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Re:Zero kara Hajimeru Isekai Seikatsu Discussion Thread 2 (aka rem: zero)

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Yes, 'blinking' in front of someone so that the person loses visual track of your movement is already Subsonic according to VSbattles. It would actually appear as a blur, but we don't have the threshold for something that travels faster than blur.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Speed

Subsonic (Faster than the Eye) (Mach 0.1-0.5) (34.3-171.5 m/s or 76.7-383.6 mph)

Emilia's speed in Episode 23 is also similar. She jumps straight into the air to dodge the invisible Hand (meaning that it's not aim dodge; she has to sense the Hand), and disappears from the screen in 2-3 frames or so. That would likely be at least subsonic levels of acceleration.

Emilia jump
Emilia jump1


So we can also scale Elsa to Emilia, that Elsa is faster than her.
 
Emilia is building level simply for being superior in magic to Rem

her durability and speed though doesn't seems that impressive tho she can be killed with singal stab
 
Her durability with magic is just Building level as she can just create ice shields that are as thick as what she throws at Betelgeuse. She produces them very quickly.

Emilia ice


Her durability without magic would be Street level or so; she wasn't injured or disoriented when all those objects behind the bar counter fell on her from 2 meters height, though she was killed by Elsa when ambushed.
 
i know i point out that it's the same how we scaled Rem durability form her attack AP i was talking about her body durability Which does not seems any difference than a regular human or at least she didn't show anything of that nature and since she is long range fighter she sucks at close range "which to be expected "

Emilia is magician so naturally she wasn't made to tank direct heavy attacks or being talented fighter like "Elsa , wilhelm , Rem " However when it comes to AP she must be far superior

she must be even better after the one year time skip int WN as she had whole year to train herself even more she probably can't do these very large ice crystal yet
 
Those images are from Arc 3, though by Arc 6 she performs all those feats by herself even without Puck.

Emilia's magic is already far superior to Rem because her mana is insane and she doesn't need to make incantations. (Al Human, etc)

By the way, Emilia survives this 720-degree roundhouse kick to her side without being hurt or losing her balance. She lands perfectly after being thrown that distance (which would indicate the amount of kinetic energy), while managing to keep her skirts straight to hide her underwears from view at the same time.

Elsa kick
Emilia skirt defense


So I think she can be treated as peak human or Street level.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Durability

Street level (Characters with peak human or slightly superhuman durability)
 
i know man i watched the episode xD

Yeah of course she already superior to Rem in magic Rem isn't magical specialty anyway she rely on her superhuman body and skill to fight Magic exist just to support while it's Emillia main power point and yeah after the one year time skip she can be as powerful without puck

while managing to keep her skirts straight to hide her underwears from view at the same time."


^That was unnecessary details ....

it's still bother me how Subaru could keep up while Emilia couldn't xD
 
without Puck is different case the spirit users are meant to fight alongside their spirits so there quite different when Puck isn't around though that not the case anymore
 
I know this is a long shot, but can we somehow use these to evaluate Minerva as potentially Planet level (destroy the world with punches) and Satella as Solar System level (destroy the world in Black Hole-fashion at least up to the Sun that we know exists)?

Satella:

[Echidna : If you won't accept example before, then, what would happen if Flugel didn't made the covenant with Volcanica?]

[Minerva : Reid alone couldn't have defeated her, and the whole world would be consumed.]

[Echidna : Consumed or whatever, would the world existed with only Witch of Envy left? If that universe existed as parallel, it would be interesting, right?] http://pastebin.com/YVMEi65h


Minerva, Witch of Wrath - Minerva has the power to "punch" people and heal them. Her powerful punches however destroys the world at the same time. Anytime she punches people back to health, catastrophe happens elsewhere in the world. Which causes more people to become injured, and she rushes there to punch them. This infinite cycle of destruction and healing caused more harm than good, but that never stopped her from continuing.
Busty and sexy late teen with a long blond hair, Minerva is a simple and honest minded girl who speaks her thoughts out straight forwardly.
http://pastebin.com/GbgUPSKZ

Power scaling:

Strength Ranking among 7 Witches

Envy > Sloth > Pride > Gluttony > Greed = Lust>>>>>>>>>Wrath

https://www.reddit.com/r/Re_Zero/comments/50y0pa/wnspoiler_authors_various_answers_on_characters/

Satella (or the Witch of Envy) is the strongest Witch while Minerva is the weakest.
 
Wasn't the world flat? That would drop the whole world-punching AP immensely methinks.

