Princess Luna Stars level ?

[Ryukama]

@Azzy I guess. I mean assuming that there are in fact instances where their strikes harm each other.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, it is just that I do not have the impression that Twilight and Starlight Glinmer are physically stronger than, for example, Applejack, and that if we assign them the ability to physically strike with Large Star level strength, we would likely have to scale most other ponies accordingly as well, which seems suspicious to me.

 

[Ryukama]

@Ant If Twilight is a much more powerful magic user than Applejack, then she could be physically stronger than her when being amped by magic. We wouldn't have to make everyone Large Star level.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, okay. Never mind then. I suppose that we may not have to adjust the striking strengths then.

However, it would be helpful if somebody could insert Azathoth's explanation as a footnote to the My Little Pony verse page.

 

[Pikachu942]

Alicorns are specifically stated to be the physically strongest types of ponies. Generally, it's Alicorns>Earth Ponies>Pegasi>Unicorns in physical strength.

Otherwise I agree with what Azzy said.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Btw, because if how our celestial body-moving feats will work now, does anyone remember the exact amount of stars Discord moved and/or Celestia created? It would be helpful.

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

In which comics exactly did this constellation feat happen?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

I don't know. I asked, but no one answered or provided scans.

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

Well, I'm trying to find it, the best thing I could find until now is that Chrysalis defeated a guy, and then the guy flew away and turned into a constellatio, I'll keep looking for the Celestia feat.

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

I couldn't find it, there's no mention of it on the MLP wiki and I couldn't find any scan on Derpibooru either.

 

[Pikachu942]

I believe people got it confused with the Orion thing where he flew up and became a constellation.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

As for Discord, I vaguely recall that he played around with the Moon, Sun, and several stars in one of the episodes in which he was an antagonist.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Yes, I mistakened the Chrysalis feat for being a feat Celestia did. It just seemed so appropriate for it to be something Celestia would do.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Okay.
As for Discord, I vaguely recall that he played around with the Moon, Sun, and several stars in one of the episodes in which he was an antagonist.

You are correct. In Return of Harmony, he made it so that day and night would flip every few minutes or so by having the sun and moon spin rapidly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waqCO1DmVo0

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

So Discord simultaneously manipulated the sun and moon, though isn't there one instance in which he moves multiple stars in the background? Or am I misremembering?

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

Well, there was that time when he created a pocket universe that had multiple planets and (possibly) stars in it.

 

[Antvasima]

Hmm. Perhaps we need to adjust Discord, and anybody scaled from him, down to Large Star level then?

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

Where does Large Star Level even come from? Isn't moving the sun Star Level or something?

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

@Paulo: By our standards, its supposed to be by going with its GBE but Pikachu showed something about it being of Large Star if they were moving at near lightspeed.....speeds. Or something of the sorts idek...

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

Ok, I guess?

 

[Antvasima]

Well, Star level is an extremely narrow tier, whereas Large Star level has wide borders.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

@Ant

Since Star level is only like 2x between low and high-end, you could also just scale Alicorns and everyone who scales to one to Star level, Discord as Large Star level for being able to make a mockery out of two Alicorns, and then adjust everyone who scales to him as large star level.

This would make sense, as while Discord is above Tia + Luna, Tirek demonstrated Discord's magic is still below that of 4 total Alicorns (Discord's magic + all normal pony magic = all Alicorn magic).

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

What about that pocket universe feat that I linked? Is it usable? Just asking.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Possibly? Though the background is extremely vague and this is Discord we're talking about, so it could be anything. Still at least contains multiple planets, though.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

It sounds like a nice feat to have for him for his Pocket Dimension/Universe power thing though.

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

Yeah, it seems to be kind of hard to know if those things on the background are planets or stars, due to the art style.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Indeed. He does something similar in the show, so it's definitely a common part of his powerset, as well.

 

[The_Everlasting]

IIRC Discord is getting a focus episode where he's taking Fluttershy to a visit to this Chaos Dimension of his, so maybe we'll get more there.

 

[Pikachu942]

So are we downgrading people now again?

