Prime All Might Multiplier - Possible Discussion Thread Rule Addition After?

[Damage3245]

You’re saying Prime All Might is stronger than Mirko.

Mirko can one shot High Ends who are stronger than USJ Nomu.

You’re claiming that if it did not have Shock Absorption, despite being “as strong as All Might,” it would be one shot by Prime All Might.

Remember that All Might "one-shot" All For One during their battle despite the two of them being relative with each other.

The High-Ends could have probably one-shot Mirko too if they aimed for her head instead of her leg when it skewered her.

The High-End Nomu are stronger and faster than Endeavor, but Endeavor could one-shot them if he hits the head.

Characters that are relative to each other can defeat each other in one hit under the right conditions.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Remember that All Might "one-shot" All For One during their battle despite the two of them being relative with each other.

The High-Ends could have probably one-shot Mirko too if they aimed for her head instead of her leg when it skewered her.

The High-End Nomu are stronger and faster than Endeavor, but Endeavor could one-shot them if he hits the head.

Characters that are relative to each other can defeat each other in one hit under the right conditions.

All For One was terrified of Prime All Might to the point he hid Gigantomachia out of the fear he would lose, on top of kidnapping kids to raise as successors. He was not confident in fighting AM at all. AM was so strong that he just ran through attacks with minimal damage, a fighting style that worked due to One For All per AFO’s own words.

Them one shotting Mirko is irrelevant. She can kick their bodies apart, they are stronger than USJ Nomu, yet you claim Prime All Might is stronger than she is while saying USJ Nomu is comparable to him.

He one shots then with heat and is completely irrelevant to this discussion.

“Under the right conditions.”

Mirko ripped a High Ends head off with her thighs, after breaking the enhanced bones of another one by stomping on it, after kicking the flesh off of another one’s trunk and partially destroying another’s head. What “right conditions” are present here? She just kicks them and rips chunks out of their bodies with ease.

 

[TimmyTurnero]

Let's recap everything about what we know about All Might's level of power from the start;

1) All Might reveals his injury to Deku which he got 5 years ago from All For One. Because of this injury All Might can only maintain his hero activity for three hours a day. It isn't directly said here that All Might's usage of his Quirk is any weaker than prior to five years ago but there's an implication of it as he can't be a fulltime hero. All Might keeps the details of his injury secret.
If he were significantly weaker than usual, then this would be a harder secret to keep.

This is the first problem I have with this, this doesn’t have to be the case nor is this presented anywhere.
This falls under the assumption that All Might is always going all out during his prime. We don’t know any opponents that could push him to this degree, nor would he have any reason to do so naturally. At this time All Might is 60x stronger than his current state. If Deku’s 20% is deemed too hazardous to be used in a public area why would someone 60x stronger ever need to to use anything higher than? His strength at even his lowest stages would tear through cities so this argument makes no sense in it’s implications. No one should assume he’s using so much power than people can analyze and dictate that he’s dropping in power, this requires proof.

2) In the U.S.J. arc, All Might mentions that he's been steadily weakening since he passed on his Quirk to Izuku. This makes sense; since he's not actually in possession of the Quirk anymore he's working off of the embers that are left to him. He also claims to no longer be as fast as he used to be.

Agree

3) Aizawa compares the strength of the U.S.J. Nomu to All Might. At this point, All Might passing on his Quirk is a secret known only to a couple like the Principal and Tsukachi and we have no reason to believe Aizawa is aware that All Might is weakening. He has to be comparing the Nomu to what he knows of All Might.

Agree, but this is no indication that he has a proper indication of All Might’s highest tiers. All Might was just viral on the news for changing the weather and he made this classification off the fact that he was snapping his bones so casually. He says he snapped them as if they were twigs, he made this comparison due to the fact that this Nomu was so overwhelmingly powerful, like All Might. This doesn’t mean he’s quite aware of All Might’s power

4) Tomura points that when All Might shows up at the U.S.J., that his speed (while impressive) is not as fast as could be expected from All Might. He wonders if it is true that All Might is weakening. At this point, All Might had gone over his three hour time limit for using One For All.

This is true but whether All Might was going All out here or not is unknown.

5) Tomura claims that Nomu is as powerful as All Might is. And that Nomu is designed to withstand everything All Might has got.

True

6) All Might barely has a minute left available to him to use One For All; he claims to be weakening even more than before.

