• Factors of KE durability:
  • Design & surface area of front area dispersing energy. The more surface area, the more likely an animal can survive charging into each other with little to no injury
  • Skull thickness & design, larger animals can have thicker bones due to their size. Denser bones are even stated to be stronger than less dense ones, although a problem with this factor is that it may not be the case in many situations. Thicker, stronger bones are more likely to absorb force/energy with little to no harm.
  • The existence of natural sinuses in large animals can cause problems in durability by reducing their weight, it’s been stated that they do it while maintaining the overall strength of the skull. It reduces the resources needed to maintain a heavy body while balancing durability in a way that wouldn’t destroy/fracture the skull. The animal needs at least some durability to maintain it’s daily activities.
• Problems with durability:
  • Surface Area (linearing blunt durability with sharp durability will cause, like, inconsistencies since the more force & less area that force is concentrated, the more damage is done via pressure. This allows things with less kinetic energy to penetrate things that have higher blunt force energy durability (like goats). If you took the same energy a goat can withstand in a headbutt & concentrate it on a spear's tip, it would go straight through the Goat's skull)
  • Bruises (certain animals like dogs can get bruises due to severe blunt force damage, however animal’s design like their thick skin & fur could make bruises unlikely (Ar))
  • In ritualistic fights, animals will use ritualized behaviors & may hold back their strength when fighting
  • T-shirt example: let’s say that in a street fight, a guy with a T-shirt on is punched in the stomach & seems to be unaffected. This could mean that he’s 10-B in durability but the fact that the T-shirt is covering the stomach & stress-induced analgesia could cover potential intestinal damage. TL; DR even if an animal seems to be unaffected by an attack, context matters (like internal organ damage, getting visibly unaffected by a feat that would normally injure them, etc). Although many animals are bulky enough & evolved to withstand attacks slightly lower than their AP.
• Animals that are more aquatic tend to have less dense bones than their since it’s more of an advantage towards things like mobility (Ar), making this a possible problem for durability[COLOR=rgba(224, 224, 224, 0.8)]

Spoiler: New

(SPC = Superhuman Physical Characteristics)

Saltwater Crocodile tier update (new info): 9-C to 9-C+ on average, 9-B for the largest males. | (New info that I’ve overlooked. The largest males/members of the saltwater croc can reach 7 m (23 ft) long & can weigh up to 2 tonnes. It’s rare for them to get to this size due to extensive poaching in the 20th century (). This would make them heavier & bigger than the biggest breed of domestic cattle & an average Hippopotamus, who can be preyed on by the nile (). So any dinosaur (& possibly animal) above this size & weight threshold should be 9-B in AP & dura since they’re significantly bigger & heavier than the biggest male crocodiles. Female average size & weight is 76-103 kg & 2.7-3.1 m (8 ft 10 in to 10 ft 2 in). Male average size & weight is 408-770 kg & 4.3-5 m (14 ft 1 in to 16 ft 5 in))

Cheetah: Change “Superhuman Physical Characteristics” into “Superhuman Speed” (It only has Speed that supersedes the qualifications on the SPC page. None of it’s strength, stamina or durability attributes are at or over 9-C by the SPC page's definition)

Ankylosaurus: 9-B (It’s weight & size would make it superior to a Saltwater Croc, who is a part of the most closely related group to dinos (Ar). The weight of specimens vary from 4.78-8.76 short tons, while specimens’ length varies from 5.4-8 m (17 ft 9 in to 26 ft) (Ar))

Lion (Real World): Update Standard tactics: Groups of lions have similar, simple plans of hunting. When a lion spots a prey, the rest of the lions look in the same direction. The group fans & encircles their prey, with some lions going to stalk from a greater distance. The group attacks & drives prey to lions who ambush from their position. When attacking smaller prey, they use their paw to slap the prey’s rear or legs to knock or drag it down. They then kill the animal by biting the prey’s neck/throat. When hunting larger prey, the group approaches the animal at an angle. They leap on the animal & use their weight to wrestle the prey to the ground by biting at the vertebrae. Once the large prey is down, they bite the throat/over the mouth & nose of the prey to suffocate it. When fighting other lions, they may stand on their hind legs & bite, swipe & try to wrestle each other.

I’d agree with this.

 

[H3110l12345I20]

