Re-adding a justification to Welt's profile.

[Shiroiyo]

Basically, Welt used to have a 4-C feat as supporting evidence in his profile, before the first deletion of the Honkai profiles. The feat was eventually removed due to translation errors, but upon closer inspection, we realized that the feat should still be valid. The reason of the removal was added text (Basically the entire quote was rewritten) which was not present in the raw, but the main thing was the addition of the following passage: “1.4 solar masses” as the value was the reason for the upgrade, the feat was then removed, but it is valid even when using the raws and I will explain this below.

The official translation, and the raw.

As you may have noticed, the Chandrasekhar Limit is still present in both scans on the dashboard. Okay, but mentioning it without any context isn't going to make the character scale to that value. That's true, however the CN text gives us this context. Translating Welt's words from "模拟恒星坍缩的过程将律者核心内的崩坏能压缩到极限让核心的物理结构崩坏然后核心就会转换成纯粹的崩坏能，引发巨大的爆炸。将一切化作尘埃" to english "The process of simulating a star's collapse compresses the Honkai energy in the Herrscher core to the limit, causing the core's physical structure to collapse. The core then converts into pure Honkai energy, triggering a massive explosion, turning everything into dust"

Simple, Welt can compress all the Honkai energy inside his Herrscher core, making the core release energy causing a massive explosion, the same as a detonation of a star. Honkai energy is accepted as a UES here, allowing Welt to scale to his core energy, since he literally uses honkai energy for everything. That alone would be 4-C in itself, since it's an equivalent explosion, but with Chandrasekhar limit present on the panel explaining what Welt said he was going to do, we can use its value in the scaling... which doesn't change because it would still be 4-C. That's it. The explosion coould be formed with Welt only having 47% of his energy btw

Edit: Sirin's AP/Durability would scale to this value, as Welt mentioned that his explosion would only have 1% of besting her, and that she was too strong for him.

 

[GarrixianXD]

Since I helped with this CRT, I ofc agree.

 

[Enryu_The_Red_Tower]

I agree with this

 

[SODAKU]

Seems correct , I agree

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

Seems straight forward, ok.

 

[Woomica]

I agree aswell

 

[inkownn]

This doesn’t seem that accurate in my opinion. You base your claim off three main pieces of evidence: That, “The process of simulating a star's collapse compresses the Honkai energy in the Herrscher core to the limit” implies that the explosion simulates the energy required to compress a star rather than simply simulating the process (compressing something above its limit to cause an explosion, which is actually says in the quote); and that the mention of the Chandrasekhar limit implies Mr. Welt is compressing his core with that weight, rather than an alternate interpretation in which Welt is simply imitating the idea around the Chandrasekhar limit (in the sense that certain things can be compressed with enough energy to explode).
To elaborate more on the second point, every object compressed to a certain degree will result in a catastrophic explosion due to the merging of electron and protons into neutrons (and even more can cause the matter to collapse into a black hole). However the amount needed to compress to this extreme point varies depending on the properties of the object. The Chandrasekhar limit is relevant to understanding the amount of energy needed to compress an object to this point, as it shows how much needed to compress a white dwarf star to this said point. So this being on the screen could just be verifying certain calculations to mimic said compressibility, not dictating how much Welt has to compress his core by. Or simply put, Welt’s core isn’t a white dwarf star so why would the Chandrasekhar limit be here to say how much Welt should compress his core by?

Also, if Welt truly compressed his core to this amount and succeeded into killing Sirin (which was his goal even if he knew the chances were slim), he would’ve literally nuked the earth and possibly the whole Solar System. Which is definitely something he would not want to do or risk.

 

[Lynieryz]

Agree FRA

 

[GarrixianXD]

This doesn’t seem that accurate in my opinion. You base your claim off three main pieces of evidence: That, “The process of simulating a star's collapse compresses the Honkai energy in the Herrscher core to the limit” implies that the explosion simulates the energy required to compress a star rather than simply simulating the process (compressing something above its limit to cause an explosion, which is actually says in the quote); and that the mention of the Chandrasekhar limit implies Mr. Welt is compressing his core with that weight, rather than an alternate interpretation in which Welt is simply imitating the idea around the Chandrasekhar limit (in the sense that certain things can be compressed with enough energy to explode).

What are you trying to say here?