True

Here's where things get a bit weird;

7) All Might acknowledges that the Nomu is built to withstand everything he's got... So he forces himself to beyond his full power. Izuku, who personally witnessed All Might's 100% power up close, acknowledges that All Might is using his full strength here and that he's throwing out punches above 100%.

True

8) All Might states that "in my heyday, five of those punches would have been enough." But he had to use "over 300 hits just now."

True

9) After witnessing All Might's display of power, Tomura claims that All Might hasn't weakened at all. He also asserts to All For One that All Might seemed perfectly healthy, although All For One knows otherwise.

10) Dr. Garaki also claims that they went through a lot of trouble to make the U.S.J. Nomu as strong as All Might.

True

11) Tomura points out that 100% Izuku seemed to be as fast as All Might.

True

Some other statements we get;

12) Endeavour points out that Izuku's Quirk seems to be on par with All Might's Quirk after witnessing his 100% power finger-flick. This doesn't mean that what Izuku did was as strong as one of All Might's punches exactly, but Endeavor who knows All Might's strength as well as any pro hero should, thinks that Izuku's 100% is comparable to All Might and at this point he shouldn't have any reason to suspect that All Might is weakening.

Due to All Might nature of generating large pressure waves from movement alone, this is All Might level strength. Large shockwaves from movements, I don’t see why he would be aware of All Might weakening if there’s no individual he has seen All Might using higher power

13) This isn't directly related to All Might, but All For One clarifies that the three Hosu City Nomu are not on the same level as the U.S.J. Nomu despite one of the three Hosu City Nomu also being a Upper Tier Nomu, showing that even Nomu of the same class can have significant strength differences. This makes sense since Upper Tier Nomu are stated to be ten times stronger than ordinary people but the U.S.J. Nomu is drastically far above that kind of strength.

True

14) Izuku claims that his 100% Smash is All Might's power. He remembers that time that All Might surpassed 100% of his own power, and that allows him to do the same to defeat Muscular. He later recalls Muscular as the guy who could still stand after taking a 100% Smash.

True

15) All For One insinuates that All Might isn't as fast as he used to be judging by how long it took him to cross 5 kilometers after the Nomu were sent to his location.

True

16) All For One comments that All Might can't fight at full power against him, though the context is looking like All Might is restricted from causing too much collateral damage due to all the civilians in the area he has to protect.

True

17) All For One thinks that trading blows with All Might allowed him to finally confirm his suspicions that All Might gave his Quirk away and he's just been relying on the embers of One For All.

Trye

18) Izuku compares his Faux 100% to All Might's speed.

True

And now we add on the statements for Shigaraki and Star and Stripe from the last couple arcs:

19) Endeavour recognizes Tomura's manevourability in the air and his superhuman jumps as being "Just like... [All Might]".

True

20) Dr. Garaki claims that Tomura is "not quite on par with All Might, sadly."

True

21) Endeavour claims that Tomura is "as powerful and sturdy as All Might".

True

23) Star and Stripe claims that she can't power herself up to All Might's level, but she's "not too shabby".

True

24) Jeanist states that Tomura has speed on par with All Might in his prime.

True

25) Tomura warns the heroes against getting too close to him because it'll mean they're "in for an intimate taste of power on par with All Might's."

True

26) Tomura compares himself to All Might in his prime, in terms of toughness/durability. He questions the heroes asking if they think their last attack would have killed All Might in his prime.

Trye

27) The Hawks villain report claims that Shigaraki has physical ability on par with All Might in his heyday.

True

An extra statement I found in Vigilantes:

28) All For One states his intention to create an entity that can "face the mightiest hero head-on and force him to his knees through its individual might.", showing the original U.S.J. Nomu being created.

True

The movie graph;

29) We don't get an exact explanation of what the meaning of the graph is in the Two Heroes movie. We have to rely on our own interpretation a bit and align it to the info we're given in the manga;

• 6 years ago is the date that All Might had his fateful battle with All For One and sustained massive injuries. There is an initial drop of 2097 AP following his injury, which on a scale of 15,000 AP for Prime All Might's previous Quirk numbers means a drop of roughly 14%.
• Over the next 5+ years, All Might's Quirk numbers steadily dropped to about 8000 AP roughly. This would put him at roughly 53% of his original power by the time he meets Izuku.
• The next big drop is of 4158 AP, and this event must be him transferring One For All to Izuku and forcing him to rely on just the diminishing embers of One For All. After David questions how All Might's Quirk numbers could be dropping so drastically, All Might thinks to himself that he can't reveal the true nature of One For All to David showing that it is the fact that he transferred it away which explains the drop in Quirk numbers. This drop puts All Might at around 3000 AP or 1/5th of his original power that he had in his Prime.