bump. vvv

Spoiler: Factors

• • The Panniculus Carnosus muscle allows many mammals (with the exception of primates) to have lessened severity of cuts, the ability to heal better from them, & have looser skin. This allows them to bite/claw each other unharmed.
  • If an animal could or did survive an attack over a large surface area with little to no harm, then that would be a valid method of rating durability by it’s definition.
  • Evolution (Like the example in the hippo, evolution plays a factor in durability. If an animal is designed to withstand a certain amount of energy, then it would be a valid argument since it plays into durability’s definition)
• Factors of KE durability:
  • Design & surface area of front area dispersing energy. The more surface area, the more likely an animal can survive charging into each other with little to no injury
  • Skull thickness & design, larger animals can have thicker bones due to their size. Denser bones are even stated to be stronger than less dense ones, although a problem with this factor is that it may not be the case in many situations. Thicker, stronger bones are more likely to absorb force/energy with little to no harm.
  • The existence of natural sinuses in large animals can cause problems in durability by reducing their weight, it’s been stated that they do it while maintaining the overall strength of the skull. It reduces the resources needed to maintain a heavy body while balancing durability in a way that wouldn’t destroy/fracture the skull. The animal needs at least some durability to maintain it’s daily activities.
• Problems with durability:
  • Surface Area (linearing blunt durability with sharp durability will cause, like, inconsistencies since the more force & less area that force is concentrated, the more damage is done via pressure. This allows things with less kinetic energy to penetrate things that have higher blunt force energy durability (like goats). If you took the same energy a goat can withstand in a headbutt & concentrate it on a spear's tip, it would go straight through the Goat's skull)
  • Bruises (certain animals like dogs can get bruises due to severe blunt force damage, however animal’s design like their thick skin & fur could make bruises unlikely (Ar))
  • In ritualistic fights, animals will use ritualized behaviors & may hold back their strength when fighting
  • T-shirt example: let’s say that in a street fight, a guy with a T-shirt on is punched in the stomach & seems to be unaffected. This could mean that he’s 10-B in durability but the fact that the T-shirt is covering the stomach & stress-induced analgesia could cover potential intestinal damage. TL; DR even if an animal seems to be unaffected by an attack, context matters (like internal organ damage, getting visibly unaffected by a feat that would normally injure them, etc). Although many animals are bulky enough & evolved to withstand attacks slightly lower than their AP.
• Animals that are more aquatic tend to have less dense bones than their since it’s more of an advantage towards things like mobility (Ar), making this a possible problem for durability[COLOR=rgba(224, 224, 224, 0.8)]

Spoiler: New

(SPC = Superhuman Physical Characteristics)

Saltwater Crocodile tier update (new info): 9-C to 9-C+ on average, 9-B for the largest males. | (New info that I’ve overlooked. The largest males/members of the saltwater croc can reach 7 m (23 ft) long & can weigh up to 2 tonnes. It’s rare for them to get to this size due to extensive poaching in the 20th century (). This would make them heavier & bigger than the biggest breed of domestic cattle & an average Hippopotamus, who can be preyed on by the nile (). So any dinosaur (& possibly animal) above this size & weight threshold should be 9-B in AP & dura since they’re significantly bigger & heavier than the biggest male crocodiles. Female average size & weight is 76-103 kg & 2.7-3.1 m (8 ft 10 in to 10 ft 2 in). Male average size & weight is 408-770 kg & 4.3-5 m (14 ft 1 in to 16 ft 5 in))

Cheetah: Change “Superhuman Physical Characteristics” into “Superhuman Speed” (It only has Speed that supersedes the qualifications on the SPC page. None of it’s strength, stamina or durability attributes are at or over 9-C by the SPC page's definition)

Ankylosaurus: 9-B (It’s weight & size would make it superior to a Saltwater Croc, who is a part of the most closely related group to dinos (Ar). The weight of specimens vary from 4.78-8.76 short tons, while specimens’ length varies from 5.4-8 m (17 ft 9 in to 26 ft) (Ar))

Lion (Real World): Update Standard tactics: Groups of lions have similar, simple plans of hunting. When a lion spots a prey, the rest of the lions look in the same direction. The group fans & encircles their prey, with some lions going to stalk from a greater distance. The group attacks & drives prey to lions who ambush from their position. When attacking smaller prey, they use their paw to slap the prey’s rear or legs to knock or drag it down. They then kill the animal by biting the prey’s neck/throat. When hunting larger prey, the group approaches the animal at an angle. They leap on the animal & use their weight to wrestle the prey to the ground by biting at the vertebrae. Once the large prey is down, they bite the throat/over the mouth & nose of the prey to suffocate it. When fighting other lions, they may stand on their hind legs & bite, swipe & try to wrestle each other.

Spoiler: New

American Pit Bull: 10-C to 10-B in tier, Below Average Human to Above Average Human in LS (generally weighs 30-70 lb (13.6-31.8 kg) & is fairly muscular, they also typically require 45-60 minutes of fitness a day. This makes them comparable to Coyotes, although slightly weaker than huskies.

Husky: Change “Superhuman Physical Characteristics” into “Superhuman Speed, Superhuman Physical Characteristics when trained properly” & LS change (Only has speed surpassing Superhuman physical characteristics, but for the physical strength attributes. It’s lifting strength should be “Below Average Human to Above Average Human, up to Class 5 when trained properly” due to them being able to pull 3 times their weight. Sled Dogs when trained properly can pull 90 times their weight. I even have a calc supporting their LS)

Amphicyon: 9-C to 9-C+ (should be superior to modern bears of comparable weight & size (like the grizzly & polar bear)), separate it’s KE

Anaconda: the same (Adults can overpower Jaguars, & Caimans. The Camians are heavier than an American Alligator male on average. Alligators are related to crocs.