To elaborate more on the second point, every object compressed to a certain degree will result in a catastrophic explosion due to the merging of electron and protons into neutrons (and even more can cause the matter to collapse into a black hole). However the amount needed to compress to this extreme point varies depending on the properties of the object. The Chandrasekhar limit is relevant to understanding the amount of energy needed to compress an object to this point, as it shows how much needed to compress a white dwarf star to this said point. So this being on the screen could just be verifying certain calculations to mimic said compressibility, not dictating how much Welt has to compress his core by. Or simply put, Welt’s core isn’t a white dwarf star so why would the Chandrasekhar limit be here to say how much Welt should compress his core by?

What? It explicitly said that he uses his powers and the Chandrasekhar Limit is blatantly shown in the background; it's clear that his core correlates to the properties of a white dwarf. The Chandrasehkar Limit is the maximum mass of a stable white dwarf that can withstand before collapse into a neutron star. And again, I'm lost about the main point you're even trying to make here.

Also, if Welt truly compressed his core to this amount and succeeded into killing Sirin (which was his goal even if he knew the chances were slim), he would’ve literally nuked the earth and possibly the whole Solar System. Which is definitely something he would not want to do or risk.

Perhaps research more about attack potency and destructive capacity. And with all due respect, we don't scale characters like that.

 

[inkownn]

What are you trying to say here?

It was pretty clear. You say the simulating the process of a stellar explosion implies that it has the exact same energy values as one, when that’s not necessarily the case. He could simply be imitating the process, that is, compressing his core beyond its limit to cause an explosion. I’m not sure how more clear I can be.


“It explicitly said that he uses his powers and the Chandrasekhar Limit is blatantly shown in the background”
Uhh so? I already explained an alternate interpretation that involves the Chandrasekhar Limit being used as a medium to understand how to compress his core to the amount needed to cause an explosion. To make it easier to understand, it’s irrelevant that the limit was shown as it is not stated to correlate to the amount of mass needed to compress his core. It could be there because they were researching how stars explode. This would be like me trying to make a nuke and having the Tsar Bomb in my search history. It doesn’t mean the nuke I’m making is tsar bomb level, just that I researched it to assist in making my own.

“it's clear that his core correlates to the properties of a white dwarf”
Why? Two things being on the same panel doesn’t imply they are correlated in terms of property. The OP actually establishes this but chooses to ignore it for some reason.

“And again, I'm lost about the main point you're even trying to make here.”
Is it, that hard to understand? Maybe it’s my fault, let me super simplify.
1. The quote itself never says that it'll cause "a massive explosion, the same as a detonation of a star". It just says that it simulates a process similar to it.

2. Chandrasekhar limit being present in the background means nothing, you’d have to prove to correlation is in complement to what Welt has to do which is impossible as nothing in the panel proves it.

“Perhaps research more about attack potency and destructive capacity. And with all due respect, we don't scale characters like that.”
I know how vsbw works, you are misinterpreting what I’m saying so hard it’s crazy.
I’m not saying that, “Welt didn’t destroy the planet so he can’t be star level” I’m saying, “When you compress stuff that much, stuff explodes hard and would destroy the planet”. Compressing his core, which is apparently now a dwarf star according to you, by 1.4 solar masses would’ve caused an explosion that blows up the earth. There’s no way around this fact. Welt, the protector of humanity, would never put the planet at risk like that. And so it’s likely he isn’t actually creating an actual supernova on this degree.

 

[GarrixianXD]

It was pretty clear. You say the simulating the process of a stellar explosion implies that it has the exact same energy values as one, when that’s not necessarily the case. He could simply be imitating the process, that is, compressing his core beyond its limit to cause an explosion. I’m not sure how more clear I can be.

So you're saying that the explosion is a chain reaction? The compression of the core mimics the process of a white dwarf star collapse; it was stated to be able to cause a massive explosion from nuclear fusion. That doesn't sound like a chain reaction to me if it's a quick process.

“It explicitly said that he uses his powers and the Chandrasekhar Limit is blatantly shown in the background”
Uhh so? I already explained an alternate interpretation that involves the Chandrasekhar Limit being used as a medium to understand how to compress his core to the amount needed to cause an explosion. To make it easier to understand, it’s irrelevant that the limit was shown as it is not stated to correlate to the amount of mass needed to compress his core. It could be there because they were researching how stars explode. This would be like me trying to make a nuke and having the Tsar Bomb in my search history. It doesn’t mean the nuke I’m making is tsar bomb level, just that I researched it to assist in making my own.

It was said that it mimicked the collapse of a star, and showed the Chandrasekhar Limit in the background. If that doesn't imply then why would they research about the Chandrasekhar Limit?

