• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Rakudai and Ikki CRT

Conceptual manip is and exotic ability you know, you cant just think its concepts manip without scan and context, i watch Rakudai and i didnt find any Conceptual manip is especially Conceptual manip of wound, if i use your logic i can apply all character in tensei have concepts manip since magic is an idea, example to get a magic sword you need the idea of Destruction and slash, but we don't give em concepts manip since it doesnt makes any sense if everyone have it, i m not disagree just ask scan and context regarding this
 
It's not from the anime it's explained in the novels. There's literally no mention of conceptual magic in the anime. I can get some context later.
 
The problem is, that example of yours is not conceptual manip at all. Cus they may need those 2 concepts, but they do not control them or use them. In rakudai a users can actually use the concepts, they don't get it cus "magic is an idea". But ok here are some scans?

Ayase Ayatsuji you said you watched the anime, but what did you think the slashes in air were? From the way Hizume is being summoned, to the wounds in space. Her ability is to reopen any "wound" she leaves but a wound is literally a slash, as long as there was a slash somewhere the idea applies, and as you can see, even wounds in space are possible.

Sara Bloodlily there is this statement in the series "she can control any concept she draws" when they were explaining her ability.

Even Kuraudo was confused by this. He surely extended Orochimaru straight forward. Such strange behavior should not have occurred. So why did the trajectory change…!?

But Kuraudo instantly realized the answer. Upon closer look at the ground where Orochimaru was stuck, a bulls-eye target had been drawn there.

So it was pulled into the target…!?

Via the concept of "target" and "aim", Orochimaru had been forced to shift its mark. It was the same as with a gun. In other words…

This girl is definitely… not just using colors! She can manipulate any concept she draws…!

Illusions that paint over reality. That kind of artistry was not unlike divine creation. Demiurge's—a false god's brush. Wasn't it a very appropriate name?

Stella is just conceptual embodiment, whereas Byakuya can teleport people by manipulating placement.
 
Why are you asking me for? I mean ikki can see with his ears, pretty sure drawing a concept is easy enough at this point
 
Well she more like "applies concepts to anything she draws". Read above, she drew a target and applied the concept of "target" on it (so no matter what all attacks would have that thing as the target even if they were trying to aim for Sara), she applies colors (applies puddle if she uses blue, steel if gray etc).
 
So i think its concepts type 4? But still open wound in the space doesnt give you concepts manip, do you have another scan?
 
Isn't it type 3? Im not sure, but i believe most forms of low scale conceptual manip are type 3, type 4 being really specific. Imma wait for someone knowledgeable here.
 
I agree with the above sans the 7-A. I won't agree with it until more calc group agree with it.

As for the concept manip, I believe it is type 3. The concept of placement is one that governs all of reality, thus manipulating it would be a type 3 concept.
 
I don't like giving arbitrary numbers to multipliers, but I guess anything like 3 or higher should be a decent lowball. Also why would many be more than several? They're almost interchangable in interpretation.
 
Sir Ovens said:
I don't like giving arbitrary numbers to multipliers, but I guess anything like 3 or higher should be a decent lowball. Also why would many be more than several? They're almost interchangable in interpretation.
Click to expand...
It's actually 4 or higher from what i was told but "many" is more than "several" by sheer definition. Dictionary definition says "several can mean anywhere from 4 or more but less than many, whereas many is more than several, but can go anywhere from 5 being the absolute lowest to 6 and 7 being most likely, 8 and 9 being the maximum if we're talking about a set of 10 numbers".
 
1. That's from the TL, not the original Japanese, right? So if anything look into the original and use the dictionary meaning for that word, because...

2. I highly doubt the translator looked at the dictionary meaning and I also highly doubt the author did either, so assuming sth like 6 o 7 seems fairly high and I think we should keep it the lowest (reasonable) number possible, unless implied otherwise.
 
1. That's a lost cause, originals for Rakudai will be impossible to find, we tried.

2. 6 is really not that high. But idm using the lowballs i posted with 48x and 500x. I just put the 5 and 6 as very likely interpretations, idm whichever is chosen. And it's really not that "dictionary level" meaning. It's common sense if you invite 10 people into a party and say "many of them came" you don't mean 3 do you? You mean at absolute worst 5 (a possibility but a very unlikely one, but still acceptable as a lowball), but most likely 6 or 7 to mean at least more than half of them.

