Pretty Cure/Precure Discussion Thread: Max Heart

[Dino_Ranger_Black]

@SSK We are going to have to change the speed stat then.

@TGOP Because the Cure that debutted earlier have consistently shown to be on par or superior to the later Cures, due to experience and growth. Maho Cures generally had a harder time fighting in comparison to the Princess Cures in Dream Stars and that other All Stars movie (Can't remember but they sing alot in it too.) In the latter film, Happy, Melody, Blossom, and Peach all fought their respective opponents better than Miracle did until the "believe in myself" scene. That's why they scale.

The first fight with Miden was largely inconclusive. All we know is that Luminous took the hit for Black and White. And fighting along side a powerful character doesn't always make said supporting characer on par eg. Sakura Haruno from Naruto.

That being said, I did recall Fusion returning in New Stage, so I will watch and review the DX and New Stage movies. If there's suffice evidence to support the successor being comparable to a certian degree, we may need to revise these pages. Otherwise, all the Cures remain the same. I have work and other things in RL, so I can't watch these movies in one sitting. It's going to take a while. I'll skip the Carnival since, let's be honest, there's nothing we can use from there.

 

[The_King_of_Prudence]

Yell's kick seemed to do about as much to Miden as the Max Heart Cures' attacks. Right before he hit Luminous with his memory absorption, he threw Black and White into the ground, which seemed to cause them pain. Take your time with watching them, I know that I'm being slightly bothersome. Older Cures do tend to be stronger, but the younger cures would still be at least as strong as the older Cures were at the end of their series.

 

[The_King_of_Prudence]

Rewatching season 1, Pissard is comparable to a train in terms of speed.

 

[SuperSaiyanKieran]

Back from Anime North. Good time but didn't buy anything. So I used that money to buy the 8 guides for Futari wa and Max Heart that I know about (and I was still under budget). Should arrive between the beginning of June and the end of July.

 

[The_King_of_Prudence]

Does anyone remember the episode/movie that featured penrose steps? I seem to remember them being in Smile, or something. In Futari Wa, Gekidrago mentions that it's "hard to walk" in the garden of rainbows, implying that the gravity is stronger in the garden of rainbows than it is in the Dark Zone, a fitting contrast to the garden of light's implied high gravity.

 

[The_King_of_Prudence]

Futari wa episode 10 has gems attacking the Precure's enemy, should that be on their profile?

 

[SuperSaiyanKieran]

Seeing the scene, I guess what is happening is that the gems are using the light projected on them from the Marble Screw, and then that reflected light becomes focused beams and also attacks the enemy while the Cures are still attack attacking with the Marble Screw.

I don't know what we would call that ability, but I guess if the Cures use the Marble Screw (or Max or Sparkle or Extreme Luminario) with gems or crystals nearby, then they get an additional attack (are an enhanced attack depending on how you look on it)

 

[SuperSaiyanKieran]

In Yes 5 GoGo, Shibiretta creates her own worlds based on fairy tails. In the first world, you can stars. Would this count towards AP?

 

[The_King_of_Prudence]

If she can create universes, wouldn't that be 2-C? If it scales to attack potency, that is.

 

[The_King_of_Prudence]

In episode 12, Honoka's grandmother displays mind manipulation with Mipple, should Cure White scale?

 

[SuperSaiyanKieran]

Not sure, it was thanks to Mipple that Honoka's grandmother made the mind controlled people passive (though still possessed).

Maybe it could be seen as the part Mipple contributes to Rainbow Therapy?

 

[Dino_Ranger_Black]

So, I watched the DX Trilogy and the two first New Stages movies. So far, I'm still against the fact we should scale the Suite Cures to Black and White just for the sole fact they beaten Freeze and Frozen. It's such a brief and short moment that can easily be turned down. HOWEVER, we can use the feat to support the upgrade to a proper feat in the All Stars movies: The fact they fought Fusion and Shadow. These feats has much more solid proof because not only the previous antagonist have been fought several times and survived from the final atttack in DX3, making it consistent on his part, it's a PROPER way to display how much stronger the Cures have gotten and a proper way to show that newer Cures are also formidable.

As seen from the intro in New Stage 1, all the Cures that fought him in DX1 are more formidable this time around and the Suite Cures, who struggled in DX3, have now gotten considerably strong enough to keep up. In fact, when facing Fusion after he survived (again) , the Suite Cures were each holding their own. Since Happy defeated apart of him herself and the Smile Cures all fought him several times throughout the movie (albiet with much more difficulty in comparison to the Suite Cures in the docks), they also would scale.