Also, she didn't seem to be able to destroy the world in one punch, but more of multiple punches that causes catastrophe elsewhere, lowering the AP even further as it was not done in one go.

No comment on Solar System Satella.
 
IIR Current AP calcs seem to use the amount of TNT equivalent needed to destroy/blanket planet's surface area within its radius, rather than volume, based on my observation of that Tier 6 Revision some time ago, so I don't know. But yes it would trivialize the 'curve' adjustment calculation by some unknown degree. We might need some clarification on this.

So are APs single feats? I think I've seen some feats that appear to list the highest damage a character has ever done with maximum effort (like the Balrog destroying the side of a mountain as he fought Gandalf), but if not okay then.

Dunno about Satella either. The comment just seems to make it sound like if Satella consumed everything, then even the Sun would be gone and she would be left alone in that universe.
 
Wow wow wow this is a massive long shot hienkel, minerva is not a fighther and even if she had offensive abilities which by the way she very well could as her healing works by bending cause and effect, she would never use them.

She is a complete pacifist and can't stand anyone or anything being hurt in her presence. Her healing consumes a massive amount of mana from the world which is what causes the catastrophes around the world and those aren't enough to destroy the planet, idk what those catastrophes are but i would assume natural disasters, the thing is though those would destroy the world over time not in one shot.

You are jumping the gun on solar system satella, it said the whole world would be consumed that just means the planet not the entire solar system and even then the re zero world isn't that big it's just one continent of 4 large countries so she would be continent level at best.
 
I understand though there are times when AP are scaled to the ability to cause earthquakes, like this one. https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Earthquake_Calculations So I'm asking for clarification and opinions on whether it is applicable.

From that calc page:

"An earthquake (also known as a quake, tremor or temblor) is the perceptible shaking of the surface of the Earth. Earthquakes can be violent enough to toss people around and destroy whole cities. Such earthquakes being caused by characters are a method useable to determine Attack Potency."


"She has physical power of shaking ground with her punch."

It's in the Reddit post. Doesn't say by how much the ground shakes, or how far the earthquake is felt, but it should be at least Richter scale 4 to be perceptible to human beings. What we lack is the radius.

About Satella, it depends on how we interpret Echidna's comment. If Satella consumes everything, is the Sun and the Moon (that Reinhard mentioned in episode 3) gone too, leaving her alone in the world?
 
Okay i stopped at :

Minerva as potentially Planet level (destroy the world with punches) and Satella as SolarSystem
 
I don't know from where you get the"solar system " from world refer only to the planet and the world of Re:Zero count only 4 continent btw so even if she counsom the whole world she isn't moving past continent level
 
Minerva being able to destroy the world is clearly figurative, as in while she is able to heal people others her ability also destroys them and the world so she kills as many people as she heals, she can't literally destroy the world it's a metaphor for her ability hurting others around the world.

Assuming satella to be able to consume literally everything is a massive assumption i think and is a bit fallacious, it just means everything in the world not everything in the solar system that's way too big an assumption unless we get explicit proof that mentions the sun or other things like that.
 
RZ's world is flat.

Also, it's tiny apparently.

That drops Minerva's AP quite a bit.

Iirc, AP is calced from just one attack and not a multitude of attacks. There are exceptions though like nature's energy equivalents (Moltres' energy release caused storms, but hey, it's technically one attack since all Moltres did was release the energy) which I guess would allow Minerva's earthquake, but only if it's done with one attack and not consecutive.
 
As I've said, first consider that the Sun and the Moon exists in Re:Zero, as they were mentioned by multiple characters. Then, give me an honest opinion whether it's irrelevant, after think about it first.

I have no problem hearing whatever answer, after you've pondered it first, and has thought of a possible reason why the existence of the Sun and the Moon, that would cease if Satella continues manifesting, would be entirely trivialized.

I know the approximate size of Re:Zero, though I will have to make a separate calc for that using the population and population density of Lugnica (50 million population for Lugnica, but seems to be with less density than Han China or the Roman Empire in its capital area... I need more regions to calculate).

I tried using the Earthquake calculator for a natural disaster. Richter Scale IV just in the vicinity of her punch would be impact energy around 294 kilotons. (any less energy is unable to cause any Earthquake of this magnitude)

To be honest, I spend many hours of my day doing various calcs, and I'm willing to wait many hours, days, and weeks for comprehensive answers too, so don't just give me predictable answers that I can come up by myself within minutes as well (like the scale of a continent, or how much mass Re:Zero has to have to produce the needed amount of gravitational force that I use for all my calc). You don't need to rush.
 
