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Raiden vs Yujiro

Metal Gear characters could do completely perfect clones like 50 years before Rising events. It only improved since then. Massively. Metal Gear Nanotechnology is far above what Bakiverse can do.
 
1) Yujiro's IA is cellular, so he'd easily be able to see all the interworkings and mechanics of Raiden's body

2) Yujiro is either hitting first with 0.5 or amping himself and annihilating Raiden

3) We've already discussed Blade Mode is only 10x, and Yujiro has 3 different amps, 2 being passive, that either allow him to deal with someone 10x faster or give him 10x reaction speed, so Blade Mode still doesn't touch Yujiro
 
KGiffoni said:
Twellas said:
The fact that Yujiro wouldn't is irrelevant, Jack will do it for him, Yujiro punches Jack, Jack blocks with the blade. The best that can happen to Yujiro is that he retracts his attack, but that would basically create a situation where he can't attack, can't block and can only dodge.
It's not so much about pain as much as an advantage, i don't think i need to explain how having 1 arm is worse than having 2 in a fight, and don't get me started on fighting with just 1 leg. Let's also not forget that Ripper mode doesn't just boost speed, it also boosts strength by about 7 times (this multiplier comes from in-game damage, it's extremely consistent but take it with a grain of salt)
Click to expand...
You do know Yujiro has mastered virtually all martial arts of his verse and thus isn't really these brute strength guys that just rush at you right?
Click to expand...
yeah, i know, and? It's not about brute force, it's about "attacking", the second Yujiro throws an offensive move of any kind at Raiden he's gonna lose his limb, brute strength has nothing to do with my idea
 
SpookyShadow said:
Metal Gear characters could do completely perfect clones like 50 years before Rising events. It only improved since then. Massively. Metal Gear Nanotechnology is far above what Bakiverse can do.
Click to expand...
Improved to the point where Raiden's MGS4 body is considered basically unusable for how obsolete it is
 
1) He has no feats of seeing something on Raiden's caliber from what I've heard.

2) Yeah, he will definitely have time to amp against a guy who is not only 10 times faster but it's only boosted by RIPPER MODE, which makes him Sub-Rel, and later hit him when Jack's perception of time is slowed down...

3) Blade Mode is 10x, amplified greatly by Ripper Mode, that's why he's "At least Sub-Rel" in Ripper Mode. There's not such thing as passive stat amp. Stat amps need to be activated. I see that he has only stat amps via Demon Back on his profile. I'm very sure he doesn't start with this. He has only standard melee range so Jack can slice him even if Yujiro is not making physical contact with the blade. Blade Mode IS touching Yujiro. Very much so, to the point where there's nothing left of him. What are his speed amps? Can you list them and give some scans on them being 10x or something?
 
I don't think Musashi reaches quite the level Raiden has.

1) Spooky and I are in agreement. Unless you got some stuff backing up nanomachines and cyborgs and such. Also cloning isn't too bad. But we're talking about robotics here mate. I'm afraid that's not gonna cut it @KG

2) Except he literally doesn't use the best move since his precog was wanked to be "I know the best thing to do right away and no one else can stop me"

You know I gotta ask.. how can a speed amp be a passive?? It's called a speed amp for a reason. Not pointing fingers at anyone just literally confused by that
 
BakiHanma18 said:
1) Yujiro's IA is cellular, so he'd easily be able to see all the interworkings and mechanics of Raiden's body
2) Yujiro is either hitting first with 0.5 or amping himself and annihilating Raiden

3) We've already discussed Blade Mode is only 10x, and Yujiro has 3 different amps, 2 being passive, that either allow him to deal with someone 10x faster or give him 10x reaction speed, so Blade Mode still doesn't touch Yujiro
Click to expand...
1) Raiden's body and sword work with mechanism that don't even exist in the Bakiverse and are lightyears beyond them, saying that he could do this is a HUGE stretch

2) Raiden's stamina is ridiculous, nothing Yujjiro can do in 0,5 seconds will even come close to KOing Raiden, the dude got basically lynched for 15 minutes straight by a character who was physically stronger than him without being hurt and got back up stronger and faster than he was before

3) Blade mode is 10x, blade mode with Ripper mode is 20x (Yes, time goes slower when using BM in RM) and Ripper mode also multiplies strength (about 7x), on top of this Raiden is the faster character in base to being with, Raiden just has this in the speed department
 
By the way has Yujiro ever used his prediction in combat? Or info analysis like to even strike anyone at pressure points? Or does he just have all that and never uses it ever?
 
1) Unless Raiden's gears and stuff are smaller than a single cell, Yujiro's IA works

2) Ripper mode is already activated in 7-C, so with speed equalized, Yujiro has more amps, better amps, and they'd be starting at the same speed

3) He has tens of moves that amp every single stat, so no, Yujiro has every advantage going into this
 
@Oblivion

Well not as in it doesn't exist, but doesn't it just mean it's a new natural passive speed?

@Baki

1) Unless you can back up Baki being close to Metal Gear level in the advancement of their technology, that ain't gonna cut it mate. I haven't seen Yujiro be knowledgeable about machines
 
1) All the more reason for Yujiro to avoid a sword he can't even identify the contents of

2) It's not actually 0.5 seconds, and Dress would smack Raiden

3) Ripper mode is already active or else Raiden wouldn't be 7-C
 
1) So he sees through it, and what? He will not understand it. It's far from future. He will not have even a single clue what's going on in his body.

2) Yeah, and Jack is naturally faster character, so I think his speed amps are meant to be better?

3) And can you bring scans as I asked that prove that it's 10x or more?
 