If so, the scaling would be

4-C:

All 5 Alicorns (Twilight, Celestia, Cadance, Luna & Flurry Heart)

Starlight Glimmer (Post-Season 5 Finale)

Queen Chrysalis (Post-Love Absorbed)

Lord Tirek (Post-Shining Armor absorption)

Starswirl the Bearded

Alicorn Amulet

Power of Love attack (used by Cadance and Shining Armor)

At least 4-C, possibly High 4-C:

Rabia (Defeated both Twilight and Cadance at once, but it was offscreen and since High 4-C is slightly more than 2x 4-C, it's moreso a grey area).

High 4-C:

King Sombra (One-shotted Celestia & Luna at once)

Discord (Stomped Celestia & Luna at once)

Elements of Harmony

Nightmare Rarity (It can be argued Rarity has merely 4-C AP, but she definitely has High 4-C Durability in this form)

Demon Sunset

Midnight Sparkle

Daydream Shimmer

Crystal Heart

Flurry Heart (Power Fluctuation)

Twilight (All Alicorn Magic)

Lord Tirek (Post-Mane 6 Absorption up)

The Dazzlings

Rainbow Power


I don't necessarily agree, but if you're gonna go through with it this would be the scaling.

Also, since we're discussing revisions again, there was a recent calc that Dark did that would bring a decent amount of lower tiers into the Tier 6 range that I feel is acceptable.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Why does Demon Sunset scale? She stole one Element which she couldn't use to its fullest potential and was stomped by weaker counterparts of the mane 6. Assuming she's above Discord is shaky at absolute best.

 

[Pikachu942]

The Element of Magic was stated to have a large majority of the EoH power, and is needed to even activate the Elements in the first place. It was never stated she "couldn't use it to its fullest potential" that's an assumption. Also assuming the human counterparts are "weaker" is also speculation, never explicitly stated.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I agree with Azzy.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Except no, they're definitely weaker, unless we're arguing Rainbow Dash from a world with no native magic who can't fly before Twilight is also Nuke level.

If the Element of Magic was a major part of the Elements in terms of pure power at all times, Twilight could have one-shot NM and Discord with negative effort. Bu she didn't, because that's not how they work.

 

[Pikachu942]

I'm not denying their base forms are weaker, but when they harnessed their equestrian magic they were just as strong.

Also, it was literally stated in the movie: "Twilight, you must use the mirror to go into this other world and retrieve your crown. Without it, the other Elements of Harmony have no power and Equestria is left without one of its most important means of defense."

There it is, right there. It is somewhat inconsistent I'll give you that but there it is.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

...you realize the Elements don't work properly on their own, right? They're essentially just fancy jewelry without each other. Hence why they're the Elements of Harmony and the plots to multiple episodes (Return of Harmony comes to mind). Sunset Shimmer took one Element to a world with no native magic, used said Element (which was magic), and then lost to a weaker version of the Elements from Equestrian Twilight the rest of an alternate universe mane 6. Even if you assume that the EQG Elements are for some reason equal to the Equestrian version, Sunset got roflstomped and doesn't scale to them, anyway, which wouldn't have happened if the Element of Magic was almost always at full Element potential.

 

[Pikachu942]

Hmmm, I suppose that makes sense, but she's still clearly above Alicorn level IMO. They directly use the power that roflstomped Sunset for Midnight Sparkle and Daydream Shimmer however, so they should still scale.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

By the way, wasn't the story in Princes Twillight Sparkle was that the balance of the world was being broken, causing it to be simultaneously Night and Day, because Discord's seeds were affecting the Tree of Harmony?

These kinds of feats show that Discord can casually affect both the sun and moon and move both day and night.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Why is she Alicorn level? She does nothing to suggest this. I also doubt Midnight and Daydream should scale to any of the Tier 4s in Equestria, because again, this is an entirely different universe and version of the power. One that, on top of that, could not initially overcome the Dazzlings (who were Alicorn level in their prime if we scale to Starswirl), who were deprived of magic and had been living off of "fast food" without much real meals.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

@Matt

Well, yeah. But he's Discord. We already knew that.