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Prime All Might Multiplier - Possible Discussion Thread Rule Addition After?

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Damage3245 said:
Ah, my bad, I forgot that Izuku wasn't in 100%.

So, if say Izuku was using 45% there, then All For One's monologue of "Has he gotten stronger?!" could be referring to the difference between 45% Izuku in the PLW arc and this Fa Jin-enhanced 45% Izuku who hit All For One/Shigaraki. With the explanation being that he had gotten stronger with the use of Fa Jin.
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Assuming he’s using 45%, that is a possibility. Though I would think the incredulity is more so that “he is hurting me at all” rather than his specific percentage usage, as neither AFO or Shigaraki know about the percentages.

So to Shigaraki at this point, all he knows is that Deku sent him flying with one kick and a glowing leg, so he has no reason to believe he didn’t use 100% on that leg. Especially since Deku didn’t have his hair glowing (a la Full Cowl 100%) when he gave Shigaraki his beatdown in the All Out War. His appearance there and when he enters the fight here isn’t different enough for Shigaraki to assume anything crazy.

And let’s not even mention that Deku’s appearance in the story is never talked about when it comes to wielding One For All and is likely purely for the audience to know how strong he is.
 
So. Is there anything else to mention.

Because once again, no contradictions or arguments against both the multiplier itself and its position in all of our scaling have been found. We have evidence that point to a massive gap instead, and the method through we which we get the multiplier is the most simple and accurate method given the information presented.

So as far as I can tell, it is essentially unopposed, and the people that have so far disagreed are doing so out of not liking it rather than genuine, better alternatives being possible or because of any contradictions that arise from it.
 
Kingofwolves999 said:
Arguments:

Per-Punch Absorption

The claim that Nomu’s absorption works off a “set defense stat” has been addressed as follows.

The logic of a set defense stat falls apart when actual number are put to it in any way. Using Qaws example, 99 vs 100 and 159 gives a 1.6x difference, but a 699 vs 700 and 759 gives a 1.085x difference.

This makes the actual grounds of the argument shaky, but what really creates mass assumptions and out of the box reasoning is that All Might would had to have done this math in the first place. Despite Kirishima’s statement about the regeneration and how All Might defeated it, it’s simply a wild assumption to believe that All Might could pinpoint how much damage he was doing vs how much was absorbed, so accurately that he could tell how many hits his Prime would take, in a manner that requires him to do that for EVERY PUNCH.

This explanation for the occurrence simply requires far too many assumptions to be comfortably usable. This argument from TheRustyOne sums it up quite well.

All Might sends Nomu flying with over 300 punches. He then says that in his heyday, he'd be able to perform the same feat with only 5 punches.

The argument here is simple, what does All Might statement actually mean? What is the simplest explanation? Occam's Razor and all that.

Nomu's Shock Absorption here is honestly irrelevant to me, since I find the idea that All Might is calculating Nomu's Quirk as he's punching him to be absurd. All Might is just going by what he remembers his strength was and where his strength is now as he's punching Nomu.

All Might knows how strong he was back in his prime, he knows how strong he is currently, and he knows how many punches it took to blow away Nomu. His statement isn't about Nomu's Shock Absorption working in a highly specific way. It's him finally realizing just how much weaker he's gotten from his heyday.

All Might was unaware of this until now because he's never fought anyone who was able to push him to his 100% ever since he fought AFO. He knew he was getting weaker, but he just didn't realize how much weaker he had gotten.

We don't know what Horikoshi was planning with this statement, we have to interpret the meaning of it to the best of our abilities. Death of the Author and all that. But I do find the idea that All Might can somehow calculate such a thing to be absurd.

Statements

The statements given by every character so far do not create any sort of contradiction to the 60x multiplier.

Many statements for All Might’s power or characters “as strong as All Might” or “not as strong as All Might” revolve around varying perceptions of the character, with the most important perceptions of that power only able to come from All Might himself and Shigaraki in the final war, as he is the most explicit about the state of All Might he refers to.

