Questioning the validity of tier 8 DC characters

[KLOL506]

Not sure they were exactly poor writing. Deadpool consistently tanks stuff of that level. Exploding skyscrapers included.

 

[KLOL506]

Spider-Man has not remotely completely destroyed all components of a skyscraper...

Yes, I know, but that's not my point. My point is that he's fought against opponents who have or opponents who tanked an exploding skyscraper.

 

[KLOL506]

Either way, we still lack a calc for shattering skyscrapers and making them topple.

Aaaaaaaaaaand we're derailing, as the Spidey-Cap thing should be on a Marvel thread, not a DC one.

 

[Antvasima]

Tanking a nuclear explosion is a massive outlier for a character that is consistently harmed by enormously less.

Anyway, here is the skyscraper calculation: http://www.narutoforums.com/xfa-blo...-man-catches-and-lifts-the-daily-bugle.22392/

I am extremely busy, and do not have the time to constantly argue with you, but currently a lot of our Marvel profiles are horribly unreliable. I would appreciate if we could all get past our biases to get as high statistics as possible, even if they do not make any sense. They give our wiki a very bad reputation.

 

[Antvasima]

Never mind, the link doesn't work anymore. Here is the backup:

https://web.archive.org/web/2016050...-man-catches-and-lifts-the-daily-bugle.22392/

It doesn't seem to list the energy involved though, so that would preferably need to be calculated by somebody.

 

[KLOL506]

Never said anything about arguing tho or showing bias for higher statistics, I was just talking about consistency. If I did anything to insult, do forgive me.

I'm all in for a downgrade tho if we can gather proper evidence. The Low 7-C feat does look kinda sketchy to my eyes.

 

[KLOL506]

But either way, we should be discussing about Marvel in a Marvel thread, not a DC thread.

Speaking of Marvel, any idea on when Sera will return?

 

[KLOL506]

Never mind, the link doesn't work anymore. Here is the backup:
https://web.archive.org/web/2016050...-man-catches-and-lifts-the-daily-bugle.22392/

It doesn't seem to list the energy involved though, so that would preferably need to be calculated by somebody.

Hmmmmmmmm, you're right. It only shows his lifting strength.

 

[KLOL506]

That calc also has the comments linking to a few more feats.

 

[Antvasima]

I have asked Mr. Bambu to calculate the Spider-Man feat. If Antoniofer is willing to handle it, that would also be appreciated.

Anyway, yes, we should discuss this elsewhere.

I think that Sera will return sometime next month or so, but I am not well informed.

 

[Antvasima]

Here are some people that you should preferably ask to comment here, as they know Marvel and DC quite well:

Matthew Schroeder, Sandman31, Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot, Reppuzan, Hykuu, Shivansh Garg, Zensum, TheC2, Nether nine, Crimson Azoth, Eficiente, Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan, The Archdemon.

So, about this...

 

[KLOL506]

Here are a few feats I found for Spidey and his enemies.

1

2

3

I will take them to a few calc members to have them checked out.

They will serve nicely for the Marvel thread.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

 

[Hellbeast1]

@Klol if memory serves he only dodged lightning in Rebirth but Bane did fight Black Lightening iirc and presumably reacted to his attacks, there's also Batman:Odyssey and other stuff claiming Bruce sees bullets in slow mo. (I'll bring scans later)

 

[AguilaR101]

It's actually a problem that so many of these are explosions, those are reliant on Batman being caught in the direct epicenter of them for him to scale, the ones where his batwing blow up seem to look like that, but the larger ones don't show his final position before the bomb detonates.

Are we sure batman was right at the epicenter when the larger explosions happened? Most of the calcs seem to omit adding this info to them.

 

[Antvasima]

That is a good point.

 

[Hellbeast1]

Hmm a fair point (I shall attempt to gather more context for the necessary calcs)

 

[KLOL506]

As far as I can see, he was in the epicenter, since he ends up walking away from quite a couple of them.

 

[Antvasima]

Here is an accepted calculation for Batman's durability:

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Mr._Bambu/DC_Calc:_More_Batman_Explosions#Image Two

 

[KLOL506]

That's Post-Crisis tho.

Anyway, Post-Flashpoint Batman also got his school calc accepted by Bambu.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Kep also did some Batman explosion calcs that got 9-A / 8-C.

 

[Ryukama]

I also think that this seems suspicious to scale from, much like the Low 7-C Spider-Man feat due to moving the Hulk at great speed, and think that both should preferably be revised.

Yeah kinetic energy calcs from people moving things at high speeds seems to have been exaggerating profile's statistics. If these characters have other feats at these tiers though then fine.

 

[KLOL506]

Kep also did some Batman explosion calcs that got 9-A / 8-C.

Hmmmmm, mind on giving a few links?

 

[Antvasima]

Did anybody ask the following members to comment yet?

Sandman31, Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot, Reppuzan, Shivansh Garg, Zensum, TheC2, Nether nine, Crimson Azoth, Eficiente, Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan, The Archdemon.