Don’t know if its linear, what it’s referring to or how the performance is rated. Shouldn’t use this.

This is a ton of info to sort together about All Might's level of power throughout the manga and how different characters are compared to him. I'll try to point out some things that leap out to me right away:

• Several characters seemingly don't notice a substantial difference between All Might prior to his injury and All Might after his injury; this includes Endeavor who has an extremely long history with All Might, Tomura who after witnessing All Might defeat his Nomu thinks that All Might hasn't gotten any weaker, Aizawa who thinks that the Nomu overpowering him is comparable to All Might.

No one should know, as All Might hasn’t had a reason to use a substantial amount of power. I don’t see why this is a point being made.

• • Additionally, Endeavor considers 75% Shigaraki to be as powerful/sturdy/mobile as All Might based off his encounter in the PLW arc, and Jeanist claims that Shigaraki is as fast as All Might in his prime based off the battles during the PLW arc and the Star and Stripe arc.

Would this speed rating not come from the Star fight?

• • While it's possible that All Might simply never displayed his full strength to anyone at any point over his decades-long hero career... Why would he does this? Why would he always fight at no more than 1/60th of his full power?

Because he has no reason to? If we aren’t shown a reason for this we’re not gonna assert he probably has. It makes no sense.

• • Tomura claims that everyone should remember how durable All Might was during his prime... And Best Jeanist seemingly indicates that they know how fast All Might was in his prime. So why would the only stat that is excluded from their awareness be his strength in his prime?

Likely referring to All Might being just strong in general, he doesn’t if ask if they remember how durable he is, he’s just mocking them because they think this attack could actually kill All Might/himself. At this point EVERYONE is already aware that All Might was weakened and his speed rating is made clear from Deku’s own fuax. It seems to make more sense for them to base this knowledge off of Deku’s own speed.

• All For One and Dr. Garaki should have an extremely good idea of how strong All Might is. They believed that the U.S.J. Nomu they created is on par with All Might, and even in the Vigilantes manga, All For One stated his goal was to command a creature that could beat All Might with sheer physical might. If they created a Nomu who was 60x weaker than what All For One remembers All Might being like... then why would they have such confidence in it? Remember that All For One only had suspicions that All Might gave away his Quirk, and we don't know when he first had those suspicions. He may have only started to have them after hearing from Tomura that Izuku was just as fast as All Might.

Would this not just indicate that they were aware of how much he was dropping in power? They literally made him 1/1 equal to All Might, we know his Prime is strong enough to Tank attacks from this level of power with NO damage, so what sense does it make arguing this Nomu was relative to Prime AM when it’s shown near weakened All Might who would be one shotted by Prime AM?

• After he gave away his Quirk to Izuku, All Might lost over half of his "Quirk Numbers" that he had remaining according to David's graph. Yet despite that drop, All Might could fight with over 100% of his power that he displayed back before he had given his Quirk away to Deku... He was actively weakening as the seconds went by, and remember that one blow from the Nomu could seemingly badly damage All Might and knock him back. And because he used so much power, Tomura second-guesses his earlier assessment of All Might and thinks that All Might isn't any weaker after all. So essentially, it can be seen as:

This goes back to us NOT knowing what these numbers are based off of, whether its linear, based off power or the amount of energy the quirk has in the body. We know NOTHING.

• • Prime All Might ~ Plus Ultra All Might (U.S.J. Arc) >>> 100% All Might in Ch. 1 >>> All Might (U.S.J. Arc)

No lol.

However, this is seemingly contradicted by the notion that All Might claims he is slowing down because "in his heyday" he would have beaten the U.S.J. Nomu in 5 hits, not the over 300 hits that it actually took to beat the U.S.J. Nomu. At face value, I understand the logic of "It took All Might 300+ hits to 'fill up' the Nomu's Energy Absorption limit and Prime All Might would have taken 5 hits to 'fill up' the Nomu's Energy Absorption limit, so Prime All Might is 60x more powerful than this one."

