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Raiden vs Yujiro

SpookyShadow said:
Once you bring proof his amps are better maybe it will be valid.
I've heard DB is his best amp and it's 4x at best. Or do you want to argue now thar Yujiro starts with it?
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First off, it was already discussed that due to Sangan being able to amp Doppo to Hypersonic+, Sangan alone is anywhere between 2.5x-10x, and Yujiro's pseudo precog scales vastly above that, so right off the bat, that's, at the very least, vastly above 5x in reaction speed. Since Blade Mode is only 10x,

Sub-Relativistic with Blade Mode (Makes him 10 times faster)

Yujiro should be comparable in reaction speed before all of his speed and strength amping moves that I outline earlier in the thread

Edit: I don't even think Yujiro needs DB for this
 
Seriously, in NONE of the cutscenes from this fight\qte's does Raiden show to be in Ripper Mode. He beat Armstrong in his base and thus his base scales above Armstrong
 
The only thing that can even just lead to think that he was in ripper mode is this shot, which happens only AFTER Armstrong is already dead and is simply simbolic of Raiden accepting and embracing is Ripper persona (the red eyes), which is why there's no red aura there and all the shots before this one show Raiden with his normal eye(s)

Reidennu
 
"Vastly above 5x"

Dude. If it's unquantifable then don't even bring that up. Ripper Mode makes Jack's perception of time literally slow down and he can do possibly hundreds of slashes in that few seconds.

"I don't even think Yujiro needs DB for this"

Pretty sure he does... Because he gets completely outranged and turned into salsa a second he comes close or before even thinks to use his amp. Ripper Mode Jack is bloodlusted and willing to kill, so it's his first move and he's going to use that.
 
Harrrtu
Also Raiden was undeniably in base form when he crushed Armstrong's heart. Is this also a game mechanic?
 
But it's not tho. It's as " unqualifiable" as Yujiro's AP above Town level: at least its vastly above 5x (2.5 from Sangan, vastly above 2.5x with PP), at most it's vastly above 20x (10x from Sangan, vastly above 10x from PP). Yujiro, using PP was literally able to overcome Sagan despite it completely negging him moments before.

Hes not fast enough nor is he skilled enough to hit Yujiro, and Yujiro is vastly stronger than him, being able to 2-shot a 15KT Oliva/ SOO Baki
 
Seriously, unless you want to say that ALL the scripted events during the fight are inaccurate and that the final cutscene is wrong it's undeniable that Murasama base Raiden scales above Armstrong.
Ohiosst
The reason why people think he was in ripper mode throught the fight is a mere misinterpretation of this scene right here. Raiden's eye glows red for a second and people think he goes ripper mode, but that's factually incorrect. This eye glow has nothing to do with the red eye we see when he goes Ripper Mode and it only lasts for a second, it's also evident that Raiden doesn't display his aura right here; This red eye is a very simple symbol of determination, nothing more than that. The last factor that puts the "he canonically went Ripper Mode at the beginning and stayed like that for the entire fight" to rest is the fact that right after this scene when we get to control Raiden, he's in base, whereas when he goes RM during cutscenes (Monsoon's fight) he's also RM in-game.
Raiden beat Armstrong in base and scales above him. The Murasama did nothing but negate Armstrong's hardening hax and put them on an equal playing field.
 
SpookyShadow said:
Do you really believe a sensitive heart is as durable as hardened body or skin?
Click to expand...
The "sensitive heart" is literally the place from where Armstrong's hardening comes from in the first place, it's not some normal human heart.
 
it's not really derailing, it's countering the opponent's top win-con. If Raiden is 7-C without Ripper Mode it means that he has access to its amps
 
SpookyShadow said:
I'll just say one thing, Jack can cut him down in half from distance, something Yujiro will definitely not know.
Click to expand...
But with an amp like Cockroach Tackle or with something 0.5, Yujiro would hit first, and likely oneshot
 
This is the whole reason I voted incon: Yujiro hits first, Yujiro wins, Raiden hits first Raiden wins. Both have amps, but there's no telling for sure who amps first, which amp Yujiro uses, or who lands the first hit
 
SpookyShadow said:
Amp? Isn't it just an attack using more of his strength?
Click to expand...
No, Cockroach Tackle Baki was able to straight up smash Yujiro through 6 walls with little to no resistance, and not only was Yujiro stronger, but any martial arts Yujiro copies, he does better
 
But it seems just like an attack, not an amp. Not everything is an amp. For example, if I use more of my legs strength to jump, it's not an amp, it's just me using more strength.
 
SpookyShadow said:
But it seems just like an attack, not an amp. Not everything is an amp. For example, if I use more of my legs strength to jump, it's not an amp, it's just me using more strength.
Click to expand...
Ahh, I see where the confusion is. To clarify, most of Yujiro's amps are only during the attack. Ex, Hitless Blow is one of the fastest moves in the verse, it would allow someone like Katsumi to blitz someone like Baki or Yujiro potentially. This speed amp only last for that 1 hit. After the punch, his speed is the same, hell DURING the punch, his overall speed does not amp, only the speed of that fist
 
SpookyShadow said:
Nah thanks dude, I lost my interest in this debate for this time I think. I'll leave this to someone else probably, I'll elaborate if you ask me to.
Click to expand...
Okay, I'll be here if you want to debate something else about this
 
and why doesn't Raiden have type 2 immortality? He can survive being stapped in the heart in MGS4 and being gutted in MGR without needing to heal from it
 
Posted the thread, I say we keep this debate on hold until the upgrade is either accepted or denied, it's gonna be a significant boost to Raiden's power, especially with the addition of accelerated development
 
Twellas said:
Posted the thread, I say we keep this debate on hold until the upgrade is either accepted or denied, it's gonna be a significant boost to Raiden's power, especially with the addition of accelerated development
Click to expand...
I agree, the more accurate information used, the more likely the battle will unfold as it actually would
 
Hrmm.

So, this debate is pretty long. Yujiro obviously has skill and techniques, but Jack has absurd speed + HF Blade? What are Yujiro's best wincons besides skill? And is this still fair after upgrades?
 
I don't know, he has the S K I L L but Jack can chop him to salsa quite easily

I just noticed it has almost 400 replies, wow. Are Yujiro threads always like that?
 
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