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Queen and Wano Sanji scaling: The final AP/Scaling discussion.
- Thread starter Eseseso
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oh my god
Haemoptysis is a result of blood from your lungs being dealt by external damage, dealt by thousands of people throughout fiction
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The inside of the bone is more fragile. The inner tissue there is more squishy than the shell of the bone.
Law's blade phased righ thru her body, bones includes & generates the shockwave from the inside. It's still counts as dura neg imo.
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True, but that doesn't apply to Queen (or Kidd's Punk Corna Dio).
I see your point though.
?
The only time Queen's human part ever got hurt while he was in Zoan/Hybrid was when Base Sanji kicked him in the unprotected mouth when he was in Hybrid form.
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I was referring to when Marco kicked him before Zoro got healthy, but when he and Zoro attacked together, the impact marks are shown on Queen's body but not his actual mouth.
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Ain't no way you're scaling because of impact marks bro
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Guess Franky's motor cycle is Yonko level.
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I've already heard some talk about High 6-A Franky this can't even be used as a joke anymore. Give it a few months it's gonna be a "supporting feat"
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I was talking just about Law. Queen bone-breaker move, he's clear. Kid, idk. People are still argueing about him.
Thanks
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What?
I was saying that Sanji didn't actually kick his mouth when he attacked alongside Zoro.
Sadly I actually have heard people talking about High 6-A Franky, when asides from dura neg he has nothing on that level.
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Honestly it's only possible with Radical Beam RN lol
DaMonkeMan
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I mean if Nami ( through Zeus ) could fry SeraJimbe I bet Franky will get H6A feats soon.
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king tempest and monkeman make sense, even tho i dont mind scaling zoan queen to king and marco
snakeman > g2 > base luffy >= hybrid yamato
now you point it out, this shit feels weird
snakeman > g2 > base luffy >= hybrid yamato
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can you not scale queen above someone equal to 3 homies big mom
like srsly
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I just started that arc recently, watching it’s better.
fire arc so far
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1) You are correct in stating that Queen's Brachio Bomber attack on Big Mom caused significant damage to her skull, while his own skull remained unharmed. This is a testament to his durability and strength, as Big Mom is known to be one of the strongest characters in the One Piece universe. Additionally, as you mentioned, it is worth noting that Queen was able to recover from the injuries inflicted on him by Big Mom relatively quickly, further showcasing his durability and endurance. However, it is important to keep in mind that Big Mom was not in her right state of mind during this confrontation, as she was in her rampaging state known as O-Lin. While this does not necessarily diminish Queen's feat, it is worth considering that Big Mom may not have been at her full power during this fight.
1.5) In terms of comparing Queen's feat to Base Kidd's feats against Big Mom, it is important to note that Kidd was not shown to have caused any significant damage to Big Mom. While he was able to land some blows on her, they did not appear to have any significant impact on her overall strength or durability.
Queen's feat of damaging Big Mom's skull with his Brachio Bomber attack is an impressive display of strength and durability.
2) You make a valid point regarding Queen's reaction to Marco's shockwave attack. While it did cause him to cough up blood and appear to be in significant pain, he was able to recover from the attack relatively quickly and did not suffer any lasting damage. Additionally, as you mentioned, it is important to consider that Queen's reaction to the attack may have been affected by the "dura neg" (short for "durability negation") effect that was present. Therefore, it may not be entirely accurate to downscale Queen's overall power scaling based solely on his reaction to Marco's shockwave attack. While the attack did hurt him, it did not significantly cripple him or cause any lasting damage.
It is worth noting, however, that the shockwave attack was a significant display of Marco's power and should not be dismissed outright. Marco is a highly skilled and powerful fighter, and his ability to generate powerful shockwaves is a testament to his strength.
Overall, while Queen's reaction to Marco's shockwave attack should not be used to downscale his overall power scaling, it is still a significant feat for Marco and showcases his own impressive abilities.
