Quick Dante weakness addition

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Basically Dante is an overly confident guy, since his powers and abilities are tremendous he rarely takes fights seriously and doesn't bother with them. This specifically goes to his DMC3 Pre-DT and DMC4 keys.

I know that Vol1 explains his "overconfidence and arrogance" as mere tactics to throw his enemies off the game but this changes in 2 (3 if you count Before the Nightmare) games.

In the beginning of the DMC3 Manga Dante is presented as a hedonistic person, he barely takes his work seriously and doesn't really care about demons besides killing them for his own pleasure, this carries on to the beginning of DMC3 in which he lets himself get impaled just for the ***** and giggles. At this point the arrogance and the joking is real, he is overconfident in his abilities as proven by him defeating the black knights that were sent after him, this because his power kept growing to the point he could deal with dozens of them while months earlier he almost got killed by a single unit.

This of course changes after Vergil beats the crap out of him and he realizes he has a legacy to uphold so this weakness doesn't fall for his Post DT key.

Then in DMC4 this arrogance and overconfidence comes back, this time with more power and the reason behind it is simple, to quote the novel:

"He usually wouldn’t think about stuff like that - he’d been pretty confident in the abilities he inherited from his father, and so far, hadn’t had any reason to believe he could lose..." Deadly Fortune, Volume 2 p. 101

His great power has made him get bored in fights to the point he would stand still and let demons attack him for free just to see what they are capable off:

"Dante just stood there, doing nothing. Sometimes he found it fun to let his enemies get a hit on him - to see what they were capable of, and to make things more interesting. Demon hunting could get real mechanic and boring if he just always went all out, after all." DF, Vol2 p.106

He is also willing to drag out fights just to amuse himself:

“Don’t tell me this is already too much for you?” Dante wanted to wait and see what she’d reply if he gave her time to recover, but he quickly dismissed that thought. It seemed like she would go down with either the next hit or with a single shot of his gun - he was actually, a bit upset that it was already over DF, Vol2 p.112

This is repeated all over DMC4, he could have ended the whole mess in a blink but decided to just chill out and wait, all because his power being so great that not even demon gods could give him a proper fight. DMC4 Dante is basically Saitama :v

In short, his Pre DT and DMC4 keys get the overconfidence and arrogance back, he is willing to drag fights and let himself get hit just to have some fun.


Somehow my dumb ass confused nihilistic with hedonistic, fixed that part

 

[KLOL506]

Looks fine at a glance. Also add in gambling debts, pizza, strawberry sundae, and unwillingness to involve friends and family against Vergil simply because of the fact that he knows revenge never solves anything and only further worsens your own judgment.

 

[Reploidnoridomix]

can't imagine that dmc 4 is taking place after dmc 2 :v

 

[Shmooply]

Looks good to me.

 

[KLOL506]

can't imagine that dmc 4 is taking place after dmc 2 :v

You're about 3 years late my man

 

[PapiSavitar5025]

This seems fine, and very in character lmao.

 

[RedReaper]

Understandable changes.

 

[Sevil Natas]

yep this seems right. I agree

 

[Random-Helper323]

Not sure how large of a weakness it is when he can sense power levels though. So this only applies to DMC4 and Pre-DT DMC3, right? Not DMC5, or DMC1?

 

[RedReaper]

Not sure how large of a weakness it is when he can sense power levels though. So this only applies to DMC4 and Pre-DT DMC3, right? Not DMC5, or DMC1?

Ye.

 

[Lightning_XXI]

Not sure how large of a weakness it is when he can sense power levels though. So this only applies to DMC4 and Pre-DT DMC3, right? Not DMC5, or DMC1?

My thoughts exactly, I guess his power sensing is just not passive or simply ignored by the developers

Anyway, I wonder if his DMC4 weakness carries over to DMC5 ? We know for a fact that between the DMC3 events he changes to something more serious and goes like that up to DMC2, then in DMC4 it appears again, what makes us believe it didn't lasted up to DMC5 ?

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

My thoughts exactly, I guess his power sensing is just not passive or simply ignored by the developers

He does that every time... its one of the reasons why he chooses to indulge weaker foes. Because he knows he can afford it.