Trivia: Sources for camouflage, stealth, & LS (can restrain their prey with their teeth & constricting tactic). Primarily hunts by ambushing & then constricting their prey, the latter causing the circulatory system to be overwhelmed rather than break bones. (no longer WIP, I changed my mind))

Defacto Scaling Chain changes

Cattle: Dura is 9-C normally to 9-C+ for the largest cattle from my calc here

Nile+Saltwater Croc, also Utahraptor: at least 9-C+ for males normally for both crocs, 9-B for the largest males (I surprisingly managed to get a 9-B AP & dura result here new discovery!). This would give the biggest males for both species 9-B now, but their feats for male crocs are normally 9-C. This changes animals like the Utahraptor’s tier), Utahraptor tier change is at least 9-C+.

Trivia:
Weaknesses of Crocs: include that their jaw opening muscles are usually significantly weaker compared to the muscles that close their mouths, cold-blooded, relies on their habitat for survival & their eyes are vulnerable

 

[DarlingAurora]

Anaconda: the same (Likely preyed on a Black Caiman

No way.. source?

 

[H3110l12345I20]

No way.. source?

bro literally missed this on the official profile.

Come to think of it, since everyone doesn't have the time to look up this stuff on the profile. I'll just chuck it in the suggestions so we don't end up with stuff like a 9-B Goblin Shark out of thin air.

 

[DarlingAurora]

bro literally missed this on the official profile.

6 ft caiman = 4 meter black caiman?

No way..

 

[H3110l12345I20]

6 ft caiman = 4 meter black caiman?

No way..

At that point, I'll just read what it preys on & kills, since the scan effectively has a tier 10 strength animal. Anaconda's WIP now, I'll remove it & put a different animal for the suggestions.

 

[Antvasima]

So do these changes seem fine to the rest of you?

https://vsbattles.com/threads/real-life-big-animals-crt-2.153436/post-5793399

 

[H3110l12345I20]

So do these changes seem fine to the rest of you?

https://vsbattles.com/threads/real-life-big-animals-crt-2.153436/post-5793399

Ant, while I do like CRTing animals on a literal fictional indexing site & this is a bit off topic, do we have moral standards for having these animals? Should we have said standards if we're lacking them? Should we have this manner in a different thread if we need to delete some profiles?

Spoiler: Points

There are questions on quora debating average people against animals, but it only works on paper rather than on-site. Like, even debating IRL people on a blank fictional slate off of themselves is still disturbing & comparable to them, your mom, closest friends, etc. I can pass for animals that we aren't often too close with like wolves & bears (with certain acceptions), even though us humans should care & respect them as animals that play their ecological role. We have major animals on site that do appear in fiction & people do develop a deep emotional bond with.

Horses are an example since the Walking Dead zombies' attack potency is scaled to them, & yet, people can get attached to horses emotionally. Dogs are also an example since they're seen in fiction too & they're kept as pets people bond with (again, characters like walkers scale to them). Pigs & cats can be kept as pets too & they're on-site & in fiction.

Hominids are iffy. Even though hominids like Neanderthals & Cro-Magnons in their prehistoric forms aren't here today, they're still mentally comparable to modern people. Although debated by archaeologists, prehistoric humans (including neanderthals) pretty much developed modern human behavior by 50 thousand years ago. Humans are technically scientifically considered as animals too, the wiki even acknowledges this too on it's animals category page.

We can even make matches with these real world entities that I've mentioned & we still care about them on the animal rights aspect of them. Is it immoral & disturbing to have fights against them?

Is it a double standard to include hominids that are related to us the closest like the Neanderthals & Cro-Magnons?

I know we had a thread rejecting real world human profiles. I'm concerned there's going to be that one guy that says humans are animals & these examples to justify a profile on your or some else's mom.

 

[H3110l12345I20]

bump. vvv

Spoiler: New

American Pit Bull: 10-C to 10-B in tier, Below Average Human to Above Average Human in LS (generally weighs 30-70 lb (13.6-31.8 kg) & is fairly muscular, they also typically require 45-60 minutes of fitness a day. This makes them comparable to Coyotes, although slightly weaker than huskies.

Husky: Change “Superhuman Physical Characteristics” into “Superhuman Speed, Superhuman Physical Characteristics when trained properly” & LS change (Only has speed surpassing Superhuman physical characteristics, but for the physical strength attributes. It’s lifting strength should be “Below Average Human to Above Average Human, up to Class 5 when trained properly” due to them being able to pull 3 times their weight. Sled Dogs when trained properly can pull 90 times their weight. I even have a calc supporting their LS)

Amphicyon: 9-C to 9-C+ (should be superior to modern bears of comparable weight & size (like the grizzly & polar bear)), separate it’s KE

Anaconda: the same (Adults can overpower Jaguars, & Caimans. The Camians are heavier than an American Alligator male on average. Alligators are related to crocs.