“it's clear that his core correlates to the properties of a white dwarf”
Why? Two things being on the same panel doesn’t imply they are correlated in terms of property. The OP actually establishes this but chooses to ignore it for some reason.

Yeah, it is; it's stated that compression of the herrscher core and the nuclear fusion mimics a star collapse. The Chandrasekhar Limit appearing in the background implies the properties; this is simple logic.

“And again, I'm lost about the main point you're even trying to make here.”
Is it, that hard to understand? Maybe it’s my fault, let me super simplify.
1. The quote itself never says that it'll cause "a massive explosion, the same as a detonation of a star". It just says that it simulates a process similar to it.

It has to yield the same energy output and gravitational collapse in order to be comparable in the first place.

2. Chandrasekhar limit being present in the background means nothing, you’d have to prove to correlation is in complement to what Welt has to do which is impossible as nothing in the panel proves it.

What's shown in the panel clearly proves. What else would it be then?

“Perhaps research more about attack potency and destructive capacity. And with all due respect, we don't scale characters like that.”
I know how vsbw works, you are misinterpreting what I’m saying so hard it’s crazy.
I’m not saying that, “Welt didn’t destroy the planet so he can’t be star level” I’m saying, “When you compress stuff that much, stuff explodes hard and would destroy the planet”. Compressing his core, which is apparently now a dwarf star according to you, by 1.4 solar masses would’ve caused an explosion that blows up the earth. There’s no way around this fact. Welt, the protector of humanity, would never put the planet at risk like that. And so it’s likely he isn’t actually creating an actual supernova on this degree.

I see no contextual relevancy to debunking this feat then.

 

[Shiroiyo]

Back I am.

It was pretty clear. You say the simulating the process of a stellar explosion implies that it has the exact same energy values as one, when that’s not necessarily the case. He could simply be imitating the process, that is, compressing his core beyond its limit to cause an explosion. I’m not sure how more clear I can be.

“And again, I'm lost about the main point you're even trying to make here.”
Is it, that hard to understand? Maybe it’s my fault, let me super simplify.
1. The quote itself never says that it'll cause "a massive explosion, the same as a detonation of a star". It just says that it simulates a process similar to it.

Your interpretation doesn't work in this case, Welt didn't say that he would just compress the core to generate an explosion, he said directly that he would do the same stellar explosion process, in case you don't know, supernova (really big explosions) are generated by the same process, the collapse of a star. Something you can see right here on the wiki. You're practically arguing that in reality, the collapse of stars into explosions have no effect, that it is just a process and there is no energy involved.

“it's clear that his core correlates to the properties of a white dwarf”
Why? Two things being on the same panel doesn’t imply they are correlated in terms of property. The OP actually establishes this but chooses to ignore it for some reason.

2. Chandrasekhar limit being present in the background means nothing, you’d have to prove to correlation is in complement to what Welt has to do which is impossible as nothing in the panel proves it.

You should read the OP again because I said that in the context it was possible to use the limit. Welt gave us the context of this panel by telling us that this is what he was going to do. Welt saying that he was going to cause the stellar collapse process and the panel is saying the same thing. Not everything has to be spoonfeed to you, the context here makes it clear.

“Perhaps research more about attack potency and destructive capacity. And with all due respect, we don't scale characters like that.”
I know how vsbw works, you are misinterpreting what I’m saying so hard it’s crazy.
I’m not saying that, “Welt didn’t destroy the planet so he can’t be star level” I’m saying, “When you compress stuff that much, stuff explodes hard and would destroy the planet”. Compressing his core, which is apparently now a dwarf star according to you, by 1.4 solar masses would’ve caused an explosion that blows up the earth. There’s no way around this fact. Welt, the protector of humanity, would never put the planet at risk like that. And so it’s likely he isn’t actually creating an actual supernova on this degree.

This depends on ignoring the mechanism of Honkai energy, we have been told and shown that Honkai energy can be concentrated and restricted to the smallest possible space, something like an energy beam for example, Welt is able to restrict the AOE of that explosion since it was literally said that the explosion was just Honkai energy.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Looks alright.

 

[inkownn]

So you're saying that the explosion is a chain reaction?

Most certainly not what I said in the slightest. I’m saying it imitates the process of a stellar collapse, as in the steps involved (compress to go boom). There’s no evidence that it imitates the energy used as well, as imitating a process is not the same as imitating something exactly. To give perspective; I can imitate my friend’s action of drinking from a water bottle, in the sense of picking it up and drinking it, but that doesn’t necessarily mean we had drank the same amount of water.