Other than All Might and Shigaraki (and I suppose Hawks data book statement), most other statements are incredibly vague about what version of All Might they are referring to, bouncing back and forth with no clear indication if the person talking is referring to his Prime or not, or even if they’re a credible source given All Might has been trying to keep his power under wraps.

Feats

No feats disprove a 60x multiplier, which is at times more important than any statement. The gap presented between All Might and everyone else, through a feats only perspective, can come from Complete Shigaraki, who tanks, mocks and one shots everyone that comes before him. He is the only character shown to be so otherworldly powerful compared to the other characters that they can’t even scratch his skin or damage him in any meaningful way, to the point that even a character like Mirko who can tear chunks out of the supposedly deadly High Ends is nothing to him.

Conclusion

There is so far no alternative, simpler answer to the All Might vs Nomu statement that results in something contradictory to the 60x multiplier being valid.

There are no statements that can be used to claim Prime All Might isn’t 60x stronger than everyone else, and when searching for statements SPECIFIC to Prime All Might, they all come back to a character that can tank, one shot and slap around every other character in the verse.

The feats for characters on Prime AM’s level only exacerbate the clear jump in power he has over them. His level of power is such that characters cannot even scratch his skin with their attacks, that even when they combine their attacks into a massive cannon, they are mocked that they thought it would even work. No character was meant to even fight a Prime All Might level character, as that job was meant to be left to, you guessed it, a different Prime All Might level character.

So the only logic I can garner from all this is that the 60x is valid until a simpler, not assumption heavy alternative is presented, and that this multiplier is not contradicted in anyway by the manga through either statements or feats.
Click to expand...
Reposting since this is largely unchallenged and the most accurate summation of the thread at this point.
 
Kingofwolves999 said:
So. Is there anything else to mention.

Because once again, no contradictions or arguments against both the multiplier itself and its position in all of our scaling have been found. We have evidence that point to a massive gap instead, and the method through we which we get the multiplier is the most simple and accurate method given the information presented.

So as far as I can tell, it is essentially unopposed, and the people that have so far disagreed are doing so out of not liking it rather than genuine, better alternatives being possible or because of any contradictions that arise from it.
Click to expand...
I think the people that have voted they don't agree need to tell us why now.
 
Kingofwolves999 said:
But the only way for any of this to work is for All Might to see the damage he is dealing.

How is he able to tell how much damage he’s dealing past the shock absorption? How is he keeping track of the damage the Nomu is taking when it shows no visible injury? How is he gauging the amount of power absorbed to what goes through? He doesn’t even realize the Nomu has shock absorption until he is told, so when he punches it, to him it feels like punching anything else he’s hit, it’s just that Nomu doesn’t react.

So yeah, the questions posed by the Per-Punch argument just seem to stack up on top of needing All Might to keep track of the damage he’s dealing in such a specific way as opposed to him counting his punches and, when Nomu is defeated, realizing how weak he is comparatively.

The argument for 1.6x or any multiplier like that just seems to need far too many variables and raises too many questions. Sure, it IS another option, but it is nowhere near as logical or simple as the other option, so it shouldn’t be used.
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KoWs has been doing such a good job carrying this thread it’s crazy. But for some odd reason opposition keeps asserting this belief that shock absorption has a limit to how much it absorbs at a time, which is really, really baseless.

Shock vs Negation
I truly don’t understand why this part is so difficult to understand, it’s made clear by All Might and Tomura at the start of the fight.

It’s even further elaborated to be absorption and not NEGATION.

