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Proposing to downgrade Peter Quill and Ego from the MCU.

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Newendigo said:
Okay, here is my proposal for Ego:
Attack Potency: At least Building Level (Fought against a Celestial Quill, destroyed some of the infrastructure within the moon in the battle), higher by enhancing his attacks with Matter Manipulation | At most Moon level with Environmental Destruction (Has full control over his moon, allowing him to manipulate landmasses, create earthquakes, and cast storms around the surface)

Lifting Strength:At least Class 1 (Comparable to Quill) | At least Class M (Could restrain the Quadrant ship even while using it's thrusters), like higher

Striking Strength: At least Building Class (Can trade blows with Celestial Star-Lord)

Durability: At least Building level (Took several hits from Celestial Quill), higher by enhancing his endurance with Matter Manipulation | Unknow for his brain (The bomb rocket created to kill Ego was made from interdimensional Sovereign batteries, which were stated to have enough energy to take out the Sovereign fleet), At most Moon level within his moon

Key: Avatar Ego | Planet Ego
Click to expand...
I would suggest 7-A or possibly Low 6-B for Avatar Ego, 5-C as Planet Ego, High 6-A, possibly 5-A for Ego with the Expansion.
 
Quill being able to hold the power stone isn't 5-A, right? Thanos held the power stone twice, yet was more harmed by the completed gauntlet power surge which characters like Professor Hulk and Iron Man could survive.
 
GyroNutz said:
Quill being able to hold the power stone isn't 5-A, right? Thanos held the power stone twice, yet was more harmed by the completed gauntlet power surge which characters like Professor Hulk and Iron Man could survive.
Click to expand...
I agree with the first, but Thanos was able to effectively wield the completed gauntlet power surge. Professor Hulk barely survived, and Iron Man died from the wounds sustained by wielding it.
 
I was talking less about the snap and more about surviving the energy of the initial surge. I suppose Iron Man could be shaky scaling though.
 
If it took years to plant the seeds than I propose we keep the 5-A but only make it 5-A with Prep time.

Basically avatar ego is 8-C. planet Ego is 5-C,up to 5-A with prep time
 
I'm Blue daba dee daba die said:
If it took years to plant the seeds than I propose we keep the 5-A but only make it 5-A with Prep time.
Click to expand...
No. Why do people not pay attention to the movie? The seeds do not amp his AP at all, they amp the range at which he can use his powers. Peter alone doubled Ego's output which Ego indirectly says is due to him being part Celestial so there is no reason to say a full Celestial has lesser output than a half breed when half Celestials so rarely have the ability to use their powers that Peter was the first after a mountain of skeletons.

Even if it was steelmanned that the flowers amp his AP, he has them all the time as they were already set up milennia in advance and are always there. To argue otherwise is to argue Steve/Tony/Bruce/Natasha without the serum/armor/gamma bomb/Red Room training as "he/she needs prep to do it".

Also tfw people are arguing the Expansion is 5-A. One planet is 5-A, Ego was hitting hundreds based on all of the children he had, each coming from a different planet.
 
GyroNutz said:
Quill being able to hold the power stone isn't 5-A, right? Thanos held the power stone twice, yet was more harmed by the completed gauntlet power surge which characters like Professor Hulk and Iron Man could survive.
Click to expand...
But we go to same argument again. The power stone varies in power.

The energy that a character endures from it will not be the same amount for everyone else.

┬┐Why do you think Stormbreaker is not 5-A for carving through the IG's blast? Or Tony and Carol not having 5-A Durability for tanking direct shots from Power Stone?Ronan was disagree to scale off Thanos from the same reaso.

No one should upgraded from the Power Stone.
 
Also:

A) Quill nearly died from the stone if it was not for the Guardian's help. Him scaling to it makes zero sense.

B) Base Quill was the one that held the stone, his Base being 5-A is laughable.
 
AnonymousBlank said:
I'm Blue daba dee daba die said:
If it took years to plant the seeds than I propose we keep the 5-A but only make it 5-A with Prep time.
Click to expand...
No. Why do people not pay attention to the movie? The seeds do not amp his AP at all, they amp the range at which he can use his powers. Peter alone doubled Ego's output which Ego indirectly says is due to him being part Celestial so there is no reason to say a full Celestial has lesser output than a half breed when half Celestials so rarely have the ability to use their powers that Peter was the first after a mountain of skeletons.
Even if it was steelmanned that the flowers amp his AP, he has them all the time as they were already set up milennia in advance and are always there. To argue otherwise is to argue Steve/Tony/Bruce/Natasha without the serum/armor/gamma bomb/Red Room training as "he/she needs prep to do it".

