Questioning the validity of tier 8 DC characters

[Antvasima]

I agree with Momo that 8-A Deadpool and Captain America is very exaggerated.

 

[KLOL506]

Then again, most of Marvel's low-tier feats are no different.

 

[Antvasima]

Withstanding a nuclear explosion would be a massive outlier for either Deadpool or Captain America. Our profiles are currently very exaggerated and unreliable, and give our wiki a very bad reputation.

 

[KLOL506]

True.

Also, what I meant by my upper comment was that most of the dura feats of the lower-tier characters would be no less exaggerated. They're also bordering on outliers.

And with them frequently appearing every now and then, this makes it even tougher for us to accurately gauge a proper tier for them.

 

[Antvasima]

We need to find something more reliable to scale from.

Spider-Man's greatest AP feat is likely when he supported a skyscraper.

 

[Cropfist]

When did our reputation matter for rating how strong characters are?

 

[Antvasima]

It is the opposite way around. If we feature lots of very unreliable highly popular profiles, our reputation suffers, and being a perfectionist who wants our profiles to be reliable, that is a concern to me.

 

[Cropfist]

There are far worse cases of popular pages or verses having highly contested stats here.

Plus, it is already hard to find good comments about this wiki on anywhere else.

 

[Antvasima]

That is true, but I understand Marvel pretty well, and it is also very popular, so I would like to try to help fix the pages.

 

[The_Impress]

Actually, shouldn't the Batman page be updated to accomodate Mr. Bambu's calculations of PC Batman as Large Builiding+, since it is an accepted calc? As of now he is listed 8-C (Building Level)

 

[Mr._Redic]

Those are just the explosions themselves, they don't really show how close Batman was to the epicenter.

 

[Antvasima]

Mr. Redic is correct.

 

[Therefir]

Who is the person in the middle of this explosio? Is not Batman?

 

[KLOL506]

Those are just the explosions themselves, they don't really show how close Batman was to the epicenter.

Not exactly.

In the scan that Therefir showed, Batman was caught in the explosion by the time he said the word "Detective".

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I think that it should still be calculated how much of the energy of the explosion that he and other characters have been hit with.

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

I hate to butt in and all, but that's one feat out of how many?

I get that "consistency" within Marvel and DC is difficult to establish, but if we only have one, two, three or even four feats within one tier out of the countless dozens of showings that exist for each character, that isn't consistent enough to use. Especially in the case of Batman-level characters who are constantly portrayed as being threatened by lesser things.

 

[KLOL506]

Well, I think that it should still be calculated how much of the energy of the explosion that he and other characters have been hit with.

As far as the image shows, he was right in the middle of it.

 

[KLOL506]

And that's one feat out of how many?
"Consistency" within Marvel and DC is difficult to establish and all, but if we only have one, two, three or even four feats within one tier out of the countless dozens of showings that exist for each character, that isn't consistent enough to use. Especially in the case of Batman-level characters who are constantly portrayed as being threatened by lesser things.

Doesn't mean we just downgrade them to 9-C or lower.

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

No, we simply downgrade them to the tier they're consistently portrayed as.

 

[Antvasima]

@KLOL506

Explosions are still spread omnidirectionally, not towards a single target.

@MrKingOfNegativity

Yes. DC and especially Marvel are extremely inconsistent on that point. I also think that we likely rate many of the low level superheroes comicbooks characters far too high.

However, we still need feats that are less outlier-ish to scale from.

 

[KLOL506]

@KLOL506
Explosions are still spread omnidirectionally, not towards a single target.

@MrKingOfNegativity

Yes. DC and especially Marvel are extremely inconsistent on that point. I also think that we likely rate the low level superhero comicbooks characters too high.

King does have a point, but what if even then they get threatened with things more consistent than that which puts them absurdly too low?

Again, consistency. You never know when a low-but-consistent feat gets trumped by a lower-but-more-consistent feat.

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

Obviously we're not going to be downgrading Batman to bullet-level when he consistently does things like kicking trees in half and damaging rocket-launcher-proof glass.

