• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Princess Luna Stars level ?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Do you seriously believe the power of the Element of Magic is weaker than an Alicorn? Even separated from the rest it should still be superior.

We do not know the upper limits of The Dazzlings power in their prime, considering Starswirl practically gave up before even fighting them because of their sheer power, plus it was clearly seen via their transformation that they were using a form of Rainbow Power in the Rainbow Rocks movie to combat the Dazzlings.
 
Do you mean when separated from all other Elements by a literal universe and being wielded by someone who isn't even the rightful owner? Yes. Unfathomably so. Especially since, again, there is zero proof suggesting Sunset became that strong, with multiple showings of the Elements being ineffective apart.

"We don't know their upper limits" is not a reason to suspect them to be drastically above someone who defeated them. Do you mean when they actually beat the Dazzlings? Yes, but the Dazzlings don't scale to that, either.
 
They utilized Rainbow Power when they were initially defeated by the Dazzlings before Sunset joined in, it's clear as day. Starswirl also did not defeat them, he was forced to send them away because he had no other way to end them.

I always had the Demon, Daydream and Midnight forms as likely anyways, it's clear there is a drastic power-up, I think at the very least a possibly 4-C is in order.
 
I've already calculated that at roughly .4c, it's what gives them their Relativistic reactions in the first place right now.
 
Sealing someone away or banishing them is the most common method of beating a villain in the series. Aside from Sombra, it applies to everyone.

We need something substantial. We cannot just cross-universe scale like that. The two things from the main universe dropped into the EQG universe are the Element of Magic and the Dazzlings. The Elements of Harmony are repeatedly shown to not function properly when separated, and the Dazzlings had become weakened and, until the climax, could only use mind manipulation and absorb conflict. Neither of these suggest Tier 4 EQG.

If there is legitimate evidence for them being so, then it can be added. If there isn't, we cannot rate them as Tier 4. The only exception would be the Dazzlings, who would have a "In their prime" key.
 
All I'm saying as it pertains to the Starswirl stuff is Starswirl himself says multiple times that he cannot defeat them and loses easily every time. He considers the fight his greatest failure.

As for the cross-universe scaling, it is quite clear that Rainbow Power is what is being used in the battle against the Dazzlings. It's not a weakened form like the EoH with just the Element of Magic, it is the full on thing with the hair changes and everything.
 
Again, you need actual evidence for EQG universe Elements and Rainbow Power being equivalent to the Equestrian counterparts. Especially considering how it is a universe orders of magnitude weaker.

Prime Dazzlings definitely scale to Starswirl. Though I fail to see how a fight he won was a failure and not the ones he lost.
 
Starswirl did lose his fight with the Dazzlings is what I'm saying, he had to use outside resources to win as shown in the comics.

I feel like there's no reason to really assume Rainbow Power is any weaker, it's clearly the same power-up.
 
Yes but why would that be a failure? He still solved the problem and saved Equestria.

Except it's from an entirely different world and being used by entirely different versions of characters and is acquired through entirely different means.
 
Listen man, I'm not Starswirl, he's a weird dude lol.

Fair enough points, I don't feel too strongly about this particular thing as we still have some Tier 4 MLP. What do you suggest giving them then? They are definitely more powerful than a base unicorn or else why would Sunset even seek this stuff out, so an At least from what the base stats are could be good. Also, Dark's calc would give us some buffs to lower tiers for Tier 6 so I want to focus on that now.
 
That he is. lol

Well, like I said, prime Dazzlings still scale to tier 4. Demon Sunset should be much stronger than her unicorn self, so "At least -insert base Sunset tier, likely far higher". Other villains should scale from that.
 
Hmmmmm. Should I do the downgrades then? I'm still hesitant on moving Discord down from Solar System level considering the casual nature of all his feats plus that vast amount of space with hundreds of thousands of planets and likely stars he created
 
I also agree with Azathoth.

@Pikachu942

Again, High 4-C is a very wide tier. It is perfectly possible to perform large star level feats casually without exceeding it.

If Discord is shown to possess much greater power later on, we can update his profile accordingly then.
 
High 4-C is very wide. Like thousands of times or so. You can be casually High 4-C and still be High 4-C.

Hell, you can casually be practically any tier and still be ranked at it. 4-C is one of the few exceptions since it's ridiculously tiny. Stomping a 4-C almost garantees you a High 4-C level.
 
So 4-C for Alicorns and comparable characters, and High 4-C for chatacters like Discord and such?

Also, I am becoming very unsure on if we should use the comic to supplement the show. Looking back on some issues, there is stuff that is drastically different between the two (changelings are a good example), and then you have Jim saying stuff like this after actually reading a comic that people were having continuity issues with.