Also tfw people are arguing the Expansion is 5-A. One planet is 5-A, Ego was hitting hundreds based on all of the children he had, each coming from a different planet.
Click to expand...
Well, Ego couldn't achieve the Expansion on his own.

Also, those were thousands of plants covering planets all at once. A thousand hits doesn't make one.
 
Well, from the looks of it, the calc for a 5-A power stone wasn't too widely agreed on and a fair few people criticized it.

Also, about what will happen to the Infinity Gauntlet and it's AP now. we should reserve that for a general discussion. We can finally even upgrade prime Thor
 
Ego alone didnt have the power to perform the Expansion but with Quill's help he could. You seem to be missing the bigger picture.

There are thousands of flowers but only one per planet, not that this is even relevant. Ego wasn't performing thousands of feats, he was performing one. What you are arguing is the same as saying X blew up two buildings by causing two explosions when he flicked his wrist so he only scales to one building getting bombed. Do you know why thats dumb? Because X still outputs the energy to blow up both at once so he scales to the energy for both.
 
AnonymousBlank said:
Ego alone didnt have the power to perform the Expansion but with Quill's help he could. You seem to be missing the bigger picture.
There are thousands of flowers but only one per planet, not that this is even relevant. Ego wasn't performing thousands of feats, he was performing one. What you are arguing is the same as saying X blew up two buildings by causing two explosions when he flicked his wrist so he only scales to one building getting bombed. Do you know why thats dumb? Because X still outputs the energy to blow up both at once so he scales to the energy for both.
Click to expand...
Because he did it in one wave of his hand. Having thousands of things spreading essence on each planet, even if it's all at once, each one is just one plant mutating its planet. Two explosions from one source and Expansion spreading coming from thousands of sources, one each, are two different things altogether.
 
And once again you don't get what I am saying. The flowers are not the source of energy for the Expansion. The only thing they are the source for is the spread of the Expansion on that single planet. Ego is providing the energy. You are trying to twist the situation so that it fits your narrative but you don't even seem to understand what you are trying to mnaipulate.
 
Even if the downgrade isn't passed, I'm fairly sure the calc should be revised. These are biological extensions of his human body, so something like the density of water (which is roughtly comparable to the density of humans and plants) seems more reasonable than concrete.
 
Okay.
 
Okay. Thanks.
 
You preferably shouldn't just ask a single member if we are stuck with a discussion.

Okay. Thanks.
 
Here is still my current proposal:

Newendigo said:
Okay, here is my proposal for Ego:
Attack Potency: At least Building Level (Fought against a Celestial Quill, destroyed some of the infrastructure within the moon in the battle), higher by enhancing his attacks with Matter Manipulation | At most Moon level with Environmental Destruction (Has full control over his moon, allowing him to manipulate landmasses, create earthquakes, and cast storms around the surface)

Lifting Strength:At least Class 1 (Comparable to Quill) | At least Class M (Could restrain the Quadrant ship even while using it's thrusters), like higher

Striking Strength: At least Building Class (Can trade blows with Celestial Star-Lord)

Durability: At least Building level (Took several hits from Celestial Quill), higher by enhancing his endurance with Matter Manipulation | Unknow for his brain (The bomb rocket created to kill Ego was made from interdimensional Sovereign batteries, which were stated to have enough energy to take out the Sovereign fleet), At most Moon level within his moon

Key: Avatar Ego | Planet Ego
Click to expand...
 
AnonymousBlank said:
And once again you don't get what I am saying. The flowers are not the source of energy for the Expansion. The only thing they are the source for is the spread of the Expansion on that single planet. Ego is providing the energy. You are trying to twist the situation so that it fits your narrative but you don't even seem to understand what you are trying to mnaipulate.
Click to expand...
No, he isn't. He and Quill are providing the energy. Ego cannot do it alone. Without the plants Ego cannot physically spread his essence over the planets. I'm not trying to twist the situation, I'm simply stating it how I see it.

And "don't even seem to understand what you are trying to mnaipulate"? ...Really?

You know, I'm starting to get annoyed that anyone is even arguing this with me at all, when almost everyone else supported my proposal.
 