“It was said that it mimicked the collapse of a star, and showed the Chandrasekhar Limit in the background. If that doesn't imply then why would they research about the Chandrasekhar Limit?”
Small mistake here that makes a big impact on the interpretation. It does not say it mimics the collapse of the star, it says it mimics the process in which stars collapse. This is crucial as it differentiates copying something exactly and copying the steps to which to do something. You ask why they would research about the Chandrasekhar limit but I talked about that multiple times already. It’s there because they were researching the process behind how stars explode. When doing this you’ll naturally come across the limit. I’ve provided this alternate interpretation multiple times but you have just kept trying to refute it by saying “But it is correlated”. You need to prove that they are correlated in terms of Welt needing to use that much energy beyond the fact they are just on the same screen. Refer back to my Tsar Bomb example.

Yeah, it is; it's stated that compression of the herrscher core and the nuclear fusion mimics a star collapse. The Chandrasekhar Limit appearing in the background implies the properties; this is simple logic.
It talks about mimicking the process behind the star collapse, and so it would be quite obvious the limit appears on the screen as the limit is an important part about knowing how stars explode. So then Welt proceeds to compress his core beyond its limit to cause the protons and electrons to merge, therefore self destruct. There’s no evidence here that implies the amount of force he has to put his core under is equivalent to the limit. Your argument is based on pure speculation, not logic.

“It has to yield the same energy output and gravitational collapse in order to be comparable in the first place.”
No, no it does not. One I don’t know what “yielding the same gravitational collapse” means, but if you are implying that it must also collapse due to high gravitational forces you are correct. But the first part is what’s wrong, it does not have to have the same energy values to mimic the process. When imitating the process you just have to have the same steps, which in this case is crushing the object under so much force it creates nuclear fission.

“What's shown in the panel clearly proves. What else would it be then?”
You can’t just say “my evidence is that it’s clearly proven” that would be begging the question. I have said “what else would it be” numerous times but I’ll say it again. It could just be on the screen because they were researching the process behind a stellar collapse, thereby naturally coming across said limit anyway. Hell they may have even used it in coordination with the Schwarzchild radius to figure out how much Welt has to compress his core to cause it to explode. Point is, there’s many other reasons the limit was on the screen, and so you cannot take your interpretation as valid.

“I see no contextual relevancy to debunking this feat then.”
What even is this refutation? Are you just not understanding? Welt would never put the earth at risk like that. So why the hell would we assume he did? If his plan succeeded and he killed Sirin he would’ve ended up nuking the planet. Someone who repeatedly defends and protects humanity wouldn’t do that, so it’s not likely that your interpretation is correct. Let’s use an analogy: Jack loves his car a lot. This morning we find his car keyed. Jack is in a special realm where only he and his friend John could’ve keyed the car. Due to the fact Jack loves his car, it’s not likely he could’ve keyed it. In this case the planet is the car and Jack is Welt. Welt would never put the planet at risk of destruction so he would never compress his core enough to create an actual stellar explosion, thereby invalidating the interpretation that he did.

 

[inkownn]

Your interpretation doesn't work in this case, Welt didn't say that he would just compress the core to generate an explosion, he said directly that he would do the same stellar explosion process, in case you don't know, supernova (really big explosions) are generated by the same process, the collapse of a star. Something you can see right here on the wiki. You're practically arguing that in reality, the collapse of stars into explosions have no effect, that it is just a process and there is no energy involved.

You are still making the assumption that “imitating the process of a star collapse” also imitates the energy values. I’m not arguing they have no effect at all, I’m arguing that the process in which to collapse a star (compressing it beyond its limit to cause an explosion) has varying effects depending on the properties of the object that is being compressed. Stars don’t all need the same energy values to cause their collapse, but they still all run under the same process. The same applies here, Welt is copying the idea around how stars collapse, not the energy values. It wouldn’t even make sense to assume it’s talking about the energy values as, again, stars don’t all explode under the same degrees of force. Also, Welt lowkey supports my claim here. Right after saying he will simulate the process behind a stellar collapse he says, “compresses the Honkai energy in the Herrscher core to the limit, causing the core's physical structure to collapse”, implying that the imitation of the process behind a stellar collapse consists of compressing the object to its limit, not the limit that stars fall under.

“You should read the OP again because I said that in the context it was possible to use the limit. Welt gave us the context of this panel by telling us that this is what he was going to do. Welt saying that he was going to cause the stellar collapse process and the panel is saying the same thing. Not everything has to be spoonfeed to you, the context here makes it clear.”
Welt did not give context to use of the limit in this scenario. You simply interpreted it as such to fit the agenda here. I have already shown other interpretations involving the reason the limit is on the dashboard. And so unless you can provide a direct correlation between the limit and the force he has to put his core under your argument would be purely based on what you want to be true. I agree things don’t have to be “spoonfed” but this just doesn’t have nearly enough evidence backing it.