Absorption is the act of taking in or soaking in some form of energy.
This energy is the shock/impacts of All Might’s punches.
He’s absorbing his attacks and holding them in.
As stated in the same scan, since it’s quirk is the act of taking his attacks and soaking it in, there must be a limit. A limit to how much it can absorb. Take note, on paper absorbing and negating are the SAME thing. One is him absorbing it and holding it in so he takes no damage, and the other is simply negating his attacks so they do no damage, but All Might states since it’s not the latter it MUST have a limit.
The opposing interpretation doesn’t hold up due to this belief, the belief being since he’s holding the energy in he’s got to have a limit to. That being how much he can hold. If it was simply a limit to how much of an attack he could absorb at a time, then this comparison wouldn’t have been pointed out as this is a limitation of either definitions, but its made due to the nature of absorption.
Just saying it again so it’s clear, the limit is referring to how much he can soak in and take, thats made clear, it’s hard to interpret it otherwise.
Even the argument of absorbing some and leaving out the rest makes no sense, this implies negation. Negation would be him negating some energy without being able to negate the rest. With absorption he’s taking the energy and holding it in. There’s no “limit” to how much he can absorb at a time as long as it doesn’t fill that bar up at a single time. If any energy gets through from a single punch, then that bar must be filled and the absorption would already be overcame. But we know that wasn’t and isn’t the case, so this argument is just untrue.
Repeating it again so there’s no confusion.
Taking some and leaving out the rest= some form of negation. Absorbing means to take in energy until a certain point (that point being until it is filled up), it’s absorbing any and all shock until it can’t no more, if it’s taking some and leaving the rest that depicts that it’s bar has already been overfilled which contradicts the entire fight. All Might in his plus ultra state has enough power to one shot the Nomu, at this point a single punch after the first would one shot the Nomu. That’s factual. But this isn’t shown or depicted, it’s just untrue.
 
TimmyTurnero said:
KoWs has been doing such a good job carrying this thread it’s crazy. But for some odd reason opposition keeps asserting this belief that shock absorption has a limit to how much it absorbs at a time, which is really, really baseless.

Shock vs Negation
I truly don’t understand why this part is so difficult to understand, it’s made clear by All Might and Tomura at the start of the fight.

It’s even further elaborated to be absorption and not NEGATION.

Absorption is the act of taking in or soaking in some form of energy.
This energy is the shock/impacts of All Might’s punches.
He’s absorbing his attacks and holding them in.
As stated in the same scan, since it’s quirk is the act of taking his attacks and soaking it in, there must be a limit. A limit to how much it can absorb. Take note, on paper absorbing and negating are the SAME thing. One is him absorbing it and holding it in so he takes no damage, and the other is simply negating his attacks so they do no damage, but All Might states since it’s not the latter it MUST have a limit.
The opposing interpretation doesn’t hold up due to this belief, the belief being since he’s holding the energy in he’s got to have a limit to. That being how much he can hold. If it was simply a limit to how much of an attack he could absorb at a time, then this comparison wouldn’t have been pointed out as this is a limitation of either definitions, but its made due to the nature of absorption.
Just saying it again so it’s clear, the limit is referring to how much he can soak in and take, thats made clear, it’s hard to interpret it otherwise.
Even the argument of absorbing some and leaving out the rest makes no sense, this implies negation. Negation would be him negating some energy without being able to negate the rest. With absorption he’s taking the energy and holding it in. There’s no “limit” to how much he can absorb at a time as long as it doesn’t fill that bar up at a single time. If any energy gets through from a single punch, then that bar must be filled and the absorption would already be overcame. But we know that wasn’t and isn’t the case, so this argument is just untrue.
Repeating it again so there’s no confusion.
Taking some and leaving out the rest= some form of negation. Absorbing means to take in energy until a certain point (that point being until it is filled up), it’s absorbing any and all shock until it can’t no more, if it’s taking some and leaving the rest that depicts that it’s bar has already been overfilled which contradicts the entire fight. All Might in his plus ultra state has enough power to one shot the Nomu, at this point a single punch after the first would one shot the Nomu. That’s factual. But this isn’t shown or depicted, it’s just untrue.
Click to expand...