Anyway, I wonder if his DMC4 weakness carries over to DMC5 ? We know for a fact that between the DMC3 events he changes to something more serious and goes like that up to DMC2, then in DMC4 it appears again, what makes us believe it didn't lasted up to DMC5 ?

Not in DMC5, he is quite serious in fighting. None of that "lemme get hit" stuff.
In his first fight against Urizen he goes DT literally after first swing of his Rebellion because he cannot crash the barrier.
All the banter is just a mask, otherwise he is quite bloodthirsty....moreso then any other games ironically.

 

[RedReaper]

My thoughts exactly, I guess his power sensing is just not passive or simply ignored by the developers

Anyway, I wonder if his DMC4 weakness carries over to DMC5 ? We know for a fact that between the DMC3 events he changes to something more serious and goes like that up to DMC2, then in DMC4 it appears again, what makes us believe it didn't lasted up to DMC5 ?

Iirc it’s passive, so it’s probably the latter. That or Dante purposely lets himself get hit because he’s aware of just how weak those Demons are, which at that point isn’t really arrogance so much as being assured of what the consequences would be.

 

[Random-Helper323]

The notion that his silliness is fake is supported by the scene in Visions of V where Dante seems to be joking but at the same time his true nature projects an aura that scares V so hard he practically messes his pants. And unlike in DMC4 there's never a time in DMC5 when he lets an attack hit him. Generally, if we combine his ability to detect power level, even if it's not as focused as Vergil's, with the fact that he only seems to let weak foes hit him, with every such incident amounting to nothing, I'm not sure it's as much of a weakness as it would seem.

 

[Lightning_XXI]

He does that every time... its one of the reasons why he chooses to indulge weaker foes. Because he knows he can afford it.

We all think too much on this, it's quite clear the developers are not aware of the full extent of his powers, I'm not saying he should lose anything, mind you, but sometimes, usually with very haxed characters, we bump into a few inconsistencies

Not in DMC5, he is quite serious in fighting. None of that "lemme get hit" stuff.
In his first fight against Urizen he goes DT literally after first swing of his Rebellion because he cannot crash the barrier.
All the banter is just a mask, otherwise he is quite bloodthirsty....moreso then any other games ironically.

He does just that with lower enemies, the Fury scene, that almost shaving scene in Mission 10, Cavaliere Angelo scenes, against weaker enemies, while in DMC4 he never faced anything beyond pathetic next to him, in DMC5 when he does, he gets serious, dead serious

My actual point is, his weakness should be in DMC4 and 5, but it's actually not applicable on combat, or "barely" applicable, since in a VS Thread he will be fighting something on around his level

 

[Random-Helper323]

I have to ask, isn't his tendency to mess around against enemies he knows are useless against him similar to a human not fighting seriously against a bug? I don't know if we can really call that a serious weakness for combat.

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

I have to ask, isn't his tendency to mess around against enemies he knows are useless against him similar to a human not fighting seriously against a bug? I don't know if we can really call that a serious weakness for combat.

 

[Lightning_XXI]

I have to ask, isn't his tendency to mess around against enemies he knows are useless against him similar to a human not fighting seriously against a bug? I don't know if we can really call that a serious weakness for combat.

We can, the weakness section isn't just the ones related or applicable to VS Threads, but in general

 

[Sevil Natas]

I have to ask, isn't his tendency to mess around against enemies he knows are useless against him similar to a human not fighting seriously against a bug? I don't know if we can really call that a serious weakness for combat.

well, say if that bug turned out to be poisonous and that human dies because of his recklessness? wouldn't that be a weakness? while yes Dante could sense foes' power level he can't sense what their abilities are. and if he acts overconfident there then that might mess his ass up if the enemy has some ability that could harm Dante. he might seriously underestimate opponents that are just weaker than him due to this.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

I agree, said weakness can be exploited by smart and well equiped characters.

Imagine a foe who can complete mask/erase his all his aura/information etc or disguise it as something weak or harmless. Imagine this disguise being so skilled and resistances so potent that Dante can't sense/see through it.
Dante will be in one hell of a surprise when out of nowhere he gets his ass kicked by a seemingly weak enemy.