IMG 7025
 
The comic isn't non-canon, it is secondary canon. A lot about the world can only be learned from the comics, only to be incorporated into the show seasons later.
 
That's never happened, to my knowledge. In fact, the comic contradicts certain aspects of the show, and is stated to be separate by the showrunner himself.
 
That is, to my knowledge, just a reference. It does not compare to major character and stiry contradictions.

Here's an example. In the comics, Chrysalis has instances of showing she actually cares about the changelings as her children, and wants to stop the release of the Umbrum because her children "can't feed on despair". In the show, it is shown she does not actually care, wants to rule Equestria her own way, is basically a dictator, and is gladly overthrown by the reformed changelings.

This is because the showrunners have no interaction with the comics, and in most cases don't even read them. The only ones who tell IDW's staff what to do are Hasbro higher-ups, and even then it isn't story restrictions. This can result in the comics turning characters into vastly different people than they are in the show.
 
Also @Matt, he essentially said the equivalent of "it's whatever you want", as he obviously does not want to negatively impact sales. He still stated things will remain separate and not connect, and "everything is canon until it isn't" would likely apply to several of the major contradictions.
 
So, he really can't make up his mind? Nice, this will apparently go down in history as one of the unanswered mysteries of the internet: "Are the IDW My Little Pony Comics canon?", the world may never know.
 
@Paulo

Pretty much. My main problem is that I'd like to just say "don't use contradicted events", but it becomes a biggerissue when entire characters end up becoming vastly different due to being based on maybe a single show appearance when the comic uses them.
 
Big Jim isn't contradicting himself. He just says that the comics are secondary canon.

It's all canon until it's not, and you shouldn't think too hard about it.
 
@Matt

Yes, everything is canon until it's not. And nothing is canon until it is.

Guess which comic is purposefully never confirmed or denied to be canon? That's our problem.

There's also the fact that, while he never confirms nor denies canon, he does say that the two will remain separate, which is why it is strange to use the comic for show profiles. Especially when we come across things that are at odds with each other.
 
Also, checking back, it turns out the entire origin of the changelings in the comic is different as well. In that, they grew from a carnivorous plant and accidentally released by Starswirl, and have always been evil.

In the show, they were actually good, but corrupted and under the dictatorship of Chrysalis, who refused to let them try other ways of gaining love.
 
"In the show, they were actually good, but corrupted and under the dictatorship of Chrysalis, who refused to let them try other ways of gaining love."

Is that really how it went? I thought it was that they were always evil and simply never gave love so they never underwent their metamorphosis.
 
Sorry, I've been to busy to check the thread lately and to tired to read through it. What seems to be the issue?
 
Darkanine said:
Sorry, I've been to busy to check the thread lately and to tired to read through it. What seems to be the issue?
Click to expand...
We're trying to find out if the comics are canon, but the show staff seems to not care about it, some twites say they are canon, some say they aren't.
 
I believe they're officially secondary canon, so they're canon until they make any major contradiction. Most things with comic tie-ins don't "care" about them, namely because if they did, then it would cause some dissidence among the fans who read the comics and the ones who didn't. That's why most comic tie-ins are either just short one-off stories (most MLP comics) or extremely self-contained, but canonical stories (Voltron LDs comics).

That said, as long as theirs no major contradiction, I'm okay with using them as canon.
 
Should we make a note in the main verse page of how the comics are secondary canon, that can be used unless contradicted? Or should the wording of the regulation be adjusted?
 
@Ever

Always evil? No, though they did always look like their black forms until then. They were shown to actually be born and raised (i.e. Thorax), whereas in the comics they grew from a magic carnivorous plant and have always been the way they are.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

PonePoster
Ponies Have LAYERS! - MLP hax layer CRT (with an ability addition)
Replies
18
Views
1K
PonePoster
PonePoster
ArzCosmos_888
Scaling MLP Characters and other details.
2 3 4
Replies
126
Views
8K
Antvasima
Antvasima
Lightbuster30
  • Locked
MLP Speed Upgrade (Infinite/Immeasurable)
2 3
Replies
93
Views
8K
Phoenks
Phoenks
ArzCosmos_888
MLP Cosmology Upgrade (Low 1-C)
2 3
Replies
87
Views
13K
ArzCosmos_888
ArzCosmos_888
StoneKillerz12
The Owl House: Massive Verse Revision (High 6-A for Titan Luz, Titan Belos, 3-C rating for The Collector, Speed of Light for light spell, etc.)
Replies
16
Views
2K
The_Axiom_of_Virgo
The_Axiom_of_Virgo
Back
Top