Raiden's "Reactive Power Level" (Metal Gear Rising)

[AKM sama]

I believe this is the current count:

13 Agree: New, Weekly, Armor, Grath, Medeus, Creature, Abstractions, DMUA, AKM, Mori, Ovens, Wright_Way, Maverick

7 Disagree: Twellas, Arcker, Chariot, Spooky, Reaper, Soul, Riki

I see @SheevShezarrine is a knowledgeable member who has given this thread a look, at least. So if they want to state their opinions, they should too.

EDIT: updated after Qaw's request.

 

[Qawsedf234]

In phase 2, they go out of their way to show he physically can.
That's literally all we can say for fact here, unless someone wants to try pirating a copy of the artbook and seeing if there's any relevant info in there?

The most I got from the artbook was this.

However the official strategy guide did say that you could avoid every single Armstrong QTE with proper parrying (1 2). Meaning every QTE incident in Phase 3 besides the last section is entirely optional.

As for my option remove me for the moment. I have to fully develop what side I support after some more of the recent stuff.

 

[Chariot190]

Meaning every QTE incident in Phase 3 besides the last section is entirely optional.

But that's literally wrong? At certain parts Armstrong will always initiate a scripted QTE, like, you can literally jump across the map and get away from him, various ones will always trigger.
a̶l̶s̶o̶ ̶I̶ ̶h̶o̶p̶e̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶g̶o̶d̶ ̶w̶e̶'̶r̶e̶ ̶n̶o̶t̶ ̶a̶b̶o̶u̶t̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶p̶r̶e̶t̶e̶n̶d̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶Q̶T̶E̶'̶s̶ ̶d̶i̶d̶n̶t̶ ̶h̶a̶p̶p̶e̶n̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶c̶a̶n̶o̶n̶

Edit; Actually, when it says "this can successfully be blocked with successful button presses". It's saying that "if you press the proper QTE buttons Raiden will do the things shown a dozen times in this thread". It's not saying Raiden can just block and cancel out the QTE, it's saying the QTE can be done and the player can easily stop themsevles from getting their face smashed in and failing the QTE by pressing the buttons. Unless Im blind and missed where it says something else?

 

[Qawsedf234]

But that's literally wrong?

It's what's the strategy guide says. Not me. According to it they're all avoidable with correct block timing.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Unless Im blind and missed where it says something else?

The section below the picture on the second page

 

[Chariot190]

The section below the picture on the second page

"If you use blade mode and the defense offense option you can avoid this charge and the sequence that follows".
Is that what you mean? Pretty sure it's talking exclusively about the final charge as the other QTE's are either guaranteed and initiate no matter what when Armstrong jumps away from the arena or are heatseeking tackles he'll initiate after certain health drops that il trigger a cutscene on contact (Edit: Not even contact, if he gets close it auto goes into a cutscene, you cant even block or zandetsu it) and force you into a QTE.

Basically the QTE's linked in this thread where Raiden floors him aren't avoidable to my knowledge (Unless you go out of your way to never pick the sword back up and proceed to fight him bare handed down to below 20%, which makes it so he can never actually disarm you again in the first place) and the guide isn't referring to them in that line.
Like, I'll try and test it out on my copy but just saying.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Basically the QTE's linked in this thread where Raiden floors him aren't avoidable to my

According to the guide, defensive offensive allows you to dodge every charge and QTE sequence from them. It also says you can manually run to avoid the pillars he throws at Raiden. Only the final charge in Phase 3 is unavoidable.

 

[Armorchompy]

I can confirm on dodging the pillars, when I was beating the game for my brother I couldn't get used to his control config so I just ran away from them.

 

[Chariot190]

According to the guide, defensive offensive allows you to dodge every charge and QTE sequence from them. It also says you can manually run to avoid the pillars he throws at Raiden. Only the final charge in Phase 3 is unavoidable.

Checked. Only avoidable if you abuse I frames to avoid the giant normally unavoidable hitbox that heatseeks. Even then, it's blatant gameplay mechanics, you're supposed to enter the QTE (you can even do the same to the final QTE fyi, ad infinitum).

The game automatically always puts you in Blade Mode when he tosses the debris, even if you run away, you're intended to slice them apart, the game actively tried to force you into it.

And in the final QTE Raiden stills slams Armstrong physically so either way.

But no, QTE's are 100% canon, they're intended to happen, are always meant to happen at various health checkpoints, there's unique dialogue that plays out in the exchanges, and so on and so forth.
Do not actually try and pull the "well if you purposely go out of your way and make an effort to avoid them even when the game tries to force them then they don't count".
Of course they count, and not just that QTE, but every QTE in the game, they're intended and purposely designed to happen, to show and reflect the characters interactions, even occasionally outright alluded to in codecs and dialogue.

I mean, you really gonna sit there and go "you can avoid them so they're noncanon and don't count", in the same vain I can say that Raiden can avoid using Muramusa to take Armstrong down to death's door and fight him with his bare hands so him using Muramusa don't count even though he's clearly intended to make use of it. Or that the entire second part of Sundowner isn't canon because you can avoid it even though it's clearly canon with dialogue and all that. I could go on, hell at this point, why even have any profiles? The QTE's throughout the game are the best and most accurate canonical representation of their abilities and what transpired, but if we're about to ignore them then we have far less to go on. Hell let's not stop there, the MGS4 Snake and Ocelot fight, that's filled with like a dozen QTE's, but you can stun lock his ass so they aren't canon I guess?