Just because the sun and the moon exist in the verse doesn't that satella can consume them. When they speak of the world they obviously are referring to the continent on which they all live and not the sun and moon, saying otherwise needs evidence to support that as in specific mention of the sun and moon being involved, assuming anything else is an association fallacy.

We should just wait until more is revealed about satella before doing or assuming anything really. Agreed with the your minvera cal though we should also wait for more details on that like what types of catastrophes she causes.
 
@Gemmysaur

Yes, TNT calcs as an explosive force would need the surface area to be measured. As I've said I know it's flat and smaller, but that still makes it possible to calc if surface area is given, and if Minerva's attack was in similar fashion to explosions.

Also, it's a bit inconsistent with some known mentions of 'horizons' in the WN that I can remember, but we can think about it later since we don't actually need it right now.

Natural disasters, on the other hand, don't need the surface area to be measured in a world that has Earth's level of gravity (Earthqukes on Moon density/gravity requires less energy, for example). They always yield a more or less uniform level of energy as long as the magnitude is known.

You just need to enter the magnitude here, and it will yield whatever energy is needed to produce that magnitude at her punch's impact point, under Earth's gravitational conditions: http://alabamaquake.com/energy.html#/
 
Celestial Pegasus said:
Just because the sun and the moon exist in the verse doesn't that satella can consume them. When they speak of the world they obviously are referring to the continent on which they all live and not the sun and moon, saying otherwise needs evidence to support that as in specific mention of the sun and moon being involved, assuming anything else is an association fallacy.
We should just wait until more is revealed about satella before doing or assuming anything really. Agreed with the your minvera cal though we should also wait for more details on that like what types of catastrophes she causes.
Click to expand...
This

there absolutely no evidence that she can consume the sun and other things , just because they exist in the verse doesn't mean Stella can't really consume them
 
Okay, for now I will agree that Echidna was talking about the four countries only.


For earthquake calc (I am not saying these should be used, it's only for reference):

The following values can be obtained assuming Re:Zero has the same gravitational effect as the Earth, and the ground beneath Minerva has Earth density:

Ritcher Scale 4: 295 kilotons

Ritcher Scale 5: 9.32 megatons

Ritcher Scale 6: 295 gigatons

Ritcher Scale 7: 9.32 teratons

Those are energy at the impact point, propagating towards any distance.

They have matching values at every next threshold (4/6 and 5/7) while jumping by one SI unit because the scale has been purposefully designed that way when it was invented.

We would have to wait for more info on how much destruction Minerva's earthquakes have caused in the past to get an estimate for the Ritcher Scale values.
 
I think this might not even be combat applicable anyway though. The catastrophes are side effects of her using her power to heal people, it's not something she wants to happen and it causes catastrophes around the world so it can happen anywhere it's not something she can will where she wants it to be and there is still the fact that minerva is complete pacifist who would never directly use her abilities to hurt others.

Who should be look at for destructive feats is hector the warlock of acedia, his ability to manipulate gravity could prove to be very destructive, just noticed that the rankings tappei gave didn't include hector and pandora lol.
 
No, she doesn't use it in direct combat, but the Author has already mentioned that Minerva used that power deliberately (not as side effects) a few times to stop raiders from some of the nations pursuing her when she was alive to make them give up. We'll get to know more of what she did then when we have chapters written for the Witches' past (Arc 8?).

Minerva feats will not be directly used for herself anyway, but does give a good reference point for where we can start calcs of superior Witches to make it less time consuming, given that she has so many >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> between her and Carmilia. (or Pandora or others in the future)

And, I don't think we can directly calc 'magical' gravitational effects. There is no known mathematical formula for calculating how localized gravitation changes via physical phenomenon. His gravity-shifting ability should be mentioned as one of his special magical feats, I think.

Though, if the gravitational effect propels something with a known mass at a great velocity, we can calc how much of the Earth's gravity + the object's mass (measured in Newtons) his magic has counter-acted. Unless if it's explicitly stated that his gravity magic simply negates gravity under any circumstance (similar to Gluttony's Mist of Elimination).
 
Yea i know, minerva has fought in wars before she started using her abilities to heal others, though after she started healing others she hasn't used them to really hurt others, stop them from pursuing her sure. It's still a useless ability in combat though cause she would only use it to heal her opponents, as a good reference point i could agree with though.

