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It's not a form, he's just flexing his muscles. And he literally starts bleeding after he goes past or close to the 3 hour limit. Understandable if you haven't read the manga tho.
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Prime All Might Multiplier - Possible Discussion Thread Rule Addition After?
- Thread starter Kingofwolves999
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Maybe a big difference of power between weakened allmight and prime allmight would solve most of this issues... Just a thought.
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- #363
Either LITERALLY EVERYONE knows how strong Prime All Might is or NO ONE does at this point because we have literally 30+ GOD DAMN STATEMENTS about his power that are conflicting.
I’m down to remove literally every statement from every character about his power at this point because things are just getting asinine and circular with no clear answer EVER being presented
I’m down to remove literally every statement from every character about his power at this point because things are just getting asinine and circular with no clear answer EVER being presented
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- Thread starter
- #364
Also; if Plus Ultra USJ All Might is stronger than Chapter 1 All Might…
How the absolute hell is chapter 1 All Might comparable to Prime All Might if he would take even more than 300 punches to defeat Nomu.
How the absolute hell is chapter 1 All Might comparable to Prime All Might if he would take even more than 300 punches to defeat Nomu.
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It seems like the 2 options are, Mirko can mutilate prime allmight and or even kill him. Which then also gets contradicted by not even being able to affect apex shigaraki who is clearly prime allmight level. Or there's a big difference between weakened allmight and prime allmight, and through that we get to the logical mathematical conclusion given by allmight himsel of a 60× multiplier.
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My issue is WHY ARE PEOPLE THAT KNOW HIS POWER SAYING OTHERS ARE COMPARABLE.
Why the HELL is AFO saying USJ Nomu is as strong as Prime All Might, but then NEVER commenting on the NUMEROUS heroes out there than can fight his High Ends?!?!? Why is Shigaraki becoming Prime AM level relevant at ALL if USJ Nomu is already that strong?!? Where is the god damn logic?!?
Why the HELL is AFO saying USJ Nomu is as strong as Prime All Might, but then NEVER commenting on the NUMEROUS heroes out there than can fight his High Ends?!?!? Why is Shigaraki becoming Prime AM level relevant at ALL if USJ Nomu is already that strong?!? Where is the god damn logic?!?
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Hey there wait a second. AFO never says the U.S.J. nomu is prime allmight level. He only says allmight. And AFOs whole plan was based on fighting a weakened allmight. It all works out.
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That's if we accept a big difference between prime and weakened allmight. Which is clear.
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Basically, what I gather is that if everyone is "prime all might" level then there so no point in the "prime" all might conversations and distinction.
Yeah, it seems like the opposition against the OP thus the 60x multiplier create more contradictions and problems than just accepting that Prime All Might is simply built different.
This CRT is already 4 pages and all the points have been gone over already. I think it's best to not drag this out anymore.
Yeah, it seems like the opposition against the OP thus the 60x multiplier create more contradictions and problems than just accepting that Prime All Might is simply built different.
This CRT is already 4 pages and all the points have been gone over already. I think it's best to not drag this out anymore.
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The thread has been open for four days... That's minor numbers when it comes to VSBW threads. In no way is it dragged out.
I get the feeling that you're just speaking hyperbolically here for a effect, but there's no reason to be angry or this frustrated. No solution here is utterly perfect and without flaws.
We're just trying to do the best with the information that's given to us.
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- #371
This isn’t remotely dragged out at all, I’m expecting this to keep going for a good while.
The main issue I’M now faced with is the absolutely insane inconsistency of how people view All Might’s power.
Whether there is a 60x gap or a 5x gap or no gap or whatever, there are so many conflicting statements vs feats of how strong this guy is supposed to be that I’m going insane.
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The problem is, that every single counter argument has been debunked, and simply recycled stuff from old threads. So in this case it just is dragged out. If there were some new stuff never before brought up again, then sure. But haven't seen anything of the like.
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Sorry, but the difference of numbers of contradictions between a 60× multiplier and no multiplier is ridiculous. Having a 60× multiplier solves as far as I know basically all contradictions. Maybe there's 1 or 2 at most that don't come to mind to me rn.
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- #374
But which solution even is that? Do we have to have a separate CRT to decide which people are more accurate about his strength than others? Who would even be accurate about that? Has Horikoshi just forgotten how strong he made Prime AM? He put the “I’d beat him in 5 punches vs 300 punches” statement right before “yeah Nomu is as strong as All Might” from AFO himself, that makes NO SENSE.
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Well, if staff aren't convinced by the "debunks" than there's not much we can do here.
We can't even be on the same page about how the Energy Absorption Quirk works.
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To each their own. For me it certainly feels dragged out.
Fair enough...I guess? I mean I don't really like CRTs that are 10 pages long and I usually just end them quickly, so I guess I'm not used to it lol
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The solution (for the time being) is to treat it like this;
Finishing the fight in 60x less attacks does not mean each attack is 60x more powerful.