That's why Vergil is so different. He doesn't toy or waste time no matter what kind of enemy it is. Weak or strong..... Vergil is just "kill, kill, kill.........kill, kill..." You get the idea. He is no nonsense efficient killing machine.
Only Dante is an exception who he enjoys fighting.

 

[Random-Helper323]

well, say if that bug turned out to be poisonous and that human dies because of his recklessness? wouldn't that be a weakness? while yes Dante could sense foes' power level he can't sense what their abilities are. and if he acts overconfident there then that might mess his ass up if the enemy has some ability that could harm Dante. he might seriously underestimate opponents that are just weaker than him due to this.

These situations aren't a 1 to 1 comparison. I probably should have specified I meant a bug that the human knows isn't dangerous. If the person doesn't know what type of bug it is and gets poisoned, that isn't the same as Dante who knows the enemy is weak and who can resist demon's hax across the board.

Edit: Gilver makes a good point about enemies that can pretend to be weak. It should be fine to add it, although it should specify that it's against enemies he knows can't harm him, or it'll be brought up in almost every serious versus thread. Better to describe it properly in the page than explain it every time a versus thread happens.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

We all think too much on this, it's quite clear the developers are not aware of the full extent of his powers, I'm not saying he should lose anything, mind you, but sometimes, usually with very haxed characters, we bump into a few inconsistencies

Not really, Dante uses his supernatural senses quite normally, same as his other physical senses like sight, hearing or smell etc. The guys is highly attuned to supernatural. Even on random mundane objects the guy tries to read aura and magic energy. Its shown in games to where depictions are hardest. In novels its even more blatant.
Hell I remember the novels saying Dante constantly relies on his enhanced olfactory sense to track his enemies like some sort of dog. Its as in character for him to rely on his senses to observer and analyze his enemies just as we in real life try to use our normal senses to study something.

He does just that with lower enemies, the Fury scene, that almost shaving scene in Mission 10, Cavaliere Angelo scenes, against weaker enemies, while in DMC4 he never faced anything beyond pathetic next to him, in DMC5 when he does, he gets serious, dead serious

My actual point is, his weakness should be in DMC4 and 5, but it's actually not applicable on combat, or "barely" applicable, since in a VS Thread

The point is he allows himself to get hit. Which doesn't happen in 5. But it's quite rampant in 3 and 4. But even then it's driven by curiosity or tactics to make his enemies reveal their tricks or fool them. 4 makes even that clear. Obviously there's enjoyment in battle to be had as well. But yeah even at his most arrogant Dante isn't dumb so this is a very niche weakness for him, you can see why.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Guys, guys, you are thinking that DMC3 and 4 Dante act the same as the novels or like in 5.

In DMC1, Vol2, last part of DMC3 and most of the anime and DMC5 Dante isn't just like "oh yeah, let them get some good hits to make this interesting", Dante fights like he should fight, he mocks the enemy but doesn't underestimate them, his fight with Sid is a great example of what happens when he lets his own power get to his head, he got his ass stomped in the first round.

Manga and Pre DT Dante suffer from this, because of his experience with Gilver and then the dozens of Black Knights sent after him he believes himself to be unstoppable, this is proven right and wrong at the same time in the manga when the SIN overpowers his ass and then he goes through another transformation to save himself.

Now about DMC4, Dante has come from DMC2 and Vol2, his power is at his peak and constantly growing and he knows this. The quotes are to show he let his power get to his head and it's making him reckless, underestimating enemies left and right (something only done by his young self and the anime version once) and letting everyone get a hit just to make his job more entertaining. People say that he would fight seriously if he found someone on his level but that's false, he would let the fight go on as long as possible and do everything in his power to amuse himself, proof of this is the whole plot of DMC4, a whole situation that could have gone horribly wrong along with the permanent death of Nero (if Yamato didn't work on the savior), all because he was bored and wanted to see some action.

Yeah, he relies on his sense but his arrogance and overconfidence in his own power makes that a moot point.

