Re:Zero Re:Visions 2nd Cour

[OppaiSenpai5]

Nvm, found it.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Forum isn't gonna be gone till like next 2 weeks. I found the calc

534/207)*50.292 = 129.738782609 meters tall

(133/207)*50.292 = 32.313217 metres radius

Flugel's Tree bole volume = 106394.727 m

General Sherman tree bole density = 0.92843211572 tons/m3

Flugel's Tree bole mass = 98780.2815038 tons

Energy = 57008841907 Joules (5.7e10)

(5.7e10)*3 = 1.71e11 or 8-B City Block Level

 

[OppaiSenpai5]

Well, this would kinda screw with the scaling seeing as even what the divided Whale, which has 1/3 the stats, tanked is 8-B and Wilhelm was able to chop off the fin of the full one.

Well, I'll leave it for later, it's not like this is an accepted calc.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Forgot about this, Julius needs a new key when he doesn't have his spirits.

 

[OppaiSenpai5]

It'll literally be a key with nothing but superhuman characteristics and sword mastery, but sure.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

I mean if Crusch has a key for her memory loss, so can Julius albeit, the cases are different there cause Crusch actually got weaker while Julius just losses all his hax.

But i think it's important enough to warrant a key since it's a plot point in arc 6 that Julius feels worthless cause he doesn't have his spirits anymore.

 

[OppaiSenpai5]

Alright, I was only able to get done with the mid tiers for today. I'll come back tomorrow to see if I missed something and get done with the rest of the revisions and I'll then iron out all of the pages' citations, justifications, etc.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Don't think Minerva's range is just standard melee, considering how she was shaking the whole area just by stomping and the sizable craters she made, just eyeballing.

Though speaking of those craters, it was made in a dream world by a Minerva who is just a soul, so it's weird.

 

[OppaiSenpai5]

I mean, she needs to punch you in order to heal you, the collateral debris can damage you.

Though, she was stated to be able to split the sky.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Relooked at Reinhard vs Garfiel a while back, and didn't see anything about Reinhard having an aura that makes people feel fear.

 

[OppaiSenpai5]

I think Garfiel was just afraid of his power, I'm not gonna go reread it right now.

Also, what did we dicide about giving Reinhard others' blessings?

And I still haven't added the new magic abilities to Ros and Dona's pages, but looking at it, Reinhard is missing resistances to those spells, too.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

It's a potential thing, if you want to add them do "Potentially Empathic Manipulation, Automatic Translation etc"

 

[OppaiSenpai5]

Okay, another thing: Most of the characters have High stamina for seemingly no reason. I'll be changing that to average or something.

I also am not sure why Daphne has desease manipulation, I think it's best that goes too.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Can't they just scale to Garfiel and Rem? Garfiel who can exercise for a week and Rem who can beat 1000 soldiers by herself, and can take numerous injuries and still keep fighting, albeit Rem is iffy since Oni's are noted to be tougher than normal.

I do remember Garfiel getting absolutely trashed by Kurgan but still kept fighting as well.

 

[OppaiSenpai5]

No because Garf has a blessing that constantly recovers his stamina and healing while Rem has regeneration and healing. And that statement about being able to beat 1000 soldiers that was from the Oni Village blah blah prequel, I checked it and it appears to be a generic Japanese phrase that means "to be a match for a thousand" but could also just mean "being a mighty warrior". Not to mention it was stated about an average oni warrior while Rem is physically below average due to having only one horn and has to compensate for it via magic and weaponry. Plus, 18 y/o Wil was only able to take on 300 demi-humans before going down and having to be rescued by Theresia (who herself then slayed 1000 demi-humans). And this High stamina stat is present even on profiles such as Ton, Chin, Kan and Otto for literally no reason.

Garf is Garf, there is a reason why he has High stamina, but many others have no feats to confirm them beeing able to take this much punishment or fight for such extended periods of time.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

High stamina being removed is fine with me then for people who have no evidence of it.

 

[OppaiSenpai5]

Kurgan shouldn't have vibration manip, it specifically says that it's not for characters that can generate shockwaves through brute force alone. And that statement that gives him air manip also seems dodgy, sounds to me like his attacks are just being referred to as gales; where is it from?

Also, Reid should have resistance to madness manip for being fine after meeting 3 witches.

