• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Honkai Star Rail Upgrades :Argenti 4-A feat is real

Status
Not open for further replies.
Avengershows said:
Yet your immediate reaction to a nerf being prepared is to say "why not just delete the verse".
The profiles were absolutely not in such an unrecoverable state, they could've easily been fixed. It takes more effort to remake the profiles than to just fix the links and change around a bit of the text.
Click to expand...
Any further HI3 discussion should be taken to a General discussion thread or something or a discord. For now this is not relevant imo
 
Avengershows said:
Scans?
Click to expand...
Literally common sense. You need energy to digest food; I’d advice you to delve back to the introduction of physics before dwelling upon intermediate areas.
Avengershows said:
Yet your immediate reaction to a nerf being prepared is to say "why not just delete the verse".
The profiles were absolutely not in such an unrecoverable state, they could've easily been fixed. It takes more effort to remake the profiles than to just fix the links and change around a bit of the text.
Click to expand...
They were deleted for a reason. Enough said and enough with this topic.
 
GarrixianXD said:
Literally common sense. You need energy to digest food; I’d advice you to delve back to the introduction of physics before dwelling upon intermediate areas.

They were deleted for a reason. Enough said and enough with this topic.
Click to expand...
If it's common sense then show it. Show me where it was swallowed in a matter of seconds and prove that it's the same as an explosion in terms of energy.
And then, please prove that Argentis attack is in any way shape or form equal to the energy produced by that explosion.
Please **** off with your backhanded ass comments when you yourself don't know what you're talking about.
 
Avengershows said:
If it's common sense then show it. Show me where it was swallowed in a matter of seconds and prove that it's the same as an explosion in terms of energy.
And then, please prove that Argentis attack is in any way shape or form equal to the energy produced by that explosion.
Please **** off with your backhanded ass comments when you yourself don't know what you're talking about.
Click to expand...
Rewatch the fuсking clip when The Sting begun swallowing, lol. Obviously Argenti has to hurt it in-order to scale to it.
 
Enryu_The_Red_Tower said:
Unless you really believes that a High 6-A/4-C character with a piercing/cutting attack can hurt a 4-A character
Click to expand...
Yes, they can.
An ant can break skin, a mosquito (which you can literally accidentally kill by grazing it too hard with your hand), etc. can all pierce human skin and humans are many, MANY times stronger.
I already explained the math once, and in this thread again.
It's best to wait for staff input.
 
Didn't think it was possible to drag me out of my vacation, but here I am I guess. I'm just gonna hash this out real quick, starting with the easy one.

1. Ignoring Honkai 3rd feats is stupid.

Whoever asked to delete the Honkai 3rd profiles is either hopelessly clueless or actively malicious. Those profiles were perfectly fine (I should know, I made practically all of them personally) and there were people working on revising the verse. Whoever is then claiming that Honkai 3rd is suddenly invalid purely because those pages are no longer around, despite it being explicit where Welt came from, is even worse. The removal of a page is not the same as the removal of a feat. For as long as the source calc on the speed Welt scales to is considered valid, it cannot be removed from his profile.

And now to the main event...

2. A piercing attack affecting something of a higher tier only contributes to a higher rating.

Which is to say, it does NOT provide enough evidence to be a standalone proof of a higher rating. Unless Argenti displayed similar feats of clearly and notably damaging a 4-A character, then piercing the Giant Sting's stomach is an outlier and nothing more. The fights against Emanators don't count for much, because as I've brought up before, there are no 4-A Emanator feats. The two biggest feats in HSR right now are Zephyro destroying a star system and Dominicus trapping all of Asdana in a dream, neither of which give 4-A for reasons I assume everyone is already aware of.

Just because sharp objects are not considered durability negation, from an objective physics standpoint, a human-sized spear piercing the stomach of a monster large enough to hold a starry sky in said stomach is the equivalent of a needle piercing through a sandcastle on planet Earth. If anything, it can be argued that the spear would realistically do less relative damage; if it weren't for said attack causing spasms in the monster's body. The only reason VSBW doesn't calc force over surface area in the context of blades and needles is - to greatly oversimplify - because it's a hassle to keep track of and inconsistently portrayed across media. Yet even so, there's a reason environmental destruction is not considered in the same vein as raw kinetic energy: just because a storm totals to a certain amount of energy doesn't mean the part of the storm actually hitting its targets has all of that energy being applied directly. This applies both ways.

This isn't even getting into how "direct attacks on internal organs" are considered a valid form of durability negation. Dozens of characters have abilities that control blood or manifest effects inside their targets and those are considered durability negation even when said characters use them on opponents relative to their normal tier. Argenti piercing through the Giant Sting's stomach would be considered in the same vein even if he was already 4-A, which he currently isn't.

So no, Argenti does not scale to 4-A nor does anyone else.
 
Solacis said:
2. A piercing attack affecting something of a higher tier only contributes to a higher rating.