But what if the 300 hits weren't just for the Energy Absorption? Part of this page that leaps out to me is that Kirishima says:

- "He just smashed his way past the absorption. The ultimate bruiser... And against that power... the regeneration wasn't able to keep up with that rush of attacks..."

after he burst through the attack he couldn’t regenerate from the punches that knocked him out…?

If all 300 punches did nothing to the Nomu itself until the very last punch because all of the energy of All Might's blows were being absorbed... then why this sentence? The regeneration wouldn't factor into it at all... unless All Might was dealing some amount of damage with his rush of attacks. Since the Nomu is described as a "sandbag that can withstand everything you've got", and All Might's response to that is to "go beyond that" then this lines up. The U.S.J. Nomu can absorb 100% All Might's strikes... but Plus Ultra All Might is more than he can absorb. By surpassing the Nomu's limits, All Might is able to deal some damage to the Nomu with his barrage of attacks which stacks up faster than the Nomu's regeneration can deal with until the Nomu gets blasted out of the area. What this means is that an attack that's more powerful than his Plus Ultra punches would've had all that extra power be delivered straight to the Nomu as direct damage. If for example 95% of Plus Ultra All Might's punches were getted absorbed by the Nomu's Quirk, then a punch that is 5x stronger than that would have had only 19% of its energy be absorbed, making each blow 16 times more damaging.

What?

 

[Damage3245]

All For One was terrified of Prime All Might to the point he hid Gigantomachia out of the fear he would lose, on top of kidnapping kids to raise as successors. He was not confident in fighting AM at all. AM was so strong that he just ran through attacks with minimal damage, a fighting style that worked due to One For All per AFO’s own words.

Them one shotting Mirko is irrelevant. She can kick their bodies apart, they are stronger than USJ Nomu, yet you claim Prime All Might is stronger than she is while saying USJ Nomu is comparable to him.

He one shots then with heat and is completely irrelevant to this discussion.

“Under the right conditions.”

Mirko ripped a High Ends head off with her thighs, after breaking the enhanced bones of another one by stomping on it, after kicking the flesh off of another one’s trunk and partially destroying another’s head. What “right conditions” are present here? She just kicks them and rips chunks out of their bodies with ease.

Fair points.

We can discuss more specifics for scaling issues after we establish if the multiplier is valid or not.

 

[ShigarakiShimura]

Fair points.

We can discuss more specifics for scaling issues after we establish if the multiplier is valid or not.

So what's your stance after this? Are you neutral or agree now? Or do you still disagree with it?

 

[Damage3245]

So what's your stance after this? Are you neutral or agree now? Or do you still disagree with it?

I disagree with the validity of the 60x multiplier.

As for what specific ratings the characters should actually have, I'll reserve judgement on that for now.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Fair points.

We can discuss more specifics for scaling issues after we establish if the multiplier is valid or not.

So you’re not actually going to address them? Ok.

Then that’s up to other people to decide what option for the 300 punches we’re supposed to go with, as well as if the 60x is applicable or not.

Whether “he was doing chip damage through the absorption limit that was too fast to heal with regen” or “he was doing damage to reach absorptions max energy limit.”

 

[ShigarakiShimura]

I disagree with the validity of the 60x multiplier.

As for what specific ratings the characters should actually have, I'll reserve judgement on that for now.

Hm, okay now I don't even understand why you would disagree at all. I can at the very least understand why you would be neutral at most. But what reasoning do you possibly have now for disagreeing?

 

[Damage3245]

Hm, okay now I don't even understand why you would disagree at all. I can at the very least understand why you would be neutral at most. But what reasoning do you possibly have now for disagreeing?

My large post above has my reasons for that.

 

[ShigarakiShimura]

So you’re not actually going to address them? Ok.

Then that’s up to other people to decide what option for the 300 punches we’re supposed to go with, as well as if the 60x is applicable or not.

Whether “he was doing chip damage through the absorption limit that was too fast to heal with regen” or “he was doing damage to reach absorptions max energy limit.”

Haven't we already gone through the last thing like 2 pages ago? It's clear which one is more reasonable just through basic logic and occams razor.

 

[ShigarakiShimura]

My large post above has my reasons for that.

Well I'll assume you didn't see but I and 2 other people responded to that. So when you're done reading those please respond if you have the time. Or at the very least just give us your opinion after you're done reading them.

 

[Damage3245]

So you’re not actually going to address them? Ok.