“This depends on ignoring the mechanism of Honkai energy, we have been told and shown that Honkai energy can be concentrated and restricted to the smallest possible space, something like an energy beam for example, Welt is able to restrict the AOE of that explosion since it was literally said that the explosion was just Honkai energy”
This would be fine if Welt doesn’t literally die to make this attack happen. I agree amounts of energy can be condensed, but Welt is dead the moment his core would have exploded, he has no time to reduce the attack radius.

 

[Vietthai96]

I'm gonna be real here, simulating a star collapse =/= making actual star collapse

He just simulate how a stap collapse via gravity

 

[Solacis]

Lot of assumptions being thrown into this. Let me break down just how wrong this conclusion is.

The Chandrasekhar Limit being mentioned is not indicative of the Core itself being a white dwarf. The fact that said Core is not a stellar mass by itself invalidates this, because the Chandrasekhar Limit explicitly refers to the mechanics of an actual star: being the relationship between its electron-degeneracy pressure resisting its own gravitational collapse caused by its mass.

Star is big. Star has big gravity. If Star is so big, why star no crush itself into a runaway nuclear boom? Because of electron-degeneracy pressure resisting the gravitational pull. Chandrasekhar calculated that the size of a star (specifically a White Dwarf, because bigger stars have different resisting forces) required to overcome this resisting pressure is 1.4 solar masses, thus the Chandrasekhar Limit.

With this factual definition in mind, the only relation between what Welt did with his Core and that of a White Dwarf is that Welt is just borrowing the principle of "compressing a mass with gravity until nuclear fusion occurs". Transforming mass into energy (how Welt described the Core's destruction) is the biggest part of how nuclear fission and fusion is calculated according to the mass-equivalence formula (E = mc^2).

It's a nuke using his Core's mass as the fuel. It's just a standard mass-energy conversion feat. We already have a wiki standard for calculating that (the aforementioned mass-equivalence formula), and to no surprise, it yields far far less than 4-C.

Next time, please do research on the scientific principles you use to support a CRT before trying to do so. All this just shows how little thought actually went into this proposal. Goes to show what happens when you rush changes.

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

After seeing the arguments of others, I’d like to withdraw back my vote for now,

 

[GarrixianXD]

I'm gonna be real here, simulating a star collapse =/= making actual star collapse

He just simulate how a stap collapse via gravity

The term 模拟 can mean "imitate" as a verb. It isn't necessarily virtually stimulating. The feat shown here is Welt compressing the herrscher core, not a white dwarf. And it was stated the process is alike and imitate that of a star collapse. Perhaps I should've pointed out this translation error, but eh, I overlooked but the context doesn't change nonetheless.

Lot of assumptions being thrown into this. Let me break down just how wrong this conclusion is.

I like how you allege that assumptions are being made, yet your arguments don't have anything to do with the main point of the CRT.

The Chandrasekhar Limit being mentioned is not indicative of the Core itself being a white dwarf. The fact that said Core is not a stellar mass by itself invalidates this,

When was this ever stated? Where are your scans?

because the Chandrasekhar Limit explicitly refers to the mechanics of an actual star: being the relationship between its electron-degeneracy pressure resisting its own gravitational collapse caused by its mass.

The Chandrasekhar Limit is a property of a White Dwarf which is the mass limit a White Dwarf can withstand before collapsing into a neutron star. Being shown to share properties is enough to prove.

Star is big. Star has big gravity. If Star is so big, why star no crush itself into a runaway nuclear boom? Because of electron-degeneracy pressure resisting the gravitational pull. Chandrasekhar calculated that the size of a star (specifically a White Dwarf, because bigger stars have different resisting forces) required to overcome this resisting pressure is 1.4 solar masses, thus the Chandrasekhar Limit.

This is true. But it does not disapprove anything regarding this CRT.

With this factual definition in mind, the only relation between what Welt did with his Core and that of a White Dwarf is that Welt is just borrowing the principle of "compressing a mass with gravity until nuclear fusion occurs". Transforming mass into energy (how Welt described the Core's destruction) is the biggest part of how nuclear fission and fusion is calculated according to the mass-equivalence formula (E = mc^2).

Ditto.