3) You bring up several instances where Queen and Sanji are portrayed as being comparable to their respective counterparts, King and Zoro. These instances demonstrate that Queen and Sanji are powerful fighters in their own right. When it comes to Queen and King, their portrayal as equals is further supported by their teamwork and coordination during their fight against Sanji and Zoro. They were able to work together effectively, complementing each other's strengths and weaknesses in order to create a formidable team.
Their willingness to talk down to Jack, a fellow All Star, suggests a level of confidence and arrogance that is only present in the most powerful and influential members of the Beast Pirates. Similarly Sanji and Zoro's ability to take down Queen and King respectively with their Buso and DJ attacks is a testament to their own strength and abilities. The fact that Sanji was able to save Zoro by blocking Hybrid Queen's attack with his DJ attack is a further showcase of his own impressive power.
Overall the repeated portrayals of Queen and Sanji as comparable to King and Zoro respectively is evidence of their strength and should not be ignored when considering their overall power scaling.
4) You make a good point regarding Queen's implied strength in his confrontation with Apoo. The fact that Apoo would rather fight The Straw Hats than face Queen suggests that he views Queen as a formidable opponent. As you mentioned, Queen dura in his Zoan form would likely be sufficient to withstand Apoo's DF attacks which have been shown to scale to Base Luffy, Kidd and Zoro. The fact that Queen was able to threaten to kill Apoo suggests that he is confident in his own strength and abilities. Given that Apoo is a WG member and has shown himself to be a skilled and powerful fighter, Queen's threat suggests that he believes he would be able to overpower Apoo in combat.
It is difficult to determine the exact extent of Queen's strength based on this one interaction.
4.5) You make another good point regarding Apoo's reaction to Queen compared to his reaction to Base Kidd. The fact that Apoo was not afraid to face Base Kidd but was terrified of Queen (assuming his Zoan form) suggests that Apoo views Queen as a much more formidable opponent than Kidd. This supports the idea that Queen is a powerful fighter, as his reputation and abilities have apparently earned him a level of fear and respect among his fellow pirates. It also suggests that Queen's Zoan form may be particularly intimidating and formidable, further supporting the idea that his AP and dura would be sufficient to take on powerful opponents like Apoo.
5) You bring up an interesting point regarding Sanji's off-screen fight against King and Queen. While we dont have many details about the fight, the fact that Sanji was able to fight them both at the same time suggests that he is a powerful fighter in his own right. The fact that Sanji was bruised and sent flying by both King and Queen's attacks further supports the idea that he was facing powerful opponents. The fact that King was able to hit Sanji off-screen also suggests that King is a formidable opponent with significant strength and speed.
While we dont have a lot of info about the specifics of Sanji's fight with King and Queen, the fact that he was able to hold his own against them and took some powerful hits from them suggests that he is a strong and capable fighter who should not be underestimated. The fact that Queen was able to hurt Sanji in his Zoan Form further supports the idea that Queens AP would he sufficient to take on powerful opponents like Sanji.
6) You make a good point regarding Zoro's view of Zoan Queen and King as powerful threats during the rooftop battle. The fact that Zoro viewed both of them as formidable opponents suggests that they are both powerful fighters with significant strength and abilities. The fact that Zoan Queen stopped Zoro and Luffy from reaching the roof by biting them and throwing them to the ground in his Zoan form further supports the idea that he is a powerful opponent. The fact that Queen was able to use his Zoan form to physically overpower Zoro and Luffy, two powerful and skilled fighters in their own right, suggests that his strength and durability in his Zoan form are significant.
Overall, Zoro's view of Zoan Queen and King as powerful threats, as well as Queen's ability to physically overpower both Zoro and Luffy in his Zoan form, suggest that he is a strong and capable fighter.
7) Good point about Marcos assessment of King and Queen's strength, The fact that Marco himself a powerful and skilled fighter acnowledges that both King and Queen would be difficult to take down even with high High-6A attacks suggests that they are formidable opponents with significant strength and dura.
The fact that Marco mentions both King and Queen specifically, rather than just one or the other, further supports the idea that they are both powerful fighters. Marco's statement about the difficulty of taking down King and Queen further supports the idea that they are strong and capable fighters with significant abilities.