This alone should be more than enough for the opposition to explain how Nomu's shock absorption works without making several more needless assumptions that are arguably valid (not even sound) at best.
 
TimmyTurnero said:
If that doesn’t help then I have no hope left.
Anyways, the only people that scale is Deku (current), Shigaraki (current) and Bakugo (downscale possibly?)
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Deku, Shigaraki, Prime All Might, Prime AFO, maybe super darkness Light of Baldur Tokoyami.

Basically only the characters that would one tap and obliterate everyone else in the verse.

Second Awakening Bakugo needs more feats when he gets back up to even have a profile let alone scale to anyone.
 
TimmyTurnero said:
If that doesn’t help then I have no hope left.
Anyways, the only people that scale is Deku (current), Shigaraki (current) and Bakugo (downscale possibly?)
Click to expand...
Hopefully it does, I went back through the thread and again I am not seeing the other side clearly explain why exactly the proposed ideas are unsound or why Nomu's quirk works a certain way. But if not I am sure there are other staff who have voting power.
 
Kingofwolves999 said:
Hawks Sword does not scale to Prime AFO, he only stabbed him after he de-aged out of his Prime. Hawks feathers couldn’t even pierce Hood, he is not that strong.

The de-aged AFO that Armored All Might fights would similarly not be as durable.
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We have no reason to believe his durability somehow suddenly dropped but his speed, ap and quirk control got better. All that means is that hawks feathers have gotten stronger in between fighting hood and afo. Which makes sense because they were burned off completely and then regrew. Only thing we can say for certain is that hawks sword pierced afos shoulder, so it scales to him.
 
Off topic but I pray we get a Gear shift multiplier, it took 5 smashes from Overdrive to fill up Fuax, it has 4 gears, all of them being fast enough to blitz the last, so there’s no way overdrive isn’t at least 5x stronger than normal Deku. But Deku’s smash that blew a hole through tomura would be 300x weakened All Might.
 
TimmyTurnero said:
Off topic but I pray we get a Gear shift multiplier, it took 5 smashes from Overdrive to fill up Fuax, it has 4 gears, all of them being fast enough to blitz the last, so there’s no way overdrive isn’t at least 5x stronger than normal Deku. But Deku’s smash that blew a hole through tomura would be 300x weakened All Might.
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We have a 5× multiplier for the quintiple smash
 
ShigarakiShimura said:
We have no reason to believe his durability suddenly dropped but his speed and ap and quirk control got better. All that means is that hawks feathers have gotten stronger in between fighting hood and afo. Which makes sense because they were burned off completely and then regrew. Only thing we can say for certain is that hawks sword perceived afos shoulder, so it scales to him.
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Because your argument for his durability being as high as Prime’s durability at all is his age. If he gets younger than his Prime, his durability should drop unless you think he never got more durable.

His feathers are actually weaker than ever because they got burned off, his Quirk Factor is severely handicapped and damaged. The same feather blade he’s using couldn’t even crack AFO’s mask, and I highly doubt his mask would be even more durable than Prime All Might.

The same AFO that Hawks stabs was turned into a pile of broken, half melted torso that even Mount Lady was injuring with Detnerat weapons.
 
TimmyTurnero said:
Off topic but I pray we get a Gear shift multiplier, it took 5 smashes from Overdrive to fill up Fuax, it has 4 gears, all of them being fast enough to blitz the last, so there’s no way overdrive isn’t at least 5x stronger than normal Deku. But Deku’s smash that blew a hole through tomura would be 300x weakened All Might.
Click to expand...
Stay on topic, do not bring up more multipliers or anything else please. The only thing that matters is the OP and the conclusions we are coming to for scaling.
 
Kingofwolves999 said:
Because your argument for his durability being as high as Prime’s durability at all is his age. If he gets younger than his Prime, his durability should drop unless you think he never got more durable.