All I'll say for now is that one possible reason why the performance of the High-Ends appears so bad against Mirko is because they were hastily awakened without time to stabilize. The doctor says they "should" be strong enough in a pinch which implies they could be even stronger given enough proper time.

I'll stress that's just a possibility though because I'm not fully convinced by that alone.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

All I'll say for now is that one possible reason why the performance of the High-Ends appears so bad against Mirko is because they were hastily awakened without time to stabilize. The doctor says they "should" be strong enough in a pinch which implies they could be even stronger given enough proper time.

I'll stress that's just a possibility though because I'm not fully convinced by that alone.

The stabilization is for their intelligence not physical bodies. In the same vein, the Near High Ends, which are so far from done they can’t even stabilize, are as strong as Hood, who was fully stabilized. That’s for their intelligence and combat skill not statistics.

 

[ShigarakiShimura]

We need more mods in here to vote or at the very least comment just saying. There's like only 2 or 3 rn

 

[Damage3245]

We need more mods in here to vote or at the very least comment just saying. There's like only 2 or 3 rn

I did tag the ones who had voted already, and some knowledgeable individuals who have been mostly neutral so far.

 

[ShigarakiShimura]

I did tag the ones who had voted already, and some knowledgeable individuals who have been mostly neutral so far.

We need some more mods

 

[Nierre]

I love how the responses to Damages big post have 90% just been "True True True. Agree Agree Agree"

 

[ShigarakiShimura]

I love how the responses to Damages big post have 90% just been "True True True. Agree Agree Agree"

I mean, most of his post is just saying that "this statement exists" so of course. All the important bits or actual arguments are clearly blown away.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

I love how the responses to Damages big post have 90% just been "True True True. Agree Agree Agree"

90% of his post is scans from the manga that say what is commonly known, just all put together in one post. Like, what do you say to “this is a statement that exists” other than “ok.”

 

[Damage3245]

I love how the responses to Damages big post have 90% just been "True True True. Agree Agree Agree"

To be fair, the majority of my post is not an argument but primarily a recap of the statements from the series. I wasn't expecting people to pick them apart line by line, haha.

 

[Nierre]

I'm not denying it... I just found it funny

 

[ShigarakiShimura]

Unless damage has any refutations to the replies against his large post, I think that we should now be tagging mods that are knowledgeable in mha because it doesn't seem like they're seeing this discussion and
we need more votes/opinions.

 

[InvisibleInternetMan]

I agree with the 60x multiplier

 

[ShigarakiShimura]

After we implement the 60× prime allmight multiplier should we make a seperate page for prime allmight? Like we have for final act and pre-final act deku.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

IF we implement it.

And no, he doesn’t need a new profile. Nothing is different enough to warrant that, he’ll just be a different rating than his weakened self, like we already have it.

 

[ShigarakiShimura]

IF we implement it.

And no, he doesn’t need a new profile. Nothing is different enough to warrant that, he’ll just be a different rating than his weakened self, like we already have it.

Oh okay, got it

 

[Therefir]

I have been meaning to ask, since All Might from the first chapter (who still have One For All) and the All Might from the USJ Battle (more than 10 months later) have about the same level of power, with USJ All Might being able to draw more power than when he had the Quirk, then when exactly did he lose this 60x power difference? Do people really want me to believe he lost all of that power after the injury and not after giving up his Quirk?

I'm more inclined to believe Weakened All Might is not that much weaker than he was in his prime.

Plus I don't like arguments like "Kirashima isn't a good source for this" or "Shigaraki would have no knowledge of prime allmights strengh" brother in Christ, Horikoshi hasn't gave us a single reason to doubt any of these statements, in fact, Aizawa knew USJ Nomu was on All Might's level before he even fought AM, the statements are there as a way for the author to deliver information to us.

So if Kirishima said the USJ Nomu was being hurt and was regenerating before the Shock Absorption had reached its limit, then we have no reason to doubt him.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

I have been meaning to ask, since All Might from the first chapter (who still have One For All) and the All Might from the USJ Battle (more than 10 months later) have about the same level of power, with USJ All Might being able to draw more power than when he had the Quirk, then when exactly did he lose this 60x power difference? Do people really want me to believe he lost all of that power after the injury and not after giving up his Quirk?

I'm more inclined to believe Weakened All Might is not that much weaker than he was in his prime.