Trivia: Sources for camouflage, stealth, & LS (can restrain their prey with their teeth & constricting tactic). Primarily hunts by ambushing & then constricting their prey, the latter causing the circulatory system to be overwhelmed rather than break bones. (no longer WIP, I changed my mind))

Defacto Scaling Chain changes

Cattle: Dura is 9-C normally to 9-C+ for the largest cattle from my calc here

Nile+Saltwater Croc, also Utahraptor: at least 9-C+ for males normally for both crocs, 9-B for the largest males (I surprisingly managed to get a 9-B AP & dura result here new discovery!). This would give the biggest males for both species 9-B now, but their feats for male crocs are normally 9-C. This changes animals like the Utahraptor’s tier), Utahraptor tier change is at least 9-C+.

Trivia:
Weaknesses of Crocs: include that their jaw opening muscles are usually significantly weaker compared to the muscles that close their mouths, cold-blooded, relies on their habitat for survival & their eyes are vulnerable

Edited in "Defacto Scaling Chain changes" section in the post.

 

[H3110l12345I20]

bump

 

[H3110l12345I20]

bump

 

[R4ndomPlayer315]

Defacto Scaling Chain changes

Cattle: Dura is 9-C normally to 9-C+ for the largest cattle from my calc here

Nile+Saltwater Croc, also Utahraptor: at least 9-C+ for males normally for both crocs, 9-B for the largest males (I surprisingly managed to get a 9-B AP & dura result here new discovery!). This would give the biggest males for both species 9-B now, but their feats for male crocs are normally 9-C. This changes animals like the Utahraptor’s tier), Utahraptor tier change is at least 9-C+.

Trivia:
Weaknesses of Crocs: include that their jaw opening muscles are usually significantly weaker compared to the muscles that close their mouths, cold-blooded, relies on their habitat for survival & their eyes are vulnerable[/SPOILER]

Looks good.

 

[H3110l12345I20]

bump btw.

Looks good.

Yo, you still helping with the KE, quality & dura of animals, or not? I'm ok either way you choose.

 

[R4ndomPlayer315]

bump btw.

Yo, you still helping with the KE, quality & dura of animals, or not? I'm ok either way you choose.

Yeah, I’ll still be helping.

 

[R4ndomPlayer315]

Also I believe the Giraffe would have to be 9-C+ as it’s weight range is slightly above that of a Camel which can tank horse kicks.

 

[H3110l12345I20]

Also I believe the Giraffe would have to be 9-C+ as it’s weight range is slightly above that of a Camel which can tank horse kicks.

A: Giraffes are very different animals to horses & camels, they're quite distant to the latter despite being related. Horses are more related to rhinos than giraffes. Different animals mean different adaptations.
B: As N*m is J, technically, the Giraffe should have an AP advantage to Zebras by having more displacement potential despite having the same kick as a horse. Judging by this scan, Giraffes should have more surface area. Their legs are the same deadly kickers that can withstand a weight heavier than a Zebra too.

Zebras are comparable to horses.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I am personally a vegetarian, so I love animals, but at this point too many of our characters scale from them to make them practical to remove. Also, they are generalised species pages, not depicting individuals.

Your suggested changes here seem fine to apply btw.

 

[R4ndomPlayer315]

A: Giraffes are very different animals to horses & camels, they're quite distant to the latter despite being related. Horses are more related to rhinos than giraffes. Different animals mean different adaptations.
B: As N*m is J, technically, the Giraffe should have an AP advantage to Zebras by having more displacement potential despite having the same kick as a horse. Judging by this scan, Giraffes should have more surface area. Their legs are the same deadly kickers that can withstand a weight heavier than a Zebra too.

Zebras are comparable to horses.

Aight

 

[H3110l12345I20]

Well, I am personally a vegetarian, so I love animals, but at this point too many of our characters scale from them to make them practical to remove. Also, they are generalised species pages, not depicting individuals.

Your suggested changes here seem fine to apply btw.

Well the hominids like Cro-Magnons & Neanderthals are a step further than a fictional, blank slate average dude profile (they don't exist in their initial forms). So I'll take your post as an example in regards to this issue. Nothing too puritan about preventing a profile of yo mama!

Thank you for the response in regards to my concerns & CRTing the vast ocean of IRL profiles here!