The manga is still ongoing, the final fights with All For One and Tomura are still ongoing... We can just wait for more information to be given to us.
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Again why are we taking every allmight statement as meaning PRIME allmight??? It's always been clearly stated when a character is prime allmight level.
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No no no. They only argument left for there not being a 60x multiplier is that the shock absorption doesn't actually absorb all of the shock.
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- #380
Except the main argument FOR all these statements, which you went out and got, is that the gap can’t be that large to be 60x.
But now we have “Prime AM level Shigaraki” running around showing that a 60x difference is absolutely possible.
But then that circles back to why on earth would AFO claim something is “as strong as All Might” if he knows Prime All Might’s power? Why would he ever say that and not expect it to be on par with the All Might he fought? Was he just sandbagging it for fun?
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Also, as a sidenote. Saying that characters that can't perceive things can't perceive those things is not insane
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My man, again. What's with conflating allmight with prime allmight?
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My main argument is actually about the statements for how the Shock Absorption Quirk works.
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@Kingofwolves999 @ShigarakiShimura Instead of making multiple single sentence comments, please either just edit in additional info into one comment or wait to air out all of your feeling. Multi-posting just clutters a thread up.
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Okay then we should have stuck to that argument
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- #386
But even if we use the “overlapping/per punch argument,” that still means that such a massive gap exists between Plus Ultra All Might and Prime All Might, that the damage carried over from Plus Ultra All Might needs to happen over 300 times for it to equal the damage carried over from Prime All Might’s 5 punches. So even THEN it doesn’t make sense.
So if 1 damage carries over, and Nomu has 300 health, that means Prime All Might’s damage must be carrying at the least 60 damage over for him to win in 5 punches.
Apologies, I was expressing some frustration over a now incomprehensible mess of statements from reliable characters and feats that for some reason go ignored in the verse.
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Okay I don't know if somehow my replies don't pop up, but can we PLEASE stop conflating allmight with prime allmight. Saying a character is allmight level doesn't mean they're prime allmight level. The only prime allmight level we have is directly stated to be PRIME allmight level (shigaraki). That clearly means something. That something being a distinction between allmight level characters and prime allmight level characters. The U.S.J. Nomu statement of it being allmight level by AFO is NOT a contradiction (if you accept a big difference between prime and weakened allmight and thus the multiplier that is)
Thank you.
Thank you.
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I'm not sure what's your point? The first "gap down" of 2097 was from his injury from AFO, a difference of only 1.16 times (showing that he didn't lose that much power from the injury itself).
Then he gradually lose that power over the next years, down to 7500, a difference of 2 times, until he gave up his Quirk to Deku, where he experiences a massive gap down of 4158, confirming us once again that he lose more power after giving up his Quirk than after gaining the injury, and it makes sense, the Quirk is the most important part of his power.
But surprise, the All Might who has lost more than two-thirds of his "Quirk numbers" and doesn't even have the Quirk anymore.... can actually summon more power before that massive gap down.
Yes that's correct, the All Might who lost even more power compared to Prime AM after the injury and many years can still summon more power after the gap down.
And what I'm trying to say with this? AM from Chapter 1 should be able to summon the same or even more power than his prime by going plus ultra, showing that the difference between his prime and his injured state is not that great (unless you think he can summon 60x times more power than normal by going Plus Ultra, Imao).
Have you ever thought about the possibility of All Might being more durable than the USJ Nomu without the Shock Absorption? Think about it, according to your logic, the USJ Nomu didn't receive any damage at all up until the very last punch that surpassed the limit of his Shock Absorption and broke the Nomu's face and had his eyes blank (knock out) meaning that this Nomu actually got one-shotted by AM's last punch according to you.
And before you say the High-Ends durability would just scale above the USJ's AP because of taking the recoil of their hits, I remind you that the USJ Nomu's punches only bruised and hurt All Might's skin, while AM's last punch after surpassing the Shock Absorption limit knocked out the Nomu, meaning that someone stronger than the Nomu wouldn't be able to cause the same damage Mirko can to the High-Ends.
What I'm trying to say is, AM's durability>>USJ Nomu's durability without Shock Absorption<High-Ends that fought Mirko.
The fact that AM can still tank the recoil of his Plus Ultra punches confirms his durability is higher than his AP (unless going Plus Ultra increased his durability somehow).
Excuse me? How is going from 15,000 to 7,500 over the years, "almost as bad" as losing two-thirds of your power in an instant (7500>2500)?
It's no discrepancy, the situation simply warranted All Might summoning more power than he did almost a year ago in the story, by going Plus Ultra he can bridge the gap of his weakening, a gap that at no time was said to be immense.
Stop treating every moment in the series as a discrepancy of your multiplier, Imao the only discrepancy is the multiplier itself.
They can be stronger AM normally, but once he goes beyond his limits he can easily surpass them all, plus I still think AM is more durable than any of the High-Ends, after all the statement was only about AM's normal strength, not Plus Ultra AM neither his durability was involved on those statements.