Plus I don't like arguments like "Kirashima isn't a good source for this" or "Shigaraki would have no knowledge of prime allmights strengh" brother in Christ, Horikoshi hasn't gave us a single reason to doubt any of these statements, in fact, Aizawa knew USJ Nomu was on All Might's level before he even fought AM, the statements are there as a way for the author to deliver information to us.

So if Kirishima said the USJ Nomu was being hurt and was regenerating before the Shock Absorption had reached its limit, then we have no reason to doubt him.

He gave away OFA between chapter 1 and the USJ fight. He remarks that he’s getting far weaker ever since he gave it away to Midoriya, and as the graph you agree with shows, he had a SECOND massive dip in power that was even worse than the first dip he got from his injury. And that second dip is the time he gave it away to Deku, which is why David Shield is completely stunned that his “numbers” have fallen so drastically.

So USJ All Might is massively weaker than Chapter 1 All Might.

 

[Therefir]

The idea of characters somehow not knowing the strength and speed of Prime AM seems ridiculous to me when there are so many statements that use that very same AM.

Might as well say Hawks's report about Shigaraki being Prime AM level is wrong because he also doesn't have a way to know if Prime AM was holding back (even though we have no reason to believe of any of that BS).

I just see this as an argument from incredulity just to apply a multiplier that simply doesn't exist.

So I think Damage actually have very good reasons to disagree with this multiplier, you can put me on disagree with both multipliers.

 

[ShigarakiShimura]

He gave away OFA between chapter 1 and the USJ fight. He remarks that he’s getting far weaker ever since he gave it away to Midoriya, and as the graph you agree with shows, he had a SECOND massive dip in power that was even worse than the first dip he got from his injury. And that second dip is the time he gave it away to Deku, which is why David Shield is completely stunned that his “numbers” have fallen so drastically.

So USJ All Might is massively weaker than Chapter 1 All Might.

Also Davis shields graph takes place way after allmight gave away ofa so he would be way weaker then his fugh with the nomu. He also would be way weaker after the figh with the nomu which made him only be able to do only 1 hour of hero when he used to be able 3 hours.

 

[Therefir]

He gave away OFA between chapter 1 and the USJ fight. He remarks that he’s getting far weaker ever since he gave it away to Midoriya, and as the graph you agree with shows, he had a SECOND massive dip in power that was even worse than the first dip he got from his injury. And that second dip is the time he gave it away to Deku, which is why David Shield is completely stunned that his “numbers” have fallen so drastically.

So USJ All Might is massively weaker than Chapter 1 All Might.

He just said he is weakening, we don't know how much, and I don't care what the chart says, we still don't know what those Quirk numbers actually mean.

The fact is that it was explicitly stated that All Might was using more power against the USJ Nomu than during the punch in the first chapter that changed the weather, which was 100% of his power.

 

[Damage3245]

So USJ All Might is massively weaker than Chapter 1 All Might.

According to Izuku, U.S.J. All Might can also be stronger than Chapter 1 All Might.

Hence why we have Tomura initially thinking that All Might has slowed down and got weaker... then he sees All Might fighting seriously and doubts that All Might is weaker at all.

 

[ShigarakiShimura]

I have been meaning to ask, since All Might from the first chapter (who still have One For All) and the All Might from the USJ Battle (more than 10 months later) have about the same level of power, with USJ All Might being able to draw more power than when he had the Quirk, then when exactly did he lose this 60x power difference? Do people really want me to believe he lost all of that power after the injury and not after giving up his Quirk?

I'm more inclined to believe Weakened All Might is not that much weaker than he was in his prime.

That just doesn't make sense. The injury literally made him only be able do to 3 hours of hero work. That's an insane drop, whilst after giving his quirk away AND getting weakened by the nomu he could still do 1 hour of hero work. Clearly the initial injury is the main culprit.

And just the basic idea of prime allmight and weakened allmight being close to each other doesn't make sense. Since if the U.S.J. was already almost relative to prime allmight then what does that make the high end nomus which are way stronger? And then what does that make characters like mirko and endeavor that can kill and mutilate those high end nomus. And then what does that make apex shigaraki who can shit on those characters without getting scratched? Prime allmight is clearly shown to be an incredible level of power in its own league, since the only and first time we got a character compared to him is apex shigaraki. All the other times characters are compared to allmight it's just allmight not prime allmight. But EVERY SINGLE TIME apex shigaraki is compared to allmight its PRIME allmight. That means something.

 

[Therefir]

According to Izuku, U.S.J. All Might can also be stronger than Chapter 1 All Might.