In fact, you're really overselling the "too low" aspect in this case, since Batman's suit is confirmed to withstand sniper fire (IIRC) and has blocked 9-C piercing weapons several times.

 

[KLOL506]

Eh, rockets and bullets in fiction tend to be generally overpowered compared to real-life ones when they are consistent enough to be used. (Obviously not talking about High 1-B bullets).

Batman would still be solid 9-A via most of his feats tho. He's regularly seen busting metal gates, blast doors and whatnot, and weaker villains like Deadshot can get 9-B+ just by casually slamming someone into a wall.

 

[Hellbeast1]

@Klol Why did I immediately imagine AC having High 1-B billets when you said that?

 

[KLOL506]

@Klol Why did I immediately imagine Marvel having High 1-B bullets when you said that?

FTFY

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

******* Living Tribunal level guns. Just what everyone needs.

 

[Antvasima]

We generally try to scale them from the higher feats that are not complete outliers. The current Low 7-C and 8-A Marvel characters are rated far too high, and the 8-C DC characters are also rather doubtful, although to a considerably lesser degree.

 

[KLOL506]

9-A for Batman seems more consistent to me IMHO.

And High 8-C Marvel doesn't seem too bad either, but Sera is planning to revise Marvel after all, so let's keep that for another thread.

We still don't have a calc for snapping trees in half. There's only a calc for blowing up one.

 

[KLOL506]

******* Living Tribunal level guns. Just what everyone needs.

Brave of you to assume we don't have a High 1-B baton in the MCU named after the guy kek

 

[Antvasima]

So, should we try to get something constructive done here, and try to find reasonably high level feats (that are not outliers) to scale the low level Marvel and DC characters from? Although it might be best if MrKingOfNegativity starts a new content revision thread for that, after which we close this one.

 

[KLOL506]

We'll have to start looking for feats first.

 

[Antvasima]

Yes. Help is appreciated.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Deadpool does have several 8-A feats iirc, so I don't think that's entirely off the table; but I'm fine of people still feel that's too high. Spiderman's Low 7-C feat on the other hand, I did here there are numerous flaws with the calc. Not even sure what indicated he moved Hulk at Massively Hypersonic speeds. Then again, comic book character speeds are quite a bit harder to calc than animated and video game characters due to lack of cinematics. But yeah, the "Peak humans" and lighter Superhumans should still be well into Tier 8. 9-A for Batman also does seem more consistent for Batman I can agree.

 

[KLOL506]

The values aren't being questioned tho, it's the consistency.

 

[Antvasima]

I think that 8-A is far too high for all the Deadpool level characters, yes.

 

[Hellbeast1]

I agree with 8-A for Pool and Cap but Aldo agree with the Spider-Man downgrade (at least 8-A I'd suggest)

 

[KLOL506]

I myself have no problems with Marvel low-tiers being 8-A (Since I'm pretty damn sure it's more consistent than the lesser things they have been threatened with and most of the time they were never for plot convenience, but Low 7-C is a straight-up no unless we can find more nuke feats that are hilariously on par with Spidey, because they aren't) but if that must be changed so be it.

But Sera still has her threads in planning so it would be advisable to wait until then. Maybe opinions could be turned in the tide.

Also, Ant, we actually get rebuked more for our ratings of Superman and for Goku, Naruto, Ichigo and the like, not for the low-tiers of Marvel. That's a side no one generally bothers to make arguments about at all, so to speak.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I know about Marvel and DC quite well, and the inconsistency of our ratings bother me.

I have also seen quite a lot of criticism about them outside of the wiki.

 

[KLOL506]

I have seen the criticisms too, but they're nowhere near the level of criticism Planet level Naruto receives. Hell, not even Goku's criticisms have any answer for the criticism against our HST profiles.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, in the Naruto case we have actually done extensive research, and the series is far more coherent, and as such easier to evaluate. Marvel on the other hand is very unreliable in its current state. Captain America, Deadpool, etcetera are more consistently at best 8-C, and Spider-Man High 8-C.