Also, I forgot to paste here:

Ego and Quill needed their energy to perform the Expansion, so therefore neither of them are 5-A due to the 5-A feat requiring their combined energy.
 
I am arguing with you because you are saying dumb stuff. It doesn't matter what people agree with when that is with something that is completely incorrect. Your proposal for downgrading them is built on nothing but strawmans that the FRA squad didn't even read.

Yes the energy of both is required. Yes, Ego cannot do it alone, thats the plot of the movie. Yes, without the plants he does not have the range to perform the Expansion. Nice to see you finally agree with what happens in the movie. The next step in accepting you were wrong, is to drop the absurd argument that the plants provide anything but increased range, and that Ego and Quill do not scale to half of the Expansion.

Hell, the feat needing both of their energy is why it is halved in the calc, ie not grounds for saying neither scale to the feat when that has already been accounted for.

Yes, you don't have a clue what you are trying to manipulate.
 
AnonymousBlank said:
I am arguing with you because you are saying dumb stuff. It doesn't matter what people agree with when that is with something that is completely incorrect. Your proposal for downgrading them is built on nothing but strawmans that the FRA squad didn't even read.
Yes the energy of both is required. Yes, Ego cannot do it alone, thats the plot of the movie. Yes, without the plants he does not have the range to perform the Expansion. Nice to see you finally agree with what happens in the movie. The next step in accepting you were wrong, is to drop the absurd argument that the plants provide anything but increased range, and that Ego and Quill do not scale to half of the Expansion.

Hell, the feat needing both of their energy is why it is halved in the calc, ie not grounds for saying neither scale to the feat when that has already been accounted for.

Yes, you don't have a clue what you are trying to manipulate.
Click to expand...
Yes, they do scale. Razing the surface, which is what the Expansion basically is, is not 5-A. Completely destroying the planet is 5-A.

Either way, they're not 5-A.

You know, I'm starting to think you really are a dude, sadly not a man. Because a man would acknowledge that he truly is wrong on a topic instead of hopelessly persisting and saying his opponent doesn't have a clue what he's talking about.
 
....... did you even read what I typed? I never said they didn't scale, I said you were arguing that they didn't scale to half the feat. Actually read or just scroll up and its clear as day what I was saying. Like I said on the other thread, surface wiping is not inherently 5-A. Bring an actual argument.

Care to provide anything that isn't your opinion?

Nice words. They might mean something if I was actually wrong. At every turn on every point in this thread, you have been wrong.

What the plants are for, Ego and Quill scaling, what the calc you have a problem with is even calculating, how explosions work, how the tiering system works, what I am even arguing etc etc.
 
AnonymousBlank said:
....... did you even read what I typed? I never said they didn't scale, I said you were arguing that they didn't scale to half the feat. Actually read or just scroll up and its clear as day what I was saying. Like I said on the other thread, surface wiping is not inherently 5-A. Bring an actual argument.
Care to provide anything that isn't your opinion?

Nice words. They might mean something if I was actually wrong. At every turn on every point in this thread, you have been wrong.

What the plants are for, Ego and Quill scaling, what the calc you have a problem with is even calculating, how explosions work, how the tiering system works, what I am even arguing etc etc.
Click to expand...
Giving one nuclear bomb more speed than another nuclear bomb isn't gonna change anything, they're still going to have the same destructive power. And even if you debunk that, it still isn't 5-A because the Expansion blue matter was moving pretty slowly by surface-razing standards.

My opinion? Some of the people that even bothered to comment actually agreed with me.

I was just stating it how I saw it. And opinions and arguments are bound to change. It's just how life works.
 
You really aren't understanding at all. You keep bringing up one of the nukes moving faster even though I keep telling you it is irrelevant to what I am explaining. The kinetic energy of the bomb physically hitting something will be higher due to the increased speed but the blast is a completely separate thing. If the blast travels faster, that means it is able to move the same mass faster than another bomb, this means it has more force. Think exhaling. If your breath comes out slower, why is that? Because you are not putting in as much force. If your breath is slower, it will not exert as much force. The inverse of this is true as well, if you exhale harder (use more energy), your breath will travel faster, further and will carry more force. The explosion of the blast is the exact same, bigger yield = faster blast wave = larger AOE = bigger yield. Therefore if the blast moves 10km/s the energy required is bigger than if it was 1km/s.

Appeal to popularity.

Whatever. Lets just agree to disagree on this. It has nothing to do with the thread topic and I hate arguing opinions.
 
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