Which is to say, it does NOT provide enough evidence to be a standalone proof of a higher rating. Unless Argenti displayed similar feats of clearly and notably damaging a 4-A character, then piercing the Giant Sting's stomach is an outlier and nothing more. The fights against Emanators don't count for much, because as I've brought up before, there are no 4-A Emanator feats. The two biggest feats in HSR right now are Zephyro destroying a star system and Dominicus trapping all of Asdana in a dream, neither of which give 4-A for reasons I assume everyone is already aware of.
Click to expand...
This is why i brought Traiblazer wistanding the same piercing attacks by Argenti as the part of the 4-A feat of hsr,and i already explained why in the crt,as for other feats of hsr Zephyro is afaik calced at 4-B? there is also someone making an explosion capable of destroying 24 planets at once..and trapping entire asdana is more of a range feat since he can put entire star system in a dream (my opinion tho)
Solacis said:
Just because sharp objects are not considered durability negation, from an objective physics standpoint, a human-sized spear piercing the stomach of a monster large enough to hold a starry sky in said stomach is the equivalent of a needle piercing through a sandcastle on planet Earth. If anything, it can be argued that the spear would realistically do less relative damage; if it weren't for said attack causing spasms in the monster's body. The only reason VSBW doesn't calc force over surface area in the context of blades and needles is - to greatly oversimplify - because it's a hassle to keep track of and inconsistently portrayed across media. Yet even so, there's a reason environmental destruction is not considered in the same vein as raw kinetic energy: just because a storm totals to a certain amount of energy doesn't mean the part of the storm actually hitting its targets has all of that energy being applied directly. This applies both ways.
Click to expand...
i half understand half dont understand what you said here..maybe a little simpler explanation or some example can help
Solacis said:
This isn't even getting into how "direct attacks on internal organs" are considered a valid form of durability negation. Dozens of characters have abilities that control blood or manifest effects inside their targets and those are considered durability negation even when said characters use them on opponents relative to their normal tier. Argenti piercing through the Giant Sting's stomach would be considered in the same vein even if he was already 4-A, which he currently isn't.

So no, Argenti does not scale to 4-A nor does anyone else.
Click to expand...
Idk whats the argument here honestly...we are talking abt simple feat of piercing damage made on the Sting and the characters being able to witsstand his attacks,,, idk what can blood manip do here or whatever you tried to say
also i didnt expect to see someone who was gone for 4 month here
 
Woomica said:
This is why i brought Traiblazer wistanding the same piercing attacks by Argenti as the part of the 4-A feat of hsr,and i already explained why in the crt,as for other feats of hsr Zephyro is afaik calced at 4-B? there is also someone making an explosion capable of destroying 24 planets at once..and trapping entire asdana is more of a range feat since he can put entire star system in a dream (my opinion tho)
Click to expand...
How does Trailblazer withstanding the same attack make it 4-A?
 
Avengershows said:
How does Trailblazer withstanding the same attack make it 4-A?
Click to expand...
by not getting pierced? you know withstanding piercing attacks works as durability fyi,by logic if someone is able to witshtand a piercing attack that 4-A being (Giant Sting) couldnt it would completely upscale the Durability of the latter tanking the attack (unless another standard exists that only wokrs here nowhere else)
 
Woomica said:
This is why i brought Traiblazer wistanding the same piercing attacks by Argenti as the part of the 4-A feat of hsr,and i already explained why in the crt,as for other feats of hsr Zephyro is afaik calced at 4-B? there is also someone making an explosion capable of destroying 24 planets at once..and trapping entire asdana is more of a range feat since he can put entire star system in a dream (my opinion tho)
Click to expand...
Zephyro only scales to at best causing planetary storms to ravage a planet (see: Xianzhou's records of his feats). Even his supernova feat was specifically worded as him triggering one in the planet's home star, not creating one from nothing. At best, Ravagers can be Star level via scaling to Phantylia or that one other Ravager that destroyed a chain of stars over an (afaik unspecified) timeframe.

Nobody scales to the Imaginary Implosion Pulse. Why would you think anyone scaled to it?

Woomica said:
i half understand half dont understand what you said here..maybe a little simpler explanation or some example can help
Click to expand...
Sharp thing hurt very big thing don't make sharp thing hit as hard as very big thing because very big thing can crush whoever is holding sharp thing very easily because of how big and strong they are.

Woomica said:
Idk whats the argument here honestly...we are talking abt simple feat of piercing damage made on the Sting and the characters being able to witsstand his attacks,,, idk what can blood manip do here or whatever you tried to say
Click to expand...
I don't know how to make it any simpler than that, but if you honestly don't understand these concepts, then for your own sake, I don't recommend you go around making CRTs. This is really quite basic powerscaling/wiki knowhow. There are pages on the wiki dedicated to explaining these things. I recommend reading up on the calc rules in particular and the page on durability negation in particular.

Woomica said:
also i didnt expect to see someone who was gone for 4 month here
Click to expand...
And what a pleasant return it's been...
 