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

Spoiler: Factors

• • The Panniculus Carnosus muscle allows many mammals (with the exception of primates) to have lessened severity of cuts, the ability to heal better from them, & have looser skin. This allows them to bite/claw each other unharmed.
  • If an animal could or did survive an attack over a large surface area with little to no harm, then that would be a valid method of rating durability by it’s definition.
  • Evolution (Like the example in the hippo, evolution plays a factor in durability. If an animal is designed to withstand a certain amount of energy, then it would be a valid argument since it plays into durability’s definition)
• Factors of KE durability:
  • Design & surface area of front area dispersing energy. The more surface area, the more likely an animal can survive charging into each other with little to no injury
  • Skull thickness & design, larger animals can have thicker bones due to their size. Denser bones are even stated to be stronger than less dense ones, although a problem with this factor is that it may not be the case in many situations. Thicker, stronger bones are more likely to absorb force/energy with little to no harm.
  • The existence of natural sinuses in large animals can cause problems in durability by reducing their weight, it’s been stated that they do it while maintaining the overall strength of the skull. It reduces the resources needed to maintain a heavy body while balancing durability in a way that wouldn’t destroy/fracture the skull. The animal needs at least some durability to maintain it’s daily activities.
• Problems with durability:
  • Surface Area (linearing blunt durability with sharp durability will cause, like, inconsistencies since the more force & less area that force is concentrated, the more damage is done via pressure. This allows things with less kinetic energy to penetrate things that have higher blunt force energy durability (like goats). If you took the same energy a goat can withstand in a headbutt & concentrate it on a spear's tip, it would go straight through the Goat's skull)
  • Bruises (certain animals like dogs can get bruises due to severe blunt force damage, however animal’s design like their thick skin & fur could make bruises unlikely (Ar))
  • In ritualistic fights, animals will use ritualized behaviors & may hold back their strength when fighting
  • T-shirt example: let’s say that in a street fight, a guy with a T-shirt on is punched in the stomach & seems to be unaffected. This could mean that he’s 10-B in durability but the fact that the T-shirt is covering the stomach & stress-induced analgesia could cover potential intestinal damage. TL; DR even if an animal seems to be unaffected by an attack, context matters (like internal organ damage, getting visibly unaffected by a feat that would normally injure them, etc). Although many animals are bulky enough & evolved to withstand attacks slightly lower than their AP.
• Animals that are more aquatic tend to have less dense bones than their since it’s more of an advantage towards things like mobility (Ar), making this a possible problem for durability[COLOR=rgba(224, 224, 224, 0.8)]

Spoiler: New

(SPC = Superhuman Physical Characteristics)

Saltwater Crocodile tier update (new info): 9-C to 9-C+ on average, 9-B for the largest males. | (New info that I’ve overlooked. The largest males/members of the saltwater croc can reach 7 m (23 ft) long & can weigh up to 2 tonnes. It’s rare for them to get to this size due to extensive poaching in the 20th century (). This would make them heavier & bigger than the biggest breed of domestic cattle & an average Hippopotamus, who can be preyed on by the nile (). So any dinosaur (& possibly animal) above this size & weight threshold should be 9-B in AP & dura since they’re significantly bigger & heavier than the biggest male crocodiles. Female average size & weight is 76-103 kg & 2.7-3.1 m (8 ft 10 in to 10 ft 2 in). Male average size & weight is 408-770 kg & 4.3-5 m (14 ft 1 in to 16 ft 5 in))

Cheetah: Change “Superhuman Physical Characteristics” into “Superhuman Speed” (It only has Speed that supersedes the qualifications on the SPC page. None of it’s strength, stamina or durability attributes are at or over 9-C by the SPC page's definition)

Ankylosaurus: 9-B (It’s weight & size would make it superior to a Saltwater Croc, who is a part of the most closely related group to dinos (Ar). The weight of specimens vary from 4.78-8.76 short tons, while specimens’ length varies from 5.4-8 m (17 ft 9 in to 26 ft) (Ar))

Lion (Real World): Update Standard tactics: Groups of lions have similar, simple plans of hunting. When a lion spots a prey, the rest of the lions look in the same direction. The group fans & encircles their prey, with some lions going to stalk from a greater distance. The group attacks & drives prey to lions who ambush from their position. When attacking smaller prey, they use their paw to slap the prey’s rear or legs to knock or drag it down. They then kill the animal by biting the prey’s neck/throat. When hunting larger prey, the group approaches the animal at an angle. They leap on the animal & use their weight to wrestle the prey to the ground by biting at the vertebrae. Once the large prey is down, they bite the throat/over the mouth & nose of the prey to suffocate it. When fighting other lions, they may stand on their hind legs & bite, swipe & try to wrestle each other.

I agree with this

 

[H3110l12345I20]

Spoiler: Evaluated animals list

Total: 46. (note: This list isn't here for evaluation. It's there to keep track of the animals that have been evaluated. However, you're free to question our suggestions)

Spoiler: A-G

Count: 29
Aardvark
Acrocanthosaurus
African Buffalo
African Wild Dog
Alabai
Alligator Snapping Turtle
Allosaurus
American Alligator
American Bison
American Eel
American Pit Bull
Amphicyon
Anaconda
Ankylosaurus
Bulldog
Camel
Cattle
Cheetah
Chicken
Coyote
--20--
Domestic Cat
Elephant
Giant Anteater
Giant Panda
Giraffe
Gorilla
Gray Wolf
Great White Shark
Grizzly Bear

Spoiler: H-M

Count: 8
Hippopotamus
Horse
Husky
Jaguar
Kodiak Bear
Leopard
Lion (Real World)
Nile Crocodile

Spoiler: O-U

Count: 8
Pig (Real World)
Polar Bear
Saltwater Crocodile
Sloth Bear
Tiger
Triceratops
Tyrannosaurus Rex
Utahraptor

Spoiler: V-Z

Count: 1
Walrus

(New stuff in factors if you want to check it out (namely, muscle strength section))