Most of what I said about the Suite and Smile Cures in New Stage 1, also applies to the latter Cures and Doki Cures in New Stage 2. Shadow defeated all of the Cures with the exception of the Doki Cures but this is largely due to the fact the book he's using, which contains the Precure lore(Yeah, that's a thing now), has no information on them, being the latest new Cures and all. Despite this convenience, the DokiDoki Cures could still barely hold him off. However, as soon as the other Cures were saved, Cure Happy defeated one of the many Shadow's with a single punch. This battle with Shadow can be used to support the other Cures, as well as, the DokiDoki Cures.

I still haven't seen New Stage 3 but so far, we can scale the other Cures (Only from Dokidoki and down) to Black and White based on their mutiple confrontation with Fusion and Shadow, with Freeze and Frozen being used to support the Suite Cures. I will watch New Stage 3 later for anything else but it doesn't look like other Cures afterwards will scale. We are just gonna hope for the Star Twinkle Cures to get better feats.

 

[The_King_of_Prudence]

I think that, by "proper scaling," you mean "consistent scaling." Wanting that is understandable, though. Should I start editing?

 

[SuperSaiyanKieran]

So a lot of Cures scale from All Stars, nice. But what do we say in their own respective series. DX 2 takes place early in Heartcatch, so would we say they are possibly universal by scaling to Black/White/Bloom/Egret, or to planet level based on the solo movie?

We already know All Stars is canon, so it seems a bit weird to have a post all star key meant to take place after their own series when for some it is early on.

 

[Dino_Ranger_Black]

@TGOP Let me make a profile for Fusion and Shadow first. Then we can update their profiles.

@SSK We can workout those details later. For now, it's best to created stats based on their respective seasons and then All Stars afterward, rather than overall.

 

[The_King_of_Prudence]

Can you re-evaluate 3-A Splash Star (there's some new evidence since your post), so that we don't have to edit 30 profiles twice.

 

[SuperSaiyanKieran]

Possible Speed upgrade for Yes 5 GoGo!!

In ep 30 Shibiretta doesn't create a new world, instead she brings the Cures to the Moon to recreate Princess Kaguya. The Ball of green light that brought the Cures to the Moon reached it in about 7 seconds, making it move at 54,914,285.7143 m/s (Relativistic).

Also: THE CURES CAN BREATH IN SPACE WITHOUT TRANSFORMING!!!!!

 

[The_King_of_Prudence]

I don't think that anyone scales to that, especially as there's a cut involved.

Could you calculate Syrup taking Nozomi to the bell tower in episode 1 at 6:54?

 

[SuperSaiyanKieran]

I'd need a frame of reference for how far it is from the school, which I didn't see in that episode and haven't really looked for in the first 30

 

[The_King_of_Prudence]

I seem to recall the school not being visible from the tower, but that could be camera angles.

 

[SuperSaiyanKieran]

Yeah, I would need some aerial shot or a statement in order to find that out. The ep 30 cut didn't bother me as it seemed like it was still happening at the same pace, but I could see why that would make the time questionable. I also questioned if the Cures would scale to it. My thought was it was something to apply to Shibiretta and then the Cures, but yeah it is hard to scale off to someone.

 

[The_King_of_Prudence]

Rainbow Therapy and Healing Prayer Fresh are possession negation.

 

[The_King_of_Prudence]

My updated Precure rankings:

1. Futari wa Pretty Cure Splash Star
2. Yes! Precure 5 GoGo!
3. Yes! Pretty Cure 5
4. Futari wa Pretty Cure
5. Futari wa Pretty Cure Max heart
6. Fresh Precure!
7. Heartcatch Precure!
8. Suite Pretty CureÔÖ¬
9. Smile Precure
10. DokiDoki Pretty Cure
11. Go! Princess Precure
12. Mahotsukai Precure
13. KiraKira Pretty Cure A La Mode
14. Happinesscharge Precure
15. Hugtto! Precure

 

[The_King_of_Prudence]

As it's repeatedly stated that the prism stones will make Dark King Immortal, can that be added to his page?

 

[SuperSaiyanKieran]

Wasn't it just that the Prism stones would stop his own dark powers from killing him?