It's a nuke using his Core's mass as the fuel. It's just a standard mass-energy conversion feat. We already have a wiki standard for calculating that (the aforementioned mass-equivalence formula), and to no surprise, it yields far far less than 4-C.

Using 1.4M directly derives 4-C. How about you refer back to your assumption that Herrscher Core doesn't have solar mass?

Next time, please do research on the scientific principles you use to support a CRT before trying to do so. All this just shows how little thought actually went into this proposal. Goes to show what happens when you rush changes.

Perhaps you should stop belittling our intelligence and acting antagonistic toward other people. Try and keep your superiority complex down; it doesn't help you and everyone has access to Google search.

 

[inkownn]

When Sola said, “not a stellar mass” I believe they meant that is it not a star. But you actually caused me to remember another good point that supports the argument it’s not the mass of a white dwarf.
Something that small holding the ludicrous amount of mass that is a star would literally instantaneously collapse into a black hole according to general relativity. You can’t just use physics when it supports you and disregard it immediately when it contradicts.
Also pretty sure regular ass dudes hold herrscher cores.

 

[GarrixianXD]

When Sola said, “not a stellar mass” I believe they meant that is it not a star. But you actually caused me to remember another good point that supports the argument it’s not the mass of a white dwarf.

It is not a star, that's correct. But it shares properties, hence it can contain solar mass.

Something that small holding the ludicrous amount of mass that is a star would literally instantaneously collapse into a black hole according to general relativity. You can’t just use physics when it supports you and disregard it immediately when it contradicts.

It did say it'll transform into pure Honkai energy at the end of the process. Mass transforms into a black hole, which has high entropy and I'm pretty sure Honkai Energy correlates to entropy. It's not like black holes can't explode. Thus, we never seen Welt performing it as a feat.

Also pretty sure regular ass dudes hold herrscher cores.

Since when was this ever a thing? Provide your scans.

 

[inkownn]

It is not a star, that's correct. But it shares properties, hence it can contain solar mass.

What are these said, “shared properties”?

“It did say it'll transform into pure Honkai energy. Mass transform into a black hole, which has high entropy and I'm pretty sure Honkai Energy correlates to entropy. It's not like black holes can't explode. Thus, we never seen Welt performing it as a feat.”
This is completely irrelevant. My point is that the core would've literally collapse into a black hole the moment it came into existence.
“Since when was this ever a thing? Provide your scans.”
If you say so. First the concept of divine keys in the first place prove this, as they are literally regular ass humans using herrscher cores and making them into weapons for other humans to use. This is shown further in how regular ass human known as Dr Mei puts on a divine keys and holds herrscher cores without any effort. We also have the Arigato Mech and BASE BRONYA holding them.

 

[GarrixianXD]

This is completely irrelevant. My point is that the core would've literally collapse into a black hole the moment it came into existence.

And Herrscher cores themselves aren't even ordinary masses. Not sure why you're treating it like it's like a quartz crystal.

If you say so. First the concept of divine keys in the first place prove this, as they are literally regular ass humans using herrscher cores and making them into weapons for other humans to use. This is shown further in how regular ass human known as Dr Mei puts on a divine keys and holds herrscher cores without any effort. We also have the Arigato Mech and BASE BRONYA holding them.

They are not "regular ass dudes". And this is irrelevant.

 

[inkownn]

And Herrscher cores themselves aren't even ordinary masses. Not sure why you're treating it like it's like a quartz crystal.

They are not "regular ass dudes". And this is irrelevant.

You were the one who claimed they are stellar masses. What do you mean by them not being “ordinary masses” and how does that correlate to breaking laws of general relativity.
Dr Mei isn’t a regular ass dude? She’s literally just a doctor. No powers, no metamorphosis, no honkai manipulation, just regular doctor. And it is relevant. If a regular doctor is holding these supposedly “stellar masses” they probably aren’t stellar masses.

 

[GarrixianXD]

You were the one who claimed they are stellar masses. What do you mean by them not being “ordinary masses” and how does that correlate to breaking laws of general relativity.

Why do I need to prove that it breaks the laws of general relativity? Ordinary mass does not grant you powers to destroy space-time and shit obviously; we've seen Kevin create a black hole out of herrscher energy anyways.

Dr Mei isn’t a regular ass dude? She’s literally just a doctor. No powers, no metamorphosis, no honkai manipulation, just regular doctor. And it is relevant. If a regular doctor is holding these supposedly “stellar masses” they probably aren’t stellar masses.

It hasn't been shown that she was holding it. And no, she has creation powers hence she was able to create weapons and all that.

