Problems with the World of Darkness Profiles

[Udlmaster]

Alright. So can you be more specific with your "discussed here" links for the ability justifications? Some of those are massive conversations that go on with "that isn't justification" for quite some time.

I'm going to put it into the respect thread, I have a massive headache today anyway, I just want to do my research and work on the respect thread without me being told the profile I created sicks and should be deleted without any attempt at asking the person for sources.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

Well I'm glad your putting together a respect thread and will look forward to its posting, but I think you're taking this too personally. We've all had CRTs sprung on us, many of which the OP doesn't confer with us beforehand. Most of the time it isn't an insult or backhanded; CRTs are they ways we fix things. Oftentimes it's easier to make a thread and let people all reply rather than seeking out the knowledgeable members independently.

 

[Udlmaster]

To be honest, I think I am.

It's also that it's getting late and honest, I both wasn't expecting this and my patience was being worn thin throughout the day anyway, this was kinda just the feather to tip the scales.

It's also the isolating feeling that I HAVE to be the one to represent World of Darkness because no one else will.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I'm not familiar with the verse, but the OP seems very well summed up.

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

I think UDL addressed most of the op well in his response with scans at that, all of which seem to make sense to me.

 

[PaChi2]

What Wok said. For example, pretty much everyone's taken pot-shots at Pokemon at this point, be it Assalt, Kep, Matt, Sera, etc. No need to get so worked up about it.

I do remember you throwing a hissy fit over some downgrade and saying that you'd leave the wiki and blah blah blah. I dont remember which thread was.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Shhhhh

 

[AKM sama]

I do remember you throwing a hissy fit over some downgrade and saying that you'd leave the wiki and blah blah blah. I dont remember which thread was.

Not to derail but I need that link

 

[Kaltias]

What Wok said. For example, pretty much everyone's taken pot-shots at Pokemon at this point, be it Assalt, Kep, Matt, Sera, etc. No need to get so worked up about it.

Wait I haven't downgraded Pokémon yet?

Hold my beer

 

[RKGenki]

Poor Cal

Anyway, I think it's best to stop derailing.

As for this, I agree that you should've made the respect thread before the profile. Deleting the profile for now (ofc giving you the time to save the source code first) and remaking it once it's done is an option I can agree with

 

[Aeyu]

I agree with Matt and Ultima; the OP seems to be pretty reliable.

 

[Andytrenom]

>Angels are undying creatures, and when compassed by the span of an infinite lifetime, any setback short of destruction is a temporary thing

...Is there some context I'm missing? Cause that just sounds like type 1

Concept manip seems legit, but what makes it type 2?

 

[Sera_EX]

To be fair, I've never seriously tried to downgrade Pokemon (Pritti would destroy me in that argument...). I only brought that up because Andy had asked about it on the reality-fiction thread, hence "possible" in the title.

 

[Udlmaster]

>Angels are undying creatures, and when compassed by the span of an infinite lifetime, any setback short of destruction is a temporary thing
...Is there some context I'm missing? Cause that just sounds like type 1

Concept manip seems legit, but what makes it type 2?

You're right, that's the wrong quote:

They existed long before Death was given concept: https://imgur.com/uK4Ri64

The Concepts govern all reality, the Angels even embody them:

"The artificers gave this boundary length, breadth and volume, and they called it space -- the boundary of existence, a zone in which the very concept of existence could finally be expressed." - Houses of the Fallen

"Under the guidance of the Heralds, the six Houses of the Host built reality, spinning it from the nothingness of the Void and shaping with their intent. Embodying the laws of reality that the Creator had chosen, the angels used their evocations -- their very will and being -- to create something from nothing." - Houses of the Fallen

 

[Andytrenom]

Type 3 concepts also govern reality, the concepts have to be transcendent of the reality it governs for it to be type 2. You have to show that altering the objects of the concept won't have any effect on the concept itself for it to qualify as type 2.

 

[PaChi2]

How about we give him time to get the respect threads/blogs before going all Inquisition on him.

 

[Udlmaster]

Yeah, I'm working on it, it's in my blogs right now as I work on it:

Andytrenom wrote:
Type 3 concepts also govern reality, the concepts have to be transcendent of the reality it governs for it to be type 2. You have to show that altering the objects of the concept won't have any effect on the concept itself for it to qualify as type 2.

Yeah, I believe there's a quote like that.

We do know the concepts work on every level of existence, even one's that are "Place beyond place, that timeless time"

Everything was in every form of existence before God destroyed a Heave, which is stated to be outside of the infinite Multiverses, to which there are multiple versions, possibly even an infinite amount of them.

Places that defy conventional dimensional physics are still governed by these Concepts.

 

[Jobbo]

Some of this stuff would probably work as supporting evidence for 1-A, but unfortunately it lacks the main clincher.

 

[Antvasima]

I agree with PaChi2. Udlmaster seems like a nice guy. He is just bad at structuring profile pages.

 

[Udlmaster]

I agree with PaChi2. Udlmaster seems like a nice guy. He is just bad at structuring profile pages.

I'd say I'm awful at it to be honest XD.

But, at least I'm getting the quotes and citations.

 

[RKGenki]

As long as you can prove what you put in a profile it's fine, you can always ask someone to help you with the formatting

 

[Udlmaster]

Some of this stuff would probably work as supporting evidence for 1-A, but unfortunately it lacks the main clincher.

There's a fair bit for High 1-B, but I think it's at best a "possibly Much Higher" I don't really have anything concrete for High 1-B to be justified.

