• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Re:Zero Re:Visions 2nd Cour

972
147
Continuing from here.

Low Tiers

The low tiers, meaning Rom and the rest of the Felt camp not named Reinhard, should be significantly above 10-A. In Arc 1, Rom was able to easily destroy a table (he does this mutiple times in the anime) which is 9-B. There is also a case to be made about a WN statement about Rom being able to smash a car, which would be 9-A, because we know that the LN is not always canon in every aspect and a bunch of cut were made "because of the page count" while sometimes the anime even retcons the LN.

Mid Tiers

As already established, the calc used to scale the mid tiers is bunk and their 8-A rating needs to go. They should instead scale to Al Goa (the low end was accepted) as it is an Al level magic which even Mimi, who's down there with Aldebaran, can cast. This is further supported by the fact that Otto's Al Dona, which is powerful enough to pulverize trees, did nothing to Garfiel. Now, pulverizing just a single tree is 0.56 Tons of TNT which is 8-C, and if the amount of trees that Al Dona can pulverize is greater than 4 (note that the word used in Japanese is 木々, which usually means 'many trees'), this spell would also be High 8-C like Al Goa. Now, while Garfiel is resistant to earth magic, it's doubtful it's anywhere near Reinhard's 80% resistances, and even if nerf to damage to 8-C, he was still unscratched by it. Another piece of evidence I'll supply to help the scaling is the fact that 8 y/o Rem was already capable of smashing large trees with her attacks, which is 9-A+.

High Tiers

The high tiers scaling to Puck's true form was entirely based on a fake translation stating that Roswaal was tied with him in power, so it's bunk. It's even contradicted by the fact Roswaal is comparable to Echidna who's much weaker than Typhon and Daphne who are weaker than Puck's true form by virtue of the fact that he made the top 5 while they didn't. The high tiers would need to be rescaled to Puck's small form based on Roswaal and Melakuera being able to match him in combat, meaning they go down to Low 7-B.

God Tiers

Needless to say, Sekhmet loses her 7-A rating because the characters she can one-shot are no longer 7-B. The ratings of the other god tiers are also under question and they will likely be downgraded to 'At least 7-B'.




Abilities Revisions

Beatrice gets (goes without say that this will be added to Subaru's profile as well):
Julius — based on the events of EX Volume 4, Julius has:
Reinhard gets:
  • Empathic Manipulation with the Divine Protection of Empathy.
  • Automatic Translation via Otto's Divine Protection of Soul Language.
  • Clairvoyance via Ram's Divine Protection of Clairvoyance.
  • Earth Manipulation with Garfiel's Divine Protection of Earth Spirits and possibly Elemental Manipulation because he possesses the other elemental counterparts to this blessing.
  • Spatial Manipulation for this where he not only bent but also cut space. And just to make sure, here is a better translation of that last part as I found out that sentence is just copypasta from the WN of Arc 1. So Reinhard can cut space like Reid can, makes sense as they use the same ability.
  • Reactive Power Level via the Divine Protection of Second Sight.
  • Animal Manipulation with Meili's Divine Protection of Magic Manipulation which allows her to control witch beasts.
Ley and Roy:
  • Their authority isn't Power Absorption as their victims retain their powers, it is instead the exact definition of Soul Absorption.
  • With Emilia's name, they get Weapon Creation and, though we haven't seen them use it, they might have Danmaku if they can replicate Icicle Line.
Reid:
  • His resistance to Memory Manipulation needs to be scrapped because not only does he not remember Emilia after Ley ate her name, but he also was also eaten by Roy. Him taking control of his body later should be considered resistance to Soul Absorption.
Shaula gets:
Wilhelm gets:
Theresia gets:
Sphinx gets:
Felt gets:
Satella loses:
  • Status Effect Inducement, because she has never been stated to be able to use Yin magic.
  • That part about her Unseen Hands being invisible needs to go, too, because they aren't invisible. Actually, this is possibly just an application of shadow control as they were never called 'Unseen Hands' or 'Authority of Sloth' beyond some mistranslations.
Daphne loses, like, half of her abilities as I have no idea where they came from:
  • No idea where Empathic Manipulation came from.
  • No idea where Petrification came from.
  • No idea where Regeneration came from.
  • Memory Manipulation, Causality Manipulation and Power Absorption are all abilities possessed by Ley, Roy and Louis but not Daphne. I'd assume the same thing goes for Duplication because Daphne cannot divide herself in two.
Carmilla loses:
  • Her rating, because she has no combat ability whatsoever. We have her as '7-B with Magic' but what magic? She has none and her authority is a non-combat one.
  • Superhuman Physical Characteristics. She's 10-B physically, that's already on her profile.
Minerva:
  • Why dose she have Regeneration instead of Healing?
Pandora loses:
  • Superhuman Physical Characteristics. Why does she even have this in the first place?
Spirits (Puck, Beatrice and Melakuera) should have Inorganic Physiology as they are made out of mana as opposed to organic matter.
 