Also it really is not that big of a deal. It may change the tier from like low end to mid end at most or sth like that, it won't make a tier jump or anything that significant, so i don't mind either way. The pont is, don't sweat that part too much, it's not all that important, it's just something that needs to be decided.
 
OrangeberrySama said:
Ikki in Itto Shura should probably scale to Raikiri. His slash was marginally slower, so, their speed is comparable.
Click to expand...
Actually...that slipped my mind. That is true as they stated "he would not make it and would get hit", but that was a small difference in speed. How did i miss that?

The speeds of both parties were that of peerless superhumans. In that case, the decision of which one was superior was left to the weight of hope that each sword carried. The prayers of other people who prayed for their victory wholeheartedly. And the hopes of themselves, wanting to win against the enemy in front of their eyes. All of that was entrusted to the sword of their souls.


"AHHHHHHH!!!"

"YAHHHHHHH!!!"


The two knights put their entire bodies into it, and followed through with their slashes! The flash of lightning from the attack released by steel. The mutual strike that crossed the shortest distance―Raikiri was just slightly faster!

―Not good!

Ikki knew this.

Ok yeah i can't believe i missed this part
 
Since Oikage already has the quotes i assume you mean the rest, but ok here:

ÒÇîThat's how it is. Stella-chan's original ability is not nature interference, but concept interference. And everyone should also know. The mythical monster with boiling blood circulating its body, and breathing out burning flame. The concept of the story that is passed down as a symbol of fear and violence which could not be resisted anywhere in this world......!ÒÇì

 "Don't...tell me......!"

According to Saikyou's words, Ouma, who was forced onto one knee by Stella, thought of the worst possibility as he looked up at her.

And that premonition was spot on.


"Concept interference type ÔöÇÔöÇ Dragon.

****


 "Extend, Orochimaru—!"

Growing from its shortest length, the blade of Orochimaru shot outward with great force, aiming at Sara's heart. Sara's physical ability was not at Kuraudo's level. She could not avoid the extending Orochimaru, which had just been able to keep up with her fast bullets. And yet—at the instant the point of the sword would have arrived at her heart, Orochimaru veered away in its trajectory, stabbing into the ground next to her.

"Huh!?"

Even Kuraudo was confused by this. He surely extended Orochimaru straight forward. Such strange behavior should not have occurred. So why did the trajectory change…!?

But Kuraudo instantly realized the answer. Upon closer look at the ground where Orochimaru was stuck, a bulls-eye target had been drawn there.

So it was pulled into the target…!?

Via the concept of "target" and "aim", Orochimaru had been forced to shift its mark. It was the same as with a gun. In other words…

This girl is definitely… not just using colors! She can manipulate any concept she draws…!

Illusions that paint over reality. That kind of artistry was not unlike divine creation. Demiurge's—a false god's brush. Wasn't it a very appropriate name?

Just 2 quotes to prove that the system itself has Conceptual Interference as a type of ability.
 
The "enforcing causation of death" bit wasn't in your quotes either btw, but both are unsourced so that barely makes a difference
 
His source would be Novel Planet if I'm not miataken.
 
Andytrenom said:
The "enforcing causation of death" bit wasn't in your quotes either btw, but both are unsourced so that barely makes a difference
Click to expand...
Both unsourced? You mean my 2 quotes above? Novel planet > Rakudai Kishi no Cavalry> Volume 8 Pre-Last chapter and Volume 7 respectively.

Also the enforcing the causality of death is not translated yet, but that came due to asking a translator about Ikki vs Iris. You can even find that in the summary of the novel on the Rakudai wiki (which are written by the same people who translate the series btw).
 
Things that are just written, but with no links leading to where they're from, are unsourced yeah.
 
Sir Ovens said:
I agree with the above sans the 7-A. I won't agree with it until more calc group agree with it.
As for the concept manip, I believe it is type 3. The concept of placement is one that governs all of reality, thus manipulating it would be a type 3 concept.
Click to expand...
I agree. I won't agree with 7-A unless there is a calculation accepted by the calc group. Concept Type could be Type 3.
 