8) While Marco was able to send Base Queen flying, it is worth noting that he was likely using his full strength and that Base Queen is likely weaker than his Hybrid Form. Sanji was able to send Hybrid Queen flying while he was severely tired and injured. Furthermore the fact that Sanji was able to take out Hybrid Queen and force him out of his Hybrid Form with his attack is impressive and further supports the idea. This feat also suggests that Sanji's strength and abilities are not to be underestimated even when he is tired and injured.
Overall, while Marco's feat of sending Base Queen flying is impressive, it is worth considering the context of the situation and the fact that Sanji was able to take out Hybrid Queen with his attack despite being tired and injured.
It is worth noting that the scaling of Queens strength and abilities can be complex and context-depended. While Queen was shown to be terrified of Big Mom and thus likely weaker than her, it is also true that he has displayed impressive feats. Based on the evidence you provided it is reasonable to conclude that Queen should be at Ace level or comparable to Apoo's DF abilities in terms of strength and durability.
It is also important to consider the full range of his abilities as well as the context in which he has demonstrated his strength, in order to fully understand his power scaling.
"Now, who scales to this:
1. Queen's Zoan/Hybrid Forms, his Brachio Launcher, and his Vinsmoke weaponry.
2. Onigashima Raid DJ Sanji, and everything that post-Exoskeleton Sanji has. Yes, his Base Exoskeleton has no feats (yet) without DJ, but his AP should scale to his base durability, which was unharmed by Hybrid Queen's sword strike."
1) • High Tier characters like Luffy, Zoro, and Sanji those versions (Post Exoskeleton, Enma, and Ryou respectively) could potentially scale to Queen's Zoan/Hybrid Forms.
• Other Top Tier characters like Marco, Big Mom, Kaido, and possibly even Yamato (depending on their full strength) could also scale to Queen's forms.
• It's possible that high level characters with advanced armament and observation haki such as Rayleigh, Shanks or The Admirals could also be able to match or surpass Queen's power.
• It's worth noting that Queen's Brachio Launcher and Vinsmoke Weaponry are not necessarily indicative of his overall power, as they are more likely technological enhancements rather than natural abilities. Therefore, characters with advanced technology or knowledge, such as Franky or Vegapunk could potentially counter or even surpass Queen's weaponry
"Who does NOT scale:
1. Base King w/o his sword, as he only clashed with Base Sanji, and his Base is only portrayed as comparable to Hybrid Queen with his Marco-level sword.
2. Base Onigashima Raid Sanji, as while he clashed with Hybrid Queen, he was being clearly overwhelmed until he used Diable Jambe.
3. Base Queen: Nothing to put him on this level, and he got ragdolled by Marco's kick.
4. Monster Point Chopper: Yes he hurt Queen and fought him for 30 minutes off-screen, so that's good enough for downscaling, but Queen was very clearly messing around and had a clear advantage.
5. Base Post-Mink Medicine Zoro with no Buso Haki: Yes he blocked a Danmaku from King that sliced Zoan Queen's hide, but he was sent flying by it, so he would downscale from this at most."
1) Correct, Base King without his sword has not shown any feats to suggest he scales to the level of Zoan Queen or Raid Sanji. He only clashed with Base Sanji and was evenly matched, but that does not put him on the same levek as the other two.
2) Yes it's true that Base Onigashima Raid Sanji was being overwhelmed by Hybrid Queen until he used DJ. His feats im his base form are not on the same level as Queen's Zoan/Hybrid forms or his Brachi Launcher.
3) Understood and obviously
4) Correct, while Chopper managed to hurt Zoan Queen and fight him for a significant amount of time off-screen, it was also clear that Queen was not taking the fight seriously and was toying with Chopper. As such, it's difficult to accurately scales Chopper's strength from this encounter.