Point is, Armstrong (along with every other one in the game, given there's like 40+) QTE's are very blatant and purposely designed to happen, there's story elements and dialogue to them with an entire phase being designed and implemented in response to two of the QTE, the game as a whole makes heavy use of them and Armstrong is scripted to use them at certain points in the fight every time. And as mentioned the final QTE still has Raiden doing the same shit and Muramusa doing the same as the others as well.

I'll sit here all day and vehemently argue their usability and canonicity, I'd rather have the profiles be deleted then blatant ignorance of events.

When I said I wonder if the guide has anything of note I meant a statement like "Raiden grew in strength" or a solid statement explaining the damage discrepancy with his bare fists exists whether it's due to progression or otherwise.

Though, the other scan is useful given its an objective statement, so I'll give you that one. Though I'm unsure if it actually helps anyone's case given its just reiterating things we already know and have been argued, besides Vamp.

 

[Chariot190]

I can confirm on dodging the pillars, when I was beating the game for my brother I couldn't get used to his control config so I just ran away from them.

I actually feel you on that one, the manual blade mode was always kinda hard to do, as in, lining up the blade alignment.

 

[Qawsedf234]

But no, QTE's are 100% canon, they're intended to happen, are always meant to happen at various health checkpoints, there's unique dialogue that plays out in the exchanges, and so on and so forth.

Yeah, I wasn't really trying to dismiss them. Just that according to a previously mentioned source they can all be avoided.

 

[Chariot190]

Yeah, I wasn't really trying to dismiss them. Just that according to a previously mentioned source they can all be avoided.

As long as we aren't trying to say they aren't canon or events that transpired or whatever, fair enough.
There's other examples of breaking the intended progression elsewhere in the game as well but they aren't how it canonically went (Sundown again as my example, because it's actually kinda ****** you can skip it, you don't even get the vocal track).

 

[SheevShezarrine]

I disagree with Raiden starting the fight in Ripper Mode, but I do agree that Murasama was able to wear down Armstrong's nanomachines to the point that Raiden could harm him bare-handed without Reactive Power Level

 

[Chariot190]

I disagree with Raiden starting the fight in Ripper Mode, but I do agree that Murasama was able to wear down Armstrong's nanomachines to the point that Raiden could harm him bare-handed without Reactive Power Level

That's demonstrably false though? Especially given one such QTE happens almost at the start of the fight 180% iirc, as in, once he hits that much, he willl attack Raiden and initiate the QTE), and that's not how his nano's work.
You don't just chip away at him and his nano's just get drastically weaker over time, that argument only works if Raiden uses Muramasa repeatedly in the same spot over and over and then promptly follows up with hitting the spot he wore down, otherwise that isn't how it works and he'd be defended all the same, this is made especially blatant because Jack actually DID do that at the very end to kill Armstrong, but that isn't the case for Raiden punching him in the face, side, flip kicking him, swiftly chopping, back kicking and so on all without the blade being a factor (ignoring that he default, Raiden's physical blows in phase 2 comparatively do 4-5x more compared to phase 1, bare handed, without Muramusa).
Not to mention Raiden still hits him in "black spots" just in case you want to go that route, again. And Muramusa in some examples is even no sold throughout the fight it does little damage in the QTE's.
Plus as said, and subject to great debate above, Raiden went from 0 to 11 right away, there was no "wearing him down" in the majority of examples (And the examples where that has been the case I've gone out if my way to exclude as that'd be dishonest, luckily that's only the final QTE when Armstrong is like at 0.1%).

I can not stress this enough, Muramusa, while it helped Raiden out and allowed him to kill Armstrong, the blade has no bearing on why or how his physical strikes are far and beyond phase 1. They're not mutually exclusive here.

 

[Hunterzillas]

I will say that the last QTE, where you put Armstrong's health down to 0.1% is unavoidable, since that's how you have to finish him off. Raiden has to kick Armstrong, and later he has to headbutt Armstrong and stun him. If this has already been pointed out then ignore this.

That is after Armstrong has received severe damage, as noted by his various cuts and dripping blood, but Raiden eventually does need to hit him.

 

[AKM sama]

Anyway, I personally think that there is just about enough consensus to accept the CRT. @ShivaShakti what particular changes need to be made?

 

[ShivaShakti]

Anyway, I personally think that there is just about enough consensus to accept the CRT. @ShivaShakti what particular changes need to be made?

Removal of Reactive Power level from his abilities, removal of "Higher with reactive Power level" and the corresponding descriptions within his AP and durability sections

 

[DaReaperMan]

Yeah, remember to make that x10 CRT

 

[AKM sama]

Removal of Reactive Power level from his abilities, removal of "Higher with reactive Power level" and the corresponding descriptions within his AP and durability sections

Would you or anyone else be willing to carry out these changes?

 

[ShivaShakti]

Would you or anyone else be willing to carry out these changes?

I'll do it

 

[ShivaShakti]

Changes have been applied