Though in re zero raw power really means nothing a lot of the witches use hax so not sure if scaling a raw power feat would apply to the others, i think it could maybe scale to pandora and hector more so hector though, the rest though just use purely hax that doesn't really involve the destruction of their environment but more so their opponents.
 
Well yeah, though in Sekhmet's (with her shadow Hand performing pulverizing feats) or Minerva's case (described as 'physical power'), we can treat them as physical events rather than haxes. Minerva can unintentionally cause natural diasters by unbalancing mana when she punches people, but she can also cause direct earthquakes when she punches the ground deliberately. Since the author likely did not intend that particular feat to be hax (he mentioned it being physical, after all), it would probably yield Daphne's (and other Witches') lower end with their own physical abilities or Unseen Hands, etc.
 
Ironically, Tappei has also mentioned that Sekhmet will destroy the other five Witches combined in about a minute. So combining the feats of all the five Witches put together would yield Sekhmet's feat, and thereby also other combatants who can defeat her (like Regulus who we really need to get a calc for in the future, given he's the second most powerful villain in the entire series). Such as, how much hax power Regulus needs to have to overcome Sekhmet's calculated Durability.
 
Well yea it would obviously scale to sekment with her hands and minerva does shake the ground with her physical punch, not sure if the other witches could replicate that kind of physical feat though, minerva is the weakest but that's cause her ability isn't combat apllicable and the others have hax. I mean typhon could kill you if she thinks you're guilty don't know if she also can physically shake the ground we would have to see the other witches physically match minerval either way though i find it unimportant as hax>dc anyway.
 
@Hienkel that's not exactly how it works i mean the other witches use hax but sehkment is a primarily physical fighter with her hands, i mean while the other witches are hax i would think sehkment could kill them all before they could even use their abilities, either that or sehkment has some hax resistance. Either way though things aren't simple, we need more details.

Regulus is stated to have destroyed a city in the past but we don't know the details but there is that, regulus has hax so he can just bypass sehkments durability. Even though sehkment is op in terms of dc it doesn't mean anything against hax that basically nopes all attacks unless you have some sort of time-space piercing ability like shaula.

@Zero What is there to say about pandora though she can reality warp, we just need to know her limits.
 
the author said if the witches were to fight sehkment will kill everyone in less than a minutes and shaula < all the sins , she will one shot Regulus if they were to fight
 
I think you meant shaula>the sins but i get your point, but the thing i was trying to get at is that not everything is simple, having the higher dc doesn't mean you will always win and the same goes for hax, it's a matter of affinity you could beat one character with your hax but can't beat another character below the one you beat because their hax counters your hax.

Case in point reinhard he couldn't just one shot regulus because of regulus's op hax and regulus would lose to shaula yet shaula can't beat reinhard even in his base this is because shaula has hax that can get past regulus's hax but that hax won't do anything to reinhard but reinhard doesn't have the hax to get past regulus's hax.
 
I will try using this comment from the reddit post where the fan-created map of Re:Zero was retrieved, for the approximate distance between landmarks in Lugnica.

Apparently, some people raised concern that the scalings on the map look way too small and did not seem to take into account known landmark distances (not to detract from the author's credit; he drew with only the info personally given to him, after all, without watching the anime).

https://www.reddit.com/r/Re_Zero/comments/4vdutj/first_ever_full_map_of_rezeros_entire_world_all/ "It's scale seems to be out of whack as well. It takes a day to travel to Fleur by dragon carriage, a day and half a night to get to the Flugel tree." (which are very short distances in-universe, but very long on Earth; see the calc below)

According to Subaru, it takes 14 hours (or right about one day and half a night in the anime as well) to reach Flugel's tree from the capital. He used his cellphone to measure this distance. The measuring device is the cellphone so it is accurate.

"- Right angle to the emergence trillion, the remaining time is 12 hours.
The distance remaining to the destination half way in the future. Is it time to get [there] five-hours [before battle]."

Half-way through the travel, Subaru checks his cellphone to see that it's 12 hours before the appearance of the White Whale, and that it would take 7 more hours to reach the destination, about 5 hours before his appearance. Half distance = 7 hours; Full distance = 14 hours. It's actually pretty straightfoward to interpret this in the original language; you can just check this again in the LN.


As you know in the anime, Ricardo Welkins said that the raiding group did not stop part way (except for a short break, if there were any) and were traveling at full speed because they were concerned that the Witch Cult could be following and intercept them (which, as you know, happens at the end of Arc 3). The WN's depiction of the travel is also consistent with this remark made by Ricardo that they will not stop to avoiding getting ambushed. (with half of the merc company deployed to guard the rear)

Subaru also mentions that the dragon he is riding has a speed of about 100 km/h.