5) Correct, without his Busoshoku Haki, Base Post-Mink Medicine Zoro would not scale to the level of Zoan King and Queen. While he did block a Danmaku attack from King that sliced through Zoan's Queen hide, he was still sent flying by the attack, indicating that he is not on the same level as Zoan King and Queen.
Sorry for the big wall of text guys
1.5) In terms of comparing Queen's feat to Base Kidd's feats against Big Mom, it is important to note that Kidd was not shown to have caused any significant damage to Big Mom. While he was able to land some blows on her, they did not appear to have any significant impact on her overall strength or durability.
Queen's feat of damaging Big Mom's skull with his Brachio Bomber attack is an impressive display of strength and durability.
2) You make a valid point regarding Queen's reaction to Marco's shockwave attack. While it did cause him to cough up blood and appear to be in significant pain, he was able to recover from the attack relatively quickly and did not suffer any lasting damage. Additionally, as you mentioned, it is important to consider that Queen's reaction to the attack may have been affected by the "dura neg" (short for "durability negation") effect that was present. Therefore, it may not be entirely accurate to downscale Queen's overall power scaling based solely on his reaction to Marco's shockwave attack. While the attack did hurt him, it did not significantly cripple him or cause any lasting damage.
It is worth noting, however, that the shockwave attack was a significant display of Marco's power and should not be dismissed outright. Marco is a highly skilled and powerful fighter, and his ability to generate powerful shockwaves is a testament to his strength.
Overall, while Queen's reaction to Marco's shockwave attack should not be used to downscale his overall power scaling, it is still a significant feat for Marco and showcases his own impressive abilities.
3) You bring up several instances where Queen and Sanji are portrayed as being comparable to their respective counterparts, King and Zoro. These instances demonstrate that Queen and Sanji are powerful fighters in their own right. When it comes to Queen and King, their portrayal as equals is further supported by their teamwork and coordination during their fight against Sanji and Zoro. They were able to work together effectively, complementing each other's strengths and weaknesses in order to create a formidable team.
Their willingness to talk down to Jack, a fellow All Star, suggests a level of confidence and arrogance that is only present in the most powerful and influential members of the Beast Pirates. Similarly Sanji and Zoro's ability to take down Queen and King respectively with their Buso and DJ attacks is a testament to their own strength and abilities. The fact that Sanji was able to save Zoro by blocking Hybrid Queen's attack with his DJ attack is a further showcase of his own impressive power.
Overall the repeated portrayals of Queen and Sanji as comparable to King and Zoro respectively is evidence of their strength and should not be ignored when considering their overall power scaling.
4) You make a good point regarding Queen's implied strength in his confrontation with Apoo. The fact that Apoo would rather fight The Straw Hats than face Queen suggests that he views Queen as a formidable opponent. As you mentioned, Queen dura in his Zoan form would likely be sufficient to withstand Apoo's DF attacks which have been shown to scale to Base Luffy, Kidd and Zoro. The fact that Queen was able to threaten to kill Apoo suggests that he is confident in his own strength and abilities. Given that Apoo is a WG member and has shown himself to be a skilled and powerful fighter, Queen's threat suggests that he believes he would be able to overpower Apoo in combat.
It is difficult to determine the exact extent of Queen's strength based on this one interaction.
4.5) You make another good point regarding Apoo's reaction to Queen compared to his reaction to Base Kidd. The fact that Apoo was not afraid to face Base Kidd but was terrified of Queen (assuming his Zoan form) suggests that Apoo views Queen as a much more formidable opponent than Kidd. This supports the idea that Queen is a powerful fighter, as his reputation and abilities have apparently earned him a level of fear and respect among his fellow pirates. It also suggests that Queen's Zoan form may be particularly intimidating and formidable, further supporting the idea that his AP and dura would be sufficient to take on powerful opponents like Apoo.
5) You bring up an interesting point regarding Sanji's off-screen fight against King and Queen. While we dont have many details about the fight, the fact that Sanji was able to fight them both at the same time suggests that he is a powerful fighter in his own right. The fact that Sanji was bruised and sent flying by both King and Queen's attacks further supports the idea that he was facing powerful opponents. The fact that King was able to hit Sanji off-screen also suggests that King is a formidable opponent with significant strength and speed.