For the Shizuku's Low 7-C feat of vaporizing ice, we can't use that calculation since it was no evaluated by calc group.

If characters are powerscaled in speed than the speed upgrade should be fine.

For the Multipliers, I don't know much so I would like to ask are the Multipliers contradicted at all like in battle because from my experiences the large multipliers are largely contradicted so if they are contradicted I would disagree with using them?
 
Pretty sure that same calc was accepted which put shizuku at 8a to begin with but im not sure. @huesito u sure it's accepted?

Ty

Nah, not contradicted.
 
Ok so since everyone is fine with this we run into the last problem being the 7a calc. So the current status is:

The calc is correct. The math and values are correct that's agreed by everyone.

However there is the belief that since it uses statements it's a form of calc stacking. This however is not decisive. As we have Bambu and Dmua who agree that it is not calc stacking and spin and aiden who agree it is. So we're kinda forced into a stalemate here, with other calc members being neutral on the topic. Now how do we solve this, have the 7a be possibly instead of a fixed tier or have it be double tiered?
 
Huesito88 said:
It's listed as a verse calculation which it wouldn't be there if it wasn't accepted.
Click to expand...
Well it's obviously not accepted, looking at the comments.

Not having any calc comments overrides being in verse calculations (which could have been done by anyone, regardless of whether it was accepted or not)
 
I could give it to you, but as i explained it's not that anything changes about her. It's just something that we need to add so that we don't play favorites since she also has concept interference type abilities.
 
But anyway here is the conceptual wound too:

She had outwitted Oreki.

Ayase certainly felt the attack hit.The vacuum blades created by Mark of the Wind was a byproduct of conceptual magic. Honestly, it lacked the power to kill the opponent, and thus was not a decisive move. But a slash of Hizume was a different story. With Ayase's ability, the match would be decided if Ikki received even a scratch from the blade of Hizume, because she could make any kind of wound, no matter how small it was, and open up and tear the flesh until the bone to make it fatal.
 
The abilities of Blazers existed along several systems. Ikki's Ittou Shura was an ability of the body enhancement system. Stella's Dragon's Breath was an ability of the elemental manipulation system. And Ayase Ayatsuji's ability to open wounds was an ability from the conceptual manipulation system. Among those various Blazer superpowers, the system that was the rarest and said to be the strongest was causation manipulation. - Rakudai Volume 4
 
There, a white line that no one had been aware of was connecting Sara straight to Kuraudo's feet.

"Color of Magic—Silk White of Steady Guidance."

That was the concept of setting a path. It was a road of color that could not be stepped away from. And since the color of brilliant blaze that had been thrown before was used to completely surround this span of ground, Kuraudo was not able to dodge this. But— - Rakudai Volume 6
 
Firephoenixearl said:
Ok so since everyone is fine with this we run into the last problem being the 7a calc. So the current status is:
The calc is correct. The math and values are correct that's agreed by everyone.

However there is the belief that since it uses statements it's a form of calc stacking. This however is not decisive. As we have Bambu and Dmua who agree that it is not calc stacking and spin and aiden who agree it is. So we're kinda forced into a stalemate here, with other calc members being neutral on the topic. Now how do we solve this, have the 7a be possibly instead of a fixed tier or have it be double tiered?
Click to expand...
Besides this, everything else is agreed upon.

The Low 7-C should be fine according to damage, and Gremmy didn't seem to have any problem with the math from the comment so the swap from the 8-A to Low 7-C should be fine right?

I will call ant then.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

TISSG7Redgrave
  • Locked
Rakudai: Wtf is this???
Replies
26
Views
4K
TISSG7Redgrave
TISSG7Redgrave
Experiment12
  • Article
1A Chavalry of a failed knight
Replies
8
Views
2K
Shereen
Shereen
Speedblitzer50
  • Locked
Touhou regen neg and more CRT
2
Replies
63
Views
3K
Speedblitzer50
Speedblitzer50
Furina003
MHS+ Speed Raiden Shogun and Element Electro (Genshin Impact)
Replies
38
Views
2K
Furina003
Furina003
KobsterHope07
  • Locked
KN8 Chapter 114 CRT
Replies
15
Views
954
KobsterHope07
KobsterHope07
Back
Top