And this is when he's on the carriage, not when he's riding it alone. It can apply as the lower-end for dragon carriages.

"Texture of the seat is befitting to build luxurious feel of private cars, it was a pleasant surprise as the one aboard sensitivity.
Throughout the cases go, not much maintenance. The speed of the passing scenery outside the window is fast, and let's imagine that you are contrasted with the experience of riding a passenger car original world comes close to 100 km [hour]."

So, how far is Flugel's tree from Lugnica's capital, that it would take 14 hours to get there (one whole daytime and half a night time, also consistent with the commentator's observation of the anime version) at 100 km/h? (and take note that the terrain around Flugel's tree is very flat for hundreds of miles, and they were mainly using the Lifaius Highway after making a small detour to flank an unnamed small city)

100 km/h * 14 h = 1400 km

If we assume that Flugel's tree is the farthest point from the capital ever (which of course we know is not, because Pristella and other cities in the opposite direction from Flugel's Tree along the highway are even farther than that), we can use it as the radius to get the surface area of Lugnica.

1400 km as radius = 6,160,000 km^2

about 2/3 the size of the United State of America

(the US in 1867, when it acquired the whole of its current territory, had 35 million population. Napoleonic France in early 1800s had 44 million population)

But we can try using just square surface area as well, by assuming that map has actually exaggerated the size of Lugnica a bit.

1400 km for side = 1,960,000 km^2

About 3/5 the size of India

That's the amount of land that Lugnica needs to have if we want to use Flugel's tree as the farthest point from the capital.


The Capital - Fugel Tree distance is also more or less consistent with other observations the commentator has made, that the level of resource production/trading needed for the 50-million population of Lugnica to be sustainable, would require it to be the size of at least a small continent by itself (Europe for example). In short, like about that of the Roman Empire.

If Lugnica instead trades the resources, then that other country should also be continental sized either way, while also being able to sustain its own development.

(for example, even modern countries with hax-level of industrial scale power, with 50 million population, regularly need somewhere else with continent-sized land masses to import the resources they need to sustain the population and keep GDP from falling).

Most of Lugnica's people are spread along country sides as well, since while the country has 50 million population, only 300,000 people are living in the capital. This would suggest a less population density than modern urbanized countries, and much closer to medieval or ancient European rural civilizations (14th century France, for example, had 20 million population for its land mass, while being much denser).

(The population quote is supplied in the WN: Subaru says that it took so long to find 5 candidates for 50 million people, but says it's understandable since this world doesn't have the technology needed for the task)

It's still WIP that I'm trying to look more info for. But yes, the Kingdom of Lugnica alone is generally treated to be a very large country/sub-continent in-universe, not a tiny one, with a mostly consistent population/demographic distribution to that land size. I'm just making some calcs using known values from Subaru's cellphone and his observation of dragon carriage's speed compared to a luxurious sedan, to examine this hypothesis.
 
Ah this is interesting information, i appreciate the effort you place into researching this stuff.

I had assumed that all of the 4 countries were large so this confirms it really. Btw if i remember correctly from the summary of arc 5 subaru and co were heading for the city of Priestella, which was next to the border between Lugnica and Kararagi and it took them 2 days to reach i think.

Edit: Just checked it took them 12 days but i think they would have stopped along the way there.
 
For 12 days we can use the 8-hour working day policy for modern Earth. travel from 9 am to 12 pm, take a lunch break, then again ride untll 6 pm, then check-in at an inn to rest. Wake up at 8 am and travel again.

So it would be around 96 hours by dragon carriage speed. That's already 1/5 of the world's circumference if we use the 100 km/h in the Highway flat, and represents the theoretical widest point for Lugnica, which... strangely, would already yield a similar surface land mass of Re:Zero to Earth, assuming that all countries have more or less similar sizes to Lugnica, just that it is completely flat.

This, by the way, is also quite consistent with the fact that Re:Zero has the same gravity as Earth, with the same rotation speed for day/night cycle, if we assume that the gravity is a physical phenomenon (and that the world is equally deep and dense straight down) rather than something completely magical.

For a lower end we can also try using 40 km/h of horse gallops (they sprint at 80 km/h) at the Lifaus Highway. That would put the distance between the capital and Pristella 3,840 km if they traveled for 8 hours a day for 12 days.
 
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