It would be very nice if we could finally get the blatantly inaccurate Marvel and DC profiles revised. They are one of the biggest reasons for our bad reputation.

 

[AguilaR101]

bump.

 

[Kepekley23]

A vast majority of these explosion calcs fail to account for the fact that the majority of the explosion escapes and only a fraction is absorbed by the body, which is why an explosion doesn't just dissipate after hitting a person.

 

[AguilaR101]

Yeah kinetic energy calcs from people moving things at high speeds seems to have been exaggerating profile's statistics. If these characters have other feats at these tiers though then fine.

Should I modify the OP so this topic is included in it as well?

As far as I can tell, Spiderman's tier suffers from the same issues, he is reliant on a KE calculation and the only other supportive feat on that tier is from an explosion. While it was calced to be on the same level, the blog where it's calculated it don't provide the parameters ( surface area of the characters who resisted it and their distance to the point of origi) necessary for one to scale the character to the totality of the explosion.

 

[Antvasima]

A vast majority of these explosion calcs fail to account for the fact that the majority of the explosion escapes and only a fraction is absorbed by the body, which is why an explosion doesn't just dissipate after hitting a person.

That is true. I would greatly appreciate your help with checking up and redoing the Marvel and DC Comics explosion calculations.

 

[IvoryAS]

Bump just in case you guys aren't busy.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, the tier 8 and 7 DC and Marvel characters still definitely need to be revised at some point.

 

[Kepekley23]

I also think that rating characters based off of a handful of feats is not enough. Normally, for other franchises, that is more than consistent enough to warrant a good upgrade, but Marvel Comics and DC have spanned pretty much three thirds of a century worth of writing, dozens, if not hundreds of writers, and tens of thousands of different showings and feats.

We should try and analyze them in-depth and get what is average "impressive and consistent" type of feat, not get 1 8-A feat and scale every single, every single character off of it when everything else is 8-C or 9-A - or 7-C when everything else is 8-C at best.

No specific examples, just a general one.

 

[Hellbeast1]

I'd the 8-A comment in reference to Marvel or DC? In Marvel's case there's like 3 or 4 of em abd DC has mostly 8-C feats

 

[Antvasima]

I agree with Kepekley about Marvel and DC. Our current statistics are likely very unreliable. At least for Marvel. The DC pages have mostly seemed to shaped up, but I may be overoptimistic in that regard.

I don't know if it is realistic though, given how extremely dense both franchises are to get into, and our limited number of members who understand them well.

 

[Mr._Redic]

Batman's explosion feats don't look like they were at the epicenter, greatly reducing the damage done to him, and the KE calculations for Katana and Spider-Man both seem like outliers in comparison to their more consistent feats throughout the decades putting "normal" DC characters around 9-A, and 8-C to High 8-C for low-end superhuman Marvel characters like Deadpool and Spider-Man.

I mean, even these tiers are ridiculous when you realize Batman hits and tanks harder than an actual tank, overinflating it even beyond that seems unnecessary.

 

[Antvasima]

I am personally inclined to agree, but we need to somehow organise these revisions in practice with reliable calculated feats.

 

[Cropfist]

I mean, even these tiers are ridiculous when you realize Batman hits and tanks harder than an actual tank, overinflating it even beyond that seems unnecessary.

Incredulity.

 

[AguilaR101]

I don't really disagree with characters being superhuman to such extents, My issue lies with the values of those KE feats seemingly not being supported by anything else. the explosion dura feats can work but as said above they need the additional context necessary for the characters to fully scale to them. so It'd be preferable if someone could provide scans providing context and the position of the characters before and after the explosions to confirm if they do indeed scale to the full yield of such explosions.

 

[Mr._Redic]

Well, the school calc is off beacuse we don't see them next to the explosives when they explode, and we don't know know where he is in relation to the epicenter in these calcs, and both of these problems could be applied to the other linked explosions. The only ones that aren't questionable are the Batplane explosions, but they look like they were a bit smaller than the plane, which is below the 22.2m non-nuclear explosion threshold for building level, and they were moving, so determing exact paramters for even these explosions would be hard.

 

[Momo_is_a_Deviluke]

Nah, Cap regularly knocks down Deadpool who is 8-A via several feats to his name. Cap also has feats on that level and has been shown to be impervious to bullets.

The problem with scaling to Deadpool though, is how inconsistent his durability actually is. He come out unharmed in ridiculous situations while also consistently gets injured or by conventional attacks like getting knocked out with a shovel.

I get that his Regenerationn is slow, and him coming out unharm should not be related to it. But I think it's really more of a thing where writers didnt mean to write these for power scaling, so they just completely ignored his durabilities during those situations since he can't die anyway.

idk, I get that this is presumtious and stuff, but I do feel like Deadpool is a poor character to ever be used as a scale.

 

[KLOL506]

Marvel as a whole is inconsistent. Even the bullets there are sometimes OP, or sometimes they don't even dent Wolvie's suit or Cap's skin.