 

[inkownn]

Why do I need to prove that it breaks the laws of general relativity? Ordinary mass does not grant you powers to destroy space-time and shit obviously; we've seen Kevin create a black hole out of herrscher energy anyways.

This is so so wtf. Giving the powers to manipulate space time is a byproduct of the herrscher authority, not the mass. This is like saying Naruto doesn’t have regular mass because he can make a Rasengan. Making a black hole out of herrscher energy doesn’t mean anything here. I’m not sure why you are dodging the point here. If the core was truly a stellar mass it would instantly turn into a black hole and destroy the planet. You need to prove it breaks general laws of relativity because otherwise my prior sentence would be valid which would then render your interpretation invalid as this obviously didn’t happen in honkai.


“It hasn't been shown that she was holding it.”
Except it has? I literally sent a scan.


“And no, she has creation powers hence she was able to create weapons and all that.”
Creation powers?! This is the equivalent of saying the Wright Brothers have creation powers because they created airplanes. It was never once stated she had creation powers, she just invented stuff.

”With all due respect, this isn't relevant to the CRT.”
If you don’t think this is relevant then you don’t understand the CRT. Unless the core has the mass of a white dwarf star and the size of a white dwarf star it would not require a mass of 1.4 solar masses to denote. Not only does it not have the size, but we also know for a fact it doesn’t have the mass as Dr Mei here holds the cores just fine. On top of that if it DID have the mass, its small size would cause it to instantly collapse into a black hole. So essentially now instead of 3 issues with the argument there are 5.

1. If it truly needed 1.4 solar masses to detonate, it would need the size and mass of a white dwarf star. It clearly doesn’t have the size or mass.

2. Even if it did have the mass, it would instantly collapse into a black hole which didn’t happen so it’s not likely.

3. Imitating a process doesn’t mean copying its energy yields

4. The Chandrasekhar limit being shown in the panel doesn’t mean it’s what Welt needs to compress his core to.

5. If Welt had compressed his core by that much he would’ve create a supernova that ends the planet, which is something that he’d never do so it’s not likely that interpretation is correct.

 

[Vietthai96]

If you don’t think this is relevant then you don’t understand the CRT. Unless the core has the mass of a white dwarf star and the size of a white dwarf star it would not require a mass of 1.4 solar masses to denote. Not only does it not have the size, but we also know for a fact it doesn’t have the mass as Dr Mei here holds the cores just fine. On top of that if it DID have the mass, its small size would cause it to instantly collapse into a black hole. So essentially now instead of 3 issues with the argument there are 5

Now that you mentioned it, i literally argued the similar thing back then in the past with avengershow on discord about Sirin holding the Reason core and snapped it, if it have 1.4 solar mass then sirin must have enough lifting strength to crush it, yet in the next chapter the same Sirin who capable of crushing a 1.4 solar mass herrscher core was unable to push back a nuclear warhead that went straight down to her head, she failed to push it back up with two hand and struggling, but people disagree with me

 

[inkownn]

Now that you mentioned it, i literally argued the similar thing back then in the past with avengershow on discord about Sirin holding the Reason core and snapped it, if it have 1.4 solar mass then sirin must have enough lifting strength to crush it, yet in the next chapter the same Sirin who capable of crushing a 1.4 solar mass herrscher core was unable to push back a nuclear warhead that went straight down to her head, she failed to push it back up with two hand and struggling, but people disagree with me

Didn’t she just teleport the warhead?

 

[Vietthai96]

Didn’t she just teleport the warhead?

Iirc she try to push it back for a while, her facial expression seem like she struggling before she teleport it, but well, my memories could be bad

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

Iirc she try to push it back for a while, her facial expression seem like she struggling before she teleport it, but well, my memories could be bad

Nah she was only tried to teleport it, she didn’t necessarily struggle, but it took all her power to teleport it to the ground. not sure if why it took so much power
is cause of the volume or the weight though

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

I would like to add to this discussion. Currently the premise of this crt relies on Welt's core of reason possessing Star level energy or a mass of 1.4M
However in the Durandal VN, 1/10th of the power of the Reason/Void cores is incapable of creating a normal earth sized planet (Its far smaller). Rather that bubble universe grew slowly overtime from other bubbles, including even continents had to form over time. However if the core of reason had tier 4 energy or 1.4 Solar Masses even 1/10th of the energy would've accomplished such instantly

 

[Shiroiyo]

I would like to add to this discussion. Currently the premise of this crt relies on Welt's core of reason possessing Star level energy or a mass of 1.4M
However in the Durandal VN, 1/10th of the power of the Reason/Void cores is incapable of creating a normal earth sized planet (Its far smaller). Rather that bubble universe grew slowly overtime from other bubbles, including even continents had to form over time. However if the core of reason had tier 4 energy or 1.4 Solar Masses even 1/10th of the energy would've accomplished such instantly

This microcosm is a solar system in size, since it was a copy of their world, IE the star system, in addition to the visuals of the bubble showing cosmic/solar system visuals.

