Re:Zero Kara Hajimeru Isekai Seikatsu Discussion Thread 18

[CyborgSakumo]

It was .55 tons before, but got updated to 2.24 tons, the profiles just haven't been updated yet.

There are arguments to scale the characters to the whale who is 8-B, but i just haven't made a thread. Despite been such a good series, there really isn't that much support for Re Zero on here, always a pain to get anything passed, and i am basically the only one who makes the threads.

So basically it will happen when i feel like it, realistically something to add on to the next CRT, for when the next LN volume is translated

K, I'm considering making a Re zero thread with gluttony(rai).Two things, is there any decent speed calcs or do we just assume above baseline. Second, for Rai's profile do we consider his Al huma 8-B while in lunar eclipse or only in solar eclipse. (For both rem and emilia's techniques).

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

There aren't any speed calcs, there was one for Elsa, done years ago, but that had issues, so it was scrapped. We just have numerous feats like Elsa being faster than sound, Sirius catching Subaru's whip which is faster than sound, Emilia from my memory dodging Volcanica's causal attacks which are faster than sound etc.

Wouldn't Rai be 8-B with both? The profile just neglected to say something like 8-B with magic, but going to be pointless to add if he ends up plain 8-B anyway.

 

[CyborgSakumo]

Also, this is a side note but why does no one scale to Emilia's ice techniques when several characters are comparable. If I remember correctly, Wrath fights against her with her fire powers, gluttony in solar eclipse straight up tanks an attack, and any characters who scale from there should be comparable, which is basicially the entirety of midtier.

From what I see emilia's calc is higher than the white whale's(which is weird because it implies emilia is stronger than the white whale which is far from the truth.) so if everyone scales to emilia it kind of renders the white white whale portion meaningless.

 

[ZERO7772]

Reddit making Goku vs Reinhardt

Is there any limit to Reinhardt's resurrection blessing btw? Like, does he keep on coming back even if you kill him billion of times? What if Goku just Hakai his soul? Does he still come back?

I am curios.

 

[SuperKamiNappa]

Does Reinhard have anyway of overcoming the massive gap in both Durability and Speed?

Rein can survive in space right?

 

[RinneItachi]

Reddit making Goku vs Reinhardt

Is there any limit to Reinhardt's resurrection blessing btw? Like, does he keep on coming back even if you kill him billion of times? What if Goku just Hakai his soul? Does he still come back?

I am curios.

There is a limit...technically speaking. Reinhard can only have one Divine Blessing of the Pheonix or whatever it's called. And when he uses it, he can never use that specific blessing again, but then he'll get the Next Blessing of the Pheonix, and then another one after that, and so on. The reason why is because the world itself, which is what gives Divine Blessing's in the first place, will not let him die.

But if Goku Hakai'd him yeah he'd probably die. Nothing suggests he can come back even if his soul is destroyed.

 

[RinneItachi]

Does Reinhard have anyway of overcoming the massive gap in both Durability and Speed?

Rein can survive in space right?

No he doesn't. I mean he does have matter manipulation but we don't know if it'd effect Goku.

Yes he can. If he was thrown into space he'd just adapt to it, according to Tappei himself.

 

[ZERO7772]

There is a limit...technically speaking. Reinhard can only have one Divine Blessing of the Pheonix or whatever it's called. And when he uses it, he can never use that specific blessing again, but then he'll get the Next Blessing of the Pheonix, and then another one after that, and so on. The reason why is because the world itself, which is what gives Divine Blessing's in the first place, will not let him die.

But if Goku Hakai'd him yeah he'd probably die. Nothing suggests he can come back even if his soul is destroyed.

What if Goku BFR to another universe where his blessing doesn't work? I mean, Jesus-kun only has the Pheonix blessing going for him.

What about sealing btw? Does Rein have a counter for that?

 

[RinneItachi]

What if Goku BFR to another universe where his blessing doesn't work? I mean, Jesus-kun only has the Pheonix blessing going for him.

What about sealing btw? Does Rein have a counter for that?

Goku can't BFR unless we're talking about the games, and Reinhard resists BFR. But yeah if Reinhard is outside of his universe he loses all of his Divine Blessings. Directly confirmed by Tappei.