 

[Lightning_XXI]

Not really, Dante uses his supernatural senses quite normally, same as his other physical senses like sight, hearing or smell etc. The guys is highly attuned to supernatural. Even on random mundane objects the guy tries to read aura and magic energy. Its shown in games to where depictions are hardest. In novels its even more blatant.
Hell I remember the novels saying Dante constantly relies on his enhanced olfactory sense to track his enemies like some sort of dog. Its as in character for him to rely on his senses to observer and analyze his enemies just as we in real life try to use our normal senses to study something.

Having examples of them being used isn't really my point, but what the actual extent of these abilities would mean if they were ALWAYS on display, face the facts, if the writers were 100% serious and careful with such sensing, he would know he didn't stand a chance against Urizen, even in Devil Trigger, he would know V's intentions to fuse himself to Urizen at the beggining because he senses danger, stuff like that

It is irrelevant anyway so I'll drop this here, I don't have intentions on going against any sense

The point is he allows himself to get hit. Which doesn't happen in 5. But it's quite rampant in 3 and 4. But even then it's driven by curiosity or tactics to make his enemies reveal their tricks or fool them. 4 makes even that clear. Obviously there's enjoyment in battle to be had as well. But yeah even at his most arrogant Dante isn't dumb so this is a very niche weakness for him, you can see why.

In 4 said quotes about him getting hit are mostly in the Novel, which gets far more in details about his personal fights while the games have less quotes and leaves to the player handle Dante's performance, thing is, while he may be a bit more serious, he doesn't really show a big difference between him in 4 and him in 5, with the exception of "being hit" and the actual presence of a threat, he is the same as 4. Having fun in fights, while a very little and minor thing, can be exploited as a weakness

I think we will get into terms easier if we actually write the draft for his weakness section, allow me to do the first try

Weaknesses: None notable (His overconfidence and arrogance are stated to be a mere tactic to lower his enemies defenses) | Overconfident (Barely takes his work seriously and doesn't really care about demons besides killing them for his own pleasure, lets himself get impaled just for the sake of a good battle, leaving him open for attacks from time to time | None Notable (Takes his job more seriously after his first defeat by the hands of Vergil and accepting his legacy) | None Notable | None Notable | None Notable | None Notable | None Notable | Very Overconfident on his abilities, usually letting himself get hit and avoiding using his own full power to make his fights last for a while | Somewhat retains his cool and laidback approach in battle, but is far more precise and careful in it comes to damage and overall fights

Novel 1 | Pre DT | Post DT | POC | DMC1 | Anime | DMC2 and Novel | DMC4 | DMC5

Please note that this is just a quick draft, so we can start working the text

Now, I know the Anime is between 1 and 2, games that feature the most serious Dantes out there, but he actually goes easy most of the time and is damaged multiple times, so I guess some sort of Weakness could be there

 

[Mister6ame6]

Guys, guys, you are thinking that DMC3 and 4 Dante act the same as the novels or like in 5.

In DMC1, Vol2, last part of DMC3 and most of the anime and DMC5 Dante isn't just like "oh yeah, let them get some good hits to make this interesting", Dante fights like he should fight, he mocks the enemy but doesn't underestimate them, his fight with Sid is a great example of what happens when he lets his own power get to his head, he got his ass stomped in the first round.

Dante holding back against Sid is english only, he only mention that he is gonna pay what he have done when they fought for the second time.

Manga and Pre DT Dante suffer from this, because of his experience with Gilver and then the dozens of Black Knights sent after him he believes himself to be unstoppable, this is proven right and wrong at the same time in the manga when the SIN overpowers his ass and then he goes through another transformation to save himself.

The Sin attacks in the manga and the game was basically out of nowhere imo, i won't use that to say he was holding back since they caught him by surprise. Dante have a weird match against Hell Vanguard but idk about if Dante was holding back since he is stated to be feared in the entire of the DW, so he is probably something to macth Dante in the early of the game.

Now about DMC4, Dante has come from DMC2 and Vol2, his power is at his peak and constantly growing and he knows this. The quotes are to show he let his power get to his head and it's making him reckless, underestimating enemies left and right (something only done by his young self and the anime version once) and letting everyone get a hit just to make his job more entertaining.

He only mention that he let his opponent hit him ''sometimes'' not every single time, this is backed by him not letting Assault and Blitz hit him in the novel, so you are half wrong on that.