His feathers are actually weaker than ever because they got burned off, his Quirk Factor is severely handicapped and damaged. The same feather blade he’s using couldn’t even crack AFO’s mask, and I highly doubt his mask would be even more durable than Prime All Might.

The same AFO that Hawks stabs was turned into a pile of broken, half melted torso that even Mount Lady was injuring with Detnerat weapons.
Click to expand...
The technology in mha has been shown to be able to handle this level of strength so we shouldn't be suprised by the weapons harming afo or his mask being that durable. I mean allmight used to have support items that could presumably handle him. And deku has currently support items around his wrist that are just fine after a 120% quintiple smash from a deku that's far stronger than prime allmight.

But again, when story wise the younger afo gets the stronger he is we have no reason to think his durability just dropped out of nowhere and only his durability. Are you trying to say afo can oneshot himself? You know how Damage was saying that the nomus had way higher ap than their durability, you're doing that. You're saying that AFO's durability is now high end nomu level but his ap is prime allmight level. How does that work.
 
ShigarakiShimura said:
The technology in mha has been shown to br able to handle this level of strength so we shouldn't be suprised by the weapons harming afo or his mask being that durable. I mean allmight used to have support items that could presumably handle him. And deku has currently support items around his wrist that are just fine after a 120% quintiple smash from a deku that's far stronger than prime allmight.

But again, when story wise the younger afo gets the stronger he is we have no reason to think his durability just dropped out of nowhere and only his durability. Are you trying to say afo can oneshot himself? You know how Damage was saying that the nomus had way higher ap than their durability, you're doing that. You're saying that AFO's durability is now high end nomu level but his ap is prime allmight level. How does that work.
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That tech is made by Melissa/Hatsume who are consistently capable of producing items wildly more durable than other items, such as the Iron Soles. They have a precedent for being ridiculously tough.

Prime AFO, with none of his Prime Quirks so his AP is still equal to his Kamino self, broke Hawk’s blade just by running into it with a forcefield up. He then gets younger, and thus stronger with his Quirks, due to Shigaraki’s hatred.

AFO literally CAN one shot himself, he shows that several times with his Quirks. His leeching of Shigaraki’s hatred lets him draw out more power from his Quirks, like the light beam, which nukes his arm off and should kill him but doesn’t because he’s re-winding. He is literally strong enough to one shot himself without the durability.

That is only with his Quirks. His physical strength/striking strength is completely unknown, as we don’t even know how he fought All Might in their Prime, just that he knew Prime All Might was so much stronger than him that he planned for his own death.

Tokoyami straight up says that Hawks lacks the power to kill Masked AFO before using Ragnarok to break the rest of the Mask.
 
Kingofwolves999 said:
So. Is there anything else to mention.

Because once again, no contradictions or arguments against both the multiplier itself and its position in all of our scaling have been found. We have evidence that point to a massive gap instead, and the method through we which we get the multiplier is the most simple and accurate method given the information presented.

So as far as I can tell, it is essentially unopposed, and the people that have so far disagreed are doing so out of not liking it rather than genuine, better alternatives being possible or because of any contradictions that arise from it.
Click to expand...
Kingofwolves999 said:
Arguments:

Per-Punch Absorption

The claim that Nomu’s absorption works off a “set defense stat” has been addressed as follows.

The logic if a set defense stat falls apart when actual number are put to it in any way. Using Qaws example, 99 vs 100 and 159 gives a 1.6x difference, but a 699 vs 700 and 759 gives a 1.085x difference.

This makes the actual grounds of the argument shaky, but what really creates mass assumptions and out of the box reasoning is that All Might would had to have done this math in the first place. Despite Kirishima’s statement about the regeneration and how All Might defeated it, it’s simply a wild assumption to believe that All Might could pinpoint how much damage he was doing vs how much was absorbed, so accurately that he could tell how many hits his Prime would take, in a manner that requires him to do that for EVERY PUNCH.

This explanation for the occurrence simply requires far too many assumptions to be comfortably usable. This argument from TheRustyOne sums it up quite well.