While we dont have a lot of info about the specifics of Sanji's fight with King and Queen, the fact that he was able to hold his own against them and took some powerful hits from them suggests that he is a strong and capable fighter who should not be underestimated. The fact that Queen was able to hurt Sanji in his Zoan Form further supports the idea that Queens AP would he sufficient to take on powerful opponents like Sanji.
6) You make a good point regarding Zoro's view of Zoan Queen and King as powerful threats during the rooftop battle. The fact that Zoro viewed both of them as formidable opponents suggests that they are both powerful fighters with significant strength and abilities. The fact that Zoan Queen stopped Zoro and Luffy from reaching the roof by biting them and throwing them to the ground in his Zoan form further supports the idea that he is a powerful opponent. The fact that Queen was able to use his Zoan form to physically overpower Zoro and Luffy, two powerful and skilled fighters in their own right, suggests that his strength and durability in his Zoan form are significant.
Overall, Zoro's view of Zoan Queen and King as powerful threats, as well as Queen's ability to physically overpower both Zoro and Luffy in his Zoan form, suggest that he is a strong and capable fighter.
7) Good point about Marcos assessment of King and Queen's strength, The fact that Marco himself a powerful and skilled fighter acnowledges that both King and Queen would be difficult to take down even with high High-6A attacks suggests that they are formidable opponents with significant strength and dura.
The fact that Marco mentions both King and Queen specifically, rather than just one or the other, further supports the idea that they are both powerful fighters. Marco's statement about the difficulty of taking down King and Queen further supports the idea that they are strong and capable fighters with significant abilities.
8) While Marco was able to send Base Queen flying, it is worth noting that he was likely using his full strength and that Base Queen is likely weaker than his Hybrid Form. Sanji was able to send Hybrid Queen flying while he was severely tired and injured. Furthermore the fact that Sanji was able to take out Hybrid Queen and force him out of his Hybrid Form with his attack is impressive and further supports the idea. This feat also suggests that Sanji's strength and abilities are not to be underestimated even when he is tired and injured.
Overall, while Marco's feat of sending Base Queen flying is impressive, it is worth considering the context of the situation and the fact that Sanji was able to take out Hybrid Queen with his attack despite being tired and injured.
It is worth noting that the scaling of Queens strength and abilities can be complex and context-depended. While Queen was shown to be terrified of Big Mom and thus likely weaker than her, it is also true that he has displayed impressive feats. Based on the evidence you provided it is reasonable to conclude that Queen should be at Ace level or comparable to Apoo's DF abilities in terms of strength and durability.
It is also important to consider the full range of his abilities as well as the context in which he has demonstrated his strength, in order to fully understand his power scaling.
"Now, who scales to this:
1. Queen's Zoan/Hybrid Forms, his Brachio Launcher, and his Vinsmoke weaponry.
2. Onigashima Raid DJ Sanji, and everything that post-Exoskeleton Sanji has. Yes, his Base Exoskeleton has no feats (yet) without DJ, but his AP should scale to his base durability, which was unharmed by Hybrid Queen's sword strike."
1) • High Tier characters like Luffy, Zoro, and Sanji those versions (Post Exoskeleton, Enma, and Ryou respectively) could potentially scale to Queen's Zoan/Hybrid Forms.
• Other Top Tier characters like Marco, Big Mom, Kaido, and possibly even Yamato (depending on their full strength) could also scale to Queen's forms.
• It's possible that high level characters with advanced armament and observation haki such as Rayleigh, Shanks or The Admirals could also be able to match or surpass Queen's power.
• It's worth noting that Queen's Brachio Launcher and Vinsmoke Weaponry are not necessarily indicative of his overall power, as they are more likely technological enhancements rather than natural abilities. Therefore, characters with advanced technology or knowledge, such as Franky or Vegapunk could potentially counter or even surpass Queen's weaponry
"Who does NOT scale:
1. Base King w/o his sword, as he only clashed with Base Sanji, and his Base is only portrayed as comparable to Hybrid Queen with his Marco-level sword.