I believe not. Maybe he could gain a resistance but we don't know. So yeah Mafuba GG.

 

[SuperKamiNappa]

Goku can't BFR unless we're talking about the games, and Reinhard resists BFR. But yeah if Reinhard is outside of his universe he loses all of his Divine Blessings. Directly confirmed by Tappei.

Can Goku IT to other universes? If not he could just strand Reinhard on another planet and BFR that way

 

[RinneItachi]

Can Goku IT to other universes? If not he could just strand Reinhard on another planet and BFR that way

Needs to sense Ki to use IT. So unless there's a big Ki he can teleport to, no. That could also be considered outside help in a way. Not to mention that's extremely out of character if we're counting that.

 

[Lgamer099_99]

Re zero novels are now 100% canon after the creation of a LN for Kasaneru, It's just a matter of time before we get LN for Oboreru and Ayamatsu.
So will you finally upgrade Cecils to Reinhard's level?

 

[RinneItachi]

Re zero novels are now 100% canon after the creation of a LN for Kasaneru, It's just a matter of time before we get LN for Oboreru and Ayamatsu.
So will you finally upgrade Cecils to Reinhard's level?

Cecils equal to Reinhard in what aspects and for what reasons?

 

[Lgamer099_99]

Cecils equal to Reinhard in what aspects and for what reasons?

https://vsbattles.com/threads/cecils-segmud-upgrade.114014/

 

[RinneItachi]

I already agree with the what if's being at least semi-canon. By that I mean the powerscaling should, at the very least, be accurate, if nothing else. This isn't some fan made thing that was just approved by Tappei. He literally wrote these stories himself. Why would he intentionally make the characters have different power levels in the what if stories? That just doesn't make sense.

But I wouldn't put Cecils actually on Reinhard's level. I do believe he should have an "At least", with a "likely higher/far higher", sure, simply due to the fact that he can make Reinhard draw Reid. Actually I already think it's weird that prime Wilhelm doesn't have something like that on his profile. Maybe the whole Great Spirit thing could give him a more solid upgrade as well, but that's a specific topic I'd rather not delve into.

Also, it'd probably be easier to upgrade his speed, just throwing that out there.

 

[ZERO7772]

Arc 7 should give us more context on Cecils's status since its main setting is Vollachia

Maybe you get what you want this arc.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Drawing Reid isn't indicative of strength, as even Theresia is enough for that.

The if's being in LN form doesn't really change much, as it's different routes.

Really not interested in rehashing the same arguments about Envy Route Cecils, how about we wait for him in arc 7?

 

[Lgamer099_99]

The if's being in LN form doesn't really change much, as it's different routes.

Different routes doesn't mean different scaling.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

It does if it contradicts the main route.

-Multiple wog that state Cecilis is Peak Wilhelm/Theresia level

-Direct feats from Ex Novel 4, where Reinhard initially no diff him, and then a vague 2nd encounter with Celis with his best swords, and Reinhard with Reid, Reinhard obviously won.

Currently at best i would grant Ceclis is a possibly rating of scaling to Reinhard, cause it's not definitive, and i don't see the point in doing so if we get even further confirmation in arc 7, that he does indeed scale.

Edit: Unless my memory is wrong doesn't Subaru in one of the if's, after dying a bunch get to the point where he could predict Elsa's moves and dodges her? Maybe even wins? Not sure of the last part but even if you could predict all a person's moves, Elsa being supersonic obviously makes this very illogical.

There is also the feat of Subaru killing Petelguese in the Pride if with a knife, same Petelguese who tanked a mana stone exploding on him, or Julius's attacks, i guess you can make the knife in fiction ignores durability argument, but the scaling in the ifs aren't exactly perfect.

 

[SuperKamiNappa]

i guess you can make the knife in fiction ignores durability argument, but the scaling in the ifs aren't exactly perfect.

That wouldn’t be super inconsistent for Re:Zero considering fodder Cultists were able to injure Oni form Rem with a seemingly regular knife. Or fodder Wolgarms (even Subaru could kill one) being implied to be able kill Rem, in great enough numbers

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Mabeast are pretty much glass canons, it's very consistent they can harm the cast while having bad durability, ie the hungry horses from arc 6, who can harm Julius yet Anastasia (Echidna) can harm them, or the other examples you brought up.