Also: Looked at the 3 episodes with the Red Heart Seed again to try and get a sense of how much faster it makes them. It is rough, but I found it to be a bit over '4x '8x (Comparing Blossom with it to Marine when she saved Blossom from the Camera flash, the other two episodes don't have as clear a comparrison to the Cures themselves. Tried to use ep 25 but its a bit unclear how far Blossom moved with the red heart seed compared to Cobraja and in how much time which ended up giving me a wonky number of 65, so I think 4 would work.)

Edit: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U...artcatch_Pretty_Cure-Red_Heart_Seed_Multipler

 

[SuperSaiyanKieran]

Only did this rough multiplier since it only applies to speed and that is easier to compare. For other forms I won't try to do headcanon numbers and instead see the guides or actual series have to say.

 

[The_King_of_Prudence]

Rainbow Therapy and Healing Prayer Fresh are possession negation.

Also, Cure Angel have Empathic Manipulation, Information Manipulation, Resistance to Mind Manipulation and Information Analysis.

 

[The_King_of_Prudence]

Wasn't it just that the Prism stones would stop his own dark powers from killing him?

I could have sworn that it was explicitly stated at some point. When was it stated that his dark powers were killing him?

 

[SuperSaiyanKieran]

In episode 2, he states that he needs the power of the prism stones to survive (3:19) and the wiki page on him mentions his power of destruction killing himself.

Pretty sure there are more, but this should prove my point. Immortallity (or eternal life based on the ending) was probably mentioned. Hard to say if the prism stones themselves grant immortality or that he would live forever if not for his own powers.

 

[The_King_of_Prudence]

Don't trust Precure Wiki, check the official site.

 

[SuperSaiyanKieran]

It was just a supporting point with the ep 2 statement being my main evidence.

For a clear statement of his own power slowly killing him see ep 21 (2:57-3:01)

 

[Dino_Ranger_Black]

I made pages for Fusio and Shadow (Pretty Cure). You guys can proceed with the changes for the Cure's All Stars Stats but only from Doki Doki and earlier seasons.

Btw, Shadow is a Non-Corporeal being. He's a literal living shadow, only taking shape after meeting a fairy and possess Intangibility, so all the Cure from Doki Doki and ealier seasons should have Non-Physical Interaction for being able to hit him. Also, I re-watched Hugtto ep 38. You are right, TPOG. All the Cure do get resistance to Time Manipulation. Please make sure to include these abilities while editing.

Edit: I still haven't watched New Stage 3 yet but I'm all tuckered out from RL and trying to marathon the movies. It's going to take me awhile to get back to it.

 

[SuperSaiyanKieran]

oh, thats a neat ability

 

[Dino_Ranger_Black]

@TGOP It's resistance to Time Manipulation, not Time Stop. Please correct the pages. Thank you. Heading to bed now.

 

[The_King_of_Prudence]

When do they display resistance to other forms of Time Manipulation? Cure Ace Doesn't get Non-Physical Interaction, as she's not in the movie.

 

[Dino_Ranger_Black]

Never mind, I'll perform the changes myself. You disorganised the Black and White pages abit. Thanks for you help, though.

 

[The_King_of_Prudence]

I thought that specifying which abilities are from which season would be a good idea. Again, why is it general time manipulation resistance, and not just time stop. The Max Heart Cures should have separate keys for all star, just like everyone else.

Unrelated issue, White's page says "All previous abilities to a greater extent," while Black's says "All base abilities to a greater extent."

 

[Dino_Ranger_Black]

It doesn't need tabbers for that. Those are used for characters with excessive abilities such as Kirby and Mario. Despite having two seasons and appearing mutiple times, niether Black or White's abilities are overwhelmingly cluttered. And the Cures are having their All Stars keys revised because of them. Thus, they don't need them. Please don't undo my revision before a proper discussion and refrain from changing the profiles until further notice, thank you.

Ask for Doctor Traum, in ep 37, once he turned into a monster, he warped the entire space-time of the world, trapping the Pretty Cure within it. The Cures were able to break out of it.

 

[The_King_of_Prudence]

Because Cure Heart has such an immense number of abilities.
And the Cures are having their All Stars keys revised because of them. Thus, they don't need them.
They gain new abilities, and if other Cures need keys for things that they technically gain in their own season, it only makes sense for these Cures to have them as well.
Please don't undo my revision before a proper discussion and refrain from changing the profiles until further notice, thank you.
I'll remember not to do that.

 

[Dino_Ranger_Black]

More than Black and White, at least. Regardless, they don't need them. Especially since they gained only two new abitlities, making it redudant. The profiles are fine the way they are.