Spoiler: Factors

• Evolution: Evolution only encourages the evolution of things that would be an advantage & increase the things’ evolutionary fitness, not the other way around. This causes traits that are beneficial to the organism to be enhanced or possibly to their fullest potential over the course of countless generations.
• If an animal could or did survive an attack over a large surface area with little to no harm, then that would be a valid method of rating durability by it’s definition.
• Muscle Strength: Muscle is an effective shock absorber by contracting upon impact against certain newtons in pairs, allowing them to protect the soft organs & bones. The stronger & more adapted muscle is to impacts, the more newtons & in turn, joules it can withstand. This applies to internal & external forces of an animal by the rules of evolution.
• Surface area: The more surface area, the more likely an animal can survive charging into each other with little to no injury.
• The Panniculus Carnosus muscle: The Panniculus Carnosus muscle allows many mammals (with the exception of primates) to have lessened severity of cuts, the ability to heal better from them, & have looser skin. This allows them to bite/claw each other unharmed

Factors of KE durability:

• All previous factors
• Natural Sinuses: The existence of natural sinuses in large animals can cause problems in durability by reducing their weight, it’s been stated that they do it while maintaining the overall strength of the skull. It reduces the resources needed to maintain a heavy body while balancing durability in a way that wouldn’t destroy/fracture the skull. The animal needs at least some durability to maintain it’s daily activities.
• Skull thickness & design: larger animals can have thicker bones due to their size. Denser bones are even stated to be stronger than less dense ones, although a problem with this factor is that it may not be the case in many situations. Thicker, stronger bones are more likely to absorb force/energy with little to no harm.

Problems with durability:

• Surface Area (linearing blunt durability with sharp durability will cause, like, inconsistencies since the more force & less area that force is concentrated, the more damage is done via pressure. This allows things with less kinetic energy to penetrate things that have higher blunt force durability (like goats). If you took the same energy a goat can withstand in a headbutt & concentrate it on a spear's tip, it would go straight through the Goat's skull)
• Bruises (certain animals like dogs can get bruises due to severe blunt force damage, however animal’s design like their thick skin & fur could make bruises unlikely)
• In ritualistic fights, animals will use ritualized behaviors & may hold back their strength when fighting
• T-shirt example (Let’s say that in a street fight, a guy with a T-shirt on is punched in the stomach & seems to be unaffected. This could mean that he’s 10-B in durability but the fact that the T-shirt is covering the stomach & stress-induced analgesia could cover potential intestinal damage. TL; DR even if an animal seems to be unaffected by an attack, context matters (like internal organ damage, getting visibly unaffected by a feat that would normally injure them, etc). Although many animals are bulky enough & evolved to withstand attacks slightly lower than their AP)
• Animals that are more aquatic tend to have less dense bones than their since it’s more of an advantage towards things like mobility, making this a possible problem for durability
• Newton’s Third Law: While technically, Newton’s third law applies to Newtons, it doesn’t apply to joules. This is because the distance of the force being exerted may be different even if the force was equal to a thing striking something else.

Spoiler: New

Apatosaurus: The same tier & separate it’s KE, but a couple of things first (Sauropods can easily crack their tails like whips. Downgrade tail speed to Superhuman since it’s not possible for them to go above 30 m/s based off of this study. As for it’s head, I don’t think it really needed/adapted to ram into things due to the fragility & small size of it’s neck & head. Stronger than Salt crocs.

Trivia: The study also states that the energy’s KE is equal to that of a golf ball going at 88 m/s & golf balls are 45.93 g at most. 0.5(0.04593)(88^2) = 177.84096 J, weak. They also had claws & teeth.

Weaknesses: It’s size required it to eat a lot of food. Was slow & had terrible agility)

African Wild Dog: mistake on their tier, should be likely 10-C to 10-B (Somewhat comparable to Coyotes by weight & size (their weight & size links: Coyote, African Wild Dog))

Allosaurus: upgrade to 9-B (I had a misjudgement here, since it’s bigger & heavier than the biggest reliably recorded Saltwater Crocs, it should be here)

Argentinosaurus The same tier, but separate it’s KE from it’s AP (As for it’s head, I don’t think it really needed/adapted to ram into things due to the fragility & small size of it’s neck & head. F = ma & the dino has low acceleration even though it’s 70 tonnes in weight & 35 m long. Stronger than Salt crocs & has teeth & tail. The fact that it regularly carries it’s weight should give it superhuman stamina.

Weaknesses: It’s size required it to eat a lot of food.)

 

[Antvasima]

Well the hominids like Cro-Magnons & Neanderthals are a step further than a fictional, blank slate average dude profile (they don't exist in their initial forms). So I'll take your post as an example in regards to this issue. Nothing too puritan about preventing a profile of yo mama!

Thank you for the response in regards to my concerns & CRTing the vast ocean of IRL profiles here!

Which of our pages do you want us to delete exactly? Can you link to them all here please? Perhaps a staff forum thread should be initiated based on this topic.