But yea stuff like fodder cultist being able to harm Rem is pretty much as you said.

Would have to reread the ifs to see if my memory of Subaru dodging Elsa's attacks are valid.

Anyway, as for Cecilis, i don't see the harm in waiting for him to show up in arc 7.

Btw what's everyone's thoughts on arc 7 so far?

 

[SuperKamiNappa]

It’s all right so far, not one of my favorite arcs though. Still in general I am excited to explore one of the other nations and to finally have Rem back.

As a side note If we do have Cecil back scale from Rein is there any chance that Wilhelm/Theresia/Kurgan would scale to or so they have some sort of anti feat?

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

The fact that Reinhard>>>>>>>Wilhelm? This is one of the reasons why i am against Cecilis scaling in the first place.

Q: If Wilhelm at his strongest point, and the current Reinhard were to fight, what would happen?

A: Under the condition that they’re honestly trying to kill each other, Wilhelm would be instantly killed.

Q: The strength of the golden age Wilhelm-san is said to be enough to match successive generations of Sword Saints but then, is it okay to recognize that only Reinhard is outstanding among the Sword Saints?

A: Reinhard>Reid>>>Wilhelm (power of love)>successive Sword Saints (Tereshia)>normal youth Wilhelm>>old Wilhelm is what it looks-Q&A #13

As for my thoughts on arc 7, it has a lot of potential i think, it hit the ground running, contrasted to other arcs where there is a build up, Subaru is not in his element, has none of the people he relies on, and is forced to confront his hero complex, not to mention its interesting watching this new Rem, and Vincent, gonna be pretty hype when Garfiel, Roswaal etc show up.

 

[RinneItachi]

It does if it contradicts the main route.

-Multiple wog that state Cecilis is Peak Wilhelm/Theresia level

-Direct feats from Ex Novel 4, where Reinhard initially no diff him, and then a vague 2nd encounter with Celis with his best swords, and Reinhard with Reid, Reinhard obviously won.

Currently at best i would grant Ceclis is a possibly rating of scaling to Reinhard, cause it's not definitive, and i don't see the point in doing so if we get even further confirmation in arc 7, that he does indeed scale.

Edit: Unless my memory is wrong doesn't Subaru in one of the if's, after dying a bunch get to the point where he could predict Elsa's moves and dodges her? Maybe even wins? Not sure of the last part but even if you could predict all a person's moves, Elsa being supersonic obviously makes this very illogical.

There is also the feat of Subaru killing Petelguese in the Pride if with a knife, same Petelguese who tanked a mana stone exploding on him, or Julius's attacks, i guess you can make the knife in fiction ignores durability argument, but the scaling in the ifs aren't exactly perfect.

I believe it was said that Subaru learned to dodge some of her attacks, but that it was completely impossible for him to win on his own no matter what he did. Most likely Elsa always start's off by toying with him, then easily kills him when she gets a bit serious. Similarly to how she toys with him in the show, although the feat of him intercepting her last ditch effort to kill Emilia just because he knows she'll aim for the gut was a bit of PiS for sure.

Yeah that's in the same if as with Elsa. I don't recall Petelgeuse tanking a mana stone, nor Julius' attacks especially. I'm pretty sure he blocked the mana stone with his earth magic, and at best only some of the impact hit him, and then I recall all of the attacks from Julius easily piercing Petelgeuse, he only survives because of his possession ability and his insane love to Satella giving him some supernatural willpower. I'm pretty sure it's more so implied that Petelgeuse only has slightly superhuman strength at best or something, and for the most part is unimpressive in a physical sense. He was also easily killed by the Wolfgarm after swapping bodies with one of his fingers.

 

[Lgamer099_99]

Q: If Wilhelm at his strongest point, and the current Reinhard were to fight, what would happen?

A: Under the condition that they’re honestly trying to kill each other, Wilhelm would be instantly killed.

Bruh, but the same author decided to write Cecils vs Reinhard in the wrath if, and not only Cecils survives but he also leaves a lot of bruises and injuries on Reinhard.
For me the Q&A is less valid than what is written in the Ifs, Ifs are less valid than main route and I agree, but the Q&A isn't the main route, in fact in the main route Ram says that there are at least some people who come at least close to Reinhard and they're Cecils, Halibel and the Mad Prince.
Here the statement:

Ram:「If we put confidence in Barusu and Emilia-sama’s words then our enemy is of the same caliber as the Knight Reinhardt… If as said they truly are equal to the world’s strongest man, then there’s one that’s at least close to his level in every part of the world.