Last edited:
Forgot to add that spirits should have Inorganic Physiology, I'll edit the op. Also, Roswaal and Echidna will of course be getting whatever magic abilities this adds by default.
 
Agree with most of this.

Why are we giving Reinhard other ppl's abilities? Like yea if he ever felt he needed it, he could get it, but idk where it's confirmed he has their blessings.

Also The witches ratings have also been bothering me for a while cause as you said it's not confirmed a few of them even have magic, where is it confirmed Typhon has magic for example? Daphne is different case since she was experimented on, so she is superhuman.

Some other things, as i said before nothing from my knowledge proves Shalua is immortal and nothing proves she created dimension gate nor did she manipulate space or something to get through EMT, she should lose immortality and space-time manipulation.

Julius should have instinctive reaction, Sphinx has an accepted 8-B feat via Al Jiwald, which Grimm blocked, so Ex Novels characters should be 8-B.
 
Why are we giving Reinhard other ppl's abilities? Like yea if he ever felt he needed it, he could get it, but idk where it's confirmed he has their blessings.
If he can get the blessings then it should be listed as something he can do. Tappei said that he likely has Garfiel's blessing and the other elemental counterparts to it, he doesn't have Otto's, though
when is it confirmed Typhon has magic either?
Never. And she's also physically as strong as child, too.
Sphinx has an accepted 8-B feat via Al Jiwald, which Grimm blocked, so Ex Novels characters should be 8-B.
Isn't this a heat feat that we can't scale to their physical stength at all? And IIRC it's just the shield that that was able to withstand the attack by defecting it.
 
He can get them, but that doesn't mean he has it currently, it's a potential thing.

Typhon shouldn't be Low 7-B either then.

Grimm uses the shield, nobody makes the argument that when a swordsman deflects an attack, it's the sword that's comparable to the attack.

Also didn't you make 8-B crater calc for Julia? If accepted regardless they would be 8-B.

There is still some stuff missing, will post them in a little.
 
Grimm uses the shield, nobody makes the argument that when a swordsman deflects an attack, it's the sword that's comparable to the attack.
You don't get it, the shield's reflecting the attack like a mirror reflects light. The power of the spell is not hitting Grimm, unlike with a sword attack where the shield only blunts the damage but you still need to be strong enough to take the rest, Al Jiwald will do zero damage to Grimm if it doesn't come in contact with him and it didn't. The only thing that was effected was the shield, it's stated in the volume itself, and the attack would have killed Julia and Grimm were they to get hit. And again, isn't this a heat feat which are no longer acceptable for such scaling?
Also didn't you make 8-B calc for Julia? If accepted regardless they would be 8-B.
I did, but I think it was Jasonsith who evaluated it and he told me to nerf the depth of the crater to the height of Julia based on visual evidence which put it at High 8-C. The comments are deleted for some reason (and not only on this blog post) and I didn't update the blog itself.
 
Last edited:
Makes sense.

Well the Julia feat would be a good support, probably should get another calc member to look at it.

Stuff missing:

Shaula:
  • Her range should be tens of kilometers, she was able to hit Emilai's ice towers before Subaru and co even got out of Sand Time, which was said to be tens of kilometers away from the tower where she was at.
  • Speaking of hitting Emilia's towers, the space there was being distorted by dimension gate, yet Shaula accurately hit the ice towers anyway, looking at that, yea i think her spatial manipulation is legit, idk about time manipulation though, where is it stated Shaula can beat Archbishops?
  • Shaula's needles have a high degree of heat, so heat manipulation.
  • Enhanced Senses due to being able to smell the miasma on Subaru and being able to see things tens of kilometers away, cause that's how she was snipping everyone. Reid and Reinhard have better eyesight than her, now that i think about it.
  • Surface scaling in her scorpion form due to sticking to ceilings.
  • Extrasensory perception for sensing things approaching the tower.