All Might sends Nomu flying with over 300 punches. He then says that in his heyday, he'd be able to perform the same feat with only 5 punches.

The argument here is simple, what does All Might statement actually mean? What is the simplest explanation? Occam's Razor and all that.

Nomu's Shock Absorption here is honestly irrelevant to me, since I find the idea that All Might is calculating Nomu's Quirk as he's punching him to be absurd. All Might is just going by what he remembers his strength was and where his strength is now as he's punching Nomu.

All Might knows how strong he was back in his prime, he knows how strong he is currently, and he knows how many punches it took to blow away Nomu. His statement isn't about Nomu's Shock Absorption working in a highly specific way. It's him finally realizing just how much weaker he's gotten from his heyday.

All Might was unaware of this until now because he's never fought anyone who was able to push him to his 100% ever since he fought AFO. He knew he was getting weaker, but he just didn't realize how much weaker he had gotten.

We don't know what Horikoshi was planning with this statement, we have to interpret the meaning of it to the best of our abilities. Death of the Author and all that. But I do find the idea that All Might can somehow calculate such a thing to be absurd.

Statements

The statements given by every character so far do not create any sort of contradiction to the 60x multiplier.

Many statements for All Might’s power or characters “as strong as All Might” or “not as strong as All Might” revolve around varying perceptions of the character, with the most important perceptions of that power only able to come from All Might himself and Shigaraki in the final war, as he is the most explicit about the state of All Might he refers to.

Other than All Might and Shigaraki (and I suppose Hawks data book statement), most other statements are incredibly vague about what version of All Might they are referring to, bouncing back and forth with no clear indication if the person talking is referring to his Prime or not, or even if they’re a credible source given All Might has been trying to keep his power under wraps.

Feats

No feats disprove a 60x multiplier, which is at times more important than any statement. The gap presented between All Might and everyone else, through a feats only perspective, can come from Complete Shigaraki, who tanks, mocks and one shots everyone that comes before him. He is the only character shown to be so otherworldly powerful compared to the other characters that they can’t even scratch his skin or damage him in any meaningful way, to the point that even a character like Mirko who can tear chunks out of the supposedly deadly High Ends is nothing to him.

Conclusion

There is so far no alternative, simpler answer to the All Might vs Nomu statement that results in something contradictory to the 60x multiplier being valid.

There are no statements that can be used to claim Prime All Might isn’t 60x stronger than everyone else, and when searching for statements SPECIFIC to Prime All Might, they all come back to a character that can tank, one shot and slap around every other character in the verse.

The feats for characters on Prime AM’s level only exacerbate the clear jump in power he has over them. His level of power is such that characters cannot even scratch his skin with their attacks, that even when they combine their attacks into a massive cannon, they are mocked that they thought it would even work. No character was meant to even fight a Prime All Might level character, as that job was meant to be left to, you guessed it, a different Prime All Might level character.

So the only logic I can garner from all this is that the 60x is valid until a simpler, not assumption heavy alternative is presented, and that it is not contradicted in anyway by the manga( through either statements or feats.
Click to expand...
TimmyTurnero said:
KoWs has been doing such a good job carrying this thread it’s crazy. But for some odd reason opposition keeps asserting this belief that shock absorption has a limit to how much it absorbs at a time, which is really, really baseless.

Shock vs Negation
I truly don’t understand why this part is so difficult to understand, it’s made clear by All Might and Tomura at the start of the fight.

It’s even further elaborated to be absorption and not NEGATION.

