Question regarding Shield Hero (LN) Speed Ratings

[DontTalkDT]

I don't really read the LN, but since the manga seems to more or less follow the WN in the most relevant stuff I thought I would bring this to debate.

In the WN we at some point get into a little debate regarding how useful guns are:

"Guns. It looks like being shot with one of those is no joke." (Naofumi) "Does Iwatani-sama have an interest in guns?" (Queen) "It's not like I don't… I was just thinking of how different this place was to Melromark. I think that you would lose if we waged war." (Naofumi) "Against the guns?" (Queen) The Queen looks over at the weapon shop, and turns her eyes back to me. What is she so curious about? Guns are quite fatal where I come from. "Isn't that right? I mean, won't bows lose against them?" (Naofumi) "I don't think guns are that powerful weapons." (Queen) "… Really?" (Naofumi) "Yes. Quite a few summoned heroes propose them as weapons, but most of their attempts failed." (Queen) So some otherworld Heroes thought they would use their advanced knowledge to cheat? Or something like that? "Why?" (Naofumi) "I think that Hero of the Bow-sama over there understands." (Queen) I call out the spaced-out Itsuki from the carriage. "Itsuki, what do you think about guns?" (Naofumi) "Meaning?" (Itsuki) "The Queen is telling me that they aren't that powerful of a weapon." (Naofumi) "Let's see… if someone of high level uses one, it would be troublesome… I think." (Itsuki) ??? I don't get what he's saying. "Naofumi-san, while this is reality, we also have something called Status, right?" (Itsuki)''' … Hmm? "The conclusion is that firearms probably aren't as powerful as they were in the Heroes world." (Queen) "Bullet speed is also effected by Status, and there are various problems involving reloading, and regulating gunpowder, and the like." (Itsuki) The Queen nods at Itsuki's answer. "Yes, there's the danger of the enemy discharging the bullets with magic, and even if you get to fire, you can't rely too much on the firepower unless your level is high." (Queen) Ah, I see. I neglected taking Status Magic into account, and simply assumed they were stronger. According to Itsuki, the momentum of bullets is also effected by Status. Guns are good because they're supposed to have the same firepower regardless of the wielder. If you take away that point, I guess they aren't as useful as in my world. Hmm, they're letting people practice over there. A child is holding a gun, and aiming at a target. Perhaps she noticed me concentrating my attention. Firo stopped walking. The trigger was pulled. With a bang, the gunpowder burst, and a familiar and unique sound entered my ear. The child threw his arms up from the recoil. … Why is the bullet so slow? I can see it moving. Perhaps at around the same speed as an arrow. From my experience, isn't it supposed to impact almost immediately following the shot? "Using gunpowder, you can definitely accelerate bullets, but the damage isn't particularly high. In comparison to a bow, its maintenance and ammunition costs are higher, so they aren't really used outside of Faubley." (Queen) "So that's how it is." (Naofumi) "And since fire magic can discharge the shells, if you want to attack at long distance, most would use a bow, magic, or a throwing weapon." (Queen) "This is based on my game knowledge, but if you train, you can get quite strong. But I wouldn't call it the strongest weapon or anything." (Itsuki) Itsuki answers without any visible interest. Well, in the Net Games I've played, the treatment of Guns has always been a bit strange. Most of them have the attack power of them fall far behind the sword. Even though this is reality, it is also a Fantasy World. I'm once again reminded of that fact. So bows also have the merit of being easy to restock ammo. And because of all this, gun technology doesn't improve. "So even firearms are subject to status." (Naofumi) "Yes, range is also… if you shoot from too far away, the output drastically drops." (Itsuki) "Does artillery work by the same principle?" (Naofumi) "Yeah, there is research underway towards the development of magic-firing cannons, but it would be much simpler, and quicker, to just cast the magic yourself." (Queen) "I see." (Naofumi) "Artillery and catapults can have quite a bit of output if they're used by people with high levels, so they're often brought forth in war, though." (Queen) They're dependent on user ability. So if a class-upped high-level general were to light the fuse on a cannon, its output would drastically increase. And if Itsuki used one, would it be strong? I think it falls under the bow category. I don't see where Status starts and stops. What's effected by it, and what isn't? It seems a bit complicated. I've been participating in waves as if it were natural, but I never found it strange. Then Bows and other weapons also take effects from Status.
	~ WN Chapter 310​

Basically in the Shield Hero WN Universe Stats > Everything, including physics. In the hands of someone with low stats a weapon can be weaker and slower than it should physics wise be.

So my question is: Is it like this in the LN as well?

The reason this question is important is because the speed stats of the LN profiles are based on the speed of the attacks of people, which would also be subject to stats. Just as a person can fire a subsonic bullet from a gun, in the WN it could also produce subsonic light and lightning. That does mess up speed calcs a lot.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Well...you've successfully baited me. What do you need done, oh powerful consultant.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Well...you've successfully baited me. What do you need done, oh powerful consultant.

Eh, to be honest, this is probably something only the supporters of the verse can help me with. For now it's mostly just a question, that might turn into a revision depending on how it's answered.

I probably should just ping them.

 

[YungManzi]

We aren't at this part in the english version of the LN yet. Coming up in the next few volumes though.

Regardless I don't think this should be used to judge speed ratings. Because if we really nitpick this point. No speed feat can be properly calculated or accounted for, because we won't have a realistic base to judge everything by.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Direct statements could work and anything that isn't directly caused by a character.

The WN just pretty straight up tells you that physics doesn't apply to attack speed, which shouldn't just be disregarded in my opinion. Not at last because it's actually an important plot point in the WN as stats > everything is how they overcome Medea's god cheats.

 

[YungManzi]

Thing is, threre's not a single speed feat not directly caused by a characer.

Only thing we have is running speed and travel statements, but those aren't at all indicative of combat speed. Like, Filo is much faster running speed-wise than a large majority of the cast, but has been speed blitzed on several occasions.

 

[YungManzi]

As far as direct statements go. The High Priest's judgement is stated by Naofumi to be made of photons.

So there's that and Filo's speed being compared to a bullet by Naofumi far before the introduction of guns in Shield Hero, so he's likely judging her by his world's standards.

But again, this hasn't been stated in the LN yet, so we can probably hold it off until it comes up.

 

[YungManzi]

Okay, so in the recent volume, it is indeed stated that weapons stats rely on the status of the person using them (Which makes sense, because in their world, weapons are equip items and not fixed values like IRL weapons)

It's actually mentioned earlier in the Cal Mira wave, but I completely forgot.

This isn't, however, stated to apply to attacks like lightning and beams of light. The scene where the bullet looks slow also doesn't happen.In fact, a lot of it is left out of the LN.

So overall, even with this statement. There's nothing really suggesting that the speed of lighting or light is somehow slower. It's just stated that the usefulness of equip items depend on the person equiped with them, which is obvious.

 

[DontTalkDT]

So there's that and Filo's speed being compared to a bullet by Naofumi far before the introduction of guns in Shield Hero, so he's likely judging her by his world's standards.

I mean, being compared to a bullet is a solid reasoning for speed, as that is by normal bullet standard.

Okay, so in the recent volume, it is indeed stated that weapons stats rely on the status of the person using them (Which makes sense, because in their world, weapons are equip items and not fixed values like IRL weapons)

What's the exact statement? And where they at the gun part equivalent of the WN already?

 

[YungManzi]

I believe they were right there at the gun part equivelent. Because some of the dialogue is there.