And after checking with a Japanese speaker, I found that that statement about Jiwald being light speed is likely just hyperbole as it includes the phrase もかくやという which is used for giving unrealistic/extreme anologies and is often found in hyperboles. In fact, there is a similar statement about Shaula's Hell snipe moving at the speed of light, and we know that's in no way a thing.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

His opponent’s blow brought forth a fierce gale, a deadly tempest that raged at tremendous speeds. Step back or jump to the side, making a snap decision, Wilhelm plunged forward using his Holy Sword to shield himself.

The blade of his Holy Sword, which bore the name『Astrea』, caught the impact of his opponent’s cleaver, which was more than twice as wide as his own blade. His chosen steel took the blow right at its core, but it protected its owner without breaking.

???:「Just barely, though」

His opponent’s thunderous voice struck his eardrums just as the shockwave that followed his blow razed the stone street.

He’d just barely defended himself against the storm his opponent had unleashed. However, that sense of relief didn’t apply to his surroundings. The aftermath of his blow spread around them without relent, blowing away many of the townspeople who’d been making up the encirclement. - Sword Demon’s Battle Ballard Act 7

About Jiwald, isn't it also said to be a ray of heat that travels in a straight line? Not to mention it was reflected off Grimm's shield, just that might be enough to say it's light speed even without it being stated to be so.

 

[OppaiSenpai5]

It could, but I severely doubt that. See, if Jiwald is light speed, then young Wil is relativistic for being superior to people who've dodged it, and then people that've given him trouble, like that Earth Snake in EX 3 (same species as the worms in arc 6), are relativistic. Hell, that can make out Stride to be relativistic for blocking Grimm's attack, and he's just a sickly ol' guy.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Stride blocking Grimm's attack in the first place is an outlier regardless of light speed shenanigan's, cause as you said, he is a sickly guy.

Also again regardless of the consequences here, WIlhelm is still above ppl like Garfiel etc, so using the Earth Snake as an argument doesn't work either, cause we know he is superior to Garfiel etc, if the Snake gave him trouble, and then gets dealt with by weaker characters, that doesn't make sense, and is an inconsistent, not a problem with Wilhelm's strength.

 

[OppaiSenpai5]

You seem to be implying that the snake was dealt with by Garf or something which didn't happen. The only one I can recall killing the worm was Shaula.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

I am not, i am saying we know Wilhem is above those tiers of characters, so you bringing up the Snake to somehow discredit Wilhelm's speed, doesn't work.

If the evidence is still legit, ie moving in a straight line, being a heat ray, reflects, and characters who are clearly superior to most we see in the main cast, dodged it, i see no reason to downgrade them.

 

[OppaiSenpai5]

Then you'll have to end up upgrading all of the characters to relativistic because Roswaal in Oboreru reacted to Cecilus' attack and Cecilus is superior to Theresia who's superior to characters that are relativistic for dodging Jiwald.

 

[OppaiSenpai5]

And characters like Carol, Grimm and Julia are not "clearly superior" to most of the main cast.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Oboreru is a what if, and isn't that the same story where Kemono dono harms Reinhard, surely you aren't gonna argue Cecilius is 7-A now?

Also wasn't it said in the scans you posted a while back that Garfiel only beats Roswaal if they are close enough to be touching or something like that?

Carol and Grimm scale to Young Wilhelm. There is a difference between Young Wilhelm and Power of Love/Peak Wilhelm, they scale to the former.

Also isn't Roswaal's feat like 4 tons, while Al Goa is like 2? So even via feats they are superior.

 

[OppaiSenpai5]

The only thing I'm arguing is that there is clearly things that contradict characters being relativistic. For instance, Wilhelm almost died after taking out only 300 demi-human soldiers, and they wouldn't even be supersonic because they are weaker than the mid tiers.

And the Q&As stated that Roswaal would lose if he can't take flight so Garf would win a close-quarters battle. Plus, there is also this from his DC commentaries:

I'd forgotten about giant-sized Puck. I feel like who would win or lose between Roswaal and Wilhelm would change depending on the conditions. Whether it's a five-meter start, or a ten-meter start.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

You said the 300 demi-human soldiers aren't even supersonic, yet you are trying to use this to say Wilhelm isn't relativistic, don't you see how this is contradictory?

Lets say Wilhelm is just supersonic+, you yourself say the 300 demi-humans aren't supersonic, does that mean that Wilhelm is now not supersonic+?

This isn't even a speed feat, it's stamina.

 

[OppaiSenpai5]

You said the 300 demi-human soldiers aren't even supersonic, yet you are trying to use this to say Wilhelm isn't relativistic, don't you see how this is contradictory?

No, because if he was relativistic, he would have no problem taking down those fodder soldiers.