 

[RedReaper]

Bump.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Dante holding back against Sid is english only, he only mention that he is gonna pay what he have done when they fought for the second time.

I never said he was holding back, he underestimated his ass and paid the price. Why? Because of his power, he didn't think there was anything that could challenge him.

The Sin attacks in the manga and the game was basically out of nowhere imo, i won't use that to say he was holding back since they caught him by surprise. Dante have a weird match against Hell Vanguard but idk about if Dante was holding back since he is stated to be feared in the entire of the DW, so he is probably something to macth Dante in the early of the game.

"out of nowhere" doesn't cut it, Dante has several feats of danger sense and IR to just say "lul surprise attack". Like I said in the OP, he lets demons hit him, there is also Arkham flipping his table and Dante saw it coming miles ahead and just let him do it.

He only mention that he let his opponent hit him ''sometimes'' not every single time, this is backed by him not letting Assault and Blitz hit him in the novel, so you are half wrong on that.

Yet he let them do their thing, playing with them, dragging a fight as long as he could just to get fun. That's still part of the weakness.

snip

I like the draft. Keep the strawberry sundays, the guy went on a rampage in the CD drama because he didn't get his ice cream, also there is the DMC3 Manga pages that talk about the hedonistic thing, it also mentions how he is kinda suicidal (I think someone linked them in the server).

 

[Sevil Natas]

bump

 

[Lightning_XXI]

Bump

More opinions on the draft, if possible

 

[RedReaper]

Bump

More opinions on the draft, if possible

Looks fine to me, but I'm no expert.

 

[Sevil Natas]

so is this concluded? or do we need staff input even in such a small CRT?

 

[Mister6ame6]

I never said he was holding back, he underestimated his ass and paid the price. Why? Because of his power, he didn't think there was anything that could challenge him.

He never underestimated Abigail's powers, is nowere stated that he did, you gonna need have proof for that.

"out of nowhere" doesn't cut it, Dante has several feats of danger sense and IR to just say "lul surprise attack". Like I said in the OP, he lets demons hit him, there is also Arkham flipping his table and Dante saw it coming miles ahead and just let him do it.

You know that this stuff is not really 100% consistently my boy, sometimes haxed characters abilitis are forgotem by the devs, not to mention that they are in another dimension, we need proof that Dante can sense people from another dimension on this key.

Yet he let them do their thing, playing with them, dragging a fight as long as he could just to get fun. That's still part of the weakness.

Yeap, just sometimes, not every single time, with is my point, just write properly in the profile. That's all i'm asking.

About the draft

Just link the DF scan in DMC3 keys and onwards since is talking about his average day of demon hunting and explain that he can take things serius if he needed, and that he often study about demons, so he knows that some of them are capable when he let then hit him.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

He never underestimated Abigail's powers, is nowere stated that he did, you gonna need have proof for that.

You don't need a statement when we have visual proof. He shows up, shoots his ass and tries to leave only to get stomped to hell and back. That's the definition of underestimating someone.

You know that this stuff is not really 100% consistently my boy, sometimes haxed characters abilitis are forgotem by the devs, not to mention that they are in another dimension, we need proof that Dante can sense people from another dimension on this key.

Except they used that when Lady finds his "dead" father and shots Dante from behind. He let himself get impaled, you can easily see by how he carries himself during and after it happens that he fully expected it, he just didn't care.

Yeap, just sometimes, not every single time, with is my point, just write properly in the profile. That's all i'm asking.

Not sometimes, he did it in all of DMC4 and Nero almost died for real along with many civilian casualties, he did it in the first part of DMC3 and you see how that ended (with him having a katana and a claymore through his chest and almost dying)

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

You don't need a statement when we have visual proof. He shows up, shoots his ass and tries to leave only to get stomped to hell and back. That's the definition of underestimating someone.

Nah.
Dante was pissed even before he entered the building. You have an annoying fodder demon who keeps eluding you, who uses Dante's ward and her mother as hostages( who happen to be descendants of some legendary alchemist) to gain power of a demon king lvl demon and is currently raining hell on entire city. Dante was beyond pissed, you can see it on his face and demeanor with his murderous glee and how he literally eviscerated Sid with his guns by shooting in anger untill nothing but a puddle of blood is left.
What he didn't count on was Sid surviving, transformimg and kicking his ass back because he was stronger than Dante.
You think he would have "died" without giving a good fight to Abigail??