See, the Ifs doesn't contradict the main route, it's the Q&a who contradicts two other sources.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

That Ram statement is referring to the strongest of each country, and then assuming that all of them are on the same level, Reinhard isn't just the strongest in his country, i don't put much stock in those statements, this sort of common knowledge in Ex Novel 4, basically had everyone believing that cause Cecilis and Reinhard are the strongest in their own countries, they were on the same level, which turned out to not be the case at all.

It's not just the q and a's, Cecilis direct feats in Ex novel 4, has him being low diff by a nerfed Reinhard, and i assume you are gonna argue that with his best sword he somehow is gonna go from being a no diff to a nerfed Reinhard to around normal Reinhard tier, which is an assumption.

The fact is we have conflicting information here, this isn't clear cut, hence why i said i would accept a possibly rating for Cecilis, but it's not worth if if we are just gonna get more evidence soon.

 

[ZERO7772]

Reddit actually debating Reid vs Cecilis

 

[Phoenks]

Lol Reid murders him negative difficulty

 

[Lgamer099_99]

Reddit actually debating Reid vs Cecilis

Link, I am curious since I am the only one here who see it as a good fight

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Even if you believe he is Reinhard level in terms of physicals, Reid is too haxed for him.

 

[Worthless]

Okay so I'm been wondering this where does the Mountain level rating came from?

 

[Worthless]

Also can Reinhard possibly have resistance to concept rating on his profile? Since the author yeah, stated he can toe to toe with someone who can cut concept itself

 

[ZERO7772]

Context is too vague, what is Reid's limit to concept cut and how exactly Reinhard would approach the fight when he can't even use the dragon sword against Reid isn't known.

If Reid could really cut any concept he could just cut the concept of blessing from Rein-chan then proceed to beat the shit out of him since Reid is actually a more skilled swordman.

 

[Worthless]

Oh yeah nevermind the resistance to concept since i bet his sword ain't even passing Reinhard skin anyhow the Mountain level rating where did it came from?

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Scaling above Puck who is very close to being mountain level.

Btw reading vol 17, either i remembered the WN wrong or Sirius authority is more broken in the LN, it's said to work on a level beyond the senses, working on the soul.

Thinking it's the LN boosting her, since i would have noticed that, and the fact that later we get shit like Reinhard coming back from being sent to the moon.

 

[Worthless]

Scaling above Puck who is very close to being mountain level.

Oh okay

Btw reading vol 17, either i remembered the WN wrong or Sirius authority is more broken in the LN, it's said to work on a level beyond the senses, working on the soul.

Thinking it's the LN boosting her, since i would have noticed that, and the fact that later we get shit like Reinhard coming back from being sent to the moon.

I remember that too in WN there is multiple statements supporting that her authority can affect soul as well:

— Sirius could transfer Deaths if anyone died in her vicinity.

Not just brainwashing with emotional changes. Even changes that occurred in the body could be shared. It wasn’t merely brainwashing, but bodywashing. Or could it be called soulwashing?

In other words, killing her meant killing all of the people in that square.

Subaru: “What to do?” - ch.22

And this too:

Beatrice took the useless Subaru’s hand with her own.

The warmth in the palm of her hand gave him the strength to speak his next words.

Sirius, Wrath, could connect senses and brainwash souls, and, taking into account the difficulty of communication, Beatrice’s perception of danger would be skewed. - ch. 23

I thought the reason she doesn't have that rating on her profile is because it was deemed as mistranslation

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Seems it was just missed.

 

[Bernkastelll]

Previous thread: Here

Link to the light novel

LN link not working

 

[Worthless]

Soul manipulation for sirius and resistance to soul for reinhard then?

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

@Bernkastelll There ya go.

@Worthless Reinhard already has soul resistance due to having resistances to dark/yin magic which can do that, but considering that authorities>magic, i guess you could say his resistance and Sirius ability is above baseline.

Priscilla and Felt would also get the soul resistance.