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See how you're twisting my words around to better suit your point? I didn't give her stealth mastery, I gave her limited STEALTH, just stealth, there was no mastery written on her page or in it's justification, and the justification explicitly stated that it likely wouldn't work if he was paying attention or knew she was around.

I didn't just say she got a present. She is liked by everyone around her, even people she doesn't know, except Sakurai, which is partly why she picks on him in the first place. Being able to get free stuff from people because you're funny, attractive or nice to them is Social Influencing.
 
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I never said you gave her stealth mastery. I said:

Even limited stealth mastery is too much, that isn't stealth mastery in any way or form, even a limited one. Most normal people can tail an unsuspecting person without being noticed.
I disagree with that being social influencing.
 
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Agnaa said:
I never said you gave her stealth mastery. I said:
Even limited stealth mastery is too much, that isn't stealth mastery in any way or form, even a limited one. Most normal people can tail an unsuspecting person without being noticed.
Agnaa said:
I disagree with that being social influencing.
Most normal people can't get something from someone without directly asking for it, and they still probably won't get it. People give her what she wants just because she is nice to them and attractive. That's using your charm to get you what you want, one of the many ways someone can be a social influencer.
 
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It's a mixture of her charm, niceness and attractive qualities that allow her to get what she wants from people. Thats one of the many things that Social Influencing is.
 
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She also can convince groups of people with her speeches. One example is when she went on a tirade about mint chocolate because Sakurai called it "toothpaste flavor", and not only convinced him that mint chocolate is a valid flavor through sheer determination, oral history and showmanship, she got a standing ovation from the surrounding croud and people in their homes through their windows.
 
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Convincing someone that mint chocolate is a valid flavor isn't social influencing.

Making a speech that gets people to cheer/clap isn't social influencing.

Seriously dude.
 
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No, that's called communication. We are not giving everyone who has ever convinced someone to think a different way Social Influencing.
 

AKM sama

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Yeah I've been noticing this. Social Influencing is being spammed onto a lot of profiles despite those instances just being normal. It isn't even a power and is extremely subjective. I don't even know why a page was made for it, I wish to remove it.
 
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Different people want it around for different reasons. Some want it around so there's a page for something which is sorta like Mind Manipulation but much less potent and closer to naturally convincing people to a slightly supernatural extent (Frisk). Some people want it around for a different method of Mind Manipulation, so instead of being biological or psychic mind manip, it's instead mind manip that works through convincing people, and as such can have any level of potency (Weather Report).
 

AKM sama

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Still it's just a weak form of mind manipulation. Not worth creating a "power" that doesn't exist which all humans have to some extent, especially the more popular ones, like celebreties and political leaders.
 
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I'm pretty sure there were a couple threads with that argument and the page still exists so you should look for them to learn their reasonings.
 
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I also think it should be clarified on the page itself that it has to be a lot more than just natural charisma, so we can avoid any further arguments based on one side (me in this case) misinterpreting the ability and the qualifications for it.
 

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It exists because there is a big difference ebetween resisting magic energies warping your mind or brain, and someone just manipulating your tought process through simple talks.

Yes, it's extremes are stupid, telling someone to kill themselves convincingly enough that they do it isn't sensical without superpowers, but it's a thing, and it isn't resisted through normal mind manip resistance.
 

AKM sama

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"and someone just manipulating your tought process through simple talks"

Which again, isn't a superpower. Just a skill that most normal and popular people possess.

"telling someone to kill themselves convincingly enough that they do it isn't sensical without superpowers, but it's a thing, and it isn't resisted through normal mind manip resistance."

It is sensical and depends upon the context and situation. A lot of people convince the weak minded to attempt suicides. All you need to "resist" it is just a strong conscious and will.
 

Ricsi-viragosi

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Because the ability to stab a sword the right way, or martial arts, are superpowers? Or vehicular mastery is? Preparation time can be perfectly non-supernatural too.

Being "super" is not a requirement to be an ability.

Well, of the top of my head, Hajime Hinata can get the entire human population to do that (by telling them to do it through a video) because he's just that persuasive. Obviously there are situations it can't work no matter what, but that doesn't really matter to the ability's existence.
 

AKM sama

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That is not the only point. Those abilities aren't as subjective as this. This is redundant and can be replaced by a weak form of mind manip (which doesn't always have to be through magic or some weird supernatural power) and should apply to only a few selected characters, rather than slapping it on every profile for being able to talk convincingly and clearly misusing it to great effect (including in versus threads).
 

Ricsi-viragosi

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Redundant? Empathic manipulation isn't a less versatile form of controlling someone's mind? Fear manipulation isn't an even more limited form of that?

Making sub-abilities has always been allowed, do that isn't a reason to get rid of it either.

There is no concrete reason to remove it, and it is certainly more unique form of mental manipulation then other sub-powers are.
 

Sir_Ovens

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Can we please delete Leaky-eye Luka? He only appeared for like 5 minutes and all he did was put himself into a coma with his own shovel. He's about as much as a blank slate as it gets and there's no point for his profile to even exist.
 

Wokistan

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Kirby (Smash Bros.)

Pretty sure he was only around for scaling reasons. His feat isn't used anymore so he is obsolete.
 

Saikou_The_Lewd_King

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Most of our Smash profiles, also, shouldn't exist.

Hero (Smash Bros.)

Piranha Plant (Super Smash Bros.)

Isabelle (Smash Bros.)

King K. Rool (Smash Bros.)

It's the ones I found to be against the rules. Basically, only G&W, Duck Hunt, Ice Climbes, Wii Fit, Captain Falcon and Miis should have profiles.
 

Jasonsith

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Saikou The Lewd King said:
Most of our Smash profiles, also, shouldn't exist.

Hero (Smash Bros.)

Piranha Plant (Super Smash Bros.)

Isabelle (Smash Bros.)

King K. Rool (Smash Bros.)

It's the ones I found to be against the rules. Basically, only G&W, Duck Hunt, Ice Climbes, Wii Fit, Captain Falcon and Miis should have profiles.
If Smash Bros incarnation characters should not exist, then should other fighting game crossover characters be decimated as well?

Or should Smash Bros incarnation characters be treated the same way as other characters with a different incarnation?
 

AKM sama

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Antvasima said:
For the record, I think that social influencing is a valid ability and that we should keep it, but discourage using it over the slightest thing.
That's the main issue I have. If we are keeping it, strict standards should be maintained for its inclusion in the profiles. And the page really doesn't make it clear at all. The content on the page makes it look like every run-of-the-mill character who persuades somebody could get it.
 
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I think it should only be used when someone gets convinced into doing something improbable without any indication of the presence of mindhax, or an instant ideology change.
 

Antvasima

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@AKM

Feel free to add a footnote (or similar) section that specifies that the ability should only be added for genuinely extraordinary ability in this area.
 
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