This event Dante definitely wasn't playing around.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

he did it in the first part of DMC3 and you see how that ended (with him having a katana and a claymore through his chest and almost dying

Against Vergil in first fight, do you really think he would have faltered or stopped being sassy or faught weakly just because he knew Vergil was stronger??
Hell no, he was suicidal and excited but he didn't underestimate Vergil, we can see how engrossed they are in fight and how hard it is for Dante to barely keep up even when he is giving it his best.

 

[Mister6ame6]

You don't need a statement when we have visual proof. He shows up, shoots his ass and tries to leave only to get stomped to hell and back. That's the definition of underestimating someone.

Except they used that when Lady finds his "dead" father and shots Dante from behind. He let himself get impaled, you can easily see by how he carries himself during and after it happens that he fully expected it, he just didn't care.

Gilver already debunked this, so not going to just repeat his arguments.

Not sometimes, he did it in all of DMC4 and Nero almost died for real along with many civilian casualties,

Is called PIS my boy, Dante literary mention in the novel that he was too late to destroy the Hell Gates and stop the demons invasion before they go after the civilians in Fortuna, a guy with immeasurable speed is complaining that he can reach the Hell Gates in the time? Despite being massively more faster than anything in the verse.

Not to mention that he also says that he tries to avoid as many as deaths as possible in the novel. Is Dante really that arrogant when we also have statements like that?

 

[Sevil Natas]

bump

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

snip

LMAO no, this is Dante being pissed off. This is one of the very few times Dante is MAD, bloodlusted and really going for the absolute end of his enemy and after that we rarely have those. Here he is pissed off at trish, here he is bloodlusted against Vergil, he gets pissed with V for using Vergil as bait and finally Chen because of his copied skills.

Anime Dante wasn't pissed, he was relaxed (and considering his reasons why, it's fair for him but it still proved my point) and tired of leaving Sid run away. For starters Sid wasn't annoying or eluding him, yes he was showing up at unexpected places but as Dante himself tells him at the end "I kinda like you". He was having fun watching Sid do his shit and both of them acknowledge this when Sid asks him to let him live again, like he has done several times in the past and Dante refuses because this time he ****** up big time.

Sid even tells him he is going to show him the power of Abigail and Dante just ignores him, shots and when he is trying to leave Sid grabs him and the fight starts again, Dante is caught by surprise and while he tries to defend himself we know how that ended. Certainly we don't know how long the fight went or if being caught by surprise had anything to do with it or just Dante underestimating him further but we know the result and its Dante impaled and unconscious in hell.

All in all Dante underestimated Sid even after being told he had the powers of a great demon lord just to get his ass stomped. (Also this is a good feat for Dante having dimensional travel as he left hell on his own, after Patty and the portal she made were gone).

Against Vergil in first fight, do you really think he would have faltered or stopped being sassy or faught weakly just because he knew Vergil was stronger??
Hell no, he was suicidal and excited but he didn't underestimate Vergil, we can see how engrossed they are in fight and how hard it is for Dante to barely keep up even when he is giving it his best.

I was talking in general for DMC3, from mission 1 to 7, not just the last fight. Still he was being overly cocky and arrogant even when he was getting destroyed by Vergil and it ended with him almost dead.

snip

Ignoring the speed arguments because it often falls in the fallacy territory, Dante was there for a while and got reports from Trish from time to time, even when he made it to the island he had time to actually go and do all that shit but once again he underestimated the whole group and only went for the vicar.

Not to mention that he also says that he tries to avoid as many as deaths as possible in the novel. Is Dante really that arrogant when we also have statements like that?

This happens after shit hit the fan, not before it. Something he could have avoided easily but like I said, he was overconfident in his abilities only for things to get out of hand hard.

 

[Reploidnoridomix]

come on,it just a weakness and it haven't done the debate...

 

[Sevil Natas]

bump. have there been any conclusions here?