2. Base Onigashima Raid Sanji, as while he clashed with Hybrid Queen, he was being clearly overwhelmed until he used Diable Jambe.
3. Base Queen: Nothing to put him on this level, and he got ragdolled by Marco's kick.
4. Monster Point Chopper: Yes he hurt Queen and fought him for 30 minutes off-screen, so that's good enough for downscaling, but Queen was very clearly messing around and had a clear advantage.
5. Base Post-Mink Medicine Zoro with no Buso Haki: Yes he blocked a Danmaku from King that sliced Zoan Queen's hide, but he was sent flying by it, so he would downscale from this at most."
1) Correct, Base King without his sword has not shown any feats to suggest he scales to the level of Zoan Queen or Raid Sanji. He only clashed with Base Sanji and was evenly matched, but that does not put him on the same levek as the other two.
2) Yes it's true that Base Onigashima Raid Sanji was being overwhelmed by Hybrid Queen until he used DJ. His feats im his base form are not on the same level as Queen's Zoan/Hybrid forms or his Brachi Launcher.
3) Understood and obviously
4) Correct, while Chopper managed to hurt Zoan Queen and fight him for a significant amount of time off-screen, it was also clear that Queen was not taking the fight seriously and was toying with Chopper. As such, it's difficult to accurately scales Chopper's strength from this encounter.
5) Correct, without his Busoshoku Haki, Base Post-Mink Medicine Zoro would not scale to the level of Zoan King and Queen. While he did block a Danmaku attack from King that sliced through Zoan's Queen hide, he was still sent flying by the attack, indicating that he is not on the same level as Zoan King and Queen.
Sorry for the big wall of text guys
DaMonkeMan
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I think those are testaments to his Zoan Regen and/or Endurance.
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What were? Because that was only like 25% of Darkvie's post.
DaMonkeMan
He/Him- 17,847
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I don't have the time to read or respond to the rest of it lol.
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Its Essesos fault for making me respond to all of them i cant let all those arguments slide like that without answering
🗣
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Hmm. Since i was writting to much i may have mde some overextent arguments and went for endurance by mistake. Could you point some of them?
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Ohh i see. My bad then since its about AP but i wanted to point some of his impressive feats ngl
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Isn't the Brachio-Bomber scene a huge anti-feat for Big Mom anyway since she shouldn't be harmed by the kinetic energy of a brachiosaurus falling on her from a cliff? I thought we disregarded that.
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The Brachio-Bomber scene is indeed a controversial topic in the community. Some fans argue that its an anti-feat for Big Mom, while others believe that it's a testament to the power of the attack. However it's worth noting that the attack didn't actually harm Big Mom directly, it merely knocked her off the cliff. Whether or not she should be affected by the kinetic energy of a falling Brachiosaurus is up for debate, but it's important to remember that in One Piece, characters can have varying levels of durability and susceptibility to different types of damage.
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Big Mom was at the bottom of the cliff, not the top.
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Ye my bad for that its my mistake there. Therefore the Brachio Bomber feat is not an anti-feat for Big Mom.
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How does Big Mom being at the bottom of the cliff make it not an anti-feat for Big Mom?
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My apologies for the confusion earlier. Yoi are correct that Big Mom being at the bottom of the cliff doesn't change the fact that the Brachio Bomber scene is an anti-feat for her. The force generated by a brachiosaurus falling from a cliff would be enormous, and it's hard to imagine Big Mom being seriously harmed by it, given her durability feats in the series. Therefore it's best to ignore the Brachio Bomber scene as a reliable gauge of Big Mom's durability.
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DaMonkeMan
He/Him- 17,847
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When?
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Not sure about Big Mom, but I know it hurt Kaido here.
DaMonkeMan
He/Him- 17,847
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Isn't that an outlier ( because rocks shouldn't be hurting him at all considering how durable he is )?
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