Ley:
Emilia:
  • Resistance to mind and soul manipulation i guess, she is basically not affected by miasma. Scans of the effects of miasma are on Satella's profile under mind and soul manipulation.
  • Resistance to heat manipulation via living in Elior Forest which has lethal levels of cold bare in mind she fully explore the entire forest, not to mention being contracted to Puck gives cold resistance.
Reid:
Spirits ie Puck, Melakuera
Puck and Roswaal:
Otto:
 
Last edited:
Her range should be tens of kilometers, she was able to hit Emilai's ice towers before Subaru and co even got out of Sand Time, which was said to be tens of kilometers away from the tower where she was at.
It was 10 kilometers away, but I guess Tens of kilometers does begin at 10 km.
Speaking of hitting Emilia's towers, the space there was being distorted by dimension gate, yet Shaula accurately hit the ice towers anyway, looking at that, yea i think her spatial manipulation is legit
If memory serves me right, all Dimensions Gate did was prevent them from reaching the place they were already at (the Flower Meadow) when Shaula was shooting at them, but it not actively disturb the space between them and the tower.
idk about time manipulation though, where is it stated Shaula can beat Archbishops?
Not sure, but I think it was just Subaru's personal assessment of her strength rather than something to be taken as her being able to kill Regulus or something.
Reid and Reinhard have better eyesight than her, now that i think about it.
Goes for Theresia, too.
Poison manipulation, has a dagger with poison.
It says "may have been varnished with poison", doesn't mean it was.
Heat manipulation due to being able to burn people, vaporizing them.
Questionable, as Reid's vaporization is AP based. Julius wasn't burned or anything when he tanked his attack. Same goes for Reinhard, he vaporized those mooks in Oboreru, but the attack only cut up Elsa in arc 1.
Water and air manipulation via water and wind magic.
That's clearly Sound Manipulation. Just because it's made using water and wind magic doesn't mean it's water or air manipulation. Look at the broad array of things that water magic can do, such as healing, resurrection, ice manipulation, biological manipulation, etc.

But the rest seems fine.
 
Felt should also have resistance to Fear manipulation, Mind manipulation and Sense manipulation.
As those abilities are also part of Siriu's authority.
 
Actually, you can't call Sirius' authority fear inducement because all it does is amplify fear (and all other emotions) by bouncing it off others. She doesn't have the ability to just make you fear her for no reason, the people already fear her and she just amplifies that fear via empathic manipulation.
 
Actually, you can't call Sirius' authority fear inducement because all it does is amplify fear (and all other emotions) by bouncing it off others. She doesn't have the ability to just make you fear her for no reason, the people already fear her and she just amplifies that fear via empathic manipulation.
I see, but She can also Mind control people and share her senses (Sense manipulation).
Also, if you Kill her directly, you die too, shouldn't that be limited Fate manipulation?.
 
It was 10 kilometers away, but I guess Tens of kilometers does begin at 10 km.

If memory serves me right, all Dimensions Gate did was prevent them from reaching the place they were already at (the Flower Meadow) when Shaula was shooting at them, but it not actively disturb the space between them and the tower.

Not sure, but I think it was just Subaru's personal assessment of her strength rather than something to be taken as her being able to kill Regulus or something.

Goes for Theresia, too.

It says "may have been varnished with poison", doesn't mean it was.

Questionable, as Reid's vaporization is AP based. Julius wasn't burned or anything when he tanked his attack. Same goes for Reinhard, he vaporized those mooks in Oboreru, but the attack only cut up Elsa in arc 1.

That's clearly Sound Manipulation. Just because it's made using water and wind magic doesn't mean it's water or air manipulation. Look at the broad array of things that water magic can do, such as healing, resurrection, ice manipulation, biological manipulation, etc.

But the rest seems fine.

Then Shaula doesn't have any proof of spatial manipulation or time manipulation.

It's a possibility though that it was poison, so it should at least be possibly poison manipulation.

This Reid feat is from when he got a sword, he only fought Julius with chopsticks, and he was playing with Julius while actively trying to kill Subaru, so don't think Julius tanking proves anything.