Why would he need to do that? It's already stated his stats surpass the Nomu that... Bruised AM a bit Imao.
One-shotting High-Ends doesn't mean she could one-shot weakened AM. It makes sense how a Prime AM level character could tank her kicks.
The doctor was referring to his prime, plus his statement implies Shigaraki is not that much weaker either.
Endeavor is the only one that confirms Shigaraki is as tough as AM, even though he can one-shot High-Ends left and right, even Endeavor admits AM is more durable than the High-Ends, so once again this confirms Mirko wouldn't be able to one-shot even a weakened AM.
The only meme I see here is this multiplier that goes against logic and most statements in-verse, it's not my fault you are unable to find answers to those questions.
So yep, my answers to your questions is that AM is simply built differently, strength and durability are not the same thing, High-Ends might have a strength on the level of AM, which can bruise him, but that doesn't mean they are as durable as him, like Shigaraki actually is (this explains why Endeavor's Prominence Burn or Hell Spider can't one-shot or cut apart Shiggy like they did to Hood, and why Endeavor can take hits from Shiggy without dying).
On a side note, I don't understand why you think using the story's "discrepancies" (at least on your view) would somehow support this 60x multiplier, I'm confused.
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So your overall claim is just… Nomu are so less durable than their AP that they can one shot themselves, while All Might is so much durable than himself that he can tank one shots?
That Weakend AM post giving away OFA is the exact same strength as his Prime?
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Source please?
Also, Endeavor one shotting High-Ends is with sheer heat and has nothing to do with physical durability.
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The Nomu's AP allows him to bruise All Might, so he just needs enough durability to take the recoil of those hits. That's my argument.
And All Might? He can go Plus Ultra and still take the recoil of his punches, which were able to break USJ Nomu's face.
So, Nomu=All Might<<Plus Ultra AM<=All Might's durability.
Nope, Weakend AM is weaker than his Injured State, just not that weaker, and by going Plus Ultra he can summon a strength comparable and even above his Injured State.
So naturally, an Injured AM would be able to summon strength comparable to his Prime self by going Plus Ultra.
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The nomu also dug in allmights sides, not just bruise him.
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Ok so here’s the problem: Kamino AFO can hurt All Might.
You’re claiming Kamino AFO is equal in AP to Plus Ultra USJ All Might’s durability… which means 97% Shigaraki should be even stronger than Plus Ultra USJ All Might… but he’s actually weaker because Star also isn’t as strong as All Might but is stronger than him.
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Serlock_Holmes
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The very existence of the statement by all might means that there is something to his stats though.
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Bruh
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What does breaking the bones of a High-End have anything to do with heat?
I meant to say "imply", since well, Endeavor never made that claim for any of the High-Ends.
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Yes... I'm not denying that Prime All Might is stronger to some degree. But all of the context and other statements indicate that the gap is not as high as 60x.
Again, it's not like All Might explicitly said "I was sixty times stronger in my prime." If that was the wording of it, or it was similar to that, then we'd have something solid to work with.
We have multiple characters not noticing a substantial drop in All Might's performance, All For One makes Nomu who he thinks stands a chance against All Might, and Endeavor recognizes post-surgery Shigaraki's physical abilities as being on par with All Might.
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Guess I should give my opinion on the multipliers.
60x: Completely disagrees with it. I feel like others have explained it better than myself, the 300 versus 60 hits can be explained away in simple terms that doesn't have All Might as 60x weaker than his prime self. So you can put me down for disagreement there.
Two Heroes Graph: I'm pretty much neutral on it, I feel like those numbers don't have to be linear. Personally not a fan of it, but I'm not going to disagree or get in the way of it because I don't like it myself. I completely understand why the people who support it does so.
Also, I'll talk about All Might's durability as well.
AFO's Air Cannon leaves obvious injuries on All Might, and All Might can cancel that same Air Cannon with his own strength. The USJ Nomu can also hurt All Might with his strikes, leaving a pretty large bruise on his arm and is confirmed multiple times to be equal to All Might in strength.
All Might just has a stupid amount of endurance and pain tolerance.
60x: Completely disagrees with it. I feel like others have explained it better than myself, the 300 versus 60 hits can be explained away in simple terms that doesn't have All Might as 60x weaker than his prime self. So you can put me down for disagreement there.
Two Heroes Graph: I'm pretty much neutral on it, I feel like those numbers don't have to be linear. Personally not a fan of it, but I'm not going to disagree or get in the way of it because I don't like it myself. I completely understand why the people who support it does so.
Also, I'll talk about All Might's durability as well.
AFO's Air Cannon leaves obvious injuries on All Might, and All Might can cancel that same Air Cannon with his own strength. The USJ Nomu can also hurt All Might with his strikes, leaving a pretty large bruise on his arm and is confirmed multiple times to be equal to All Might in strength.
All Might just has a stupid amount of endurance and pain tolerance.
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