Ciruno Fortes said:
By the way has Yujiro ever used his prediction in combat? Or info analysis like to even strike anyone at pressure points? Or does he just have all that and never uses it ever?
Click to expand...
According to the chapter in which IA was addressed, it's passive, he just sees everything he does just by looking
 
1) All the more reason for Yujiro to avoid a sword he can't even identify the contents of
2) It's not actually 0.5 seconds, and Dress would smack Raiden

3) Ripper mode is already active or else Raiden wouldn't be 7-C

1) implying he could even realize that there is more to that sword that meets the eye. Again, Raiden's sword looks normal, it's not the Murasama, which has OBVIOUSLY something going on, there wouldn't be any reason to suspect anything special from his blade. It sure would be cool to see a feat from Yujiro that comes even just close to what you claim he can do, because you are making him out to be some sort of fortune teller\hypergenius who can indentify and master technologies that are leaps and bounds beyond his verse's understanding just by looking at it

2) This point of yours literally boils down to "no lmao"


3) The "Ripper mode is already active or else Raiden wouldn't be 7-C" isn't accurate. Raiden's sword tanked his Ripper Mode 7-C attack and Armstrong then straight up snapped the thing in half, base Raiden then proceded to beat Armstrong, so no, Raiden can very well be 7-C in base
 
SpookyShadow said:
1) So he sees through it, and what? He will not understand it. It's far from future. He will not have even a single clue what's going on in his body.
2) Yeah, and Jack is naturally faster character, so I think his speed amps are meant to be better?

3) And can you bring scans as I asked that prove that it's 10x or more?
Click to expand...
1) *Sees it. "Oh wow, I know nothing about what this does or what it is. Better kill it before it possibly kills me." Nukes exist in Baki, and could potentially kill Yujiro, so Yujiro knows he's not invincible. Why would he play around with a cyborg man that could potentially vaporize him with a mouth laser or something?

2) Jack being naturally faster and the level of his speed amps are to completely separate matters. His amp is 10x, Yujiro has 3 10x level amps, and 2 are passive

3) It was mentioned earlier in this thread, the discussion between me and Soul
 
AW Twellas said:
1) All the more reason for Yujiro to avoid a sword he can't even identify the contents of
2) It's not actually 0.5 seconds, and Dress would smack Raiden

3) Ripper mode is already active or else Raiden wouldn't be 7-C
Click to expand...
1) implying he could even realize that there is more to that sword that meets the eye. Again, Raiden's sword looks normal, it's not the Murasama, which has OBVIOUSLY something going on, there wouldn't be any reason to suspect anything special from his blade. It sure would be cool to see a feat from Yujiro that comes even just close to what you claim he can do, because you are making him out to be some sort of fortune teller\hypergenius who can indentify and master technologies that are leaps and bounds beyond his verse's understanding just by looking at it
2) This point of yours literally boils down to "no lmao" 3) The "Ripper mode is already active or else Raiden wouldn't be 7-C" isn't accurate. Raiden's sword tanked his Ripper Mode 7-C attack and Armstrong then straight up snapped the thing in half, base Raiden then proceded to beat Armstrong, so no, Raiden can very well be 7-C in base

1) He literally sees its components at a cellular level and doesn't recognize it. That's being avoid, that's obvious...

3) No he's not

Low 7-C, 7-C with Ripper Mode
 
1) Yeah that sounds about right honestly. Believable on intent. Let's see if he can pull it off.


3) Why? This is a VS debate. Anyone can talk. I mean hopefully in an organized manner but if they have something to say I say "say"
 
Well he should be. Amstrong is 7-C and Raiden beat him in base, period, there's no going around this, why the hell is Raiden not 7-C in base? The profile is simply inaccurate
 
Also why is he not Sub-Rel in base? He can fight on equal footing with Armstrong in base, who can block his BM RM attacks, which are SURELY sub-rel
 
SpookyShadow said:
He didn't damage Armstrong at all at base. His punches did literally no damage.
Click to expand...
They actually did, not much, but they did, and they knocked him back aswell. Also, punches fall under striking strength, not ap
 
They have similar lifting strength so it's obvious they would knock him back. But his electricity amped punches did no damage to Armstrong with Nanomachines active. Armstrong was stomping him at the time, shirtless Senatoe vs Ripper Mode Murasama Raiden was already a match.
 
So Yujiro pre amps and DB>= Raiden post amps in strength

Yujiro pre amps and DB <<< Raiden post amps in speed

Yujiro post all amps >>> Raiden post amps in speed (combat and reaction only) and strength
 
Once you bring proof his amps are better maybe it will be valid.

I've heard DB is his best amp and it's 4x at best. Or do you want to argue now thar Yujiro starts with it?
 
SpookyShadow said:
They have similar lifting strength so it's obvious they would knock him back. But his electricity amped punches did no damage to Armstrong with Nanomachines active. Armstrong was stomping him at the time, shirtless Senatoe vs Ripper Mode Murasama Raiden was already a match.
Click to expand...
Yeah, and Shirtless Armstrong is a straight up bloodlusted Armstrong who dropped every peacefull intention he previously had and is hellbent on killing Raiden, I really don't see why Raiden's base shouldn't scale, especially considering the double punch qte where one of Raiden's punches send Armstrong flying to the ground
 
Puncho 1
Puncho 2
They 100% do damage to him, and a lot, you can even see it by the health bar. Armstrong even says "that hurt" after receiving the punch. Murasama Raiden is 100% equal to if not stronger than Armstrong
 
Also in this fight Raiden can easily dodge point blank attacks from Armstrong (such as the powered up punch he throws in the pictures i posted) so he also 100% scales to Armstrong's speed in base
 
SpookyShadow said:
But he was in Ripper Mode here. His eyes were red and he had red aura.
Click to expand...
He was not. You can use Ripper Mode during the fight and if you don't you are in base
 
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