 

[Antvasima]

Spoiler: Evaluated animals list

Total: 46. (note: This list isn't here for evaluation. It's there to keep track of the animals that have been evaluated. However, you're free to question our suggestions)

Spoiler: A-G

Count: 29
Aardvark
Acrocanthosaurus
African Buffalo
African Wild Dog
Alabai
Alligator Snapping Turtle
Allosaurus
American Alligator
American Bison
American Eel
American Pit Bull
Amphicyon
Anaconda
Ankylosaurus
Bulldog
Camel
Cattle
Cheetah
Chicken
Coyote
--20--
Domestic Cat
Elephant
Giant Anteater
Giant Panda
Giraffe
Gorilla
Gray Wolf
Great White Shark
Grizzly Bear

Spoiler: H-M

Count: 8
Hippopotamus
Horse
Husky
Jaguar
Kodiak Bear
Leopard
Lion (Real World)
Nile Crocodile

Spoiler: O-U

Count: 8
Pig (Real World)
Polar Bear
Saltwater Crocodile
Sloth Bear
Tiger
Triceratops
Tyrannosaurus Rex
Utahraptor

Spoiler: V-Z

Count: 1
Walrus

(New stuff in factors if you want to check it out (namely, muscle strength section))

Spoiler: Factors

• Evolution: Evolution only encourages the evolution of things that would be an advantage & increase the things’ evolutionary fitness, not the other way around. This causes traits that are beneficial to the organism to be enhanced or possibly to their fullest potential over the course of countless generations.
• If an animal could or did survive an attack over a large surface area with little to no harm, then that would be a valid method of rating durability by it’s definition.
• Muscle Strength: Muscle is an effective shock absorber by contracting upon impact against certain newtons in pairs, allowing them to protect the soft organs & bones. The stronger & more adapted muscle is to impacts, the more newtons & in turn, joules it can withstand. This applies to internal & external forces of an animal by the rules of evolution.
• Surface area: The more surface area, the more likely an animal can survive charging into each other with little to no injury.
• The Panniculus Carnosus muscle: The Panniculus Carnosus muscle allows many mammals (with the exception of primates) to have lessened severity of cuts, the ability to heal better from them, & have looser skin. This allows them to bite/claw each other unharmed

Factors of KE durability:

• All previous factors
• Natural Sinuses: The existence of natural sinuses in large animals can cause problems in durability by reducing their weight, it’s been stated that they do it while maintaining the overall strength of the skull. It reduces the resources needed to maintain a heavy body while balancing durability in a way that wouldn’t destroy/fracture the skull. The animal needs at least some durability to maintain it’s daily activities.
• Skull thickness & design: larger animals can have thicker bones due to their size. Denser bones are even stated to be stronger than less dense ones, although a problem with this factor is that it may not be the case in many situations. Thicker, stronger bones are more likely to absorb force/energy with little to no harm.

Problems with durability:

• Surface Area (linearing blunt durability with sharp durability will cause, like, inconsistencies since the more force & less area that force is concentrated, the more damage is done via pressure. This allows things with less kinetic energy to penetrate things that have higher blunt force durability (like goats). If you took the same energy a goat can withstand in a headbutt & concentrate it on a spear's tip, it would go straight through the Goat's skull)
• Bruises (certain animals like dogs can get bruises due to severe blunt force damage, however animal’s design like their thick skin & fur could make bruises unlikely)
• In ritualistic fights, animals will use ritualized behaviors & may hold back their strength when fighting
• T-shirt example (Let’s say that in a street fight, a guy with a T-shirt on is punched in the stomach & seems to be unaffected. This could mean that he’s 10-B in durability but the fact that the T-shirt is covering the stomach & stress-induced analgesia could cover potential intestinal damage. TL; DR even if an animal seems to be unaffected by an attack, context matters (like internal organ damage, getting visibly unaffected by a feat that would normally injure them, etc). Although many animals are bulky enough & evolved to withstand attacks slightly lower than their AP)
• Animals that are more aquatic tend to have less dense bones than their since it’s more of an advantage towards things like mobility, making this a possible problem for durability
• Newton’s Third Law: While technically, Newton’s third law applies to Newtons, it doesn’t apply to joules. This is because the distance of the force being exerted may be different even if the force was equal to a thing striking something else.

Spoiler: New

Apatosaurus: The same tier & separate it’s KE, but a couple of things first (Sauropods can easily crack their tails like whips. Downgrade tail speed to Superhuman since it’s not possible for them to go above 30 m/s based off of this study. As for it’s head, I don’t think it really needed/adapted to ram into things due to the fragility & small size of it’s neck & head. Stronger than Salt crocs.

Trivia: The study also states that the energy’s KE is equal to that of a golf ball going at 88 m/s & golf balls are 45.93 g at most. 0.5(0.04593)(88^2) = 177.84096 J, weak. They also had claws & teeth.