Solacis said:
Zephyro only scales to at best causing planetary storms to ravage a planet (see: Xianzhou's records of his feats). Even his supernova feat was specifically worded as him triggering one in the planet's home star, not creating one from nothing. At best, Ravagers can be Star level via scaling to Phantylia or that one other Ravager that destroyed a chain of stars over an (afaik unspecified) timeframe.
Click to expand...
characters in this wiki already scale to dan heng 4-C for beating star swallowing monster and phantylia scales to that too and having Far higher with some emanator feats as justification so you are right there.
Solacis said:
Nobody scales to the Imaginary Implosion Pulse. Why would you think anyone scaled to it?
Click to expand...
never said anyone scales to it lol i just said there are some feats of that level.
Solacis said:
Sharp thing hurt very big thing don't make sharp thing hit as hard as very big thing because very big thing can crush whoever is holding sharp thing very easily because of how big and strong they are.
Click to expand...
(y)
Solacis said:
I don't know how to make it any simpler than that, but if you honestly don't understand these concepts, then for your own sake, I don't recommend you go around making CRTs. This is really quite basic powerscaling/wiki knowhow. There are pages on the wiki dedicated to explaining these things. I recommend reading up on the calc rules in particular and the page on durability negation in particular.
Click to expand...
will do
 
Woomica said:
by not getting pierced? you know withstanding piercing attacks works as durability fyi,by logic if someone is able to witshtand a piercing attack that 4-A being (Giant Sting) couldnt it would completely upscale the Durability of the latter tanking the attack (unless another standard exists that only wokrs here nowhere else)
Click to expand...
Putting aside this mess of circular reasoning.
The Giant Sting calculation still isn't good anyway. It still assumes the entirety of the Stings intestines exploded which is not how it happened and not how it works
 
So, in regards the speed, why not just make characters from Xianzhou Luofu Arc onwards scales to Seele's speed then? This won't solve the problem?
 
Enryu_The_Red_Tower said:
So, in regards the speed, why not just make characters from Xianzhou Luofu Arc onwards scales to Seele's speed then? This won't solve the problem?
Click to expand...
I disagree, Seele's calc comes from Blitzing Bronya's rifle, which Bronya used to fight the Express Trio when they first arrived in Jarilo. If they scale to the calc, then the whole feat is circular. Plus Seele snails Bronya twice (When the vagrants shot at Bronya and in the Seele Trailer). Plus Seele has no speed scaling with the casts of other worlds because of that. Maybe look for other speed feats if possible. I think Aventurine reacted to Orbital canon in Penacony. Phantylia's calc has her attack speed at Sub-Rel which could be good. But only applies to Xianzhou high tiers and onwards.
Click to expand...
this is what jack said about the speed issue and staff agreed
 
Solacis said:
snip
Click to expand...
On the topic of HI3rd feats: Speed is coming back to relativistic/FTL for Welt, and his profile should probably be split into 2 keys. HoR Welt and HSR Welt. HoR scales to 4-A from being a Herrscher (even if an "incomplete"/not fully realized one). That COULD support the 4-A tirering here, unless we downgrade the second key to current HSR
 
SchroKatze said:
On the topic of HI3rd feats: Speed is coming back to relativistic/FTL for Welt, and his profile should probably be split into 2 keys. HoR Welt and HSR Welt. HoR scales to 4-A from being a Herrscher (even if an "incomplete"/not fully realized one). That COULD support the 4-A tirering here, unless we downgrade the second key to current HSR
Click to expand...
I'm pretty sure we're also downgrading HI3's 4-A.
 
okay i have put the strike-trough on speed scaling since the entire drama of hi3 profiles is gone i wont focus on speed scaling of hsr and hi3 now i will leave that for another crt.
Ill keep the focus on the entire scaling part and wait for staff input
 
IMG_2877.png

I disagree cause cause the goat RATH thinks this verse looks silly




Neutral for now
 
Emirp sumitpo said:
I'm pretty sure we're also downgrading HI3's 4-A.
Click to expand...
Discuss this in another thread.

@Solacis You have provided zero evidence for your arguments. Hasty generalisation — end of the story.
 
Last edited:
Awesome.

@DarkDragonMedeus May I ask do you still approve of this CRT for the 4-A rating based on Elizhaa's calculation?

I heard you said something about the inverse square law but we currently don't have a calculation for it; I'll make one when I get the chance but I hope it won't disrupt this from passing.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Woomica
  • Locked
HSR Scaling update
Replies
33
Views
3K
Reiner04
Reiner04
Enryu_The_Red_Tower
Honkai: Star Rail High 1-C Update
Replies
29
Views
2K
SODAKU
SODAKU
Aernasilver
HSR Small Revisions
Replies
7
Views
1K
LephyrTheRevanchist
LephyrTheRevanchist
Enryu_The_Red_Tower
  • Locked
Honkai: Star Rail Lifting Strength upgrade
Replies
10
Views
1K
Dereck03
Dereck03
Enryu_The_Red_Tower
  • Locked
Honkai: Star Rail Downgrade
Replies
13
Views
3K
Dereck03
Dereck03
Back
Top