Absorption is the act of taking in or soaking in some form of energy.
This energy is the shock/impacts of All Might’s punches.
He’s absorbing his attacks and holding them in.
As stated in the same scan, since it’s quirk is the act of taking his attacks and soaking it in, there must be a limit. A limit to how much it can absorb. Take note, on paper absorbing and negating are the SAME thing. One is him absorbing it and holding it in so he takes no damage, and the other is simply negating his attacks so they do no damage, but All Might states since it’s not the latter it MUST have a limit.
The opposing interpretation doesn’t hold up due to this belief, the belief being since he’s holding the energy in he’s got to have a limit to. That being how much he can hold. If it was simply a limit to how much of an attack he could absorb at a time, then this comparison wouldn’t have been pointed out as this is a limitation of either definitions, but its made due to the nature of absorption.
Just saying it again so it’s clear, the limit is referring to how much he can soak in and take, thats made clear, it’s hard to interpret it otherwise.
Even the argument of absorbing some and leaving out the rest makes no sense, this implies negation. Negation would be him negating some energy without being able to negate the rest. With absorption he’s taking the energy and holding it in. There’s no “limit” to how much he can absorb at a time as long as it doesn’t fill that bar up at a single time. If any energy gets through from a single punch, then that bar must be filled and the absorption would already be overcame. But we know that wasn’t and isn’t the case, so this argument is just untrue.
Repeating it again so there’s no confusion.
Taking some and leaving out the rest= some form of negation. Absorbing means to take in energy until a certain point (that point being until it is filled up), it’s absorbing any and all shock until it can’t no more, if it’s taking some and leaving the rest that depicts that it’s bar has already been overfilled which contradicts the entire fight. All Might in his plus ultra state has enough power to one shot the Nomu, at this point a single punch after the first would one shot the Nomu. That’s factual. But this isn’t shown or depicted, it’s just untrue.
Click to expand...

To any joining, these are the arguments and presentations for the feats and statements. Nothing contradicts the 60x multiplier, and no given explanation is more accurate, simple or consistent with character intelligence in a way that is better than our currently agreed upon method (Total Energy Absorption).

As such I’m open to begin counting votes from mods based on the evidence and arguments provided, especially since those in opposition to the multiplier and its logic have no running stance.
 
I’d say we’re smart enough to go with a “300 punches now is 60 times the 5 estimated punches he’d need in his prime”
it’s been NINE years since we first got the direct statement from the CHARACTER HIMSELF.

this isn’t like Deku’s percentages could be considered not actual linear percentages because Hori has stated things like “1 million percent was to hype himself up”, this is from All Might (the OFA holder who’s held it for what 40 years?) and knows more about the quirk then anyone else in the series (at this point) outside of the sentient vestiges inside of the quirk itself

God this is making my frustrations with other Shonen verse multipliers flair up
 
Damage3245 said:
Ah, my bad, I forgot that Izuku wasn't in 100%.

So, if say Izuku was using 45% there, then All For One's monologue of "Has he gotten stronger?!" could be referring to the difference between 45% Izuku in the PLW arc and this Fa Jin-enhanced 45% Izuku who hit All For One/Shigaraki. With the explanation being that he had gotten stronger with the use of Fa Jin.
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Yo Damage can you tag mods to come and vote
 
Kingofwolves999 said:
Agree with 60x Multiplier validity (Nomu Absorption has total damage limit): 16 (ShigarakiShimura, DemonGodMitchAubin, TimmyTurnero, XSOULOFCINDERX, DaReaperMan, StorytellingDemonKing, Eseseso, Bruh, Mapl3Sy4up, Stryker861, Ayewale, Serlock_Holmes, Spinoirr, Grand_Astartes, BasedNecoScaler69, TheGodOfICE777, )

Disagree with 60x multiplier (Nomu Absorption has per-punch limit): 4 (Damage3245, Qawsedf234, Metalballrun, Therefir, )

Neutral: CloverDragon03, TheRustyOne,

Agree with graph usage: Maitreya, Maverick_Zero_X, Spinoirr, Qawsedf234,

Disagree with graph Multiplier usage: Therefir,

Neutral: TheRustyOne,
Click to expand...
I agree with all
 
Kingofwolves999 said:
Arguments:

Per-Punch Absorption

The claim that Nomu’s absorption works off a “set defense stat” has been addressed as follows.