Otto should have Sound Manipulation then.
 
This Reid feat is from when he got a sword, he only fought Julius with chopsticks, and he was playing with Julius while actively trying to kill Subaru, so don't think Julius tanking proves anything.
Yeah, and Reinhard vaporizing those guards in Oboreru was done with a sword, just like against Elsa, but beyond vaporizing them there is nothing else to suggest that the attack generates any significant amount of heat.
 
Well that's fine then.

Guess we just wait for more input now, unless i find something else that's missing, but don't think there is.

Besides arguing the God Tiers i guess, i can see an argument for baseline 7-A for Reid, Reinhard and Satella due to Puck's 55 megaton feat being done via existing, but idk if that's enough to put Sekhmet as 7-A being to being above Puck, but once you get to ppl above Sekhmet, i think it's probably enough.
 
There really is no way of comparing Sekhmet and Puck, all we know is that she is stronger than him to an unknown degree. I guess they are going to end up in their own little tier between high and god tiers. Dunno what to do with those other three.

Now, as for Typhon, since she's physically a child i.e. 10-C and has no magic or to like to do damage with, she should lose her rating since her authority is kinda just dura neg.
 
Sekhmet would get an at least rating while Reid and the others get Mountain level i guess, though i guess Puck himself could also get at least rating since that feat was done literally by existing and is like half way to mountain level.
 
I remembered something: In the latest chapter, Reid was stated to be able to cut concepts (WCT mistranslated 概念 as 'reason iself'). But does that actually qualify for something? Because I'm pretty sure it's not enough for conceptual manip.
 
Reid can cut concepts? Yea that's concept manipulation, plenty of other characters get it for cutting concepts. Btw can you post the context of that, think the last chapter i read was 75 or 76.
 
It was chapter 79, it is this line:
縦一閃、衝撃波を伴った斬撃は大気を斬り、空間を斬り、概念を斬り裂く。

WCT translated it as With a vertical flash, his slash, which came with a shockwave, cut through the air, space and reason itself. But the word 概念 means 'concept' and not 'reason'.
 
Yup concept manipulation, damn Re Zero had some decent hax, but never expect someone who can cut concepts to show up, Reid is broken.
 
Sure you can ask a calc member to look at it, but yea even after it's accepted don't think we can do much with it besides giving Rem a 8-B rating with Al Huma,
 
Well, it can also go people who are superior in ice magic to her, namely Emilia. Speaking of Emilia, there is that feat where she defended against Melakura's attack that vaporized a lake. I avoided doing it because it's an obvious outlier, but if we now seperate heat feats it may actually be worth concidering.
 
I just took a look at Beako's profile and realized that EMM is miscategorized as power null when it's in fact a type of invulnerability like Regulus'. Meanwhile, Beako should have power null with EMT, except limited to magic only.

I also realized I can't make or edit blog posts, so I can't make calcs. When will that be fixed?
 
Supposed to be lifted today. I am busy making a major revision thread for another verse, so can't make any edits right now.

When it's lifted it's fine if you apply all the agreed changes.
 
No, most of the characters have no hax and the few that do have quite limited ones. The most haxed character is Regulus, I guess.
 
I mean, you can't deny me that Passive Madness isn't Broken.
Cutting through Space-time, Passive Emphatic/Mind/fear manip, etc......., I bet that witches would be able to take down characters with few Hax resistances like Goku or Saitama, for example.
Their passives are something those two can't deal with.
 
Well, the calcs for Julia and Rem's Al Huma were accepted. Guess I'll get to editing the pages begining with the verse page and the powers explanation to make it easier to justify the ratings for the mid tiers.

Some other things: What do we decide for the low tiers? Do we accept the WN statement? There is also Rom's feat of smashing that huge ice formation left by Puck and Emilia, I can try calcing that, too (I'd rather not).

Should the Whale be 8-B dura against magic? It did take 10 Al Goas at once with barely any damage, it's hairs are also capable of dispersing the mana of Rem's Al Huma if that's worth something.
 
The WN statement doesn't really contradict anything, so it's fine.

Did anyone remake the Whale tanking the Flugel tree with it's correct height? I thought i saw someone do it and it was 8-B.
 
Someone remade it in the general discussion, though I don't think it's archived on the new forum and the old forums are now gone.
 
Back
Top