Hence why we have Tomura initially thinking that All Might has slowed down and got weaker... then he sees All Might fighting seriously and doubts that All Might is weaker at all.

Just wait for it: "Deku also isn't a good source for this because blah blah blah my head canon is stronger than in-verse statements".

In-verse statements that were written by the author himself as a way of conveying information and not for a random fan to pick it as a lie.

 

[Damage3245]

That just doesn't make sense. The injury literally made him only be able do to 3 hours of hero work. That's an insane drop, whilst after giving his quirk AND getting weakened by the nomus he scould still do 1 hour. Clearly the initial injury is the main culprit.

That's a drop on the amount of time he can be active as a hero. Not necessarily proportional with how much strength/durability/speed that he lost.

And just tye basic idea of prime allmight and weakened allmight being close to each other doesn't make sense. Since if the U.S.J. was already almost relative to prime allmight then what does that make the high end nomus which are way stronger?

The High-End Nomu are not stated to be way stronger than the U.S.J. Nomu. Not to the point they dwarf it in stats.

And then what does that make characters like mirko and endeavor that can kill and mutilate those high end nomus.

That'd let you know that the gap isn't that big.

All the other times people are compared to allmight it's just allmight not prime allmight. But EVERY SINGLE TIME apex shigaraki is compared to allmight its PRIME allmight.

How do you know that they're compared to "just" All Might? Those statements never specify that they're referring to a weakened version of All Might.

 

[Therefir]

Snip

And? What does the time limit he can use his Quirk have anything to do with the power he can wield? The very graph you are using for support shows an even bigger drop after All Might gave up his Quirk, a drop that doesn't actually exist because USJ AM actually used more power than before giving up his Quirk and weakening for nearly a year.

And, who said the High-Ends are "way" stronger than the USJ Nomu? The doctor just stated they have higher stats, so where are you getting this massive difference from them?

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

Maybe his power was kept near prime but he coudn't use the form that much? Haven't read the manga just offering a possible explanation.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

From the graph, he’s already way weaker than his prime, but then he has another drop in power that is damn near comparable to that drop in power + the years that followed it.

He went from around 15000 to 8000 over 5 years. He then dropped from 8000 to barely 3500. That is a massive decrease that stuns David, regardless of what the numbers mean, the loss of OFA was nearly equal to 5 years of deterioration.

You can claim the number mean nothing, but at the very least, his health and general power has declined massively in comparison to his injury.

The idea of characters somehow not knowing the strength and speed of Prime AM seems ridiculous to me when there are so many statements that use that very same AM.

Might as well say Hawks's report about Shigaraki being Prime AM level is wrong because he also doesn't have a way to know if Prime AM was holding back (even though we have no reason to believe of any of that BS).

I just see this as an argument from incredulity just to apply a multiplier that simply doesn't exist.

So I think Damage actually have very good reasons to disagree with this multiplier, you can put me on disagree with both multipliers.

How is it from incredulity?

Do you believe Prime All Might can one shot his Weakened self? Or do you believe AFO and Garaki made USJ Nomu and completely fumbled on making him “as strong as All Might”? Multipliers are irrelevant here, I’m asking for your logic.

The High Ends are even stronger than USJ Nomu but get one shot by Mirko, who cannot damage Prime AM level Shigaraki. So what’s the logic here? How strong are Mirko and Shigaraki? Why didntGaraki claim Mirko is stronger than AM if he saw her one shotting his AM level creations or no?

He just said he is weakening, we don't know how much, and I don't care what the chart says, we still don't know what those Quirk numbers actually mean.

The fact is that it was explicitly stated that All Might was using more power against the USJ Nomu than during the punch in the first chapter that changed the weather, which was 100% of his power.

The chart is reaffirming what we know: he got weaker from losing OFA. It simply is putting a graph that shows that dip in power was almost as bad as 5 whole years with his injury.

The punch that changed the weather was ALSO over 100% of his power, they were the same punch not different. All Might states that he went over his limit when referencing the slime villain, that punch was not a normal 100% punch, hence why Deku flashes back. Despite being way weaker than before, All Might is throwing out those same level of attacks, so we have a discrepancy here of him getting weaker but still able to conjure enough power, by pushing himself, that is way higher than what he should be capable of.