1-A? I'm not sure, "the Beyond places, That Timeless time." maybe, but there's not enough justification for High 1-B for them to become 1-A.

If I remember correctly, Marvel's Multi-Concepts have an much better argument for 1-A than God does.

 

[Sera_EX]

How about we give him time to get the respect threads/blogs before going all Inquisition on him.

You realize the proper way to prevent this from happening is to make a respect thread first, right? If a blog was made prior, than this thread would never had existed.

This goes back to a few years ago when none of the high tiered visunal novel verses had proper explanation pages, what do you expect? For everyone to just believe your word and not inquire evidence?

We live in a world where people can make any outrageous claim they want, especially on the internet. Of course someone will come along and challenge that to see if it holds up to scrutiny.

 

[Udlmaster]

^

You're absolutely right, it was more so my excitement that lead me to creating the profile, but what's good, is that because I created it early, it lead me to refine my research and actually got me to find more.

So, silverlining there.

 

[PaChi2]

You realize the proper way to prevent this from happening is to make a respect thread first, right? If a blog was made prior, than this thread would never had existed.

This goes back to a few years ago when none of the high tiered visunal novel verses had proper explanation pages, what do you expect? For everyone to just believe your word and not inquire evidence?

We live in a world where people can make any outrageous claim they want, especially on the internet. Of course someone will come along and challenge that to see if it holds up to scrutiny.

Just. Give. Him. Time.

I did not say anything else. I was not referring to this OP, so half of your answer is irrelevant to what I said.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Agree 100% with PaChi2.

Btw, Udlmaster, I will soon start researching WoD for a rp campaign my friends and I are making. Maybe in the future I could help ease your pain. ovo

 

[Udlmaster]

Agree 100% with PaChi2.
Btw, Udlmaster, I will soon start researching WoD for a rp campaign my friends and I are making. Maybe in the future I could help ease your pain. ovo

I'd love all the help you can offer, if you need any help finding the books, I have access to all of them.

 

[Sera_EX]

@PaChi

You're saying "give him time" when the only reason why he's being questioned is because of the same old "really strong character or verse with questionable justifications" scenario.

Ven and Demonbane? A6colute and I/O? Weekly and SCP? DarkLK and Umineko? This has happened many times before. That's all I'm saying.

"I'll make a blog" is not an excuse. Personally, I trust Udlmaster, but not everyone shares my judgment.

 

[Udlmaster]

I definately understand, I myself had to deal with one of these profiles in the form of Bobobo.

But I am trying to give the justifications for why I would put said things on the profiles.

I did create a work-in-progress Respect thread on my blog. I have found some really nice feats as well.

 

[AKM sama]

Okay, what's done is done. How about we stop arguing over it, focus on what we should do next and give Udlmaster some time, Till then:

1) Either keep the profiles the way they are until Udlmaster finishes the blog/respect thread.

2) Or delete the profiles temporarily after Udlmaster saves the source for future use.

Choose.

 

[Jobbo]

He's already saved God's current profile.

 

[Udlmaster]

God has been saved, because I need to go through God and make sure I have added the right abilities.

Demons and Mages can be removed, It would be better if I recreated them from scratch. Because there's a lot I'll need to add to them, considering Mage is currently out of date, as the Mages are at least 6-D not at most 5-D.

So yeah, I have God saved, Demons and Mages can go.

I'm not sure about Vampire, I'll leave that to the person who made it.

 

[AKM sama]

Okay then, problem solved. At least for now.

 

[Jobbo]

How long do you reckon it'll take, Udl? A few weeks?

 

[Udlmaster]

Ah! I was wrong.

My apologises, Hell isn't the thing beyond Places and Timeless Time, it's a place called "Oblivion" (Very different from the Void)

Oblivion is the land for the Wraths, and God created it for the Demons and the Wraths to wonder. Apparently, it could kill the Demons for those who wanted to be "unmade".

 

[Dragomer]

Technicaly, multiple characters just have 'plot device' as their powers, so it's useless to actualy give them any stats since their powers is supposed to be whatever the DM need it to be for his campaign (where other set characters have set stats and capacity)

 

[Udlmaster]

Very few of them have the "Left up to the DM" levels of power, God is the only one I know of.

Also, like what we do with D&D, we only take the direct sources where it states these. We don't take "GM says so" as a actual source. Because 1 GM can say "God is Omnipotent, above infinite dimensions and all things" while another GM can say "God is actually a Infinite 3-D being who has High 1-C creation powers."

Too many variables, so we only take what the Guides say.

 

[Udlmaster]

How long do you reckon it'll take, Udl? A few weeks?

Hmm, I'd say a week? Since there's so much to go over, it may take longer. It depends on how many people join in, King maybe joining in, Lephyr is joining in, I've given them all my sources. I may have more people join in, that would speed up the process.

 

[Andytrenom]

@Uld Should I delete the pages for the time being?

 

[Dragomer]

Very few of them have the "Left up to the DM" levels of power, God is the only one I know of.
Also, like what we do with D&D, we only take the direct sources where it states these. We don't take "GM says so" as a actual source. Because 1 GM can say "God is Omnipotent, above infinite dimensions and all things" while another GM can say "God is actually a Infinite 3-D being who has High 1-C creation powers."

Too many variables, so we only take what the Guides say.

All the Antediluvian and Cain have it as their description of powers and all the level 10 discipline of the vampire also have 'plot device' as their description

and the guide say 'Plot device, whatever you need', which is why i brough it up in the first place