Lets say Wilhelm is just supersonic+, you yourself say the 300 demi-humans aren't supersonic, does that mean that Wilhelm is now not supersonic+?

That's a false equivalency. Numbers can compensate for a difference in power or speed of maybe up to a few times. Numbers CANNOT compensate for a difference in speed of upwards of tens of thousands of times.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Ok i will give you that, lets count it as an anti feat. We have how many feats of people dodging Jiwald? 3 or 4? Relativistic would be more consistent.

 

[OppaiSenpai5]

There is also the matter of Wilhelm struggling against those 40 knights in EX 3 (the Bordeax squad were there, but they weren't the only ones putting up a fight) an earth snake giving them trouble, which is a valid anti-feat seeing as it nearly killed them.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

So what do you propose downgrade everyone to Supersonic+?

I mean there is still Theresia's Hypersonic+ feat. Didn't she like kill hundreds of ppl to save Wilhelm or something?

Also based on what i remember in Ex Novel 3, Wilhelm wasn't at the level he was at vs Theresia, it was during the fight with Kurgan that he regained that speed and strength, which he used to overpower Kurgan.

Btw just noticed your profile pic, good stuff.

 

[OppaiSenpai5]

Without the plus because, again, we figured that that calc was bunk (I've already removed the plus from all the profiles).

Theresia's feat is fine, but it only scales to very few people.

Wilhelm may not have been as strong as he was when he fought Theresia, but he shouldn't be any weaker than his 18 y/o self which is supposedly relativistic. And those were the Sword Demon Ballads.

And thanks, it's a good pic indeed.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Didn't even notice the + signs were gone, lol.

So what will Reinhard and co's speed be? Hypersonic scaling to Theresia?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

What are the conclusions here?

 

[OppaiSenpai5]

What are the conclusions here?

There is no way in hell Jiwald is as fast as light, even the statement about its speed appears to be obvious hyperbole when looking at the raws and would more accurately translate as "at a speed (possibly) comparable to that of light (I guess?)" or something like that. The fact that there is also a statement about Shaula's Hell Snipe moving at the speed of light further discredits it. And while it meets some of the criteria like traveling in a straight line, reflecting and being stated to be a heat ray, you can't say that those definitively prove that it does travel at the speed of light. And even if it does, it's still just a massive inconsistency because nothing else supports such high speed ratings and there is plenty to contradict them (and no, multiple characters dodging the same highly questionable spell does not count as supporting evidence).

We should just go back to whatever speed scaling we had before.

 

[OppaiSenpai5]

Ok, since there hasn't been a response, I assume there are no more objections and I will apply the speed changes along with other proposed ones.

Also, since I finished volume 14, Hector needs to have Enhanced Senses while Elsa should have those skewers added to her equipment since we see her using them quite a lot.

I also came across statements about the concept of time not existing in that shadow realm Satella pulls Subaru in whenever he speaks of RbD. Does she get anything for being able to move in there?

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Was gonna make another thread for volume 14 stuff, but guess it can be done here, especially since it's not much. Will post what i have in a bit.

No, Satella gets nothing for that. It's her own ability so moving there wouldn't give time stop resistance, and moving where time doesn't exist isn't a speed feat anymore.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Extrasensory Perception for Roswaal (He can sense mana.)
Social Influencing for Pandora (Has inhuman beauty that causes others to tremble)
Animal Manipulation for Pandora (Can control the Black Serpent)
Perception Manipulation for Pandora (Caused Petelguese to see Fortuna as her. This is the reason why she has Illusion Creation but i think this fits more)
Causality Manipulation for Pandora (Pandora made it so Regulus was never there, and since he was never there, the results of his actions never happened. We have her ability listed as reality warping cause she can rewrite phenomenon, but causality manipulation makes more sense to me)

 

[OppaiSenpai5]

Ros is fine.

I'm very iffy on giving Pandora social influencing just for that one statement, especially when Tappei has stated that characters like Emilia are more beautiful.

We can't be sure if what Pandora did to bring the Black Snake there was specifically animal manipulation, it could be a variety of other things by which she made that possibly such as simple mind manip or even some application of causality manip.

Changing it to perception manip is fine by me.

Wait, she doesn't already have causality manip??? Yeah, of course it's causality manip instead.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Isn't that just Tappei's bias? He obviously has a thing for silver haired heroines. In story has Emilia ever been given these sorts of ridiculous descriptions like making those who see her tremble, the ideal image of beauty harbored by humans etc.

I do agree that we don't know how Pandora brought the Snake, speaking of that where is it stated she can't control the snake but can direct it? Wasn't in the LN.