His “Plus Ultra” strength is not comparable to his Prime strength as it being WEAKER than his Prime is the entire point. His Prime could defeat Nomu in 5 hits, but his Plus Ultra punches are dealing so little damage, REGARDLESS of what option or believe you have about shock absorption, that he needs 300 of them to do the job. To claim he is comparable to his prime with those Plus Ultra punches, when he says those punches are massively inferior to his true Prime punches, is just being ridiculous and ignoring what’s even happening in the fight.

Just wait for it: "Deku also isn't a good source for this because blah blah blah my head canon is stronger than in-verse statements".

In-verse statements that were written by the author himself as a way of conveying information and not for a random fan to pick it as a lie.

What is up with you…? I haven’t said anything like this, and none of what I’m proposing is some headcanon. I have issues with the logic presented when you stacked these “All Might level” statements against each other. How the hell does All For One claim USJ Nomu is as strong as All Might, make stronger versions of him with High Ends, but never say they’re stronger than All Might?

How does Endeavor fight Hood and not remark that Hood is physically comparable to All Might?

How does Mirko one shot High Ends, but not remark that they are All Might level? But when she kicks Shigaraki, he is completely unfazed?

How does Shigaraki’s movements spark Endeavor to claim he’s comparable to All Might, with Eraser further confirming this by flashing back to the USJ and High Ends, but the doctor is claiming he’s actually weaker?

How is he stronger than the High Ends, but weaker than All Might if USJ Nomu is as strong as All Might?

Why is Star not as strong as All Might, but a stronger 97% Shigaraki isn’t stronger than her if he’s even stronger than the High Ends?

How can Prime AM level Shigaraki one tank attacks from people that can hurt High Ends if Prime AM isn’t that much stronger than his weakened self, who was hurt by USJ Nomu, who is weaker than High Ends?

These are the questions I find myself asking every single time about these “All Might level” stat memes and NO ONE seems to give a concrete answer about ANY of them.

I don’t care about the multiplier as much as others in this thread, like you’re trying to hamfistedly and insultingly insinuate. I care about the consistency.

If everyone is god damn All Might level, but some people claim others are AM level while ignoring others who can literally damage those characters, what in the absolute hell is our conclusion? Which version of AM is correct? Which statement were more accurate than others? Why are people that know AM’s strength making creatures on par with that strength but then not bringing up that strength again? Why are people that have followed his career and seemingly know his strength not commenting on other characters having that exact same strength if not higher?

Does anyone else see how much of a problem is being caused by AM statements in general?

 

[ShigarakiShimura]

That's a drop on the amount of time he can be active as a hero. Not necessarily proportional with how much strength/durability/speed that he lost.

Yeah I'm sure being able to use your power only for 3 hours after an injury isn't indicative of your physical capabilities.

The High-End Nomu are not stated to be way stronger than the U.S.J. Nomu. Not to the point they dwarf it in stats.

If the U.S.J. nomu is already relative to prime allmight logically the high end nomus would be almost equal. And garaki, the creator of nomus, literally says that the high end nomus stand above all other tiers of nomu. With stats beyond those of the upper tier nomus.

That'd let you know that the gap isn't that big.

Clearly not true

How do you know that they're compared to "just" All Might? Those statements never specify that they're referring to a weakened version of All Might.

Exactly, they never specify if it's weakened or prime allmight. But for apex shigaraki, literally the strongest in the verse behind deku, they clearly specify PRIME allmight, why is that? I mean, clearly as you say prime allmight isn't that much more impressive than weakened allmight right? So why do they even bother to mention such a distinction? Interesting...

 

[Kingofwolves999]

If AFO believes USJ Nomu is as strong as Prime All Might, then he believes that High Ends are comparable to that strength.

That means that Mirko can one shot Prime All Might in AFO’s eyes, but when she fights someone claiming to be Prime All Might level, she does no damage.

Endeavor claims Shigaraki is as strong as All Might with flashes from Eraser that he’s comparable to a complete Nomu, but Garaki says he’s not quite there.

Shigaraki then gets stronger and fights Star who is also not quite All Might level and is weaker than her.

Someone let me know what the hell conculsuons we’re supposed to be drawing from all this. Is USJ Nomu Prime All Might level or no. Are High Ends Prime All Might level or no. Can Mirko one shot Prime All Might, what even is Prime All Might, why is Plus Ultra Weakened All Might weaker than Prime All Might but people claim he’s the same.

I am so over the name “All Might” right now I’m giving Shigaraki a run for his ******* money with my hate.