We are also told that later Herrschers would be able to manipulate far higher than that anyway.

 

[inkownn]

It hasn't been shown that she was holding it. And no, she has creation powers hence she was able to create weapons and all that.

For more consistency, Kiana turned into a normal girl and having no powers at all was also able to hold a herrscher core with minimal difficulty. I think it’s safe to say that this crt cannot use the argument that the core has a mass of a star. You could argue it has the energy of a star, but that’s also being thrown into contention right now.

 

[Lynieryz]

For more consistency, Kiana turned into a normal girl and having no powers at all was also able to hold a herrscher core with minimal difficulty. I think it’s safe to say that this crt cannot use the argument that the core has a mass of a star. You could argue it has the energy of a star, but that’s also being thrown into contention right now.

No, the Serum nullified her Honkai powers but that doesn't change that she was specifically biologically made to be compatible with a herrscher core.

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

This microcosm is a solar system in size, since it was a copy of their world, IE the star system, in addition to the visuals of the bubble showing cosmic/solar system visuals.

We are also told that later Herrschers would be able to manipulate far higher than that anyway.

I disagree
Cause it’s stated that the world is not a solar system and that it only looks like a normal universe. But simply an “atlas”. Aka a planet, that happens to be smaller than earth. It’s not the same as the star systems of HSR or Earths star system.

An earth where the continent of Europe somehow makes up one fifth of the “world” they do not say planet, unless you wanna say a continent can be 1/5th of a solar system (And Europe is our second smallest continent irl, it does not come close to being a 1/5th of irl earths surface area)

The Otto statement shows also that the projection isn't what Durandal had stored nor is it what was created by that energy equivalent to 1/10th of the core of reason. Especially when again the continents had to grow overtime, in fact even mere Pyramids, so why is it suddenly now a solar system instantly? Or how the starry sky is just a "veil" or covering, not actually there. Especially when the bubble is often called a Manifold and not a Projection. With Projections in their entirety just being a way to say "Mutually connected bubble worlds that had experienced material exchange"

 

[inkownn]

No, the Serum nullified her Honkai powers but that doesn't change that she was specifically biologically made to be compatible with a herrscher core.

Biologically compatible in the sense that she doesn’t get killed by the honkai cascade due to the her body accepting the core. The doctor the entire time was more concerned with her being affected by the honkai radiation rather than, you know, being crushed under the ridiculous mass that is a star. You could try to argue, “That’s because the radiation will kill her too” but that wouldn’t be relevant here as we could see her hold the core for a few panels and the doctor is still concerned with the radiation. If the core had stellar mass then the danger of being crushed would come into effect immediately, but he doesn’t mention it at all. Also he asks her to “toss it”. According to you he asked Kiana to just throw an object of stellar weight on the cold hard floor. Even if we don’t account for the velocity Kiana threw it at and just use the gravity constant the energy it would produce is still ludicrous and would be far deadlier than a nuke. It would end up killing both Kiana and the doctor anyway.
These cores are constantly portrayed to be able to be held with minimal difficulty by anyone, the most dangerous part being the honkai radiation coming from it and not its stellar weight. Dr. Mei holds them, many people hold divine keys, and Kiana with no powers holds them here.

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

No, the Serum nullified her Honkai powers but that doesn't change that she was specifically biologically made to be compatible with a herrscher core.

But why would that make the core any lighter in regards to mass?

 

[Shiroiyo]

Before anything gets done. I am going to make one last reply to all this, because I have already seen a few things wrong, so I will just wait for the translations to be checked before I make this comment.

 

[Vietthai96]

again, i was right with the decision to stop Honkai scaling, the verse is bad when it come to this

if the core is truly 1.4 solar mass, it would have crushed Earth long ago, and no don't slap me with shit like: it is because fiction is weird, cause the verse used so many irl scientific stuffs especially general relativity from a gender-bended Einstein to boost

 

[GarrixianXD]

again, i was right with the decision to stop Honkai scaling, the verse is bad when it come to this

Everything could’ve been good yk… It really just comes down to the supporters and how they chose to handle the verse.