Weaknesses: It’s size required it to eat a lot of food. Was slow & had terrible agility)

African Wild Dog: mistake on their tier, should be likely 10-C to 10-B (Somewhat comparable to Coyotes by weight & size (their weight & size links: Coyote, African Wild Dog))

Allosaurus: upgrade to 9-B (I had a misjudgement here, since it’s bigger & heavier than the biggest reliably recorded Saltwater Crocs, it should be here)

Argentinosaurus The same tier, but separate it’s KE from it’s AP (As for it’s head, I don’t think it really needed/adapted to ram into things due to the fragility & small size of it’s neck & head. F = ma & the dino has low acceleration even though it’s 70 tonnes in weight & 35 m long. Stronger than Salt crocs & has teeth & tail. The fact that it regularly carries it’s weight should give it superhuman stamina.

Weaknesses: It’s size required it to eat a lot of food.)

I am unfortunately not a good person to evaluate this, especially with limited time available. Can you explain any more controversial suggestions via summaries please?

@DarkDragonMedeus @Mr._Bambu @Damage3245 @Agnaa

Are any of you willing to help out here please?

 

[H3110l12345I20]

In this post, I didn't intend to delete anything. You stated that animals (including Neanderthals & Cro-Magnons) aren't representive of real people/individuals & even pets & the most beloved animals do scale to fictional character. However, as stated in my previous post here, I made the point that hominids like Neanderthals & Cro-Magnons are mentally comparable to real people.

("Even though hominids like Neanderthals & Cro-Magnons in their prehistoric forms aren't here today, they're still mentally comparable to modern people. Although debated by archaeologists, prehistoric humans (including neanderthals) pretty much developed modern human behavior by 50 thousand years ago. Humans are technically scientifically considered as animals too, the wiki even acknowledges this too on it's animals category page.")

This post was just me continuing the dura, quality & KE reevaluation train on IRL animals.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. The latter is probably fine to apply then.

I am not certain in either direction about the former though, and would only the neanderthals and cro-magnon pages be affected?

 

[H3110l12345I20]

Okay. The latter is probably fine to apply then.

I am not certain in either direction about the former though, and would only the neanderthals and cro-magnon pages be affected?

To my knowledge, TL; DR, yes. These pages along with the human race are pretty much the closest things we have to IRL individuals.

Like, we do have a cavemen category. The vast amount of fiction us humans wrote suggests the possibilty of a fictional character that has the physical attributes of neanderthals & Cro-Magnon.

We do have fictional animals on site that are physically comparable to their real counterparts (like Mittens).

Though conversely, I haven't seen any pages that do scale physically from Neanderthals/Cro-magnons (in which, where that special page for looking up pages that link to a specific page). Also, Neanderthals/Cro-magnons by their close relation alone would make them physically or somewhat comparable to real world hunter-gatherer groups. Although the modern groups lived in way different environments than Neanderthals/Cro-magnons.

Inspiration (optional to read section)
For the IRL cavemen we have on site, it's something needed to be thought about from both us & the staff. Long ago when @DarlingAurora & I were more active in PMs, she questioned the status of prohibiting even a blank slate IRL average person profile. I showed her the thread on why it's not the case & presented the (inspirations for) the points I had on the hominids. It got me really thinking on what boundaries should we really put for stuff like IRL cavemen.

Like chimps are more savage & different, but cavemen are a different & ironicly comparable animal.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Looking good.

 

[Agnaa]

I'm not familiar enough with our stricter standards on real-world animals to evaluate threads like these.

 

[H3110l12345I20]

I'm not familiar enough with our stricter standards on real-world animals to evaluate threads like these.

I was planning to contact you in regards to this since I know that I'm going to come across changing the Cro-Magnon & Neanderthal profiles vvv

To my knowledge, TL; DR, yes. These pages along with the human race are pretty much the closest things we have to IRL individuals.

Like, we do have a cavemen category. The vast amount of fiction us humans wrote suggests the possibilty of a fictional character that has the physical attributes of neanderthals & Cro-Magnon.

We do have fictional animals on site that are physically comparable to their real counterparts (like Mittens).

Though conversely, I haven't seen any pages that do scale physically from Neanderthals/Cro-magnons (in which, where that special page for looking up pages that link to a specific page). Also, Neanderthals/Cro-magnons by their close relation alone would make them physically or somewhat comparable to real world hunter-gatherer groups. Although the modern groups lived in way different environments than Neanderthals/Cro-magnons.

Inspiration (optional to read section)
For the IRL cavemen we have on site, it's something needed to be thought about from both us & the staff. Long ago when @DarlingAurora & I were more active in PMs, she questioned the status of prohibiting even a blank slate IRL average person profile. I showed her the thread on why it's not the case & presented the (inspirations for) the points I had on the hominids. It got me really thinking on what boundaries should we really put for stuff like IRL cavemen.

Like chimps are more savage & different, but cavemen are a different & ironicly comparable animal.

I mean, the problem here is that the hominids are mentally/behaviourally like real people & maybe real hunter-gatherers in their modern groups.

I'm planning to add like, new stuff like martial arts, enhanced smell, stat details & etc. But I don't want to make the profiles lean to real people. Do you think you can handle this regard/topic Agnaa? You did have experience preventing the human race profile from becoming composite human 2.0.