The logic if a set defense stat falls apart when actual number are put to it in any way. Using Qaws example, 99 vs 100 and 159 gives a 1.6x difference, but a 699 vs 700 and 759 gives a 1.085x difference.

This makes the actual grounds of the argument shaky, but what really creates mass assumptions and out of the box reasoning is that All Might would had to have done this math in the first place. Despite Kirishima’s statement about the regeneration and how All Might defeated it, it’s simply a wild assumption to believe that All Might could pinpoint how much damage he was doing vs how much was absorbed, so accurately that he could tell how many hits his Prime would take, in a manner that requires him to do that for EVERY PUNCH.

This explanation for the occurrence simply requires far too many assumptions to be comfortably usable. This argument from TheRustyOne sums it up quite well.

All Might sends Nomu flying with over 300 punches. He then says that in his heyday, he'd be able to perform the same feat with only 5 punches.

The argument here is simple, what does All Might statement actually mean? What is the simplest explanation? Occam's Razor and all that.

Nomu's Shock Absorption here is honestly irrelevant to me, since I find the idea that All Might is calculating Nomu's Quirk as he's punching him to be absurd. All Might is just going by what he remembers his strength was and where his strength is now as he's punching Nomu.

All Might knows how strong he was back in his prime, he knows how strong he is currently, and he knows how many punches it took to blow away Nomu. His statement isn't about Nomu's Shock Absorption working in a highly specific way. It's him finally realizing just how much weaker he's gotten from his heyday.

All Might was unaware of this until now because he's never fought anyone who was able to push him to his 100% ever since he fought AFO. He knew he was getting weaker, but he just didn't realize how much weaker he had gotten.

We don't know what Horikoshi was planning with this statement, we have to interpret the meaning of it to the best of our abilities. Death of the Author and all that. But I do find the idea that All Might can somehow calculate such a thing to be absurd.

Statements

The statements given by every character so far do not create any sort of contradiction to the 60x multiplier.

Many statements for All Might’s power or characters “as strong as All Might” or “not as strong as All Might” revolve around varying perceptions of the character, with the most important perceptions of that power only able to come from All Might himself and Shigaraki in the final war, as he is the most explicit about the state of All Might he refers to.

Other than All Might and Shigaraki (and I suppose Hawks data book statement), most other statements are incredibly vague about what version of All Might they are referring to, bouncing back and forth with no clear indication if the person talking is referring to his Prime or not, or even if they’re a credible source given All Might has been trying to keep his power under wraps.

Feats

No feats disprove a 60x multiplier, which is at times more important than any statement. The gap presented between All Might and everyone else, through a feats only perspective, can come from Complete Shigaraki, who tanks, mocks and one shots everyone that comes before him. He is the only character shown to be so otherworldly powerful compared to the other characters that they can’t even scratch his skin or damage him in any meaningful way, to the point that even a character like Mirko who can tear chunks out of the supposedly deadly High Ends is nothing to him.

Conclusion

There is so far no alternative, simpler answer to the All Might vs Nomu statement that results in something contradictory to the 60x multiplier being valid.

There are no statements that can be used to claim Prime All Might isn’t 60x stronger than everyone else, and when searching for statements SPECIFIC to Prime All Might, they all come back to a character that can tank, one shot and slap around every other character in the verse.

The feats for characters on Prime AM’s level only exacerbate the clear jump in power he has over them. His level of power is such that characters cannot even scratch his skin with their attacks, that even when they combine their attacks into a massive cannon, they are mocked that they thought it would even work. No character was meant to even fight a Prime All Might level character, as that job was meant to be left to, you guessed it, a different Prime All Might level character.

So the only logic I can garner from all this is that the 60x is valid until a simpler, not assumption heavy alternative is presented, and that it is not contradicted in anyway by the manga( through either statements or feats.
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Agree with the 60x multiplier then.
 
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